The Atari 2600+ is live for preorders!

[donjn]

4 minutes ago, infinite.pies said:

Personally, I'm not someone who has ever played with emulators. I stumbled across this forum very recently after hearing about the 2600+, so I'm actually very new to all of this retro gaming.

 

I had an Atari VCS in the late seventies/early eighties as a kid. I haven't played any of these games for decades.

 

I guess I may have a different requirement to many people in this community, but I just love the fact that these consoles only play from cartridges, and I really love the idea of the dip switches for multi-game cartridges. For me, having a menu or SD card access would take it too far away from the original experience. Starting to collect cartridges again, for me, is a big part of the attraction.

 

I'm not averse to a bit of nostalgia, and it's going to be a great Christmas in my household this year.

But in reality, you are not playing on an Atari computer system, its a rom dumper.

Lets reverse it.

 

Given the choice I think almost all people here would prefer:

An FPGA solution with an SD cart slot and the ability to use cartridges, vs
An emulator in a box with no SD card solution and jumpers for multi-cart games.

 

They picked the worst of both choices there, but I assume the cost of FPGA would be much, much more so I get that.

 

 

[Albert]

7 minutes ago, donjn said:

But a huge percentage of us Atari folk already use eyeglasses as we are older. I know I do.
Also I am 6'6" with larger hands, maybe its just a "me" problem lol.

I had to start wearing glasses several a few years ago.  I don't like it, but that's just the reality I have to deal with.  Since I'm generally always wearing these glasses when I'm awake, I have no problems seeing/manipulating the dip switches.  I don't feel the glasses argument really has any weight. If you're not wearing glasses and can't easily make out the individual switches, it might be time to visit an optometrist. 

Now, being able to manipulate the switches, sure, I could see if you have large hands and/or you've chewed down your fingernails, it is probably easier to use a pen or something similar to switch them. No need to hunt down tweezers, though.

 

 ..Al

[donjn]

5 minutes ago, Albert said:

I had to start wearing glasses several a few years ago.  I don't like it, but that's just the reality I have to deal with.  Since I'm generally always wearing these glasses when I'm awake, I have no problems seeing/manipulating the dip switches.  I don't feel the glasses argument really has any weight. If you're not wearing glasses and can't easily make out the individual switches, it might be time to visit an optometrist. 

Now, being able to manipulate the switches, sure, I could see if you have large hands and/or you've chewed down your fingernails, it is probably easier to use a pen or something similar to switch them. No need to hunt down tweezers, though.

 

 ..Al

I am talking about reading glasses. A lot of people ONLY put on glasses to read and having to do so to change games is odd, that's all.

Edited November 13, 2023 by donjn

[donjn]

20 minutes ago, Albert said:

Not yet, as it's a Melody-based game, but we are very motivated to get Melody carts working on the 2600+.

 

 ..Al

Atari is putting out a new Atari 2600 unit but they also own Atari Age who is putting out Atari 2600 games that dont work with it?

Man if I was in charge of this operation I would delay until the summer. "This thing is not released until it plays ALL Atari games".

 

Imagine selling a new CD player that would only play certain CDs (so you need to look at a list), and that CD player company also sells CDs that currently don't work with it.

 

I mean, I feel like I am taking crazy pills here.

 

[Albert]

Just now, donjn said:

Atari is putting out a new Atari 2600 unit but they also own Atari Age who is putting out Atari 2600 games that dont work with it?

Man if I was in charge of this operation I would delay until the summer. "This thing is not released until it plays ALL Atari games".

Due to the nature of the system, ROM dumpers generally cannot read Melody carts because of the way they work (the game code is completely inaccessible to a system that attempts to dump the game).  We may not be able to get them to work, but we are going to try.  As far as the general public is concerned, it will run nearly all games that people try to play. 

 

If Atari produced a considerably more expensive FPGA system, the general public would be turned off by the high cost, but I'm sure the hobbyists would enjoy it (and probably also complain about the high cost).  Who knows, that may come at some point in the future if the 2600+ is successful (and so far it is), but I think this is a good first standalone Atari 2600 console from Atari and allows Atari to gauge the marketplace to see just how much demand there is for a system like this that plays physical cartridges.

 

There are downsides to either approach.

 

 ..Al

 

[donjn]

9 minutes ago, Albert said:

Due to the nature of the system, ROM dumpers generally cannot read Melody carts because of the way they work (the game code is completely inaccessible to a system that attempts to dump the game).  We may not be able to get them to work, but we are going to try.  As far as the general public is concerned, it will run nearly all games that people try to play. 

 

If Atari produced a considerably more expensive FPGA system, the general public would be turned off by the high cost, but I'm sure the hobbyists would enjoy it (and probably also complain about the high cost).  Who knows, that may come at some point in the future if the 2600+ is successful (and so far it is), but I think this is a good first standalone Atari 2600 console from Atari and allows Atari to gauge the marketplace to see just how much demand there is for a system like this that plays physical cartridges.

 

There are downsides to either approach.

 

 ..Al

 

I can only imagine what an FPGA solution would cost. My first guess would be at least $200 minimum, maybe $250 so yeah.

[Ben from Plaion]

42 minutes ago, Electric-Dreams said:

Well I share the same opinion. It's truly unfortunate! What exactly does the Atari 2600+ represent after all?

The Atari 2600+ aspires to embody the essence of old-school gaming, in stark contrast to the fully digital approaches of contemporary systems (consoles with no drives, no cartridges, or, in the case of cloud gaming, no console at all).

Why do I go through the trouble of acquiring a "new" vintage console with physical media?
Why do I go through the trouble of buying brand new "retro" physical media?

Why do I go through the hassle of retrieving a box from a shelf to play a video game?

Why do I go through the effort of placing the cartridge in the console?

I could just download and play every existing Atari 2600 gameson a buch of devices i already own.
But it's all about reliving the old-school gaming experience.

So, why would I go online to consult a PDF when I could have had the original user manual conveniently at hand directly, like the good old times?

The user manual is not only crucial for understanding and enjoying some Atari 2600 video games, but it's also an integral part of the old-school gaming ritual for me.

Look at Xbox Series X or Playstation 5 physical games: What do they have in common? They lack a manual.

I would be willing to pay up to 5 euros extra per game to have a replica of the original paper manual in the box, but I don't know if that would affect the profitability of the reissued games for the Atari 2600+.

You're right.

 

...apart from suggesting a price increase, that's just not an option for me.

 

Sometimes things like this just don't work out in time for various reasons. Let me think about it and let's revisit if and when we go back in manufacture with the games.

[Ben from Plaion]

6 minutes ago, donjn said:

I can only imagine what an FPGA solution would cost. My first guess would be at least $200 minimum, maybe $250 so yeah.

If you are ever in the UK, I'd kindly invite you to the office and under NDA, I could go through in detail how and why we choose the route to market we did, I'd explain the business case to you considering vs a FPGA or ASIC option with all the development, procurement, licensing and cost challenges against the ROI found in the TAM (total addressable market). Im confident you would have to agree we took the right approach knowing what we did in that moment of time.

 

I used to watch a TV show in the UK called Dragons Den, in the US it's called Shark Tank, a panel member said something that forever stuck with me because it really struck home because I've experienced it so many times in my working life at Koch/Plaion....it was something like "Getting a successful product to market is just 5 percent idea and 95 percent it's execution"

[infinite.pies]

38 minutes ago, donjn said:

But in reality, you are not playing on an Atari computer system, its a rom dumper.

Lets reverse it.

 

Given the choice I think almost all people here would prefer:

An FPGA solution with an SD cart slot and the ability to use cartridges, vs
An emulator in a box with no SD card solution and jumpers for multi-cart games.

 

They picked the worst of both choices there, but I assume the cost of FPGA would be much, much more so I get that.

 

 

Yes, I know that it's a ROM dumper - that's something I'd never heard of until the last few days when I joined this forum. I also never even knew that it was possible to play some of these games on an emulator. I'm learning very rapidly!

 

Everyone in here will know it's a ROM dumper, and I don't doubt that many here would like an SD card slot. However, I'm sure there are also a lot of people like me out there who know nothing about game emulation, and just want something that at least feels like it's working in the same way as the original console, with cartridges.

 

I think it's two different markets, and this machine is really for the other market. That doesn't necessarily mean that Atari and Plaion have made the wrong choice, it's just that it's not what you are looking for. It's perfect for me, and I suspect for many others. I have zero interest in playing games from an SD card, or on an emulator, I want cartridges on dedicated hardware. They could have tried to make it all things to all people with cartridges and an SD card slot, but then it probably would have been too expensive to sell.

 

Neither of us have the "correct" requirement, we're just coming at it from very different perspectives, and want different things. It'll be interesting to see if there is a market that is big enough for this to be a commercial success. I hope there is!

 

 

[Dr Karnov]

I've already got an FPGA way to play all 2600 and 7800 games, complete with SD cart slot, because I've got a MiSTer. If an Atari branded equivalent was released for £300-500 I would not be interested in it.

 

This new machine designed to work with the majority of original carts and peripherals is definitely something I am interested in, which is why I preordered it.

[donjn]

10 minutes ago, Dr Karnov said:

I've already got an FPGA way to play all 2600 and 7800 games, complete with SD cart slot, because I've got a MiSTer. If an Atari branded equivalent was released for £300-500 I would not be interested in it.

 

This new machine designed to work with the majority of original carts and peripherals is definitely something I am interested in, which is why I preordered it.

Yes, but your MiSTer does not LOOK like the Atari 2600+, which is one of the reasons I pre-ordered it.

I've thought about looking into a MiSTer but the way I want it would be a pain and be expensive. My dream MiSTer setup would play 2600, 5200, 7800, Atari 800 and Commodore 64 games but be inside an Atari 800-like case.

 

 

[Albert]

2 minutes ago, donjn said:

Yes, but your MiSTer does not LOOK like the Atari 2600+, which is one of the reasons I pre-ordered it.

Nor does it play physical cartridges, which is part of the appeal of the 2600+.

 

I have a MiSTer setup as well, and it's nice, but there's something to be said for plugging a physical cartridge into a console, and of course the nostalgia of doing so with 2600 and 7800 cartridges. 

 

 ..Al

[insertclevernamehere]

I've asked for the Atari 2600+ as a Christmas present from my wife.  Now I don't know 100% if she's going to get it for me.  She's not a big fan of my retro gaming hobby but at the same time, she never said "no" either.  I could ask her but I also just want it to be a surprise come Christmas morning. What I want to know is, will the 2600+ continue to be available after the preorder period, or will it only be produced in limited quantities with preorders likely taking most or all of that number?  I just want to know if it won't be too late to get one if my wife does a Scrooge on me.

Edited November 13, 2023 by insertclevernamehere

[Ben from Plaion]

3 minutes ago, insertclevernamehere said:

I've asked for the Atari 2600+ as a Christmas present from my wife.  Now I don't know 100% if she's going to get it for me.  She's not a big fan of my retro gaming hobby but at the same time, she never said "no" either.  I could ask her but I also just want it to be a surprise come Christmas morning. What I want to know is, will the 2600+ continue to be available after the preorder period, or will it only be produced in limited quantities with preorders likely taking most or all of that number?  I just want to know if it won't be too late to get one if my wife does a Scrooge on me.

 The 2600+ will be available throughout 2024 and likely beyond. Still you deserve one now, get your preorder in!

[Dr Karnov]

14 minutes ago, Albert said:

Nor does it play physical cartridges, which is part of the appeal of the 2600+.

 

I have a MiSTer setup as well, and it's nice, but there's something to be said for plugging a physical cartridge into a console, and of course the nostalgia of doing so with 2600 and 7800 cartridges. 

 

 ..Al

I agree 100%.

 

I had fewer than 20 x 2600 and 7800 carts prior to the 2600+ being announced, and hadn't played 'real' Atari carts for years.

 

Now I've got more than 80 carts and can't wait to work through them week after next.

[Ben from Plaion]

54 minutes ago, infinite.pies said:

Yes, I know that it's a ROM dumper - that's something I'd never heard of until the last few days when I joined this forum. I also never even knew that it was possible to play some of these games on an emulator. I'm learning very rapidly!

 

Everyone in here will know it's a ROM dumper, and I don't doubt that many here would like an SD card slot. However, I'm sure there are also a lot of people like me out there who know nothing about game emulation, and just want something that at least feels like it's working in the same way as the original console, with cartridges.

 

I think it's two different markets, and this machine is really for the other market. That doesn't necessarily mean that Atari and Plaion have made the wrong choice, it's just that it's not what you are looking for. It's perfect for me, and I suspect for many others. I have zero interest in playing games from an SD card, or on an emulator, I want cartridges on dedicated hardware. They could have tried to make it all things to all people with cartridges and an SD card slot, but then it probably would have been too expensive to sell.

 

Neither of us have the "correct" requirement, we're just coming at it from very different perspectives, and want different things. It'll be interesting to see if there is a market that is big enough for this to be a commercial success. I hope there is!

 

 

Feel free to keep posting my man!

[atariman72]

1 hour ago, Ben from Plaion said:

You're right.

 

...apart from suggesting a price increase, that's just not an option for me.

 

Sometimes things like this just don't work out in time for various reasons. Let me think about it and let's revisit if and when we go back in manufacture with the games.

I really hope you do think about it and do printed manuals with future cartridge releases.  It just seems counter to the whole idea of the 2600+ that you need to read a PDF to understand the options and controls of a game.

 

Ideally, I'd also love to see future cartridges have 4 or 5 games on them with a printed manual at the £24.99 or so retail price point.  Similar to what Evercade have managed as that would appeal to both collectors and retail.

[+MrZarniwoop]

1 hour ago, Ben from Plaion said:

Let me think about it and let's revisit if and when we go back in manufacture with the games.

Please consider (re-)releasing games with menus. It's a simple innovation that reduces, but does not eliminate, the need for manuals.

[Emehr]

The DIP switch issue is easily fixed with a small plastic fob with all of the features shown below. Put all of the game fobs on a key ring or share with your friends!

 

Forgive my crude sketch.

[Ben from Plaion]

23 minutes ago, atariman72 said:

I really hope you do think about it and do printed manuals with future cartridge releases.  It just seems counter to the whole idea of the 2600+ that you need to read a PDF to understand the options and controls of a game.

 

Ideally, I'd also love to see future cartridges have 4 or 5 games on them with a printed manual at the £24.99 or so retail price point.  Similar to what Evercade have managed as that would appeal to both collectors and retail.

I don't do anything but think about what feedback I get here on AA. However those thoughts have to be tempered against the business case. Without forecasted profitable outcome there is no product.

 

Let me tell you something, I don't think Thomas will mind me sharing this... way back last year I started talking to Stella devs about what we wanted to do, we had cordial discussions, I shared detail on the proposed software set up with him - he railed against it. I thought Fuck - this guy is the apex of the 2600 community, I need to heed his advice....it was detailed blunt feedback, two main points spring to mind, Stella had to move from 2014 version to 6.7 and the dumper chip has to be rewritable. So I scrapped the set up and instructed to rework it all, delaying proposed launch date. Probably the best decision I made for the 2600+.

 

I'm not saying it's now perfect and everyone ( including Thomas ) will be satisfied I'm just trying to show that we did listen and tried to do everything in our limited power to make best product we could.

Edited November 13, 2023 by Ben from Plaion

[Dionoid]

6 minutes ago, Ben from Plaion said:

...it was detailed blunt feedback, two main points spring to mind, Stella had to move from 2014 version to 6.7 and the dumper chip has to be rewritable. So I scrapped the set up and instructed to rework it all, delaying proposed launch date. Probably the best decision I made for the 2600+.

Thanks to Thomas for giving you this feedback, and thanks to you for actually reworking the initial set up!

Edited November 13, 2023 by Dionoid

[Thomas Jentzsch]

6 minutes ago, Dionoid said:

Thanks to Thomas for giving you this feedback, and thanks to you for actually reworking the initial set up!

It was not only me. The whole Stella teams was involved. 

[Ben from Plaion]

9 minutes ago, Thomas Jentzsch said:

It was not only me. The whole Stella teams was involved. 

Without doubt, but still it's ok to take credit for yourself because it's due...whenever you post it's like a bat signal into the clouds...me, Atari and the whole 2600 community quickly navigate to what you're saying!!! Cause you spit the blunt truth backed up with the detail.

[protomank]

Here in Brazil, the Dactar company that produced 2600 clones and carts (there was no software copyright here at the time) made several multicarts that used normal electronic switches that I feel are way better than the dip-switches.

As I owned, and still own, a Dactar system, I was very used to those multicarts, and have one I bough a couple years ago - mine did not survive.

While easier to handle, those bigger switches are not good in the long run tough, they start to have bad contact soon.

 

[nateut]

Sorry if this has been mentioned elsewhere, but how long is the cable on the new CX40+ joystick’s cable ?