AtariAge Store Last Chance Sale!

[Kurt_Woloch]

OK, I'll chime in here as the co-creator of Baby Pac-Man for the Atari 7800 which is also going to be pulled...

 

First, as far as I remember, the copyright situation of Baby Pac-Man is such that Pac-Man is a Namco property, but Baby Pac-Man was produced by Midway without Namco's consent... and in this case, unlike with Ms. Pac-Man and Jr. Pac-Man, they didn't even use Namco's graphics and sound hardware, but also none of their codebase, which means that the original Baby Pac-Man was made from scratch (except for the hardware - for video, they used an off-the-shelf TMS9918A video chip as used in the TI-99, Colecovision, MSX and others, and the sound is probably derived from their other pinball machines). As was the 7800 version... which is totally different from a hardware perspective anyway. And then there may be companies who have explicit rights to do conversions of those games. So the question would be WHO exactly might sue Albert in this case. Could it be Namco because they own the Pac-Man property? Or Midway who made the original Baby Pac-Man? Or even Atari who originally got the rights to port Pac-Man games to their (and other) systems and, thus, might fight everyone else making Pac-Man games for video game consoles?

 

This aside, I think the situation of retro-gaming has changed over the last decades. I got into it back in 1998 with the proliferation of the Internet (and started coding an Atari 2600 game right away which never got completed), and back then, while the retro systems were old, they were mostly still working. By now the things are 40 or more years old and start falling apart by themselves even if they haven't been used. To put this into context, my father died in March, and I'm now preparing to move into his flat and giving up my own, so I'm in the process of cleaning out. Since many devices don't really work anymore, I'm testing them all out and found that many of them died silently without having been used... even an unopened Sega Game Gear which I won in 1992 was unpacked and doesn't work anymore. Same applies for the TI-99's PAL modulator and a Philips G7000 which still puts out an RF signal, but only black video and sound. The Atari 2600 still works, but strangely, the "fruit" in Pac-Man seemed in an off position when I tried it. And those systems are one of the few ways you can even get an RF signal since the TV standard itself has changed to digital.

 

Also, while in 1998 CD's still had to reach their sales peak, and it was still common to record TV shows on VHS tapes, the production of VHS recorders has now ceased I think since 2016, and at least Sony, the co-inventor of the CD, doesn't make any CD players anymore. This means that everything has moved away from physical media, which to me includes physical cartridges for game systems. I for one won't get any new cartridges for my TI-99 and G7000 systems because the systems themselves have died, but I still do enjoy playing TI-99 games in emulation every now and then. And many popular games are still available in one or the other form. You can buy "Burger Time" for about €8 from Nintendo's Arcade Archives and have it sent to your Switch (and as far as I can see, it's the emulated Arcade version, not the NES version), and while it's become difficult to locate the arcade ROM of "Elevator Action" that works with the current version of MAME, you can still readily play the NES version of it online without having to download anything... as well as most of the TI-99's library, except maybe for some obscure BASIC games like "Crazy Man" by Rex Soft, but that's a different story...

 

So I have no doubt that playing old games now can be seen in a different light than 20 years ago. For many of the old systems still working, probably some repair work would have to be done which for many might not be worth it because the newer systems are better anyway, and the really good games can still be experienced in a different form. And while back in 1998 I was amazed about being able to play all those old arcade games, many of which had meanwhile been pulled from the arcades, in their original form (i.e. rather than ported) in emulation, and the possibilities of programming for those old systems which previously you could only buy cartridges for, it's all become perfectly normal. In previous times, a point of porting arcade games to home systems was to make those games available for home players (and of course make some money while doing so). Nowadays people can in many cases play those arcade games in their original form, so there is no need to make new versions for old consoles which even might not work themselves anymore. Except for "sports" or "collector" reasons... that it's a sport for some people to make the ports as perfect as possible, or people collect for the one or other system or want to have games for THEIR system which they are proud of.

 

So if physical copies of ports for old systems are going away (and remember, they are only going away here at Atariage as a central seller), I also see this as a logical consequence from the systems themselves slowly dying, and from physical media going away in general. As such, I can fully understand this situation and this decision.

[Thomas Jentzsch]

1 hour ago, Kurt_Woloch said:

Except for "sports" or "collector" reasons... that it's a sport for some people to make the ports as perfect as possible

I suppose that is a main reason not only for me.

1 hour ago, Kurt_Woloch said:

So if physical copies of ports for old systems are going away (and remember, they are only going away here at Atariage as a central seller), I also see this as a logical consequence from the systems themselves slowly dying, and from physical media going away in general. As such, I can fully understand this situation and this decision.

I don't think this was part of the reasons. People can quite easily sell ROMs without AtariAge, so Albert would not give up one of his major "assets" (producing high quality, physical releases) that easily.

Edited June 25, 2023 by Thomas Jentzsch

[Mord]

10 hours ago, Kurt_Woloch said:

First, as far as I remember, the copyright situation of Baby Pac-Man is such that Pac-Man is a Namco property, but Baby Pac-Man was produced by Midway without Namco's consent... and in this case, unlike with Ms. Pac-Man and Jr. Pac-Man, they didn't even use Namco's graphics and sound hardware, but also none of their codebase, which means that the original Baby Pac-Man was made from scratch (except for the hardware - for video, they used an off-the-shelf TMS9918A video chip as used in the TI-99, Colecovision, MSX and others, and the sound is probably derived from their other pinball machines). As was the 7800 version... which is totally different from a hardware perspective anyway. And then there may be companies who have explicit rights to do conversions of those games. So the question would be WHO exactly might sue Albert in this case. Could it be Namco because they own the Pac-Man property? Or Midway who made the original Baby Pac-Man? Or even Atari who originally got the rights to port Pac-Man games to their (and other) systems and, thus, might fight everyone else making Pac-Man games for video game consoles?

 

I'm not a lawyer or anything but with that kind of situation you'd probably have 2 potential sources of lawsuits for different reasons.  Without removing all references to "Pac Man" you'd be open to Trademark issues with Namco.  Even after renaming Baby Pac Man to something like 'Little Yellow Pie Guy', you'll still have recreated an exact copy of Midway's game, so Midway would probably be able to sue for copyright issues there - for the same reasons Nintendo could sue someone for trying to make a clone of Super Mario Bros even if they didn't call it Super Mario Bros.  Atari wouldn't enter into this equation unless they still had the rights to port Pac-Man games to their systems. (Pretty sure those types of things are time limited agreements though and probably wouldn't be a consideration.)

 

 

[Jinks]

Will there be some platform where all ports will be sold? 

 

[Thomas Jentzsch]

1 hour ago, Jinks said:

Will there be some platform where all ports will be sold? 

Much too early to say today. Probably not.

[juansolo]

My only worry is if they get purged from the forums... I don't see AA as a community lasting long if that were to happen.

[Thomas Jentzsch]

44 minutes ago, juansolo said:

My only worry is if they get purged from the forums... I don't see AA as a community lasting long if that were to happen.

If an IP owner makes Albert aware of a post containing an "illegal" ROM, he must delete it the post (or the ROM) too. That's how it works in the EU, I suppose it is similar in the USA.

[juansolo]

Legally I completely understand that. But what if people who wrote conversions stop writing games because of this? Bob pretty much single-handedly brought the 7800 back from the dead with his games. Ultimately I got into the 7800 because of the homebrew scene and have set about restoring machines to play them. There has to be a bit of give and AA is probably the best example of a sensible middle ground where the homebrew scene was flourishing. I see that delicate balance being messed with and I'm worried about the future.

Edited June 26, 2023 by juansolo

[Thomas Jentzsch]

2 minutes ago, juansolo said:

...I'm worried about the future.

You are not alone. But we have to live with the existing reality. 

[Silver Back]

The 7800 homebrew community has been thriving and it should continue to thrive.  Realistically companies that own the rights to IPs that have been ported to the 7800 may have taken notice ( I'm thinking with Popeye, Warner and the Big N probably noticed) and their rights and request have to be respected.   But there will always be people making ports and there will always be ways to obtain those ports. 

 

I would highly doubt AtariAge is going anywhere, and I highly doubt the community of creative and passionate individuals are going to give up completely and disband.   Even when Albert calls it quits, he seems like the kind of guy that would want his creation to continue on in the proper hands for the future. 

 

I highly doubt this is doom and gloom and I highly doubt the incredible developers will be deterred from pursuing their hobby. 

 

Also, thank you to all the programmers, talented people, musicians, testers and everybody for your hard work on these games.  They are and will always be awesome! 

[holygrailvideogames.com]

Did AtariAge ever sell Sirius & Plutos?  I know that CPUWIZ sold some many years ago.  I don't see either one on the last chance sale list and I can't remember if either were ever in the store.  There are so many games that I would like to buy but I currently have over $1,500 in games in my cart.  I need to cut my list way back.

[+GoldenWheels]

My issue, strictly speaking for the 7800, is that it seems like only NOW is the originals scene REALLY picking up for the 7800. I am not trying to look down on other original efforts for the 7800 BUT whether it is Rikki and Vikki, Knight Guy, any of the "Dragons" series, I think anyone following the system for years would admit that the many of the older efforts were NOT to this level, and that the game has been upped in the last 2-3 years.

 

The reason this is worrisome to me is...JMO BUT....I feel like it was the famous arcade ports that got the 7800 here (many by one talented dude), where there WAS actually a "scene".....and the ground beneath that new scene is not that solid yet. Without the converted, big name games....will more people who are sick of NES and Sega decided to collect 7800s now?

 

It's a big hit no matter how it gets sliced.

[poconojo]

This is the country we live in. The little guy always gets screwed! All these games were forgotten about since the 90s and now all of a sudden its a big deal. It is a small group, if you put it into perspective, that really play and collect these games. From what I have read, no one is making a fortune with homebrews. It is just another play on the little guy!

[+H454]

Thanks @Albert. This sale killed my wallet.

I couldn't resist after I saw the AA subscriber discount stacked on it.

[+jeremiahjt]

35 minutes ago, H454 said:

Thanks @Albert. This sale killed my wallet.

I couldn't resist after I saw the AA subscriber discount stacked on it.

Wait, you got the subscriber discount? I did not get it.

[+H454]

Just now, jeremiahjt said:

Wait, you got the subscriber discount? I did not get it.

I just logged into the store site and hit refresh on item pages and the prices dropped.

[+groundtrooper]

37 minutes ago, jeremiahjt said:

Wait, you got the subscriber discount? I did not get it.

You ALWAYS have to be logged in to your account if you expect to get your subscriber discount.

I was also pleasantly surprised when I went back and checked my invoice and saw the stacked discount prices. 

[+SmittyB]

There's a subscriber discount? Can't say anything changes when I'm logged in to the store or not.

[tkarner]

6 hours ago, holygrailvideogames.com said:

Did AtariAge ever sell Sirius & Plutos?

Check gooddealgames.com.

[carlsson]

7 minutes ago, SmittyB said:

There's a subscriber discount?

Do you have a yearly subscription or a shorter time period?

https://forums.atariage.com/subscriptions/

[+groundtrooper]

6 minutes ago, SmittyB said:

There's a subscriber discount? Can't say anything changes when I'm logged in to the store or not.

If you are not logged in you get the default price. 

 

 

If you are logged in and your subscriber account is linked to your AA Store Account you should see this price. 

 

[+H454]

7 minutes ago, SmittyB said:

There's a subscriber discount? Can't say anything changes when I'm logged in to the store or not.

You may need to message @Albert and have it verified / activated.

[+H454]

2 minutes ago, carlsson said:

Do you have a yearly subscription or a shorter time period?

https://forums.atariage.com/subscriptions/

The discount is for 1 or two year subs.

Also, the discount pretty much covers the cost of shipping (at least on my $170 order).

 

So, any one reading this should consider the discount a nice bonus for supporting AA, instead the reason to get a $30 subscription.

[+SmittyB]

10 minutes ago, carlsson said:

Do you have a yearly subscription or a shorter time period?

I renewed my 2 year subscription back in May so would presumably be covered.

 

11 minutes ago, groundtrooper said:

If you are logged in and your subscriber account is linked to your AA Store Account you should see this price. 

Yep definitely not seeing that. Bummer, I might have missed out on the discount when I last ordered something before the UK import rules changed.

 

13 minutes ago, H454 said:

You may need to message @Albert and have it verified / activated.

Yeah I'll send him a message. I'm still dithering over what to get with the budget I have.

[Shawn]

7 hours ago, holygrailvideogames.com said:

Did AtariAge ever sell Sirius & Plutos?  I know that CPUWIZ sold some many years ago.  I don't see either one on the last chance sale list and I can't remember if either were ever in the store.  There are so many games that I would like to buy but I currently have over $1,500 in games in my cart.  I need to cut my list way back.

 

I'm sure you will do well scalping them on ebay as your track record shows you're sure to do.