+Bruce-Robert Pocock Posted January 31 Author Share Posted January 31 On 1/27/2023 at 8:47 AM, Philsan said: Please make a PAL60 version (NTSC with colors adjusted). Most European TVs support PAL60. There is a PAL 50Hz version available (as well as SECAM 50Hz) available; is that not commonly supported now? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Albert Posted January 31 Share Posted January 31 Just now, Bruce-Robert Pocock said: There is a PAL 50Hz version available (as well as SECAM 50Hz) available; is that not commonly supported now? I would assume most European TVs support 50Hz PAL, since that is the PAL standard. ..Al 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+Gemintronic Posted January 31 Share Posted January 31 Yeah. NTSC with PAL colors doesn't always work. I had one client that had a tester complain because the PAL60 version of my game had a swath of static on the bottom of his old PAL TV. Better to have plain old PAL when you can. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+Bruce-Robert Pocock Posted January 31 Author Share Posted January 31 I wasn't sure if I'd missed something. Unfortunately the source code is “just’ conditionalized on the TV standard — so there would be quite a bit of work to isolate the bits relevant to the sound or colors vs. the timing. (Incidentally, we're amidst moving house, so I won't likely have time to do much of anything but that for a few weeks.) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+Philsan Posted January 31 Share Posted January 31 49 minutes ago, Bruce-Robert Pocock said: There is a PAL 50Hz version available (as well as SECAM 50Hz) available; is that not commonly supported now? Yes, every PAL TV supports PAL50. Nowadays many developers (for example Champ Games and many others on AtariAge store) use PAL60 because it has the same speed of NTSC and the conversion is easy, only colors need to be adjusted. At the time PAL games (PAL50) where slower than NTSC games and Europeans didn't like it. Therefore today they like PAL60. On the other hand, to maintain NTSC speed, a PAL50 conversion is not easy, code must changed and tests are needed (for example PAL50 version of Circus Convoy has a little bug). But your game's PAL50 speed is OK, therefore in fact there's no need of a PAL60 version. Think about it for your next game! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Albert Posted January 31 Share Posted January 31 1 minute ago, Philsan said: On the other hand, to maintain NTSC speed, a PAL50 conversion is not easy, code must changed and tests are needed (for example PAL50 version of Circus Convoy has a little bug). This is the main reason we don't see a lot of PAL50 releases. ..Al Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thomas Jentzsch Posted January 31 Share Posted January 31 PAL 60 would help reducing flicker. So it still has some advantage, even if a PAL 50 version exists. 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+Bruce-Robert Pocock Posted February 4 Author Share Posted February 4 5 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+Muddyfunster Posted February 4 Share Posted February 4 Congratulations on your nominations! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LatchKeyKid Posted March 22 Share Posted March 22 Indeed, congrats! I was thinking about text in Atari games and your's obviously came to mind, Bruce. How big do you think the game would be without the voice for the 2600? I'm curious what your thoughts are on an ultra simplfied RPG conversation system for the 2600 using the equivalent of modern day emoji's. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+Bruce-Robert Pocock Posted March 23 Author Share Posted March 23 2 hours ago, LatchKeyKid said: Indeed, congrats! I was thinking about text in Atari games and your's obviously came to mind, Bruce. How big do you think the game would be without the voice for the 2600? Let me run some figures and I can tell you about the size precisely, but in general, the speech phonemes I think are similar in size to the visible text. 2 hours ago, LatchKeyKid said: I'm curious what your thoughts are on an ultra simplfied RPG conversation system for the 2600 using the equivalent of modern day emoji's. I did a thing like that once upon a time (Orpheus for PC-DOS), but later saw it done well — in Mass Effect. The player chooses the “attitude” of their response rather than specific text … 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LatchKeyKid Posted March 23 Share Posted March 23 31 minutes ago, Bruce-Robert Pocock said: Let me run some figures and I can tell you about the size precisely, but in general, the speech phonemes I think are similar in size to the visible text. I did a thing like that once upon a time (Orpheus for PC-DOS), but later saw it done well — in Mass Effect. The player chooses the “attitude” of their response rather than specific text … Thanks. I'm curious how much of the 64k filesize was all the text you used. Mass Effect did have something like that in Andromeda I believe but the NPCs still obviously responded to you in full speech. I was actually referring to the NPCs conveying info in emoji-style form and you responding with a simple "yes"/up or "no"/down response. So for example, you come up to an NPC and they have the stereotypical exclamation point above their head so you click to "talk" to them; they respond with a sword icon and an enemy sprite and you respond either up or down on the joystiq. Basically, they're asking you to fight/kill that enemy as a quest and you either accept or decline it. It's obviously MUCH more limited than the full on text you used but I figured I'd ask what you thought. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+Bruce-Robert Pocock Posted March 23 Author Share Posted March 23 2 hours ago, LatchKeyKid said: How big do you think the game would be without the voice for the 2600? It looks like the total data for phonemes runs about 8,120 bytes (give or take a few), and there's a little bit of code that goes with it — the printed text totals around 6,461 or so bytes itself. (The text panels are lightly “compressed” in that each character takes only 6 bits, so there are actually about 8,172 characters plus some control codes like colors and scripting.) Overall, with the scripting engine code (replicated in each bank) there are 6 banks of text and speech data × 4 kiB each — one of which is also used for some end-of-game graphics and such as well. That's a total footprint of about 24kiB for text, speech, and drivers; removing the speech portion would probably remove not only 8,120 bytes of speech, but also compact the number of banks needed for the text, so it could get maybe packed in to about 3 banks (12k), freeing up 12k for whatever else might be interesting. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+Bruce-Robert Pocock Posted March 23 Author Share Posted March 23 3 minutes ago, LatchKeyKid said: Thanks. I'm curious how much of the 64k filesize was all the text you used. Mass Effect did have something like that in Andromeda I believe but the NPCs still obviously responded to you in full speech. I was actually referring to the NPCs conveying info in emoji-style form and you responding with a simple "yes"/up or "no"/down response. So for example, you come up to an NPC and they have the stereotypical exclamation point above their head so you click to "talk" to them; they respond with a sword icon and an enemy sprite and you respond either up or down on the joystiq. Basically, they're asking you to fight/kill that enemy as a quest and you either accept or decline it. It's obviously MUCH more limited than the full on text you used but I figured I'd ask what you thought. For the utterly curious, memory banks assignments are about like: Bank 0: Cold Start/title, EEPROM (SaveKey/on-cart) access Bank 1: Map mode services and the Failure screen Bank 2: Text services Bank 3: Province 1 maps (Port Lion) and music Bank 4: Province 0 maps (Treble Village, Anchor, Spiral Woods, &c) and music Bank 5: Province 2 maps (underground areas) and music Bank 6: Combat Bank 7: Sound effects, speech, and music drivers, and title music Bank 8-12: Text, scripting, and speech Bank 12 (also): End of game Bank 13: Lots of random bits stuffed in at the last minute Bank 14: Monsters (stats, graphics, names) Bank 15: Animation services, combat services, and game finale code As far as the “glyph based” communications system, maybe take a little peek at the games Dungeon and Dungeon II here on AtariAge, they use a not-entirely-different system… 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LatchKeyKid Posted March 23 Share Posted March 23 2 hours ago, Bruce-Robert Pocock said: It looks like the total data for phonemes runs about 8,120 bytes (give or take a few), and there's a little bit of code that goes with it — the printed text totals around 6,461 or so bytes itself. (The text panels are lightly “compressed” in that each character takes only 6 bits, so there are actually about 8,172 characters plus some control codes like colors and scripting.) Overall, with the scripting engine code (replicated in each bank) there are 6 banks of text and speech data × 4 kiB each — one of which is also used for some end-of-game graphics and such as well. That's a total footprint of about 24kiB for text, speech, and drivers; removing the speech portion would probably remove not only 8,120 bytes of speech, but also compact the number of banks needed for the text, so it could get maybe packed in to about 3 banks (12k), freeing up 12k for whatever else might be interesting. That's an impressive amount of text and speech especially for a classic format/platform like this! I'm relatively new to the Atari homebrew scene (a bit over a year of regular visits) but I can't think of anything whether homebrew or official that comes close to that. Thanks for looking that up. Would that 12k be enough to add another map area to explore for example? From your detailed breakdown, aspects like text and enemies are segmented into different banks so I understand that those might not get increased. 1 hour ago, Bruce-Robert Pocock said: As far as the “glyph based” communications system, maybe take a little peek at the games Dungeon and Dungeon II here on AtariAge, they use a not-entirely-different system… I appreciate the info as I'm unfamiliar with the game. I'll take a look right now! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+Bruce-Robert Pocock Posted March 23 Author Share Posted March 23 9 hours ago, LatchKeyKid said: Would that 12k be enough to add another map area to explore for example? Each of the areas has its own 4k bank, with 50-75 screens and its own musical theme. So, in theory, that could add another 3 maps — but, realistically, one additional 4k region + 8k for additional text/scripting perhaps. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+Bruce-Robert Pocock Posted May 4 Author Share Posted May 4 I'm sorry, it's been six months since PRGE and I've been lax in getting a proper v1.2 build of Grizzards up for those who just want to play on emulators or multicarts. Fear not, I have not forgotten, and I will attempt to polish up such a release “soon.” I'd also like the link to this interesting review, which unfortunately I don't speak enough German to follow completely, but perhaps should mention as @H.Fraenkel has clearly put a lot of work into it, and also is one of the very few who have defeated the final boss. And, while I'm sharing reviews, I'm thrilled about this lovely mention, as well… https://youtube.com/clip/UgkxHmMjC8r0jmVxRwf-fV8Pe6drJELtDIwE 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LatchKeyKid Posted May 5 Share Posted May 5 (edited) Looking forward to it! I tried playing it when it came out and read the pdf instructions but couldn't even get past the intro/character screens. Edited May 5 by LatchKeyKid Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+Bruce-Robert Pocock Posted May 5 Author Share Posted May 5 1 hour ago, LatchKeyKid said: Looking forward to it! I tried playing it when it came out and read the pdf instructions but couldn't even get past the intro/character screens. If you were trying in Stella, make sure you selected the left controller as joystick — it may detect as keyboard controller, meaning the Atari 12-key controller, not your PC keyboard. The .pro file will do this, if it's in the same folder as the .a26 ROM file, or you can select it from the Tab menu — or “second key from the top” menu if that isn't Tab on your keyboard. It'll be under Game Properties / Controllers / Left Port and you most likely want to pick Sega Genesis but joystick works fine as well. ← this is the auto-detect thinking it should be Keyboard controller, which does not work If you were getting some kind of “sad face” error code, please do let me know which one … Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LatchKeyKid Posted May 6 Share Posted May 6 Thanks. I'll take a look tonight. It was with Stella but I was using an xbox/windows controller as well as pecking at the keyboard to see if any of those buttons worked. It's been a few months but I was stuck at I think entering in my name. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yurkie Posted May 8 Share Posted May 8 Could some please post a link to the latest rom? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Prizrak Posted May 8 Share Posted May 8 https://star-hope.org/games/Grizzards/multicart.html 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phano Posted May 14 Share Posted May 14 Hello! I just got the cartridge version in the mail today. Unfortunately, I seem to be unable to play it. After entering my name and selecting a grizzard and selecting Begin, the game will either crash with a rolling screen or give the error code 0DF7FB. I have tried with both 2600 and 7800 consoles and different controllers. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Albert Posted May 14 Share Posted May 14 Sorry to hear about the problem with that cart, I've responded to the email you just sent. I'll get another cart built, tested, and out to you on Monday. ..Al Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bradhig1 Posted May 28 Share Posted May 28 the cartridge is saving data without my atarivox plugged in. I get in the lost mine and can't find the way through and most of my creatures are dead with no potions to heal them. How do I get potions? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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