RevEng Posted December 31, 2023 Share Posted December 31, 2023 Perhaps Atari should consider compiling a nice looking book with *all* of the Atari produced 2600 instruction manuals, for those that want paper references. Add a page of preamble for each - excerpts from interviews with the programmers and artists, media or historic events that happened at the game's launch, etc - and you have a nice piece of memorabilia. 6 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sean_1970 Posted December 31, 2023 Share Posted December 31, 2023 23 minutes ago, RevEng said: Perhaps Atari should consider compiling a nice looking book with *all* of the Atari produced 2600 instruction manuals, for those that want paper references. Add a page of preamble for each - excerpts from interviews with the programmers and artists, media or historic events that happened at the game's launch, etc - and you have a nice piece of memorabilia. I would totally buy this! 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JetmanUK Posted December 31, 2023 Share Posted December 31, 2023 To add my thoughts on manuals and game matrixes (matrices? 🤣). I just bought an Evercade VS and a bunch of cartridges. I was surprised to find that all the games came with full colour manuals, and I believe some even come with extras like cards and stickers. Additionally when you consider that the cartridges contain multiple games, come in plastic cases and they retail at £17.99 here in the UK they are tremendous value. When you compare the new 2600 releases, Berzerk Enhanced and Mr Run and Jump, they come in a cardboard box, have no manual, contain one game only and cost £24.99. A whole £7 more. Now don't get me wrong, I'm happy with a cardboard box instead of a plastic one, after all that's how they packaged them back in the day (and less plastic is always good!), but surely the cardboard costs less to produce? Also, the complete lack of a manual when it is necessary on the 2600 (digital or paper, a game type manual IS necessary) as you have game variations in Atari games. The Evercade has a UI and can display instructions on screen, so they are not even essential on the Evercade. This is not even a complaint about the £24.99 price, I want Atari to succeed, i prefer the Atari brand to Evercade, I want them to succeed. I'm happy to have just one game on a cart (although more multi game carts would be welcome too), but we must get a manual with all games and after seeing Evercade, it should be full colour. I know Ben has stated that we will get manuals, this is a good step forward. I am aware that products have different bill of quantities, and margins differ between companies but Atari, you don't even need to try too hard, there's a large market of people of an age where they have a nice amount of disposable income and a big fat nostalgia muscle. We will spend! Give us games, new, top homebrew releases, and old ones enhanced. Out wallets are ready! 9 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sean_1970 Posted January 1 Share Posted January 1 On 12/14/2023 at 10:03 PM, Mockduck said: Ok, pulled out the Omega Boost controller and I had forgotten how it worked, it does indeed act as a go-between between the Joystick and controller port. My copy of Omega Race won't play in my 2600+, most likely because it is a RAM Plus cart, although I gave it a cleaning with contact cleaner just in case to no effect. No real way for me to tell then if the controller works. I really wish I had seen this post in October before I bought a cart-only Omega Race if this boost grip is required to play the game. What does it do that the regular joystick doesn’t? Means I face a choice of just binning the cart or hoping somehow I can find this add-on hardware by itself, though unless a firmware update supports it - and there’s a mechanism to install for folk without access to a Windows machine they can install drivers on - I guess that won’t matter 🤷♂️ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SuperZapperRecharge Posted January 1 Share Posted January 1 32 minutes ago, Sean_1970 said: I really wish I had seen this post in October before I bought a cart-only Omega Race if this boost grip is required to play the game. What does it do that the regular joystick doesn’t? Means I face a choice of just binning the cart or hoping somehow I can find this add-on hardware by itself, though unless a firmware update supports it - and there’s a mechanism to install for folk without access to a Windows machine they can install drivers on - I guess that won’t matter 🤷♂️ There is a second button on the booster grip. The two triggers have two different functions. I believe one is thrust and one is fire. The manual will explain it: Quote Use your Booster-Grip adaptor with your Joystick Controller to gain complete control over your Fighter. After fitting the Joystick with the Booster-Grip, hold the assembly so that the red button on the base of the controller is to your upper left toward the screen and the trigger on the Booster-Grip is facing front. Tightly grasp the Booster-Grip so that your forefinger rests on the trigger and your thumb rests on the booster. Both the booster and the red button on the base of the controller perform the same function in OMEGA RACE; they control your Fighter's thrust. The trigger is used to fire your laser cannon. The Booster-Grip itself serves as your Fighter's directional control. Use it to steer your Fighter in any direction and to aim your laser cannon. https://atariage.com/manual_html_page.php?SoftwareLabelID=332 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sean_1970 Posted January 1 Share Posted January 1 2 hours ago, SuperZapperRecharge said: There is a second button on the booster grip. The two triggers have two different functions. I believe one is thrust and one is fire. The manual will explain it: https://atariage.com/manual_html_page.php?SoftwareLabelID=332 Asteroids used up for thrust just fine and has the same control scheme of rotate l/r and fire - heck Asteroids has hyperspace as well and still works with one button! Really weird play from CBS to build a new peripheral and massively increase the cost to them to port a game that I remember from the arcade, but doubt was a big hit. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KainXavier Posted January 1 Share Posted January 1 On 12/30/2023 at 4:32 PM, tradyblix said: Never read a single manual as a child. Probably why I never beat Raiders. Okay, I have to ask. What did you read when you went to the bathroom, then? Were you one of those shampoo bottle people? XD 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scifidude79 Posted January 1 Share Posted January 1 6 hours ago, Sean_1970 said: Asteroids used up for thrust just fine and has the same control scheme of rotate l/r and fire - heck Asteroids has hyperspace as well and still works with one button! Really weird play from CBS to build a new peripheral and massively increase the cost to them to port a game that I remember from the arcade, but doubt was a big hit. Yeah, the control scheme for the Atari 2600 version of Asteroids is perfect. L/R are rotate, up is thrust, back is hyperspace and the button is fire. Or, if you played the variants with the shield, back was the shield. They really made the most out of the CX-40. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
protomank Posted January 2 Share Posted January 2 On 12/30/2023 at 10:32 PM, MikeM_ said: For me, it’s more about resource allocation. besides, we have Atari 50 and the modern VCS that have all the UX changes listed already. Why do we need them on the 2600+ also? 1. Agreed, but you are (almost) the only one taking this point. Other people just do not want the UI even if its hidden because that will hurt their eyes when they are obligated to enter the UI even if they do not want, or something like that. UI is not priority, just a nice bonus that might be useful to improve compatibility also (likje picking the right dumper in case of fails) and improving experience, like using select/start without moving into the console itself all the time. 2. The other options like Atari 50 the VCS, etc; do not allow you to play your own carts. I do not believe one should be restricted by the other and vice versa. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thomas Jentzsch Posted January 2 Share Posted January 2 On 12/31/2023 at 2:32 AM, MikeM_ said: For me, it’s more about resource allocation. I’d rather see developer time and effort put into making the 2600+ as smooth an experience as possible and Atari can instead focus the Atari 50 team (which i’d make a confident guess is not the same team) on those kinds of changes to the experience. These are two completely different resources. And for the 2600+ we could reuse Stella's UI already existing for the R77. On 12/31/2023 at 2:32 AM, MikeM_ said: besides, we have Atari 50 and the modern VCS that have all the UX changes listed already. Why do we need them on the 2600+ also? For the same reasons the other ones have UIs too. An UI is not a feature, but a core functionality, which gives the user the option to fix issues and to adjust the emulation to its needs and preferences. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thomas Jentzsch Posted January 2 Share Posted January 2 On 1/1/2024 at 2:27 AM, Sean_1970 said: I really wish I had seen this post in October before I bought a cart-only Omega Race if this boost grip is required to play the game. What does it do that the regular joystick doesn’t? Means I face a choice of just binning the cart or hoping somehow I can find this add-on hardware by itself, though unless a firmware update supports it - and there’s a mechanism to install for folk without access to a Windows machine they can install drivers on - I guess that won’t matter 🤷♂️ With the 2600+, it could be played using a regular joystick. You only would have to map the 2nd fire button to up. But that requires an UI. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sean_1970 Posted January 2 Share Posted January 2 3 hours ago, Thomas Jentzsch said: With the 2600+, it could be played using a regular joystick. You only would have to map the 2nd fire button to up. But that requires an UI. Not that I needed selling, but I’m sold on the UI now. Trying to find one of these boost sticks on its own seems potentially difficult - at least where I am currently. There was a retro game shop in Chicago that had literally a bin fillled with random accessories, so it’s not impossible one could be there 😂 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brad_from_the_80s Posted January 2 Share Posted January 2 6 hours ago, Thomas Jentzsch said: These are two completely different resources. And for the 2600+ we could reuse Stella's UI already existing for the R77. Recreating the R77 doesn't seem like the right approach to me. Maybe for a community build or something, but that is a rom-oriented UI and probably many options that consumers won't understand. Plus there is another system besides Stella on here. I think a custom service menu UI with a curated set of simple toggle/slider options is appropriate and adequate for most consumers/end-users. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brad_from_the_80s Posted January 2 Share Posted January 2 On 12/31/2023 at 1:05 PM, Sean_1970 said: I would totally buy this! https://www.amazon.com/Atari-Flashback-Essential-Prima-Games/dp/0744018862 This is not that, exactly, nor is it comprehensive. But the closest Atari has come, and I've always liked this book. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thomas Jentzsch Posted January 2 Share Posted January 2 (edited) 28 minutes ago, Brad_from_the_80s said: Recreating the R77 doesn't seem like the right approach to me. Maybe for a community build or something, but that is a rom-oriented UI and probably many options that consumers won't understand. Plus there is another system besides Stella on here. I think a custom service menu UI with a curated set of simple toggle/slider options is appropriate and adequate for most consumers/end-users. The whole Launcher part would obviously be completely dropped. Which leaves the Command menu (R77 version screenshot)... ...from which you can toggle some options and get to the basic Settings (again R77 version): That's pretty much exactly what you are describing, no? BTW: The UI can be fully navigated with a one button joystick. Edited January 2 by Thomas Jentzsch 5 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheRingBearer Posted January 2 Share Posted January 2 41 minutes ago, Thomas Jentzsch said: BTW: The UI can be fully navigated with a one button joystick. Maybe an option for setting the bank switch type for the rare occasion when stella mis-identifies. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thomas Jentzsch Posted January 2 Share Posted January 2 (edited) 47 minutes ago, TheRingBearer said: Maybe an option for setting the bank switch type for the rare occasion when stella mis-identifies. Yup. And the UI theme (maybe Atari wants to have its own one?) and dialog position can go. Edited January 2 by Thomas Jentzsch Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JetSetIlly Posted January 2 Share Posted January 2 9 minutes ago, Thomas Jentzsch said: Yup. And the UI theme (maybe Atari wants to have its own one?) and dialog position can go. Realistically, there are only some banking types that can be confused with one another. How about using some sort of panel input (eg. toggling the reset switch three or four times) to force the system to try again with the next most likely option. If that's successful then Stella can record the choice in the database so the user doesn't have to intervene again. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ben from Plaion Posted January 2 Share Posted January 2 The direct access to the Stella UI is really the only option here, solves loads of issues in one go. But alas apparently it's not as simple as setting Stella UI to show via an option in the build process. We'll see. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brad_from_the_80s Posted January 2 Share Posted January 2 1 hour ago, Thomas Jentzsch said: ...from which you can toggle some options and get to the basic Settings (again R77 version): That's pretty much exactly what you are describing, no? BTW: The UI can be fully navigated with a one button joystick. I'm not sure about some of the options, but that's probably fine. But what about supporting any 7800 settings? Really in my mind not much is needed here. I know others are looking for different things, but if I can just independently toggle scanlines, maybe screen resolutions and one or two minor things to address certain types of roms or controllers then I think I'm good. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thomas Jentzsch Posted January 2 Share Posted January 2 22 minutes ago, JetSetIlly said: Realistically, there are only some banking types that can be confused with one another. How about using some sort of panel input (eg. toggling the reset switch three or four times) to force the system to try again with the next most likely option. If that's successful then Stella can record the choice in the database so the user doesn't have to intervene again. That's what is usually stored in the properties. But first we would need reliable check summing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thomas Jentzsch Posted January 2 Share Posted January 2 14 minutes ago, Brad_from_the_80s said: I'm not sure about some of the options, but that's probably fine. But what about supporting any 7800 settings? Sorry, I am only responsible for Stella, the 2600 emu. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+remowilliams Posted January 2 Share Posted January 2 2 hours ago, Thomas Jentzsch said: Which leaves the Command menu (R77 version screenshot)... Which I think would work great. The complicating factor here is Atari apparently using the libretro build. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brad_from_the_80s Posted January 2 Share Posted January 2 18 minutes ago, Thomas Jentzsch said: Sorry, I am only responsible for Stella, the 2600 emu. Which again, I'm back to why not a basic custom menu screen (SDL or something with widgets) that writes to the respective config files for each sub-system for a supported set of options and features. For a consumer product that's the basic level of experience I would expect. Or else we either have to navigate to 2 different UIs somehow or one system simply isn't supported with options. Which the current 7800 emu may not have that many options anyway, but still. But not my decision, just how I think about it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Glorkbot Posted January 2 Share Posted January 2 (edited) 10 minutes ago, Brad_from_the_80s said: For a consumer product that's the basic level of experience I would expect. Stella, the emulator, isn't a "consumer product." It's free. Yes, it's being used in this consumer product...probably because it's the best Atari emulator there is...but it itself is hardly a consumer product. Or maybe I'm totally misunderstanding what you're on about. If so, forget it, I apologize. I'd delete this message but that doesn't seem to be an option. Edited January 2 by Glorkbot confused Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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