1008 K Axlon Compatible Board w/Base RAM and no soldering

[reifsnyderb]

2 hours ago, SoulBuster said:

This is exactly why Atari had variations in ....   well.... everything.

 

I love this shit, btw just order 1 of each, thanks 

Boards assembled and tested.   ?

[reifsnyderb]

New style boards are in and working.   ?

 

Changes are:

 

2 512k SRAM chips instead of 1 1024k SRAM chip due to the ??? chip shortage.  (This uses up 2 spare OR gates and an inverter.  ? )

The 10uF capacitor has been changed out for a 1206 surface mount capacitor.

 

What I forgot:  

I forgot to change the footprint of the 74x08 chip to have wider pads.  There are 2 types of SOIC-14 chips that I know of and they are both designated as SOIC-14.  The one has a "D" in it and the other has a "N" in it.  The "D" chip is narrower than the "N" chip.  I have quite a stash of the wide chips due to ordering screw-ups because they are all SOIC-14 chips.  There needs to be a special place in hell for engineers who decide to use the same footprint name for two different chip sizes.  ?

 

I have found that if I take the "N" chips and bend their legs straight down they will solder in a "D" footprint and work just fine.  A casual glance at the board won't even tell you the wrong chip is installed.

 

 

 

[+mytek]

1 hour ago, reifsnyderb said:

There needs to be a special place in hell for engineers who decide to use the same footprint name for two different chip sizes.  ?

Yes I agree. This same bug bit me when I was first prototyping the 576NUC+.

 

Your board looks great ?

 

[reifsnyderb]

Since I am ordering another batch of boards, I've got minor modifications for the next generation of these boards...

 

1.  Wider footprint for the 74xx08 chips.  (U40)  I'll be able to use all of those wide 74F08 chips.

2.  External jumpers to make an optional connection to a personality board.  

 

I've been considering personality board options.  With this chip shortage, to ensure availability I've had to use 74x "glue logic".  So, no CPLDs.  😞

So, I've added a 4 pin header to allow a connection to a custom personality board.  The idea is that Axlon memory (AE pin on board) could be enabled/disabled and/or 52k could be enabled  (MS pin on board).  Under stand-alone conditions, pins 1-2 would be jumpered and pins 3-4 would be jumpered.  If the jumpers are removed, the 2 center pins would be connected to a custom personality board that would control the new memory board as described.

 

 

 

 

[janzh]

Great extension!

I have a mint lovely 800. I would never use a solder on her. But with just 48k? With this extension I have beam her up to the 21th century. SDX runs great! I can use all my apps and devs with great keyboard from 1979.

Happily,

Holger

[reifsnyderb]

It's great to get positive feedback and hear about the board working well.    🙂

 

 

[reifsnyderb]

Ever since I created the 1056 Board for the Atari 400 I was thinking about having a single board that could be configured for either the 400 or 800.  I figure it would be possible to have solder jumpers that would be used to configure the board but didn't bother looking into it.  Today I discovered that Mouser has over 18,000 AT16V8B programable logic chips in stock.  After studying the schematic I realized I should be able to reduce the number of chips on the board from 9 to 5.  That didn't sell me on the idea, though.  But I figured if I didn't have to keep as many types of logic chips in stock it would be a good thing.  So, that got me thinking some more about it.  But what really sold me on the concept was if I could just program the chips for which board is going to be used then I'd only have to keep one type of board in stock as opposed to two.  Since it takes around 10 days from the time I order the board until I get it on my door step, this is a good thing.  Finally, if I could reduce the number of layers from 4 to 2, the boards would be made even faster.  Finally, since there are fewer chips, soldering the 100nF capacitors on the board is a lot more reasonable.

 

To summarize the changes, they are:

 

1.  Replacing core logic with 2 AT16V8B programable logic chips to reduce the number of chips from 9 to 5.

2.  With programmable logic, the same board can be configured for either an Atari 400 or an Atari 800.

3.  Reduced the number of layers from 4 to 2 to reduce the time it takes for the boards to be made.

4.  The boards now will come without the 100nF capacitors installed so as to further reduce the manufacturing time for the boards.

 

The risk is that I may have a timing problem.  Using R/W late, for the timing, resulted in needing to use 74LS04 chips as opposed to 74F04 chips as the 74LS04 chips have a longer propagation time and act as a delay line.  However, the AT16V8B programmable chips have a 10ns propagation delay time so I should be able to work with this.  I also have Phi2 fed into the one chip in the event I have to include it in the timing.

 

When I have to order more boards, I'll have some of these made to test them.   🙂

 

 

[magnusfalkirk]

Just ordered an Atari 400 1056k upgrade board from you on Tindie! I hop=e this is as easy to install as you say, since my electronics skills are nil. The 400 I have I got about a month ago from a friend. Wasn't sure if it worked but after buying a power supply and hooking it up to the tv in my bedroom found out it works! This memory upgrade will be great, now just have to upgrade the video.

 

magnus

[reifsnyderb]

17 hours ago, magnusfalkirk said:

Just ordered an Atari 400 1056k upgrade board from you on Tindie! I hop=e this is as easy to install as you say, since my electronics skills are nil. The 400 I have I got about a month ago from a friend. Wasn't sure if it worked but after buying a power supply and hooking it up to the tv in my bedroom found out it works! This memory upgrade will be great, now just have to upgrade the video.

 

magnus

I just saw your post.  Thank you!  The Atari 400 1056 board requires that 4 jumpers be soldered on the main board because the Atari 400 was never designed for more than 32k of RAM.  The instructions in the link in my Tindie store are quite comprehensive.  At some point I should probably release my video upgrade board....

[magnusfalkirk]

8 hours ago, reifsnyderb said:

I just saw your post.  Thank you!  The Atari 400 1056 board requires that 4 jumpers be soldered on the main board because the Atari 400 was never designed for more than 32k of RAM.  The instructions in the link in my Tindie store are quite comprehensive.  At some point I should probably release my video upgrade board....

That would be a wonderful idea! As it stands right now I have the 400 plugged into the tv in my bedroom, it would be really nice to be able to plug it inot a regular monitor.

[magnusfalkirk]

I got the Atari 400 1056 board in teh mail today. I'm waiting until I get a basic cartridge I bought on eBay to do anything. I want to find out how much memory is in the computer. If the previous owner upgraded the memory then all I'll need to do is put the board in. If, on the othert hand, it still had just 16k of memory I'm going to need to find someone who can put the board in for me, because quite frankly I suck at doing anythin related to working on electronics. As my late wife use to say 'Dean can't turn a hammer or swing a wrench'.

[invisible kid]

I'm sure you will be able to find someone to help from this site if it looks too hairy.

[magnusfalkirk]

On 9/17/2022 at 1:38 PM, invisible kid said:

I'm sure you will be able to find someone to help from this site if it looks too hairy.

Grettings,

 

I have an Atari 400 that a friend gave me that only has 16k of memory. I recently bought the 1056k memory upgrade for it. I'm hoping I can find some kind soul here on AtariAge that would be willing to install the RAM board for me, since as my dearly departed wife used to say "Dean can't turn a hammer or swing a wrench". I'm certain that if I were to attempt the soldering that is necessary, even if simple, I'd probably manage to kill the computer and I don't want to do that. I'll pay shipping both ways. I'll also include a money order to cover the cost of shipping it back to me and whatever amount someone thinks is reasonable to do this for me.

 

I live in westen Oklahoma, so if there is anyone within reasonable driving distance I'll bring the computer to you and then come pick it up when it's ready. Of course I'll still pay whatever you think is reasonable for doing this for me.

 

Hoping to hear from someone and thanks in advance,

magnus

[Mark2008]

On 8/28/2022 at 10:50 AM, reifsnyderb said:

It's great to get positive feedback and hear about the board working well.    🙂

 

 

 

Well then buckle up and get ready for some more positive feedback.

 

How to word this - you made the transaction easy.  I bought it on e-bay, you shipped it immediately, I had it 2 days later.

Compare this to ordering from someone else, where, all they do immediately is write you a note - note will say "I don't actually have any of these, can I have a few weeks?"

Then a few weeks later, it gets bumped to a few months.  Sometimes you never get it, sometimes you get a refund.

 

So just getting it 2 days later like this - I was overjoyed, thrilled.

 

Then, you label it so clearly how to install it.  Just no way for anyone, now, or in the future to get that wrong.

 

And then of course it works, beautifully works, plug and play really.

 

 had a bunch of retro Atari's that I started collecting I don't know, maybe 2008 or so, but anyway, I had 600xl, 800xl, 1200xl, 130xe.

Rapidus, VBXE, U1MB upgrades mostly.  All those are being sold, because they never represented a fully working development path.

 

Not important to this review, just saying, I got rid of all the clutter.  I have an Atari 800, it is my only Atari now. 

 

I have an SDX cart with pass thru.   SDX works with Atari 800, like say if someone used a side 3, but actually this particular cart doesn't support Atari 800.

The cart works on every XE and XL I've plugged it in, and doesn't work on every working Atari 800 I've tried it with - 3 so far.  But this is normal to find, some unexpected incompatibilities.  Just saying the original plan, didn't pan out...and my plan to use SDX 4.49 had to be discarded - that's a pity, but moving on.

 

Your card, I immediately got it working by downloading an ATR on atari age, a DOS XL image preconfigured with Axlon drivers as D3: and D4: ram disks.

Cool, all working, but DOS XL - didn't support some software I use....so I still was on the search for a working system.

 

Then I went with MyDOS - your card again worked immediately, and I had a Ramdisk set up on D8.  I just couldn't get into MyDOS being menu driven, so I kept looking.

 

Lot of DOSes I tried said they were XL/XE only...and obviously DOS 2.5 is also menu driven.

But eventually I found BW-DOS.  Now it does not support Axlon with its built-in Ramdisk, but I just borrowed a Ramdisk from I think the spartados 1.1 disk, and anyway, it did configure and worked just fine.

 

For me - I almost have my working path now, because I have a software based 80 column driver and program editor - it's then classic program KEDIT151.com, works fine for me.

Then I have my compiler (that program itself is 40 column) - PL65.

 

And then I need it to support my ATR8000 and large disks - 1.2MB 5.25" floppies, but I think it will...who knows, but I think I'm close now.

 

whew, ok, I'm sharing about my setup - but going back to the card, hey - shipped fast, works perfect, cost is unbelievably low.  It's all good folks.

 

 

 

 

[reifsnyderb]

@Mark2008 Thanks for the positive feedback and review!  It's great to hear that the card is working well for you.   🙂

 

 

 

[BillC]

On 9/24/2022 at 6:42 PM, Mark2008 said:

Just saying the original plan, didn't pan out...and my plan to use SDX 4.49 had to be discarded - that's a pity, but moving on.

I just successfully loaded SDX v4.47 on a 48KB 800 in Altirra 4.0, and also configured with additional 128/256KB AXLON ramdisk. I remember testing v4.46 on a 48KB 800 years ago, it was the first release SDX upgrade project release to restore 400/800 compatibility.

 

I tested with SDX v4.47 because that cartridge image is the latest I had readily accessible, v4.48/v4.49 are also supposed to be 48KB 400/800 compatible.

Edited October 3, 2022 by BillC

[Mark2008]

1 hour ago, BillC said:

I just successfully loaded SDX v4.47 on a 48KB 800 in Altirra 4.0, and also configured with additional 128/256KB AXLON ramdisk. I remember testing v4.46 on a 48KB 800 years ago, it was the first release SDX upgrade project release to restore 400/800 compatibility.

 

I tested with SDX v4.47 because that cartridge image is the latest I had readily accessible, v4.48/v4.49 are also supposed to be 48KB 400/800 compatible.

 

 

This is probably the more relevant thing that I said in my long rambling post

 

 

On 9/24/2022 at 8:42 PM, Mark2008 said:

SDX works with Atari 800, like say if someone used a side 3, but actually this particular cart doesn't support Atari 800.

 

 

 

When I say it doesn't work with the cartridge that was sold to me, that's precisely all that I mean.

 

I have 3 working Atari 800.  This cartridge doesn't work with any of them.  All of these Atari 800 work perfectly and have no problems with cartridges.   And the cartridge itself - works with every other model of Atari that I've tried it on - 600XL, 800XL, 130XE all working.  It is version 4.49 on the cart.

 

This is normal...what I've found over the years, is many things, especially, I dare say, micro batches of reproduction hardware that were soldered in tiny quantities... don't work quite the way as expected, and you just have to test them to see what works and what doesn't.

 

Now, going back to the Axlon card, it works perfectly in every way, which was truly cool, of course...

 

 

 

Edited October 3, 2022 by Mark2008
clarity

[burkhart87]

On 9/24/2022 at 9:42 PM, Mark2008 said:

 

 

I have an SDX cart with pass thru.   SDX works with Atari 800, like say if someone used a side 3, but actually this particular cart doesn't support Atari 800.

The cart works on every XE and XL I've plugged it in, and doesn't work on every working Atari 800 I've tried it with - 3 so far.  But this is normal to find, some unexpected incompatibilities.  Just saying the original plan, didn't pan out...and my plan to use SDX 4.49 had to be discarded - that's a pity, but moving on.

 

 

Good to hear someone else has the same problem...it was driving me nuts.  I've 2 800's that are stock except one has a video output upgrade.  Neither of these 800's will boot with the SDX 4.49 cart from dropcheck. However, the same SDX cart works fine in both of my 800XL's.  Moving on, I can boot all four machines (and use some DOS functions) with various SDX versions (including 4.49) from an AVG cart. ?????

One obvious difference between the dropcheck cart and AVG cart versions is the battery and RT clock found in the dropcheck cart. 

 

Edited November 16, 2022 by burkhart87

[reifsnyderb]

14 minutes ago, burkhart87 said:

Good to hear someone else has the same problem...it was driving me nuts.  I've 2 800's that are stock except one has a video output upgrade.  Neither of these 800's will boot with the SDX 4.49 cart from dropcheck. However, the same SDX cart works fine in both of my 800XL's.  Moving on, I can boot all four machines (and use some DOS functions) with various SDX versions (inlcuding 4.49) from an AVG cart. ?????

One obvious difference between the dropcheck cart and AVG cart versions is the battery and RT clock found in the dropcheck cart. 

The Atari 400 and Atari 800 have RASTIME on pin S of the cartridge port.  The XL's and XE's have buffered Phi2 on pin S.  Unless a cartridge is designed with this difference in mind, any cartridge that relies on pin S, for timing, may work fine on an XL/XE and have problems on a 400/800....or vice versa.

[Faicuai]

On 4/22/2022 at 12:53 PM, reifsnyderb said:

I didn't like having the /S4 and /S5 jumper wires with that extra connector at J2.  I found some instructions for the original Atari 400 RAM upgrade and connected /S4 and /S5 to pins R and N, respectively.  So 4 wires will need to be soldered to the bottom of the board as per Atari's original instructions.  The board and installation are now much cleaner.

 

 

 

Ok, you got me out of hibernation with this one... 😍

 

Quick sanity check:

 

1. Would work with RAMROD 52K board (with $C000-$CFFF as 4K RAM) on Slot-0?

2. Would Slot3 be free and fully functional to support my Bit3 cards (and others)?

3. Any additional incompatibilities to be expected?

4. Last but not least, is "tindie" the only place to order from? (never heard of that before...)

 

Thanks, and Kudos !!

[reifsnyderb]

2 minutes ago, Faicuai said:

 

Ok, you got me out of hibernation with this one... 😍

 

Quick sanity check:

 

1. Would work with RAMROD 52K board (with $C000-$CFFF as 4K RAM) on Slot-0?

2. Would Slot3 be free and fully functional to support my Bit3 cards (and others)?

3. Any additional incompatibilities to be expected?

4. Last but not least, is "tindie" the only place to order from? (never heard of that before...)

 

Thanks, and Kudos !!

Hello!

 

The Axlon bank register is from CFC0 to CFFF as it's all mirrored.  So it's not recommended to use 4k of RAM in $C000-$CFFF.  However, you can use the RAMROD board with Omnimon or Omniview.  RAM slot 3 is unused and a Bit3 could be installed with the 1056 board.  I sell those on ebay as well.  It will probably be 3 days until I have more 1MB chips in stock to make these boards as I just sold my last chip.

 

Thanks!

 

Brian

 

[Faicuai]

1 minute ago, reifsnyderb said:

Hello!

 

The Axlon bank register is from CFC0 to CFFF as it's all mirrored.  So it's not recommended to use 4k of RAM in $C000-$CFFF.  However, you can use the RAMROD board with Omnimon or Omniview.  RAM slot 3 is unused and a Bit3 could be installed with the 1056 board.  I sell those on ebay as well.  It will probably be 3 days until I have more 1MB chips in stock to make these boards as I just sold my last chip.

 

Thanks!

 

Brian

 

 

Thanks!!!

 

Out of curiosity, any chance you could make a 4MB bad-ass version of this one?

 

😜😉

[reifsnyderb]

1 minute ago, Faicuai said:

 

Thanks!!!

 

Out of curiosity, any chance you could make a 4MB bad-ass version of this one?

 

😜😉

It's possible to do so, yes.  However, it would be quite expensive as the 1MB chips are about $8 each.  The board size may be well over 100mm on a side to fit all the chips on as well.  (I would try hard to avoid this, of course.)  This increases the cost considerably as well because they add this "engineering fee" to larger board designs.  If there is enough interest I'd be up for it.  The final price for such a board would be at least $125 each due to assembly and testing time.  When there is a problem, it can take a considerable amount of time to track down and fix the problem as well.  The most frequent problems are a bad solder connection somewhere.  It can take anywhere from a few minutes to well over an hour to find one.  

[Faicuai]

Just now, reifsnyderb said:

It's possible to do so, yes.  However, it would be quite expensive as the 1MB chips are about $8 each.  The board size may be well over 100mm on a side to fit all the chips on as well.  (I would try hard to avoid this, of course.)  This increases the cost considerably as well because they add this "engineering fee" to larger board designs.  If there is enough interest I'd be up for it.  The final price for such a board would be at least $125 each due to assembly and testing time.  When there is a problem, it can take a considerable amount of time to track down and fix the problem as well.  The most frequent problems are a bad solder connection somewhere.  It can take anywhere from a few minutes to well over an hour to find one.  

 

Try to sense interest (I'm in!)

 

IMHO, an 800 loaded with drop-in, solder-less [RamRod + 4MB Axlon + Bit3] is a slick, bad-ass 8-bit combo... a solid addition to any enthusiast, serious or collector arsenal.

 

In any case, the current board looks really great and well put together !!

 

Thanks!!

 

 

[reifsnyderb]

Every now and then I look at some of the existing boards I make and see if I can improve them in some way.  Today I received this test board.  The idea is to see if I can replace 5 or even 6 chips with an ATF20V10 and a capacitor.  Worst case, I designed the board so I could stick a 74LS04 back on as a delay line.  From looking at the Happy Schematic, I felt that it would be possible to put a capacitor in as a delay line too.  The timing issue is that the clock pulse to the 74F174 needs to rise after R/W late goes low but before R/W late goes high.  So, after a little bit of experimentation, swapping capacitors, it worked.  🙂  I tried several different capacitor sizes and ended up putting 3 1nF capacitors, in parallel at C9, to get it to work.

 

I'll need to look more into the schematics but it may now be possible to make a board that would work on either a 400 or 800 by just reprogramming a chip and adding a couple resistors for the 400 version.

 

 

 

Edited September 18, 2023 by reifsnyderb