AtGames 2022 Speculation Thread

[Slikatel]

Atari Flashback 11?

[+GoldLeader]

Jaguar Mini!

 

Who wants one?

[wolfy62]

8 hours ago, GoldLeader said:

Jaguar Mini!

 

Who wants one?

Awesome idea!!!??

[atarifan88]

 

[Bill Loguidice]

9 hours ago, GoldLeader said:

Jaguar Mini!

 

Who wants one?

Besides the obvious lack of a wider market, there are not enough impactful games left in Atari's library holdings to license for the Jaguar, plus it's difficult to emulate, especially on commodity hardware. Probably the most likely non-homebrew scenario would be Atari enabling an emulator for the VCS and selling the few titles they still have in their library like they do for their other past consoles. Another possibility along those lines is an Evercade cartridge, but again, I'm not sure the state of emulation is where it needs to be.

[Slikatel]

3 hours ago, Bill Loguidice said:

Besides the obvious lack of a wider market, there are not enough impactful games left in Atari's library holdings to license for the Jaguar, plus it's difficult to emulate, especially on commodity hardware. Probably the most likely non-homebrew scenario would be Atari enabling an emulator for the VCS and selling the few titles they still have in their library like they do for their other past consoles. Another possibility along those lines is an Evercade cartridge, but again, I'm not sure the state of emulation is where it needs to be.

that was clearly a joke. Can we get a confirmation on the AFB11 please?

[CapitanClassic]

Guess @BillLoguidice is still under an NDA. The AFB 11 will likely be released in October, and the announcement probably isn’t until July.

[Bill Loguidice]

There's nothing for me to announce at this time.

[Slikatel]

So it was either leaked by atgames themselves over email or it's not true. I guess time will tell and we wait and see. I'm leaning towards it's legit. Especially since in the past when Bill was asked he always said, no, arcade legends products are the future. He isn't saying that this time. I'm curious what they will price them at.

[Bill Loguidice]

12 minutes ago, Slikatel said:

So it was either leaked by atgames themselves over email or it's not true. I guess time will tell and we wait and see. I'm leaning towards it's legit. Especially since in the past when Bill was asked he always said, no, arcade legends products are the future. He isn't saying that this time. I'm curious what they will price them at.

The focus is absolutely primarily on the Legends Arcade Family products. It doesn't mean the other stuff won't get made on occasion. I just have no info to share at this time about non-home arcade stuff. 

[Slikatel]

Here are some of my ideas for an AFB11.

 

Keep the same AFBX shell. Add at least one USB port for flashdrive or hub for other controllers besides atari sticks. If you stay with OTG for the USB port, make sure we can hook mouse, keyboard and other pads to the system otg. No sd card slot, no matter what people say. side loaded files run better from the flashdrive than the sd card. The AFBX proved this over the AFB9.

 

load it up with atari emulator cores. It doesn't matter how many games atari can sell. Put the few on there you can and let end users side load the rest. I understand that Jaguar doesn't work, but give us the A800, 7800, 5200 and lynx cores. The blaze retro handheld had support for 2600 and 7800, so obviously it's doable and not a big deal. This is where the "other controllers" comes in. We need keyboard for A800 games and we need extra buttons for the other games that came after 2600.

make two version. standard and gold. give the gold wireless joysticks and maybe a set of paddles in the box. Let the standard version be woodgrain and let the gold version be black like the "vader" 2600 and add some star wars bonus games. The Legends Flashback had disney and super star wars games, so I feel like this is doable. It would also give a collector a reason to buy both systems. With the AFBX there was not much difference between a regular and a  deluxe version.

Include an HDMI cable. Ive ordered them for 50 cents or less shipped from japan. So the cost cannot be that much. And here is why. When read reviews, people bitch about not having one, or think they didn't get one and return it. Also some people have sub par hdmi cords, they get no picture on their tv, and they blame it on atgames. I have seen many many times, people had issues with the AFB9 and X and it was the HDMI cord. Including a cord in the past could have stopped some of the bad press.

 

I feel these ideas should be very easy for atgames to incorporate. I hope they don't just dial it in and give us the AFBX with a recycled games list.

[Bill Loguidice]

4 minutes ago, Slikatel said:

Here are some of my ideas for an AFB11.

 

Keep the same AFBX shell. Add at least one USB port for flashdrive or hub for other controllers besides atari sticks. If you stay with OTG for the USB port, make sure we can hook mouse, keyboard and other pads to the system otg. No sd card slot, no matter what people say. side loaded files run better from the flashdrive than the sd card. The AFBX proved this over the AFB9.

 

load it up with atari emulator cores. It doesn't matter how many games atari can sell. Put the few on there you can and let end users side load the rest. I understand that Jaguar doesn't work, but give us the A800, 7800, 5200 and lynx cores. The blaze retro handheld had support for 2600 and 7800, so obviously it's doable and not a big deal. This is where the "other controllers" comes in. We need keyboard for A800 games and we need extra buttons for the other games that came after 2600.

make two version. standard and gold. give the gold wireless joysticks and maybe a set of paddles in the box. Let the standard version be woodgrain and let the gold version be black like the "vader" 2600 and add some star wars bonus games. The Legends Flashback had disney and super star wars games, so I feel like this is doable. It would also give a collector a reason to buy both systems. With the AFBX there was not much difference between a regular and a  deluxe version.

Include an HDMI cable. Ive ordered them for 50 cents or less shipped from japan. So the cost cannot be that much. And here is why. When read reviews, people bitch about not having one, or think they didn't get one and return it. Also some people have sub par hdmi cords, they get no picture on their tv, and they blame it on atgames. I have seen many many times, people had issues with the AFB9 and X and it was the HDMI cord. Including a cord in the past could have stopped some of the bad press.

 

I feel these ideas should be very easy for atgames to incorporate. I hope they don't just dial it in and give us the AFBX with a recycled games list.

I'm sorry to tell you that the market is just not there for deluxe plug and plays like what you describe, so there are unlikely to be significant changes for the foreseeable future. As I've been trying to say for quite a while now, the market (both retailers and consumers) has shifted to home arcade products. There's no longer the same demand for the other types of devices. The market pendulum may swing back at some point, but it's just not something that looks likely at this point.

[Slikatel]

Agreed, just ideas. Free ideas, btw  

 

Those ideas were basically software and cosmetics, I realize times have changed and prices of electronics have skyrocketed. Clearly the easiest idea is to crank out some more AFBXs and call them 11s. And most likely recycle the list of built in games.

 

adding the A800 and 7800 core and other controllers support shouldn't cost too much. It just seems like a missed opportunity if you don't. You actually don't have to have any 7800 or 800 games built in at all. Just provide the core so users can side load the files. The legends flashback had lots of cores. You could play A26, NES, GG, MD, SCD, a lot of stuff really. The LFB and AFB are basically the same thing, correct? I'm merely suggesting uncripple the AFB and make it more like the LFB, just don't break paddle support.

For one thing, anyone collecting and hacking mini systems has probably got all the systems and roms set up that they want by now. Another thing I've begin to notice about the home arcade market is big time collectors are running out of space. Legends Arcade owners have had some firmware trouble and that scene has cooled a little bit. Arcade 1UP has brought the micro console back with the couchcade sticks. (they just keep experimenting don't they, first it was the giant saturn style boomerang, then the giant joysticks, now the lap sticks.) Amiga mini is still coming and they want 140 for it. It will be interesting to see how well it sells. The Egret II mini seemed to be well received. 

 

i don't see it as mini consoles are dead and home arcade cabinets rule. Its all just mini SBCs and how can we package and market it. One day there will better and more powerful SBCs. And we may get those minis that came after PSX. Maybe not as it all might just be streamed digitaly. Only time will tell. Hopefully these ikea arcade cabinets will evolve and get better as well. We are already at the point where people are unloading Gen1 A1Us to make room for new stuff. I just am a fan, and the atari flashaback 1 7800 started all of this, and I would like to see a strong showing if an 11 materializes. I would like to see the praise that atgames received recently to continue on. The pendulum won't swing back on its own, and may never come back, just because how saturated we are with minis, RPis, bootleg s/nes classic, super console X type stuff and everything else, for a very long while. When its all obsolete and fpga is cheaper, maybe?

 

 

Edited April 8, 2022 by Slikatel

[Slikatel]

It feels like money left on the table, but I could be wrong.

 

Hard to find an X on Amazon. New 9s have a crazy asking price. Flashbacks 8-X tend to sell strong on ebay. Even the LFBs have gone up. You really have to look to find them cheap. Maybe it's just the economy? IDK, the X is really nice looking and I think there are still a lot of people who would purchase one for the original $60 retail price.

 

 

Edited April 8, 2022 by Slikatel

[Bill Loguidice]

38 minutes ago, Slikatel said:

For one thing, anyone collecting and hacking mini systems has probably got all the systems and roms set up that they want by now. Another thing I've begin to notice about the home arcade market is big time collectors are running out of space. Legends Arcade owners have had some firmware trouble and that scene has cooled a little bit. Arcade 1UP has brought the micro console back with the couchcade sticks. (they just keep experimenting don't they, first it was the giant saturn style boomerang, then the giant joysticks, now the lap sticks.) Amiga mini is still coming and they want 140 for it. It will be interesting to see how well it sells. The Egret II mini seemed to be well received. 

 

Has Arcade1Up really done so? We've had the Legends Gamer Pro, Legends Game Mini, Legends Core, and Legends Core Max out for quite a while. While they're far more versatile (and less expensive) than closed systems like the Couchcades, they can be used to just play the built-in games (100 - 150 depending upon the product) if one were so motivated.

In terms of the Egret II Mini, it's quite impressive, but unfortunately too expensive and won't sell in large numbers because of it. I'm sure that was in their calculus for releasing the product and why it only has one modest distributor in the US. Similarly, the Amiga Mini will do well for what their needs are. That and the two C-64 SKUs they have are really well done. These are all great examples of how the companies know their markets and can work within their constraints.

[Slikatel]

yes, they did bring the micro console back. No word if it is the same chipset or if it still has the sd card slot. Compared to the puck the build quality of the micro consoles feels like cheap plastic. But, they aren't as bad as all the youtube reviews led people to believe in my honest opinion. The lag on the atgames puck is probably the worst, I hate to say, of any of the mini systems. So its really not hard to beat those products. Again, really sorry to have to say. BTW the A1U micro consoles (pac-man, megaman) have A2600 and A7800 cores built in, out of the box. And they are also RockChip devices.

Edited April 8, 2022 by Slikatel

[Bill Loguidice]

17 minutes ago, Slikatel said:

yes, they did bring the micro console back. No word if it is the same chipset or if it still has the sd card slot. Compared to the puck the build quality of the micro consoles feels like cheap plastic. But, they aren't as bad as all the youtube reviews led people to believe in my honest opinion. The lag on the atgames puck is probably the worst, I hate to say, of any of the mini systems. So its really not hard to beat those products. Again, really sorry to have to say. BTW the A1U micro consoles (pac-man, megaman) have A2600 and A7800 cores built in, out of the box. And they are also RockChip devices.

And as I explained above, they really didn't. No reason to split hairs, though. Both products do the same basic thing, one is just limited to a small handful of games.

[Slikatel]

I'm sorry. I meant A1U brought THEIR "Micro Console" back. That is what they call their box. I didn't mean to imply that they reinvigorated the mini console market. Sorry about that.

 

To be fair, if the A1U mini console box still has the sd card slot, then we can safely say that it won't be limited to a handful of games. The older units played A26, A78, NES, SNES, GB, GBC, GBA, SGG, SG1K, SMS, SMD, SCD out of the box. If someone were so inclined, I believe the megaman firmware update could be hacked to play whatever that chipset could handle. It looks very similar to a flashback.

Mega Man™ HDMI Game Console Firmware Update - Arcade1Up

Edited April 8, 2022 by Slikatel

[Bill Loguidice]

3 minutes ago, Slikatel said:

I'm sorry. I meant A1U brought THEIR "Micro Console" back. That is what they call their box. I didn't mean to imply that they reinvigorated the mini console market. Sorry about that.

 

If the A1U mini console box still has the sd card slot, then we can safely say that it won't be limited to a handful of games. The older units played A26, A78, NES, SNES, SGG, SG1K, SMS, SMD, SCD out of the box. If someone were so inclined, I believe the megaman firmware update could be hacked to play whatever that chipset could handle. It looks very similar to a flashback.

Mega Man™ HDMI Game Console Firmware Update - Arcade1Up

Gotcha. I believe their couchcades will function the same as their other arcade-centric stuff, meaning locked down. I don't think the Blast!-like micro-console experiment went well for them anyway, so that was probably the last of that for a while (again, it's a current state-of-the-market thing).

[Flojomojo]

I recently picked up the "Legends Gamer Mini" for $50 at Gamestop.com, on a pretty deep discount. It's flawed, but once you get the pairing and firmware sorted out, the stick is high quality and there are a ton of built-in games. The bring-your-own games feature expects you to be signed in and only gives you a handful of offline plays, which is a little restrictive. The overall quality has made me satisfied enough that I haven't felt like attempting to root/jailbreak it.

 

If you can find one of these, I can definitely recommend it at the cheap price. There's an updated one coming soon with more hardware power, but a price to match. I mostly like the older games anyway so this will be enough for me. I need to put some more controllers on it for party play of The Simpsons and other beat-em-ups. 

[Slikatel]

@Bill Loguidice

Yes sir, I agree with you. Without seeing the box, there is no way to know. I also heard all the bad reviews on them in the past and only recently picked them up for next to nothing. They do support XBOX pads and I thought it was weird how open the system was via sd slot and firmware upgrades. I too figured they do mostly closed systems.

I think your use of the word experiment is right on the money. The cheap giant boomerang pad, the giant top heavy oversized arcade sticks (did those have an sd card slot btw, I do not own the disney or pacman sticks?) and now its the A1U control panel on a pillow "stick" (accept the atari one doesnt even have a joystick.) It all looks very goofy to me and I see why the "micro console" never took off and stayed under the radar. They have had a few missteps experimenting with controllers and I think this next outing will be strike three for them, actually. All they needed to do was pack in a basic pad from the start.

Edited April 8, 2022 by Slikatel

[Slikatel]

@Flojomojo

 

I am happy with my Legends device and the price I paid for it, no doubt. I think that atgames support and the community are the best part about it. I didn't mean to come off negative. I just have high hopes that products will improve.

Edited April 8, 2022 by Slikatel

[CapitanClassic]

@Slikatel, I am guessing you are wrong. First, I wouldn't trust Ebay for prices, unless you are looking at all completed sales. I regularly see AFBX and AFB9 going for $20-$35 on Goodwill.

https://shopgoodwill.com/item/141838883

 

Additionally,  the Legends Arcade Mini is decent at $129. But wasnt the steal it was at $50 when Gamestop was clearing out their stock. Bill Loguidice is likely correct that the market is moving to premium Arcade systems and subscription models. (I doubt even Nintendo will rerelease their mini systems, since they added much of the same stuff to their Online service. )

 

Also, there is a maximum price that is forced by competitor products (Retron 77-$80)

Edited April 8, 2022 by CapitanClassic

[Flojomojo]

I have to wonder how many of these the market can bear before it's saturated? I love old games and even I am feeling some fatigue -- and running out of space or places to hide them. 

[Slikatel]

1 minute ago, CapitanClassic said:

@Slikatel, I am guessing you are wrong. First, I wouldn't trust Ebay for prices, unless you are looking at all completed sales. I regularly see AFBX and AFB9 going for $20-$35 on Goodwill.

https://shopgoodwill.com/item/141838883

 

Additionally,  the Legends Arcade Mini is decent at $129. But wasnt the steal it was at $50 when Gamestop was clearing out their stock. Bill Loguidice is likely correct that the market is moving to premium Arcade systems and subscription models. (I doubt even Nintendo will rerelease their mini systems, since they added much of the same stuff to their Online service. )

yes goodwill is the secret stash  keep that quiet lol.

Yes I was looking at completed sales, that's what those green prices are up there. I look at them often for a few years now. LGM for $50 was a steal of a deal. The games are still lagged pretty badly compared to other systems, and the max is coming, so I see why the low price.

I also said somewhere up there in my posts that the minis may never come back and new stuff will just be streamed digitally, so I agree with you there.