AtariAge Store Last Chance Sale!

[AtariLeaf]

I only have one non port homebrew and it's euchre. Fantastic BTW. One on my want list though is doggone it. Very interesting original game that I've heard great things about so the upside for me is more gaming dollars can, in the future, go towards exploring these titles.

 

BTW is avalanche the only champ game to escape the purge? I didn't see it on the last chance list despite it being a port

Edited June 24, 2023 by AtariLeaf

[carlsson]

So 80% of the best selling games in the AtariAge Store has up till now been ports? I tried to correlate it with the number of votes in the Atari Homebrew Awards:

 

2020

Atari 2600 Best Original Game = 118 members voted

Atari 2600 Best Port = 115 members

 

2021

Atari 2600 Best Original game = 115 members

Atari 2600 Best Port = 112 members

Atari 7800 Best Original game = 102 votes
Atari 7800 Best Port = 98 votes

 

2022

Atari 2600 Best Original game = 105 members

Atari 2600 Best Port = 110 members

Atari 7800 Best Original game = 72 members

Atari 7800 Best Port = 96 members

 

I don't know on which criteria people participate in the voting for best homebrews, but if it would be a popularity contest based on sales numbers, there would be far more votes for best port than for best original game?

[Thomas Jentzsch]

1 minute ago, carlsson said:

I don't know on which criteria people participate in the voting for best homebrews, but if it would be a popularity contest based on sales numbers, there would be far more votes for best port than for best original game?

Why should that correlate?

[carlsson]

Dunno, perhaps the sales stats on AtariAge are so close that the top 50 games only are a few copies each above the next 50 so while it might look like the top list is dominated by ports, it is just by a slight margin. In that case the numbers for the votes in the awards still somehow correlate, as I don't think every customer will take part of the voting, as well that the awards cover more publishers than AtariAge. Yet in the video you linked to, later he mentions there are good original games, stays silent for a number of seconds to think but can't name a single one.

[Thomas Jentzsch]

23 minutes ago, carlsson said:

Dunno, perhaps the sales stats on AtariAge are so close that the top 50 games only are a few copies each above the next 50 so while it might look like the top list is dominated by ports, it is just by a slight margin. ,

That's not the case. But why should the number of votes correlate with the number of sales?

[carlsson]

I mean in order to vote for the best game, perhaps you should have had the opportunity to play some of them? The other explanation is that 80% of the customers on the AtariAge Store are not active on the AtariAge forum, or at least don't bother about the awards.

[Thomas Jentzsch]

3 minutes ago, carlsson said:

I mean in order to vote for the best game, perhaps you should have had the opportunity to play some of them? 

I play ALL games before voting. There are ROMs and emulators, you know? 😉

[+splendidnut]

1 hour ago, carlsson said:

In order to use porting of well-known games as a benchmark about each system also implies you limit yourself to the original hardware of said system. No memory expansions, accelerators, graphics enhancers etc?

Just to clarify, I used the phrase "compare and contrast" to imply a general comparison, not to imply a well-defined, measured one, such as what "benchmark" would entail.

[Albert]

12 minutes ago, carlsson said:

The other explanation is that 80% of the customers on the AtariAge Store are not active on the AtariAge forum, or at least don't bother about the awards.

Probably a lot higher than 80%, based on sales of the games versus how many votes those same games receive for the ZPH awards. 
 

 ..Al

[carlsson]

Perhaps last time around, but in the 2021 awards (on the 2600 side), RobotWar:2684 did receive 67/112 = 60% of the votes with Lady Bug Arcade right behind at 32/112 = 28.5%. Popeye7800 is one of few to exceed that percentage at 70% for the 2021 awards.

 

[Thomas Jentzsch]

Either I am stupid or something is wrong with your logic. 

[+DrVenkman]

2 hours ago, Captain Cozmos said:

A few of these fly by night companies like 1UP, the Flashback series, decided to monetize this stuff.

Arcade1Up is hardly a "fly by night" company - they have produced dozens of different mini-arcade cabinet systems, barcade style tabletops, a couple cocktail table style units, and even a mini-pinball table for a good number of years now. They have licensed the IP from Lucasfilm/Disney for the Star Wars titles and Tron; from whomever own the Simpsons for a Simpsons cab; same for Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles; NAMCO for Pac-games; Williams for Joust, Defender, etc. You may not like them but many tens of thousands of people -maybe more -certainly do. I have two of their mini-cabs (Star Wars and the Tempest-themed Atari Legends cab), plus a barcade Galaga/Galaga '88. Tons of fun and plenty of nostalgia. And to me - and many others - way more fun than emulating on a regular old PC.  But none of their cabs could be sold without licensing deals in place with the companies that own - and still very actively make money! - from these titles, characters, images, sounds, etc. 

 

The Flashback series from ATGames are of hit-or-miss quality but they ARE licensed products, mass produced and distributed world-wide. Again, you may not like the company, but what they do takes money, effort and coordination - hardly "fly by night."

[8th lutz]

2 hours ago, carlsson said:

I mean in order to vote for the best game, perhaps you should have had the opportunity to play some of them? The other explanation is that 80% of the customers on the AtariAge Store are not active on the AtariAge forum, or at least don't bother about the awards.

I can tell you that the percentage is likely higher for not active on the forum.

 

My younger brother buys games from the Atariage store, but never signed up to be a member of the forums to my knowledge. 

Edited June 24, 2023 by 8th lutz

[+jeremiahjt]

I am active on the forum and I buy from the store, but I rarely vote. Most of the time I have not played one single game in a category. Now if I have played something and I think it is worthy, I will vote, but even then I have never played everything up for an award.

[JagChris]

5 hours ago, carlsson said:

Let me quote him, with what bothers me in bold text:

 

"You can still buy homebrew games from AtariAge. They haven't stopped selling homebrew games, they're going to continue selling homebrew games, but the problem is that they're only going to be original games, originally programmed games. If it is a port of another arcade game where a licensing conflict could occur, Albert's not going to distribute it, he's just not."

 

With this wording, it seems like he thinks original games not previously seen is a problem, shelf fodder, something that takes place on behalf of the ports. I find that equally troublesome as the other side of the topic we're discussing.

 

He may not have meant it like that. He may have meant what you may have looked for in the past may not be there in the future. Which is arcade ports that may or not be licensed.

 

I could see myself wording it like that, not meaning to imply original titles are a 'problem'. Then realizing from replies later I maybe should have put more thought into the wording.

[carlsson]

I understand he didn't read from a prepared script, but the sentence works just as well without mentioning a problem: "They haven't stopped selling homebrew games, they're going to continue selling homebrew games, but they're only going to be original games, originally programmed games."

[JagChris]

1 minute ago, carlsson said:

I understand he didn't read from a prepared script, but the sentence works just as well without mentioning a problem: "They haven't stopped selling homebrew games, they're going to continue selling homebrew games, but they're only going to be original games, originally programmed games."

Understood. 

 

There are several of these games I won't be able to get now. Our selection will be cut down in the future. Like I said I can see me thoughtlessly wording that as a problem. These latest games are a huge reason why I got a 7800 for the first time last December.Me missing out on Popeye or Wizard of WOR would have been a problem. 😂

 

He may have meant it as a snub but also not. I wouldn't have. 

[+Gemintronic]

In the end we're not going to convince those who throw shade at homebrew.  The best we can do is  thank Albert and enjoy a long term win.

[Captain Cozmos]

3 hours ago, DrVenkman said:

Arcade1Up is hardly a "fly by night" company - they have produced dozens of different mini-arcade cabinet systems, barcade style tabletops, a couple cocktail table style units, and even a mini-pinball table for a good number of years now. They have licensed the IP from Lucasfilm/Disney for the Star Wars titles and Tron; from whomever own the Simpsons for a Simpsons cab; same for Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles; NAMCO for Pac-games; Williams for Joust, Defender, etc. You may not like them but many tens of thousands of people -maybe more -certainly do. I have two of their mini-cabs (Star Wars and the Tempest-themed Atari Legends cab), plus a barcade Galaga/Galaga '88. Tons of fun and plenty of nostalgia. And to me - and many others - way more fun than emulating on a regular old PC.  But none of their cabs could be sold without licensing deals in place with the companies that own - and still very actively make money! - from these titles, characters, images, sounds, etc. 

 

The Flashback series from ATGames are of hit-or-miss quality but they ARE licensed products, mass produced and distributed world-wide. Again, you may not like the company, but what they do takes money, effort and coordination - hardly "fly by night."

I had a long conversation with the inventor of the first Atari flashback where you could convert it to accept cartridges.
Those who took over the system changed his model to a simple FPGA and a crap design to be cheap and mass produced in China.
1 Up is nothing more than a mame project mass produced.  The games may be licensed but all of it is to capitalize on Nostalgia for the over 40 man child.

 

All they did was take a raspberry pi or equivalent, shove in a case with 1 or 2 games and sell for a small fortune when people have been doing it for free for years.

Go pick up a Pandora for far cheaper off Amazon and you can have thousands of games at a higher resolution.

In that respect I call them fly by night.

If I can play the lowest resolution of Atari 2600 games in 4k on a television then why on earth would I buy a 1up or Flashback.
Maybe this is why you can find these devices at Good Will stores all over the nation.

My computer has the ability to play any game or emulate anything back to the 1970's so it even makes no sense to buy a console much less a 1up.
 

Edited June 24, 2023 by Captain Cozmos

[Captain Cozmos]

23 minutes ago, Gemintronic said:

In the end we're not going to convince those who throw shade at homebrew.  The best we can do is  thank Albert and enjoy a long term win.

I enjoy Atari Age, and Albert's problems have nothing to do with me, but I would like to know why the change of heart after all these years.

Was there some threat of legal action or just a winding down of the website.
I would hate for Atari Age to be closed down when this is a hang out for most of my computer friends.

[+eebuckeye]

My completely uninformed guess...

 

AtariAge will partner with Atari to release games and Atari does not want any slight possibility of copyright issues therefore he has to get rid of them before it is announced.

[Captain Cozmos]

6 hours ago, carlsson said:

BurgerTime itself is a tricky case since it has a very specific game mechanism. VTech once made a clone for the CreatiVision called Locomotive which has the exact same mechanism, but instead of producing hamburgers, you create a train set with a number of wagons. I'm not saying it is any improvement over the original. While VTech did get a letter from Atari/Namco about their game Crazy Pucker/Crazy Chewie infringing the rights to Pac-Man (just like e.g. Magnavox/Philips and Commodore did get), I don't know if Data East ever found out or cared about this obscure Hong Kong system with some presence in Australia and parts of Europe.

 

In order to use porting of well-known games as a benchmark about each system also implies you limit yourself to the original hardware of said system. No memory expansions, accelerators, graphics enhancers etc?

Here is a thought.

I made a game called Them's be Fight'n Cars which is similar to Dodge'em but with Missiles.  It is almost completed but it was mocked by another member.
It was a bear to make on the Colecovision and I created a ton of very complicated routines all from start to finish.  No copying others work except for the concept.

Yet, Dodge'em from Atari is nothing but Car Wars on the TI-99 which is a copy from Heads up at the Arcade...Who owns it?  Don't know.  But I got the impression that nobody wanted it.  So, it's on the back burner.

Original ideas after 50 years of video games is hard to come by despite I having a few.

I have an idea to roll a ball on balanced girders with the concept of it painting the surface.  You have to do all of that before the time runs out.
Now, is that Miner 2049'er?  Am I going to be sued by Bill Hogue or whatever his name is?
I contacted him to get a license for the sequel Bounty Bob Strikes Back, he answered one email after I went through his brother then blew me off after that so I gave up.

Some of these people want way too much money for a dead game 40 years later so they can squeeze an ounce more out of phone apps and under performing flashback devices.
What you end up with is people skirting the law and hope no one notices.

Edited June 25, 2023 by Captain Cozmos

[BrianC]

1 hour ago, Captain Cozmos said:

Yet, Dodge'em from Atari is nothing but Car Wars on the TI-99 which is a copy from Heads up at the Arcade...Who owns it?  Don't know.  But I got the impression that nobody wanted it.  So, it's on the back burner.

You mean Head-On? AFAIK Sega owns it. I know they made a version on Saturn and Tecmo's GB port was licensed from Sega, at least in Japan (it was renamed to Power Racer in the US). 

Edited June 25, 2023 by BrianC

[Mord]

1 hour ago, Captain Cozmos said:

Original ideas after 50 years of video games is hard to come by despite I having a few.

 

 

You seem to be confusing genres with actual game ideas/copyright/etc.

 

You can make a car fighting game no problem. You can't call it the same as an already existing game if it's trademarked of course, and you can't go copying the graphics, level designs, etc.  Draw your own sprites for the cars, try to be creative with the opponents (ie: don't make a 1-to-1 conversion for the ones in some other game), start fresh with your own levels, and there's no problem.

 

The types of games Al is removing from the store are ports (As best as the target system can allow at least) of existing games. Some renamed to avoid trademark issues, but otherwise try to be the original game.

 

While Al can clarify this, I'm assuming the removals are only for the store. There's likely not going to be anything to stop devs on the forums from doing as they've done til now. If they want a cart release of their port though they'll just have to find another source and I'm sure there are plenty of alternatives.

 

[Corby]

Well anyways, I ordered baby pacman, pacman arcade, halo, and turbo!