clth Posted February 9, 2021 Share Posted February 9, 2021 (edited) (originally posted in programming subforum) It was suppossed to be christmas present but it end up as very late one Vaults of Nhyrmeth Demo featuring: - Cliche fantasy plot - One level with several enemy types - Inventory, stats and automapping system - State save/load anytime - Sounds - 48K Atari with floppy(or emulation) required I tried to balance things but beginning can be bit challenging. However when you get some equipment and increase health with constitution stat, it becomes rather easy soon. Any feedback is always welcome. nhyrdemo.atr Edited February 9, 2021 by clth 31 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tuf Posted February 9, 2021 Share Posted February 9, 2021 This really looks great! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
asommer Posted February 9, 2021 Share Posted February 9, 2021 I agree looks fantastic! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+cjherr Posted February 9, 2021 Share Posted February 9, 2021 Very VERY cool! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
invisible kid Posted February 9, 2021 Share Posted February 9, 2021 That looks awesome! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xxl Posted February 9, 2021 Share Posted February 9, 2021 who made the graphics for the game? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
clth Posted February 9, 2021 Author Share Posted February 9, 2021 26 minutes ago, xxl said: who made the graphics for the game? I drew it myself. Btw big thanks for LZ4 routine and XBIOS, both is used 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xxl Posted February 9, 2021 Share Posted February 9, 2021 double nice ? great graphics, especially with the character mode limitation (128 fonts) 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Goochman Posted February 10, 2021 Share Posted February 10, 2021 Quick run through - very nice looking. Not sure what Im doing wrong but I cant seem to pickup the bags. I press the space bar and nothing happens. I also wasnt able to really fight a spider. Pressing enter didnt seem to do anything. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
clth Posted February 10, 2021 Author Share Posted February 10, 2021 (edited) 9 minutes ago, Goochman said: Quick run through - very nice looking. Not sure what Im doing wrong but I cant seem to pickup the bags. I press the space bar and nothing happens. I also wasnt able to really fight a spider. Pressing enter didnt seem to do anything. I was probably not clear enough about controls in instructions. You need to open character screen with TAB key, select with A/D keys FLOOR section, then in W/S keys item you want and with ENTER key take it. Then switch to INVENTORY section and with ENTER key do something with item (EQUIP, USE, etc). Unarmed fighting is not possible. Edited February 10, 2021 by clth typos 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ilmenit Posted February 10, 2021 Share Posted February 10, 2021 (edited) Great demo! The picking is not very intuitive. The best if hitting spacebar standing on some item could open the floor screen. Still I'd prefer to have the items listed when entering a tile where they are on the ground (like in many Roguelikes e.g DCSS). The initial darkness gives bad first impression about the drawing distance. The best if on the first level it could be full like in Dungeon Master. Edited February 10, 2021 by ilmenit 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
clth Posted February 10, 2021 Author Share Posted February 10, 2021 15 hours ago, ilmenit said: Great demo! The picking is not very intuitive. The best if hitting spacebar standing on some item could open the floor screen. Still I'd prefer to have the items listed when entering a tile where they are on the ground (like in many Roguelikes e.g DCSS). The initial darkness gives bad first impression about the drawing distance. The best if on the first level it could be full like in Dungeon Master. Spacebar unfortunately doesnt make much sense, it doesnt play good with objects when on same spot. Also pressing tab does more or less similar job. Maybe just add text message to console like "You see item_xy, also X next items lies here. Press TAB for more." or so. But yes, item picking is not very intuitive but after realizing how it works, there not many other tricky parts in controls i guess. Initial darkness is bit more like to show off engine possibilities, however in full release it would be probably better to not start game like this. Thanks for feedback! 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ilmenit Posted February 10, 2021 Share Posted February 10, 2021 What often works with user interfaces is to provide functionality how users expect it to work. I'd propose to explore further how to do it with some beta-testers feedback. Would be also worth to think how to minimize number of keys for interactions to simplify the control - maybe it could be even reduced to 1 action key using some priorities like: 1. if there is enemy in front, then you attack it 2. if there is 1 item on the ground then you pick it 3. if there are more items then Floor screen will show 4. if there is no object/enemy to operate, then it will work like TAB I know there is still problem with standing on an item(s) when on front wall there a lever, button or something else to operate. Some console dungeon crawlers in such case were giving contextual option to select what you want to operate (item on the floor or on the wall). Maybe then showing option Floor or Front to select on which you want to operate? Just some ideas to consider. Pleasure of the game can be destroyed by unfriendly user interface (infamous example is https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Corporation_(video_game) ) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
clth Posted February 10, 2021 Author Share Posted February 10, 2021 48 minutes ago, ilmenit said: What often works with user interfaces is to provide functionality how users expect it to work. I'd propose to explore further how to do it with some beta-testers feedback. Would be also worth to think how to minimize number of keys for interactions to simplify the control - maybe it could be even reduced to 1 action key using some priorities like: 1. if there is enemy in front, then you attack it 2. if there is 1 item on the ground then you pick it 3. if there are more items then Floor screen will show 4. if there is no object/enemy to operate, then it will work like TAB I know there is still problem with standing on an item(s) when on front wall there a lever, button or something else to operate. Some console dungeon crawlers in such case were giving contextual option to select what you want to operate (item on the floor or on the wall). Maybe then showing option Floor or Front to select on which you want to operate? Just some ideas to consider. Pleasure of the game can be destroyed by unfriendly user interface (infamous example is https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Corporation_(video_game) ) These are good points but i still do feel uneasy about using one key for all these operations. However when I take in account that this release had zero playtesting by someone other than me, it could've been much worse I wanted to have as little keys used possible and what is it now seems to me as bare minimum. Also having extra menus for elementary operations seem bit too cumbersome. Anyway this possibly weak spot needs to be addressed - by controls change, extensive manual or so. There is one thing I've been thinking about is adding support for gamepad - in this case would be reducing number of used keys quite beneficial and sensible. However it would assume using some non-atari gamepad supporting in more or less standard way two buttons instead of usual one. I've got original sega genesis which seems to work just fine including second button but also there is bit of feel that non-atari(multibutton) controllers are not quite accepted in community. Btw have you been able to finish demo? This actually worried me much more than control related issues 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
_The Doctor__ Posted February 10, 2021 Share Posted February 10, 2021 Just fold the only the parts of suggestions that make sense to you... it's good to keep both ideas yours' and ours' in mind. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eegad Posted February 10, 2021 Share Posted February 10, 2021 Very nice! I haven't gotten very far in it yet, but it is very well done. I have 2 "beta tester" suggestions : - As was previously mentioned, if you walk into/over an item on the floor you should just pick it up automatically. - Make using a standard joystick an option. Stick to move, button to attack. You would still need to use keyboard, but it would be much better to be able to move around with a joystick (in my opinion). 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
clth Posted February 10, 2021 Author Share Posted February 10, 2021 7 minutes ago, eegad said: - As was previously mentioned, if you walk into/over an item on the floor you should just pick it up automatically. That sounds handy first but gets not very useful in longer run. There are items which might not interest you, are used in some floor puzzle, you have limited carry capacity etc. Maybe some quick way to get all items on spot however it is not very likely to happen having more than one item on floor at once. Anything will be probably same/more complex and less handy than current way without extra key. Though is definitely worth adding to ingame view posibility to without further key input see current items on spot so is not necessary to cycle inventory back and forth. 15 minutes ago, eegad said: - Make using a standard joystick an option. Stick to move, button to attack. You would still need to use keyboard, but it would be much better to be able to move around with a joystick (in my opinion). Also worthy to consider, still i have doubts that standard stick joystick will actually usable for this kind of game. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bocianu Posted February 10, 2021 Share Posted February 10, 2021 Thanks for 2 hours of fun Interface could be more intuitive, but game is a pure fun despite this. I'd love to have 'map shortcut key'. Thanks again, and I'm waiting for longer adventure. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
clth Posted February 10, 2021 Author Share Posted February 10, 2021 (edited) 19 minutes ago, bocianu said: Thanks for 2 hours of fun Interface could be more intuitive, but game is a pure fun despite this. I'd love to have 'map shortcut key'. Thanks again, and I'm waiting for longer adventure. You're welcome. Officially, you are probably first person except me to finish game Have you been able to use spells and find some hidden items? (And yes, map shortcut is on list, just forgot to add it) Edited February 10, 2021 by clth typos :) 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bocianu Posted February 10, 2021 Share Posted February 10, 2021 Yes, I was healing myself using healing spell, and life just got easier I've found also blast spell, but had no opportunity to use it. I've found horned helmet, but did not managed to open the chest. I starved to death once. Food is scarce if you are not using it wisely Is this written in assembler, or have you used any higher-level languages? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
clth Posted February 10, 2021 Author Share Posted February 10, 2021 (edited) 9 minutes ago, bocianu said: I've found horned helmet, but did not managed to open the chest. Chest is actually just object to contain items. Finishing the game means you've successfully acquired what was in it 9 minutes ago, bocianu said: Is this written in assembler, or have you used any higher-level languages? Mostly just cc65 and bit of assembler, still lot to improve. Funny fact - python scripts to preprocess data are bigger than game code itself. Edited February 10, 2021 by clth typo again 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bocianu Posted February 10, 2021 Share Posted February 10, 2021 Yup! I've found second thread on programming subforum great job! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheNameOfTheGame Posted February 11, 2021 Share Posted February 11, 2021 Very fun demo. I was able to move around with WASD keys but how do I turn? I was trying Q and E but it didn't seem to do anything. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
clth Posted February 11, 2021 Author Share Posted February 11, 2021 (edited) 9 minutes ago, TheNameOfTheGame said: Very fun demo. I was able to move around with WASD keys but how do I turn? I was trying Q and E but it didn't seem to do anything. WASD is actually just replacement for cursor keys so A and D does turning instead of stepping to the side. Sidestepping is not even implemented, maybe confusion from dark starting area? There is torch on floor nearby of start which will help you see more than one block in front of you. Edited February 11, 2021 by clth typo ... 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheNameOfTheGame Posted February 11, 2021 Share Posted February 11, 2021 1 hour ago, clth said: WASD is actually just replacement for cursor keys so A and D does turning instead of stepping to the side. Sidestepping is not even implemented, maybe confusion from dark starting area? There is torch on floor nearby of start which will help you see more than one block in front of you. Ok, yeah, lol, I was confused on my initial attempt. Now I see that A and D are turning the view. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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