CV-NUC+ A Miniature CV Motherboard is in the Works

[NIAD]

4 hours ago, mytek said:

• Crazy Climber
• Crazy Chicky Jr
•  
• Deep Dungen Adventure
• The Black Onyx
• Bankruptcy Builder
  • The following are Atarisoft Titles -- many being prototypes
• Centipede
• Dig Dug
• Defender
• Pac Man
• Joust (the Joust from Williams did work, and it looks far more complete & has sound)

Centipede and Defender were released by AtariSoft, the others are indeed prototypes

 

The Black Onyx uses the Homebrew Activision PCB with SaveRAM, that could be the issue

 

I blanked one out... secret, secret, I got a secret 😁

[+mytek]

7 hours ago, NIAD said:

The Black Onyx uses the Homebrew Activision PCB with SaveRAM, that could be the issue

Yes I just came up to speed on that situation this morning. It's another one that needs to be a real cart in order to work properly. In an odd sort of way this is good news.

 

7 hours ago, NIAD said:

I blanked one out... secret, secret, I got a secret 😁

Hmm... care to fill me in

 

EDIT: Is it the same problem as Black Onyx?

[+mytek]

I was just asked in a PM how much will this CV-NUC+ system sell for?

 

The simple answer is I don't know, and I won't be selling any myself. This is a DIY design and build for my own entertainment first and foremost. However the manufacturing files will get released in the near future, and when that happens anyone that chooses to can build and sell these for whatever they think they can get. I won't get a cut of the action, and I won't dictate the price. I also don't accept any liability for the system in general, or the build quality from any potential sellers. If you have an issue with a unit you bought, bring it up with the seller not me, or post it to the forums where all can benefit.

 

Bottom line I'm not encouraging anyone to spend money on what I created for myself. There are no guarantees that it will support a particular game that you wish to play, or work seamlessly with any controller you throw at it, or upgrade that you would like to install. This is definitely one of those "Do it at your own risk" kind of projects.

 

BTW, I would appreciate that any questions about this project get posted on this thread and not via a PM. I usually only accept PMs in response to an invite, or from someone I have a working relationship with, whom is probably someone that has helped me in technical matters pertaining to this project (beta tester, ect.).

 

I hope that fully answers the question

[+swlovinist]

48 minutes ago, mytek said:

I was just asked in a PM how much will this CV-NUC+ system sell for?

 

The simple answer is I don't know, and I won't be selling any myself. This is a DIY design and build for my own entertainment first and foremost. However the manufacturing files will get released in the near future, and when that happens anyone that chooses to can build and sell these for whatever they think they can get. I won't get a cut of the action, and I won't dictate the price. I also don't accept any liability for the system in general, or the build quality from any potential sellers. If you have an issue with a unit you bought, bring it up with the seller not me, or post it to the forums where all can benefit.

 

Bottom line I'm not encouraging anyone to spend money on what I created for myself. There are no guarantees that it will support a particular game that you wish to play, or work seamlessly with any controller you throw at it, or upgrade that you would like to install. This is definitely one of those "Do it at your own risk" kind of projects.

 

BTW, I would appreciate that any questions about this project get posted on this thread and not via a PM. I usually only accept PMs in response to an invite, or from someone I have a working relationship with, whom is probably someone that has helped me in technical matters pertaining to this project (beta tester, ect.).

 

I hope that fully answers the question

Thank you for the update on this project.   

[massiverobot]

4 hours ago, mytek said:

I was just asked in a PM how much will this CV-NUC+ system sell for?

 

...However the manufacturing files will get released in the near future, and when that happens anyone that chooses to can build and sell these for whatever they think they can get. I won't get a cut of the action, and I won't dictate the price. I also don't accept any liability for the system in general, or the build quality from any potential sellers. If you have an issue with a unit you bought, bring it up with the seller not me, or post it to the forums where all can benefit.

 

 

Any discussion with the BrewingAcademy? I'm a happy owner of the NUC and 1088 and so I've found them to have very high quailty builds and a relationship with you.

 

-andy

[+mytek]

33 minutes ago, massiverobot said:

Any discussion with the BrewingAcademy? I'm a happy owner of the NUC and 1088 and so I've found them to have very high quailty builds and a relationship with you.

MacRorie said he'd be carrying a minimal DIY kit, but there hasn't been any discussion of a fully assembled version. I wouldn't be opposed, but there is still a lot to do before we get to that point in the project, so I'll leave that discussion for down the road

[+mytek]

I began blogging about the CV-NUC+ last month, and this is where you'll find a bit more info on this system and its history.

 

https://ataribits.weebly.com/blog/category/colecovision

 

BTW, nothing in the final version of this system will be called SGM. It has now taken on the MSX moniker instead (encompasses the SX as well). Thus giving a hats off to where a lot of these newer more capable games began life, and hopefully ending any dispute about the SGM name rights. Although MSX is also a recognized brand, I feel that there will be less problems going down that road

[+LarryL]

On 1/21/2023 at 5:19 PM, mytek said:

I began blogging about the CV-NUC+ last month, and this is where you'll find a bit more info on this system and its history.

 

https://ataribits.weebly.com/blog/category/colecovision

 

BTW, nothing in the final version of this system will be called SGM. It has now taken on the MSX moniker instead (encompasses the SX as well). Thus giving a hats off to where a lot of these newer more capable games began life, and hopefully ending any dispute about the SGM name rights. Although MSX is also a recognized brand, I feel that there will be less problems going down that road

 

love, reading your blog and all the details about the progress!

 

could you already share a (preliminary) BOM?

I would like to start sourcing some of the "not so easy to get" components...

[+mytek]

3 hours ago, LarryL said:

love, reading your blog and all the details about the progress!

Thank you. I try to keep it interesting, with just the right amount of technical info to cover the highlights.

 

3 hours ago, LarryL said:

could you already share a (preliminary) BOM?

I won't be ready to do that until I get the 2nd set of sample boards assembled and tested. This shouldn't matter all that much anyway, since the board files aren't scheduled for release until early April at the soonest. So the BOM release will likely happen at least a month before that. Factoring in the time to get boards made, that makes for about a 6 week lead time, which is more than sufficient to get all the required parts on hand to assemble the boards when they do arrive.

 

3 hours ago, LarryL said:

I would like to start sourcing some of the "not so easy to get" components...

Keep in mind that there will be a DIY kit from TBA that will bring the boards and the hard to get IC components, as well as the programmable devices already programmed. So unless you plan on building 5 of each (the minimum PCB order for most manufacturers), you're better off to buy the kit.

 

Even with the cheapest shipping option, which takes 2-3 weeks to deliver,  it comes to $61 minimum for a board set to be manufactured and shipped. Here's a breakdown on ordering a full set of boards from JLCPCB. And due to the 4-layer main and MSX plug-in boards, it would be even more expensive to do this with PCBWAY (their 4-layer boards are pricey).

 

[+LarryL]

2 hours ago, mytek said:

Keep in mind that there will be a DIY kit from TBA that will bring the boards and the hard to get IC components, as well as the programmable devices already programmed. So unless you plan on building 5 of each (the minimum PCB order for most manufacturers), you're better off to buy the kit.

 

Even with the cheapest shipping option, which takes 2-3 weeks to deliver,  it comes to $61 minimum for a board set to be manufactured and shipped. Here's a breakdown on ordering a full set of boards from JLCPCB. And due to the 4-layer main and MSX plug-in boards, it would be even more expensive to do this with PCBWAY (their 4-layer boards are pricey).

 

 

Thanks for the update!

 

since I am based in europe, shipping from TBA might be as expensive as the board set from JLCPCB itself 🙂

But having the CPLD pre-programmed and having a reliable source for the hard to get IC components, might be essential issue

 

OK, I will try to wait patiently

[+mytek]

19 minutes ago, LarryL said:

 

Thanks for the update!

 

since I am based in europe, shipping from TBA might be as expensive as the board set from JLCPCB itself 🙂

But having the CPLD pre-programmed and having a reliable source for the hard to get IC components, might be essential issue

 

OK, I will try to wait patiently

I should probably mention that since you are in Europe the CV-NUC+ is an NTSC based system only, and not something that can be easily converted to PAL. Even with something like the FC18A, there simply isn't enough room to allow it to be plugged in place of the TMS chip.

[+LarryL]

22 minutes ago, mytek said:

I should probably mention that since you are in Europe the CV-NUC+ is an NTSC based system only, and not something that can be easily converted to PAL. Even with something like the FC18A, there simply isn't enough room to allow it to be plugged in place of the TMS chip.

thanks, I am aware of the fact.

i have a TV that can handle NTSC signals

[+mytek]

3 hours ago, LarryL said:

thanks, I am aware of the fact.

i have a TV that can handle NTSC signals

That's good 👍

 

Those multi-sync monitors are probably more common in Europe than the US. I think I only have one monitor over here that can run under either video standard.

[+mytek]

I've been blogging about fine tuning the chroma circuit on this project, and in the process resolved some color snow issues I was seeing previously. So at this point the video output looks extremely clean, now rendering solid blacks. The only caveat is that the color saturation on the monitor needs to be turned up to get nicely saturated colors.

 

So because the S-Video is now so utterly clean, I decided to plug it into my el-cheapo S-Video to HDMI converter and put it on the big screen. I wasn't disappointed 

 

This is with the converter set to 720P and a 4:3 aspect ratio. All doable on the converter, not requiring any aspect changes on the TV.

My camera did a pretty good job at capturing the 55" HDTV screen.

 

This is the converter I used.

 

AliExpress Buy LINK

 

I know it isn't an F18a, but it certainly is considerably less money to purchase. And being HDMI output with integral audio pass-thru, it's a bit more versatile with most people having an HDTV.

 

BTW, I can play this game with a wireless USB mouse 👍

[+mytek]

2nd set of sample boards have been ordered...

Some of these are up to revision level 5, although not every revision got made into a PCB. The CV-EAV is a separate video board project aimed at the stock Colecovision.

 

Some names got changed, specifically there is now a CV-NUC+MSX module that encompasses all of the system RAM (32K) and both the SN and AY sound chips, thus allowing the system to work with simple ports of existing MSX based games. It has a high compatibility with the Super Game Module from an application point of view, although the hardware implementation of the memory decoding is entirely unique. This module is only usable and required for the CV-NUC+ architecture. So no, you can't plug this into the expansion port on either a factory Colecovision or Adam.

 

I am very hopeful that all the bugs got squished in these latest board designs, and if this is the case, then the release of the manufacturing files might occur sometime in March, with the STL enclosure design to follow (this might lag by a month or two).

[Atari Nut]

Looks great. I'd be interested.

[+mytek]

2nd Run Sample Boards so far Look Really Good 👍

 

In this overhead view you might notice a few oddities in a few components. I'm still waiting for a parts order to arrive and am currently without 10K 1/8 watt resistors, so I substituted some 1/4 watt ones instead by standing them on their heads. Also waiting for a 150 pf capacitor, so in the meantime I mickey moused one from two capacitors connected in series (you can see that just below the CPU towards the right).

 

The Main board has a footprint that's only 4.5" square, with the MSX Module slightly overhanging the right side.

Those little square stick-on copper heat sinks seem to be doing just fine at keeping the VDP chip from getting too hot. In my opinion I think Coleco went totally overkill with the big finned monstrosity that they used. It's also nice to still see the chip number.

I'm not sure about that long bat power toggle switch. Originally I had one that was too short, making it difficult to flip, so I ordered this one which does flip quite easily, but maybe it's too long. However it's on the back side so won't really be visible when this gets put into an enclosure. EDIT: The more that I think about it, perhaps the long handle will make it easier to find it when reaching over and feeling around in the back of the unit.

 

The MSX Module brings 32K System RAM, and both sound chips, with the ATMEL CPLD controlling both of these aspects.

 

EDIT: The video shows some strange things happening in the blue background pattern -- this is not visible in real life and appears to be the fault of the video capture by my GoPro or by YouTube. Also the color is a bit weaker than reality, with the guys in the 2nd floor being rendered as almost white in the video, but actually appear distinctly yellow to the eye.

 

I have yet to assemble the other boards for the complete set (there are 4 total), but this is all that's needed to have a working system. The other boards just add a few enhancements, and give the unit roller controller support.

 

The previous boards had a few issues that still needed to be worked out, and then those changes got incorporated into this new board layout. I think the biggest screw up was not placing the Cart Connector in the correct spot, and having to use an extender to be able to plug in a cart. That's now been fixed

 

I also had to do a few tweaks to the video and audio which now appear to be working very well.

[+mytek]

I got the newest revision of the CV-NUC+QUAD board assembled, and it works 👍

This revision incorporates all 3 mouse buttons (Left, Middle-Scroll Wheel, Right) each designated to a unique CV fire button.

Piggybacks to the Main board via three pin headers (A, B, & C) on the bottom side that get plugged into mating receptacles on the main board.

 

Accepts either wired or wireless USB Mouse. When the Mouse or its wireless receiver is unplugged it leaves the CV ports free for a standard Roller-Controller to work (at least in theory, since I don't have one to test with).

 

[+mytek]

CV-NUC+MSX CPLD Now Fully Working -- Defaulting to 1K Machine & Seamlessly Transitioning to an SGM Compatible System

 

It took a bit more tweaking of the CPLD code, but I finally figured out what all was required to get it to power-up in Standard 1K mode and to then be properly detected as having the equivalent to an SGM onboard. I gotta say being able to create the CPLD core in a schematic capture form really made things a lot more understandable, at least to me that is 

 

Here's what that schematic looks like now...

 

EDIT: It's also nice that I can utilize logic symbols of nearly any number of inputs, as well as designate 'not' inputs where needed. This greatly simplifies the schematic. Normally if designing a non-CPLD circuit, a designer would be trying to minimize the number of unique IC chips required, thereby ending up with a smaller IC count while sacrificing clarity (e.g., adding more discrete components and maybe mickey-mouse logic to make up for it).

 

So the idea is to default to a 1K mirroring mode upon power-up, and I added a bit more logic in conjunction with this to disallow changing the 8K ROM to RAM Swap latch if mirroring is presently enabled. And unlike my previous version (V1.4), as extra insurance I disable any extra RAM addressing beyond the 1K base of $6000 from enabling the RAM's chip enable pin if mirroring is active. So first order of business when an SGM game is started is to determine if any extra RAM does exist beyond the stock CV's 1K, and if not then it can activate 24K of the SRAM's 32K capacity. When this has been done, the ROM/RAM Swap feature is now also available for selection of an additional 8K under the BIOS ROM to fully utilize the SRAM's 32K memory footprint.

 

So what was happening in the previous V1.4 CPLD core, is that some games were just better at doing an SGM check, being much more thorough in the process. But when using @nanochess's great little SGM test utility my board was passing, however quite a few games were not happy with what I was doing, or lacking in the 1K start-up version. This made me fallback to looking like a 24K Adam when powering-up, which most all of the games were much happier about. I could have left it as a 24K Adam, but that's not my way 

[Atari Nut]

Michael, I am really impressed with what you have accomplished here.  I got to say, I would rather have one of these than a new ColecoVision (I have been looking).  I hope The Brewing Academy will offer these like they offered the Atari 576NUC+.

[+mytek]

7 minutes ago, Atari Nut said:

I hope The Brewing Academy will offer these like they offered the Atari 576NUC+.

In a couple of weeks I'll be sending a board set to MacRorie over at The Brewing Academy for him to evaluate. And a completely assembled one will be going to a guy I have working with from these forums for beta testing. So if all goes well maybe in a couple of months at least a partial DIY kit might be available from TBA. Don't know about a fully assembled unit, too early to really know at this point.

 

Once again let me remind everyone that this will be offered in NTSC only.

[Atari Nut]

This is good news.  Keep up the excellent work!

[+mytek]

The biggest obstacle to a fully assembled version is the enclosure. Although I do have blank case STL files (with no front or back panel holes) from the 576NUC+ project thanks to @Mr Robot, those will need some pretty extensive modifications to make it suitable for this system. I don't know if I'm up for that challenge, and Mr Robot is pretty busy in his normal non-Atari life to be able to do it.

 

Here's a link to the STLs he provided that can be used for anything freely: https://ataribits.weebly.com/uploads/5/8/8/6/58865739/576nuc_case_3-26-2022.zip

 

Edit: Mr Robot's logo inside the bottom part of the case should be left intact.

[Atari Nut]

40 minutes ago, mytek said:

The biggest obstacle to a fully assembled version is the enclosure. Although I do have blank case STL files (with no front or back panel holes) from the 576NUC+ project thanks to @Mr Robot, those will need some pretty extensive modifications to make it suitable for this system. I don't know if I'm up for that challenge, and Mr Robot is pretty busy in his normal non-Atari life to be able to do it.

 

Here's a link to the STLs he provided that can be used for anything freely: https://ataribits.weebly.com/uploads/5/8/8/6/58865739/576nuc_case_3-26-2022.zip

 

Edit: Mr Robot's logo inside the bottom part of the case should be left intact.

Thanks for this info.  Mr. Robot did a great job on the 576NUC case.  Perhaps there are other talented individuals here that would be interested in creating the cases.  You mentioned above an onboard SGM.  Does this mean this can run SGM games without an SGM attached?

[+mytek]

4 hours ago, Atari Nut said:

Thanks for this info.  Mr. Robot did a great job on the 576NUC case.  Perhaps there are other talented individuals here that would be interested in creating the cases.

Yes Mr Robot's design credentials really shine in the 576NUC+ cases, and I'd really like to see that level of detail applied to a case for the CV-NUC+. Originally I was shooting for making this small enough to fit without modification other than adding the appropriate holes, but the CV-NUC+MSX Module ended up being taller than I had wanted, and now requires that the case be taller as well. Also one of the existing screw mounts gets interfered with by that module, so that needs to be accommodated.

 

4 hours ago, Atari Nut said:

You mentioned above an onboard SGM.  Does this mean this can run SGM games without an SGM attached?

Actually the name has been changed, but the new CV-NUC+MSX Module does bring full SGM compatibility all on its own.