New Intellivision console coming?

[Games For Your Intellivision]

This is not a hobbyist project, so not looking to piggyback on other products such as the Mister. 

[+5-11under]

I suggest a basic or C or other compiler be created at the same time, along with of course documentation and sample code.

[IMBerzerk]

6 hours ago, Games For Your Intellivision said:

No. Think Intellivision 3. It's basically more moving objects, more colours, more graphic ram. 

Its a great idea and I hope you're able to get it to market at a sensible price.

 

I've had conversations with many on other boards about the differences between software emu and FPGA based emu.  There is no comparison is the bottom line.  One tries to act like the original machine based on the specs of the machine you're running the software on (RP3, RP3, PC... so on), the other becomes the machine using the ability of the board it's coded to.

 

I have several RetroPie units and a literal handful of MAME machines... but nothing is better than the original hardware or at least a properly coded FPGA unit.  I use my C64 Maxi just like I would use an original C64, but I don't need all the extra peripherals.

 

I'm looking forward to this, and I'll be monitoring it for sure. 

Edited August 23, 2022 by IMBerzerk

[JohnPCAE]

You know, my project in the Bird's Nest thread (Advanced Console Component) brings a ton of enhancements to existing Intellivision units. I don't have the skills to make an FPGA solution, but it could be conceivably reduced to just an FPGA, 1K FIFO, and the Raspberry Pi Pico. All of the chips on the board except for the FIFO chip are just TTL glue logic. You could probably also bury the FIFO in the FPGA as well.

 

 

Edited August 23, 2022 by JohnPCAE

[+Lathe26]

One recommendation would be to upgrade the sound chips from an AY-8914 (or AY-3-8917) to an AY8930 (aka the AY-3-8930).  This would be in line with the other upgrades.  Datasheet is attached.

 

Upsides:

• Designed to be a backwards compatible upgrade to the AY-3-8910.  It boots into this mode.  Code has to write special value to a register to turn on all of the following advanced features.
• Tone Period upgraded from 12-bits to 16-bits
• Noise Period upgraded from 5-bits to 8-bits
• Amplitude (volume control) upgraded from 4-bits to 5-bits.
• Channels A, B, and C each now have their own Envelope Period and their own Envelope Shape (rather than 1 shared Envelope Period and 1 shared Envelope Shape used by all 3 channels).
• Channels A, B, and C can now have alterable duty cycles, each settable independently (rather than a fixed duty cycle of 50%).
• Noise now has an 8-bit AND mask and 8-bit OR mask.  These are used to alter and shape the noise channel's output.

Downsides:

• Not sure if the FPGA community has emulated this chip.  Of all the downsides, this alone might force this recommendation to be rejected.
• This chip did not sell well back in the day.  It is harder to get a hold of actual chips to test with.
• Its register map was designed to be backwards compatible with the AY-3-8910, not the AY-3-8914, though this was just moving registers to slightly different locations.  This is trivial to fix in an FPGA.

PSG AY8930 - Manual.pdf

[+BBWW]

15 hours ago, JohnPCAE said:

You know, my project in the Bird's Nest thread (Advanced Console Component) brings a ton of enhancements to existing Intellivision units. I don't have the skills to make an FPGA solution, but it could be conceivably reduced to just an FPGA, 1K FIFO, and the Raspberry Pi Pico. All of the chips on the board except for the FIFO chip are just TTL glue logic. You could probably also bury the FIFO in the FPGA as well.

 

 

I always thought this should be made and have a few games at launch that would use the upgrade. My expertise is useless in this endeavor but as a fan I love the idea. It is much less Pie in the Sky than Amico...

 

 

[+cmadruga]

I like the idea of an Intellivision 3... the specs do not feel arbitrary, but rather from an "alternate future" where the original Intellivision took a realistic evolutionary step.

I'm very intrigued by this initiative.

Edited August 23, 2022 by cmadruga

[Games For Your Intellivision]

9 hours ago, cmadruga said:

I like the idea of an Intellivision 3... the specs do not feel arbitrary, but rather from an "alternate future" where the original Intellivision took a realistic evolutionary step.

I'm very intrigued by this initiative.

Any help in finding more specific Intellivision III specifications would be helpful. Our enhanced spec is similar, but not sure how similar. 

[Games For Your Intellivision]

On 8/23/2022 at 11:36 AM, Lathe26 said:

One recommendation would be to upgrade the sound chips from an AY-8914 (or AY-3-8917) to an AY8930 (aka the AY-3-8930).  This would be in line with the other upgrades.  Datasheet is attached.

 

Upsides:

• Designed to be a backwards compatible upgrade to the AY-3-8910.  It boots into this mode.  Code has to write special value to a register to turn on all of the following advanced features.
• Tone Period upgraded from 12-bits to 16-bits
• Noise Period upgraded from 5-bits to 8-bits
• Amplitude (volume control) upgraded from 4-bits to 5-bits.
• Channels A, B, and C each now have their own Envelope Period and their own Envelope Shape (rather than 1 shared Envelope Period and 1 shared Envelope Shape used by all 3 channels).
• Channels A, B, and C can now have alterable duty cycles, each settable independently (rather than a fixed duty cycle of 50%).
• Noise now has an 8-bit AND mask and 8-bit OR mask.  These are used to alter and shape the noise channel's output.

Downsides:

• Not sure if the FPGA community has emulated this chip.  Of all the downsides, this alone might force this recommendation to be rejected.
• This chip did not sell well back in the day.  It is harder to get a hold of actual chips to test with.
• Its register map was designed to be backwards compatible with the AY-3-8910, not the AY-3-8914, though this was just moving registers to slightly different locations.  This is trivial to fix in an FPGA.

PSG AY8930 - Manual.pdf 696.53 kB · 3 downloads

This would be a good thing to consider once the basic implementation of the FPGA is working. 

[Games For Your Intellivision]

I know that people in this forum are excited about the possibility of a new classic Intellivision console coming out that they can buy and use with their current HDMI televisions and cartridge collections. However, I didn't post information on the console simply to create a buzz. I want to get the word out to people with the proper skills and interest in the console and invite them to join us. Any help in locating people to form a development team would be appreciated. 

 

Elektronite is acting as basically a consultant on the new console. I joked that it could be called the 'Elektrovision'. Since it doesn't have a name, I'll refer to it as that for now. 

 

We are working with a small business that has multiple successful products in the video game business. It isn't a small operation such as Elektronite. However, it isn't a huge business either. 

 

We aren't asking for volunteers to work for free on the hardware/software implementation. However, we still don't have a ton of money to throw around. This is not a million dollar venture. 

 

It is my understanding that the @Games Intellivision flashback units were a bit of a disappointment sales wise compared to their other flashback units. Had Keith Robinson not passed away, it was doubtful that there would have been an Intellivision flashback II. So, selling a lot of cheap units cheaply didn't work. However, I believe that a Collectorvision Phoenix model is the way to go. 

 

The first step is to find someone who has implemented or can implement the Intellivision in FPGA. Someone who is interested in seeing their work professionally released but is not going to charge rates that make the project unviable. I approached a company in the past to get an FPGA Intellivision designed and I can't quite remember the exact numbers, but it was something in the 50,000 dollar desposit and another 100,000 dollars upon completion. That is not happening. 

 

Until then, issues such as enhanced sound chips and what the console looks like are cool to talk about and possibly plan for, but is kind of putting the cart before the horse. However, If someone wants to 3d print the Intellivision III shell from Mattel's promotional catalogue or draw up what the console might look like, that would be cool. 

[mr_me]

Apparently Mattel did have GI build an updated STIC prototype.  It had higher resolution, four colour background cards and sprites, programmable 12-bit colour palettes, the eight sprites can be reused per scanline.  Specifications at the following link for anyone that hasn't seen it.

http://papaintellivision.com/docIntv3.php

[Games For Your Intellivision]

1 hour ago, mr_me said:

Apparently Mattel did have GI build an updated STIC prototype.  It had higher resolution, four colour background cards and sprites, programmable 12-bit colour palettes, the eight sprites can be reused per scanline.  Specifications at the following link for anyone that hasn't seen it.

http://papaintellivision.com/docIntv3.php

I figured there must be something on the Papa Intellivision site regarding the Intellivision III. 

 

Enhanced versions of the existing games could be included in the console, such as Utopia with better graphics, or 'sold separately'. 

 

People who want to speak privately to me can email me at elektronite@hotmail.com 

[+5-11under]

I have no idea on licensing and copyrights of existing MiSTer FPGA cores, but I'd investigate that, and talk with the author(s) to see if they would be willing to take on this job to add the enhancements you're looking at, and port it to your requested hardware set-up. You could first get the enhancements working on the MiSTer FPGA, then figure out what hardware you'd want to finally run this on.

[Games For Your Intellivision]

1 hour ago, 5-11under said:

I have no idea on licensing and copyrights of existing MiSTer FPGA cores, but I'd investigate that, and talk with the author(s) to see if they would be willing to take on this job to add the enhancements you're looking at, and port it to your requested hardware set-up. You could first get the enhancements working on the MiSTer FPGA, then figure out what hardware you'd want to finally run this on.

It seems to me that any Intellivision MISTer FPGA core would not be licensed. 

[+5-11under]

3 minutes ago, Games For Your Intellivision said:

It seems to me that any Intellivision MISTer FPGA core would not be licensed. 

The important thing here is that there are people who understand the blocks that are required, as well as how to put them together, and likely how to expand the capabilities of them. If you contact them, maybe you could work out a deal for a new core (for MiSTer and then your hardware).

[Games For Your Intellivision]

12 minutes ago, 5-11under said:

The important thing here is that there are people who understand the blocks that are required, as well as how to put them together, and likely how to expand the capabilities of them. If you contact them, maybe you could work out a deal for a new core (for MiSTer and then your hardware).

That's the thing. I don't know the details of the license, but sub-licensing would be totally offlimits in my estimate. I can't see there being any way that we could sublicense rights to MiSter. 

[mr_me]

Mister is covered under the GNU Public License.  It can be modified and used commercially.  Modifications have to be shared but you should be able to have closed source portions if it's separate. That's the Mister system, I don't know if that covers all the system cores but you can ask. Lots of commercial products use open source technology, Android is open source and okay with Samsung, LG, Motorola, etc. 

Edited August 24, 2022 by mr_me

[+5-11under]

45 minutes ago, Games For Your Intellivision said:

That's the thing. I don't know the details of the license, but sub-licensing would be totally offlimits in my estimate. I can't see there being any way that we could sublicense rights to MiSter. 

Time for some investigation, I guess. Some aspects (chips) may be open for use. In the least, these are the people who may be able to get a core for you for much less than $100K.

 

[Games For Your Intellivision]

4 minutes ago, 5-11under said:

Time for some investigation, I guess. Some aspects (chips) may be open for use. In the least, these are the people who may be able to get a core for you for much less than $100K.

 

We have an FPGA chipset. We have rights. They are not transferable. I don't see how other than hiring someone from their team to do the FPGA, that there is any synergy with that group. 

[+5-11under]

I meant aspects of a core. Anyway, the real point is, there are people who understand how to make cores for Intellivision, and likely how to expand the functionality of an Intellivision core. People who have contributed to MiSTer, MiST, Phoenix, Analogue, or similar projects, are people who understand FPGA programming/design, and who also understand video games. People like this are possibly your best bet in getting a core completed. If you find some of them, and talk to them, perhaps you'll find a suitable candidate for the work.

[JohnPCAE]

On 8/23/2022 at 3:23 PM, BBWW said:

I always thought this should be made and have a few games at launch that would use the upgrade. My expertise is useless in this endeavor but as a fan I love the idea. It is much less Pie in the Sky than Amico...

 

 

I have a complete spare unit boxed up and ready to send to anyone who wants to develop for it. I have a second spare unit almost finished, and the remaining chips that I need to complete it should arrive today. All chips are socketed so all I have to do is pop them in, set up and pop in the Pi Pico, and test it. Before sending the second one I'll also probably order a wall wart for it as well (6V center positive).

Edited August 26, 2022 by JohnPCAE

[SiLic0ne t0aD]

There should be an Intellivision core for the Phoenix, eventually. 🤞

 

A separate, standalone Intellivision FPGA console would be amazing though! I've been hoping for something like this for a while now, so I'm glad it's being considered. Plus, It's something that's going to be needed in the future, as our consoles continue to age and break down on us. I dislike emulation and prefer using actual hardware as much as possible, though I would probably play something FPGA based more than it's vintage equivalent (ie. the Phoenix; Haven't played an actual OG ColecoVision in a year or two now). Anyway, you have my support!

[Games For Your Intellivision]

It has been decided that the Intellivision FPGA core will be an Intellivision 3 specced core. The core will be written to be the Intellivision 3 and we will ensure that it can run all existing Intellivision programs and cartridges. 

 

The console will have a cartridge port and run original cartridges, have some built in Intellivision games, a couple of enhanced (Intellivision 3) updated originals... (Think Utopia with better graphics) and able to run enhanced Intellivision 3 games on current existing cartridges such as the JLP and LTO Flash!

 

Please, no further comments about the Mister. It isn't what we are trying to do. We have no interest in using their hardware, nor glomming on some cartridge port to their hardware and our FPGA chipset is incompatible with the Mister, as far as I know, considering the hardware we have in mind. 

 

Further details to follow... 

 

 

Edited August 31, 2022 by Games For Your Intellivision
clarify a confusing sentence

[Sinjinhawke]

This is pretty exciting.  Pretty stoked about what you are planning.  Best of luck to this project.

[MASTER260]

I knew someone was gonna do this after the Amico failed just like the Collectorvision came out after the Chameleon failed.