Does anyone actually pay $20 for ROMs?

[dwh]

We all paid $65 for brand new boxed games back in the day. So $20 seems reasonable to me for a rom.

Remember the companies owned the rights to those roms and very few people had the computer set up to copy or even display the roms, 

so it is very neat that we all have our own computers that can do that now. So I see the roms being $20 for a set number of years, then $10, then $5, then free. This has already happened 

with all the old AA game releases starting from the year 2000.(really ,it has been that long!)

It is still amazing to me, that the new boxed games we get today are $45 to $60 ,considering it is 40 years later.

[Trebor]

On 11/10/2023 at 12:56 AM, dwh said:

We all paid $65 for brand new boxed games back in the day. So $20 seems reasonable to me for a rom.

Remember the companies owned the rights to those roms and very few people had the computer set up to copy or even display the roms, 

so it is very neat that we all have our own computers that can do that now. So I see the roms being $20 for a set number of years, then $10, then $5, then free. This has already happened 

with all the old AA game releases starting from the year 2000.(really ,it has been that long!)

It is still amazing to me, that the new boxed games we get today are $45 to $60 ,considering it is 40 years later.

  Exactly:

When put into perspective and was an option, ~$6.50 for a fully working, excellent quality, digital 2600 game in 1983.   

Extremely reasonable to charge $20.00 in 2023, and well worth the purchase.

 

Does anyone actually pay $20 for ROMs? Yes.

[Lord Thag]

Will I pay $20? Yes, but only if it's an A-tier game I will play the heck out of. Which Champ Games entire catalog qualifies for. I have several of their releases on cart and they never make it back on the shelf, but sit in a multi selector unit that plugs into my VCS because when I play Atari, they're usually first on the list. They're *that* good. 

 

That said, I haven't bought the ROMS from Champ games because I'd MUCH rather own a physical cart, so I am waiting to see if those do appear for sale on their site first. 

[+johnnywc]

1 hour ago, Lord Thag said:

Will I pay $20? Yes, but only if it's an A-tier game I will play the heck out of. Which Champ Games entire catalog qualifies for. I have several of their releases on cart and they never make it back on the shelf, but sit in a multi selector unit that plugs into my VCS because when I play Atari, they're usually first on the list. They're *that* good. 

 

That said, I haven't bought the ROMS from Champ games because I'd MUCH rather own a physical cart, so I am waiting to see if those do appear for sale on their site first. 

Thanks for the kind words!  We have spent the last couple months sorting out the publishing for our own games (boxes, manuals, labels, posters, etc) and all of the changes associated with our website and plan on going 'live' for cartridge orders in the next week or so, adding Turbo Arcade and Elevator Agent.  Incidentally, both games are > 32K and use the Melody board (ARM chip) so neither ROM will work on the Harmony or Harmony Encore, so if you want to play either of those games on a real system the only option will be to buy the physical cartridge.  @batari Fred is working on a solution to either offer an expansion module to the Harmony or a new Harmony-type cart to support these larger games that will hopefully be available sometime next year. 🤞

[Recycled]

I'm considering buying some Champ ROMS in the near future. Going to try some demos this weekend and make sure they work for me first. Bought the Lady Bug cart back in 2006. I still play it.

[BIGHMW]

John Champeau @johnnywc TAKE A BOW!!!

 

I can't seem to even want to go to my 5200 hardly anymore because of your terrific games you and your design team came up with including the three I have taken up the most, Galagon, Qyx, and Gorf Arcade, I could name a few more but these are my three favorites in Champ Games' lineup, just absolute masterpieces. I know that I only have the demos to all the titles (not just those three) but I'd gladly pay the $20.00 for the full ROMs for these (as ESPN used to call them) INSTANT CLASSICS!!! QUALITY STUFF!!!  

[Lord Thag]

16 hours ago, johnnywc said:

Thanks for the kind words!  We have spent the last couple months sorting out the publishing for our own games (boxes, manuals, labels, posters, etc) and all of the changes associated with our website and plan on going 'live' for cartridge orders in the next week or so, adding Turbo Arcade and Elevator Agent.  Incidentally, both games are > 32K and use the Melody board (ARM chip) so neither ROM will work on the Harmony or Harmony Encore, so if you want to play either of those games on a real system the only option will be to buy the physical cartridge.  @batari Fred is working on a solution to either offer an expansion module to the Harmony or a new Harmony-type cart to support these larger games that will hopefully be available sometime next year. 🤞

That's great to hear. I've been away from here for a bit, didn't realize Fred was making a harmony expansion either. All great stuff. I'll be ordering several carts from you when you go live. Had no idea you did Elevator Agent either, I freaking love that game.

[+johnnywc]

On 11/30/2023 at 10:34 AM, Lord Thag said:

That's great to hear. I've been away from here for a bit, didn't realize Fred was making a harmony expansion either. All great stuff. I'll be ordering several carts from you when you go live. Had no idea you did Elevator Agent either, I freaking love that game.

Thank you!  We have officially gone live and both Elevator Agent and Turbo Arcade are now available in our Champ Games store in physical cartridges and digital ROMs (with an option to buy both at a discount), plus ten previous releases too!

 

Oh, and we also reduced the cost for most of our ROMs so now the highest price is now $15, so the perhaps this thread should be renamed to "Will anyone actually pay $15 for a ROMs?"   

[Lord Thag]

9 minutes ago, johnnywc said:

Thank you!  We have officially gone live and both Elevator Agent and Turbo Arcade are now available in our Champ Games store in physical cartridges and digital ROMs (with an option to buy both at a discount), plus ten previous releases too!

 

Oh, and we also reduced the cost for most of our ROMs so now the highest price is now $15, so the perhaps this thread should be renamed to "Will anyone actually pay $15 for a ROMs?"   

Great. I get paid on friday, will order some carts then. Much appreciated!

[MustardCowboy]

On 12/4/2023 at 11:28 AM, johnnywc said:

Thank you!  We have officially gone live and both Elevator Agent and Turbo Arcade are now available in our Champ Games store in physical cartridges and digital ROMs (with an option to buy both at a discount), plus ten previous releases too!

 

Oh, and we also reduced the cost for most of our ROMs so now the highest price is now $15, so the perhaps this thread should be renamed to "Will anyone actually pay $15 for a ROMs?"   

I saw this thread earlier this week and immediately proceeded to buy the RobotWar game. And then, after playing it, I proceeded to order most of the other Champ Game ROMs. 🙂  The coding for these games must be on the Gandalf level - I just don't see how these games are even possible on the Atari 2600! I love it! 

 

So to keep my comment on topic, I apparently am very comfortable buying $15 ROMs, and probably would've bought these particular games for $20 as well.

 

Question: What are some other amazing homebrew Arcade ports for the Atari 2600? Specifically, I'd love to be able to purchase ROMs rather than carts, as I play my games with Stella with an Arcade joystick panel. I know most have been removed from AtariAge, but are there any others like Champ Games who set up their own storefront?

 

Scott

 

[Thomas Jentzsch]

1 hour ago, MustardCowboy said:

The coding for these games must be on the Gandalf level - I just don't see how these games are even possible on the Atari 2600! I love it! 

Powerful extra hardware combined with a talented development team.

[Warboss Gegguz]

I was totally down to buy the Champ conversions of Robotron, Galaga, Gorf, and Wizard of Wor. They're genuinely fantastic.

The only issue was I have a 2600+, not a 2600 or Retron so it would be useless atm outside of Stella. And if I'm already playing on my PC, I can just boot up Namco Museum, Midway Treasures, or MAME and just play the actual arcade games.

If the 2600+ does ever become compatible with them though, absolutely.

[+johnnywc]

10 hours ago, MustardCowboy said:

I saw this thread earlier this week and immediately proceeded to buy the RobotWar game. And then, after playing it, I proceeded to order most of the other Champ Game ROMs. 🙂  The coding for these games must be on the Gandalf level - I just don't see how these games are even possible on the Atari 2600! I love it! 

Thanks for the kind words!  A 70hmz ARM chip and 40 years of experience developing video games helps too.   

10 hours ago, MustardCowboy said:

So to keep my comment on topic, I apparently am very comfortable buying $15 ROMs, and probably would've bought these particular games for $20 as well.

Cool, you can send me a check for the difference.   Seriously though - thanks so much for the support!    

10 hours ago, MustardCowboy said:

Question: What are some other amazing homebrew Arcade ports for the Atari 2600? Specifically, I'd love to be able to purchase ROMs rather than carts, as I play my games with Stella with an Arcade joystick panel. I know most have been removed from AtariAge, but are there any others like Champ Games who set up their own storefront?

 

As of right now, I think only Champ Games is selling ROMs but I know AtariAge is planning on adding this to their store at some point.  

8 hours ago, Thomas Jentzsch said:

Powerful extra hardware combined with a talented development team.

Aww, thanks TJ!  You've had a hand in a few of the Champ Games too!   

8 hours ago, Warboss Gegguz said:

I was totally down to buy the Champ conversions of Robotron, Galaga, Gorf, and Wizard of Wor. They're genuinely fantastic.

Thanks!

8 hours ago, Warboss Gegguz said:

The only issue was I have a 2600+, not a 2600 or Retron so it would be useless atm outside of Stella. And if I'm already playing on my PC, I can just boot up Namco Museum, Midway Treasures, or MAME and just play the actual arcade games.

If the 2600+ does ever become compatible with them though, absolutely.

Makes sense ... I wish the 2600+ had the capability but hopefully they figure it out someday.  It would be a win-win for everyone!  🤞

[Jetboot Jack]

Woo Hoo!

 

Physical carts and digital ROM files ordered of Turbo and Elevator Action - @johnnywc cannot wait!!!

 

sTeVE

[Warboss Gegguz]

9 hours ago, johnnywc said:

Thanks!

Makes sense ... I wish the 2600+ had the capability but hopefully they figure it out someday.  It would be a win-win for everyone!  🤞

Yeah the firmware needs work. It's just Stella in a minimal Linux environment, so it should theoretically be able to run anything... but just can't atm. Batari is apparently working on some fixes for the Harmony carts though, so who knows. But yeah, the stuff you guys pull off is astounding and super cool to see. I love seeing hardware pushed to its limits.

 

Also, having played both, I genuinely preferred the Demo of Robotwar to the actual 7800 conversion of Robotron. In particular, the controls are way better despite you guys ironically having less to work with (you can't strafe in the 7800 version, both buttons are just fire buttons). That's the kind of stuff I appreciate as someone into game design.

[+LS650]

On 11/29/2023 at 2:55 PM, Recycled said:

Bought the Lady Bug cart back in 2006. I still play it.

And runs well on the 2600+, btw.

[82-T/A]

On 7/11/2023 at 8:21 AM, BobAtari said:

I know everyone has strong opinions about pricing for retro homebrew - and if it needs saying I fully support the right of creators to ask whatever price they see fit for their creations and I don't believe I have any right to get them for less - but does anyone actually pay $20 for a digital ROM?

 

I'm not asking "do you think it's a fair price?", because fairness is an inherently subjective concept and not really applicable to non-necessity items anyway. I'm asking if you put your money where your mouth is and genuinely hand over the real dollars in real life.

 

(I don't. I've paid $10 many a time, but that's my limit. I'd love to buy the entire Champ Games 2600 catalogue at that price, but at $20 a pop they can shove it.)

 

Just curious. Show of hands?

 

When I was a teenager, I used to pirate everything. I even ran a BBS in the early to mid 1990s where I was part of a group called International Network of Crackers and we'd buy games, copy the disks, crack the game, and upload them to warez sites under our banner. I became a developer as a career... and over the past 25 years since, I buy everything. I never pirate anything... not music, nothing. I pay full price for things to make up for my past, haha...

 

Though, there is some hypocrisy there because I own one of those 10,000 in 1 Arcade JAMMA boards. They all seem to be CapCom and Japanese games. The only real ones that I play are the AD&D arcade games... so I'm not perfect.

 

When it comes to ROMs, I don't mind paying of course... but it has to be reflective of the type of game. So... to be completely honest, buying homebrew Atari 2600 games is a bit of a stretch for me. I paid full price (obviously) for Berzerk Enhanced and the Paddle game set... mostly because I wanted to support Atari, but also because I really like Berzerk. But the only homebrews for the 2600 and 7800 I've bought are FAILSAFE and Inv+. I'd buy them all day long for the Jaguar, but these are generally higher-effort games. I've developed some Atari 2600 games in the past (years ago), but never did anything with it... and I'm not saying it's easy, because it was done in Assembly, but I have a hard time paying $40 for an Atari 2600 game when I paid $39 for the rewrite of System Shock.

 

Personally, I think $5-10 is a reasonable price for an Atari 2600 ROM if it's a game that has a lot of play-ability. Beyond that... if I'm spending that kind of money, it's directly because I want to support the developer more than anything else.

 

 

 

[Warboss Gegguz]

22 minutes ago, 82-T/A said:

Personally, I think $5-10 is a reasonable price for an Atari 2600 ROM if it's a game that has a lot of play-ability. Beyond that... if I'm spending that kind of money, it's directly because I want to support the developer more than anything else.

For me it's a bit of both. I want Atari ports of old retro arcade games that never got ported AND I find what Champ does to be awesome. I mean, it's a hobbyist effort as far as I know, and it's such a niche market/use case I get pricing it around $20.

Also, I think price is about a mix of quality and quantity of the product. I don't like the idea of purely basing price on "length". I COULD just emulate the actual arcade games, but part of the fun is seeing hardware pushed so far (at least for me) combined with them being some of my favorite games.

IDK, I think OP seems a bit too cynical and kind of rude. I get being strapped for cash, but why be a dick about it?

[CapitanClassic]

Hitting that price point to make the maximum amount of money is quite difficult. When the iOS and Android marketplace were all the rage, and freemium / loot-boxes weren’t the popular way to sell a game. It was difficult to sell an iOS game for more than $0.99, and almost impossible to sell a game on android for any amount of money.

 

A similar problem happens in Designer Board Games too. If you want to design and release a deck-builder game, you better not be charging more than what Dominion base game sells for.

 

With such a small market as 2600 homebrew, you could charge whatever you want, the difference in earning potential is negligible.