The Atari 2600+ is live for preorders!

[+sramirez2008]

On 11/27/2023 at 9:19 AM, Ben from Plaion said:

Just to let you know what we are looking at for the first update to the 2600+ software

7800 emulation upgrade 

7800 dumper upgrade to fix reported PAL cart errors and enable homebrew

2600 PAL colour palette change to z26

2600 dumper upgrade to fix Realsports Boxing, Circus Convoy, CBS RAM Plus and M-Network games

2600 difficulty switch reversal

2600/7800 auto detect cart region for 50/60hz display

 

Maybe elements within these points we run into difficulties, maybe more fixes are added, at this moment in time I just need to become bit clearer on whats acheivable and in what timeframe.

 

I'll be posting here with more details on these points and giving an indication of when a update will be available in the next few weeks.

You had me at 7800 emulation upgrade.

[+jgkspsx]

1 hour ago, donjn said:

I am not privy to what happens with most Amazon electronic returns. If the one I returned ends up in a dumpster that would truly suck, and I would have had second thoughts. You hit me with this one because I am weird. My wife threw out my old floor lamp and I kept saying he is in the dumpster and is sad....

https://www.bbcearth.com/news/your-brand-new-returns-end-up-in-landfill

[Brad_from_the_80s]

27 minutes ago, insertclevernamehere said:

I mentioned a few days ago that I asked my wife for a 2600+ for Christmas but I wasn't sure she'd get one for me.  Well now I know she came through and there will be one waiting for me under the tree on Christmas morning, along with new paddles.  
 

I dare say there will be a few butterflies in my tummy that morning, not too dissimilar to the excited feeling we all had when we were kids.  Only Atari has the power to do this to me at my age.  It is quite bizarre.  But I love it.

Atari Christmas mornings are back thanks to 2600+

[Microjak]

32 minutes ago, insertclevernamehere said:

I mentioned a few days ago that I asked my wife for a 2600+ for Christmas but I wasn't sure she'd get one for me.  Well now I know she came through and there will be one waiting for me under the tree on Christmas morning, along with new paddles.  
 

I dare say there will be a few butterflies in my tummy that morning, not too dissimilar to the excited feeling we all had when we were kids.  Only Atari has the power to do this to me at my age.  It is quite bizarre.  But I love it.

I am in the same boat and totally get your excitement! I'm not sure how I’m going to get to sleep on Christmas Eve!

[infinite.pies]

3 hours ago, donjn said:

It is not an economically viable solution to chase down some of my favorite Atari games like H.E.R.O. ($60), Saboteur ($40)

 

I understand where you're coming from, but I do find it interesting how little value is often put on gaming these days.

 

Back in around 1980 when I got my Atari as a 13 year-old kid, the cost of the console in the UK where I was living at the time was £100 (US $127). With inflation, that would be around £410 (US $520) today.

 

The Space Invaders cartridge was £28 (US $35), which would be around £114 (US $144) in today's money.

 

My parents managed to buy me the console for Christmas, even though it was a lot of money for them. I used to save for months to buy a new cartridge. The anticipation would be a big part of the enjoyment, and I must have spent hundreds of hours playing the games. I never felt it was overpriced, even though it was a huge stretch to buy. The cost per hour of fun was well worth it.

 

That's why this new release is so important to people like me. Playing those original cartridges on new hardware is just a joy. I understand that not everyone can afford it, but to me it's priceless.

 

I'll put my violin away now while I play Adventure just one more time.

[Recycled]

14 minutes ago, Microjak said:

I am in the same boat and totally get your excitement! I'm not sure how I’m going to get to sleep on Christmas Eve!

That was Christmas Eve 1980 for me.  The anticipation was like no other.

[Tavi]

5 hours ago, Brad_from_the_80s said:

It's possible this console just isn't for everybody.  It closely recreates a 2600, so the lack of menus, USB, wireless, digital delivery, flash storage, drm, etc, should not be a surprise.  And I like the controller we got WAY better than the modern controller - a nice looking piece of kit that I otherwise don't enjoy that much.  An entirely different product option came to market with wireless controllers and easy rom support.  I feel like the VCS is the most realistic platform for some of the rest.

 

I think describing old carts as all corroded is a bit exaggerated.  I naively thought I was one of the few without a collection trying to catch up really quick scarfing them up on ebay or locally for my 2600+, but apparently several people are doing this and having a lot of fun I'd say.  Even the dirtiest carts I've received cannot remotely be described as corroded, and give every indication that they may last for decades yet.  And these are just loose carts with lots of cosmetic wear.  I've seen pics of really nasty ones, but many even 40+ years old are safe to buy.  Some few particular games are definitely pricey, but most can still be found pretty cheap without too much effort.

I think it would be more accurate to say it emulates a 2600, rather then recreates. The 2600+ does not actually need a physical cartridge inserted to play a game, it is really nothing more then a pleasant nostalgic nod or novelty. It is effectively a Flashback that reads a cartridge, copies the data then plays the dumped rom. It could easily have had multiple games loaded internally or an option to add though a micro-SD.

The issue for some (including myself) is that pretty much every 2600-themed unit (Flashback 2 being the lone exception) released to date is emulation.

How many variations of a Flashback or Retron77 does one want to own? Especially if they all do basically the same thing? Speaking as someone who has over the years has bought three different models of Flashbacks, and a Retron77; I can say that my emulation itch has been well scratched at this point.

The other issue people are bringing up is also a good one. Original 2600 cartridges are definitely getting more expensive. 10+ years ago you could walk into a thrift store or pawn shop and buy all the 2600 games you wanted for a few dollars each or buy a box filled with 2600 cartridges in an online auction for the price of a fast food meal. Now for 120 USD console, dropping another 80-100$ online to get an assortment of 20+ common games is going to get old pretty fast I expect for those without an existing collection.

I am glad the people who are enjoying the 2600+ are having a blast with it. But at least for myself, I am talking a pass on this just as I have on the last few versions of Flashbacks.

I am not knocking the unit, it does look nice and support for 2600 and 7800 is certainly a big plus; but it is also still too similar to previous emulation units I already own to be something I feel a need to own.

[Albert]

On 11/27/2023 at 4:34 PM, Ben from Plaion said:

You'd melt with the nostalgic overload.

You do know what I've been doing for the past 25 years, right?

 

 ..Al

[John Stamos Mullet]

Not being able to use sd-carts and having to change each cart feels more nostalgic than playing my original console right now.

[jfdav]

I've been enjoying playing Atari games on my PC via Stella for years, but I've always wanted just that extra dopamine hit of nostalgia without going down the route of maintaining original hardware. Thought I had that needle pinned with using original joysticks via USB adapters and scanline filters. But then I saw this thing, and honestly I bought it just for the way it looks. It's modeled after the version I received for Christmas as a kid, that my sister apparently dropped down the stairs to the basement long after I forgot about it (just heard that story last week, no kidding). I still have a small collection of my favorite carts, and my high school friend will be giving me his collection when I visit home for Christmas out of the kindness of his heart. He has H.E.R.O., so I'll have to buy him his drink(s) of choice.

 

I got a chance to speak to @Ben from Plaion at PRGE (I was the forgettable guy with the hat) and was discussing how I was also trying to get the same nostalgia kick with a Commodore 64. I was trying to cobble together a Frankenstein C64 out of a new C64C case, eBay original keyboard, Keyrah and a RazPi. Then I saw THEC64 Maxi, thought  "WTF am I doing this for??" and bought that outright. Turns out he made that too. 

 

I owe this guy a beer   🍻

 

 

[KainXavier]

13 hours ago, Ben from Plaion said:

Look at the response online to the machine, the reach of eyes on a 2600+ video, article or social media post is way way higher then expected.

 

Wades already commented publicly on the legs of 2600+. There is more to come.

 

Consensus internally I can feel is building that it's been a great start and I can see the chances of Basic Math being on a fresh cart being a possibility!

I'm still waiting on the sequel, Advanced Math: Fun with Polynomials. 😛

 

On a different note, are there any plans to add the ability to dump ROM's to an external storage device?  I'd like to be able to back-up my own games, but I imagine it might also be a useful feature for debugging the dumper.

[tradyblix]

7 hours ago, John Stamos Mullet said:

Not being able to use sd-carts and having to change each cart feels more nostalgic than playing my original console right now.

This is totally the fun of the device. Also, you respect the games more physically having them than you do roms you've um... stolen.

 

There is a real visceral quality to plugging and playing them. 

Edited November 29, 2023 by tradyblix

[protomank]

Guy, you need to realize that the Plus and nother machines have a complete different market direction.

If you just want to load roms, get an Atari and Activision collection for your PC or Playstation and have fun - let's jsut pretend no one here will be doing piracy and downloading roms from internet

 

Now, the 2600+ has a goal of re-releasing devices such as paddles, extension cables, joysticks and, more importantly, cartridges. Why would one put a SD Card slot if they are planning to sell carts? It would just kill the market for the console, it makes no sense at all.

From all criticism I did read here, the only one that is possible, is that the success of the plus ends up making the carts more expensive. But at same time, we have the option to buy new ones, that should hold prices a bit. For myself, I do think carts should be USD 20 and come with printed manuals. The first I know won't happen unless it sells big time, and understand the price is for the production costs of a not so big number of copies, but I do hope the second is fixed soon, so those new versions will be a good alternative to original ones. And, of course, there are the third party games that, right now, we know of no plans for being re-released. But that is it, appreciate the product for what it is, it is a console that play carts, much like the original 2600 before Harmony and other carts that load from SD existed, and it was nice to have even without a way to play roms 

[Dbug]

8 minutes ago, protomank said:

Guy, you need to realize that the Plus and nother machines have a complete different market direction.

If you just want to load roms, get an Atari and Activision collection for your PC or Playstation and have fun - let's jsut pretend no one here will be doing piracy and downloading roms from internet

 

Now, the 2600+ has a goal of re-releasing devices such as paddles, extension cables, joysticks and, more importantly, cartridges. Why would one put a SD Card slot if they are planning to sell carts? It would just kill the market for the console, it makes no sense at all.

From all criticism I did read here, the only one that is possible, is that the success of the plus ends up making the carts more expensive. But at same time, we have the option to buy new ones, that should hold prices a bit. For myself, I do think carts should be USD 20 and come with printed manuals. The first I know won't happen unless it sells big time, and understand the price is for the production costs of a not so big number of copies, but I do hope the second is fixed soon, so those new versions will be a good alternative to original ones. And, of course, there are the third party games that, right now, we know of no plans for being re-released. But that is it, appreciate the product for what it is, it is a console that play carts, much like the original 2600 before Harmony and other carts that load from SD existed, and it was nice to have even without a way to play roms 

One reason for wanting to be able to easily bring some digital file to the 2600+ is to test that a new game or demo does run on it properly before trying to make actual physical cartridges.
I don't need something able to select thousands of roms, but I'd like to be able to easily test some small program: Build on PC, transfer to the 2600+, test that it runs well.
Could be through the USB port, some fancy cartridge that supports uploading of files, whatever.

There are legit reason for wanting to run that sort of stuff
 

[protomank]

Just now, Dbug said:

One reason for wanting to be able to easily bring some digital file to the 2600+ is to test that a new game or demo does run on it properly before trying to make actual physical cartridges.
I don't need something able to select thousands of roms, but I'd like to be able to easily test some small program: Build on PC, transfer to the 2600+, test that it runs well.
Could be through the USB port, some fancy cartridge that supports uploading of files, whatever.

There are legit reason for wanting to run that sort of stuff
 

If your rom works on Stella, it should run on the 2600. But the thing is that the 2600 has two step process, the first one is the dumper, that can fail, and it loading roms on it will not test that part at all, so you still need a cart for that testing.

 

And we all know the plus will be hacked at some point, so if you really need it, it will be possible

[Dbug]

2 minutes ago, protomank said:

If your rom works on Stella, it should run on the 2600. But the thing is that the 2600 has two step process, the first one is the dumper, that can fail, and it loading roms on it will not test that part at all, so you still need a cart for that testing.

I was more thinking in term of playability: Things like analog controllers are fiddly, and the experience of trying something with the original CX40+ on a TV can be quites different from using an emulator on a PC.

[protomank]

1 minute ago, Dbug said:

I was more thinking in term of playability: Things like analog controllers are fiddly, and the experience of trying something with the original CX40+ on a TV can be quites different from using an emulator on a PC.

Oh yeah, colors on a LCD are tottally different also. But just keep patience a bit. That USB port in the PCB will soon be very useful, I bet.

But I do not believe it is up to the manufacturer to provice a way, you know? All those mini consoles have not a way to play roms by default, but we know how it ended up being turned into emulation machines - I do use my PSX Mini for playing Atari, because it is easier than having to reach the console for select/start all the time, having saves and cheats, etc. But I will want to have a 2600+ to play my cart collection, as both my Dactar and 2600 Junior are not the most reliable devices even after I sent them for changing to new capcityors and PCB cleaning, and the composite to HDMI is not the best thing

[Dbug]

Oh don't get me wrong, I'm not putting the charge of providing that on the people making the Atari 2600+: Their part is ensuring that the device work for what was advertised: Take your old cartridges for Atari 2600 and 7800, and they will work (* with some documented exception).
My question/wishes are more for the users and the community.

I've done 6502 code for many years, but never touched the VCS, so it's something I wish to tackle with, but not just in emulation, the idea is to have the spirit of playing with something that looks like a woodgrain console in the living room, using the hand destroying stiff joysticks of back in the days 😅

[SparkleFork]

16 hours ago, infinite.pies said:

I understand where you're coming from, but I do find it interesting how little value is often put on gaming these days.

 

Back in around 1980 when I got my Atari as a 13 year-old kid, the cost of the console in the UK where I was living at the time was £100 (US $127). With inflation, that would be around £410 (US $520) today.

 

The Space Invaders cartridge was £28 (US $35), which would be around £114 (US $144) in today's money.

 

My parents managed to buy me the console for Christmas, even though it was a lot of money for them. I used to save for months to buy a new cartridge. The anticipation would be a big part of the enjoyment, and I must have spent hundreds of hours playing the games. I never felt it was overpriced, even though it was a huge stretch to buy. The cost per hour of fun was well worth it.

 

That's why this new release is so important to people like me. Playing those original cartridges on new hardware is just a joy. I understand that not everyone can afford it, but to me it's priceless.

 

I'll put my violin away now while I play Adventure just one more time.

Absolutely. It's strange to be able to walk into CEX now and buy current gen titles for a tenner, when I could only get an Atari 2600 cart for Xmas or birthdays IF I was lucky. Compared to a lot of retro games, HERO is still on the affordable side (mine cost me the same as a brand new PS5 game) and I knew I wanted the experience of playing an original cart (via emulation of course) with an authentic feeling joystick. Totally worth the money.

[donjn]

4 hours ago, protomank said:

Guy, you need to realize that the Plus and nother machines have a complete different market direction.

If you just want to load roms, get an Atari and Activision collection for your PC or Playstation and have fun - let's jsut pretend no one here will be doing piracy and downloading roms from internet

 

Now, the 2600+ has a goal of re-releasing devices such as paddles, extension cables, joysticks and, more importantly, cartridges. Why would one put a SD Card slot if they are planning to sell carts? It would just kill the market for the console, it makes no sense at all.

From all criticism I did read here, the only one that is possible, is that the success of the plus ends up making the carts more expensive. But at same time, we have the option to buy new ones, that should hold prices a bit. For myself, I do think carts should be USD 20 and come with printed manuals. The first I know won't happen unless it sells big time, and understand the price is for the production costs of a not so big number of copies, but I do hope the second is fixed soon, so those new versions will be a good alternative to original ones. And, of course, there are the third party games that, right now, we know of no plans for being re-released. But that is it, appreciate the product for what it is, it is a console that play carts, much like the original 2600 before Harmony and other carts that load from SD existed, and it was nice to have even without a way to play roms 

I would agree with you 100% if this was an FPGA solution. If it was an FPGA solution it would make more sense not to have a menu or a way to load roms.

But lets call this thing what it is, a ROM dumper, not unlike Retron 77 or the Atari Flashback.

 

And yes, we are all aware of a different market direction.

 

It is less useful than Stella on your PC
It is less useful than Retron 77 (which can take multicarts AND SD cards)

It is less useful than Gamestaiton Pro (which can take SD cards)
It is less useful than an Atari Flashback (which again has an SD card)
It is less useful than the Atari 50th Anniversary Collection
It is more expensive than all of the above by a long shot because you have to buy games
It was designed PURPOSELY to not allow you to add roms....because they want to sell you Outlaw for $60 and other games for $30 a pop.

 

The ONLY thing it has going for it is the look and feel of plugging in a cartridge. Now, if that's important to you then great!

But we are allowed to voice our opinions on this forum.

 

Quote

From all criticism I did read here, the only one that is possible, is that the success of the plus ends up making the carts more expensive. But at same time, we have the option to buy new ones, that should hold prices a bit.

You do understand this sentence alone is ridiculous. You can buy Outlaw for $5 on Ebay but if the Atari 2600+ becomes huge and things like Outlaw become $20, you can always buy it for $60 from Atari! This should hold the prices....

Edited November 29, 2023 by donjn

[John Stamos Mullet]

7 minutes ago, donjn said:

 

 

It is less useful than Stella on your PC
It is less useful than Retron 77 (which can take multicarts AND SD cards)

It is less useful than Gamestaiton Pro (which can take SD cards)
It is less useful than an Atari Flashback (which again has an SD card)
It is less useful than the Atari 50th Anniversary Collection
It is more expensive than all of the above by a long shot because you have to buy games
It was designed PURPOSELY to not allow you to add roms....because they want to sell you Outlaw for $60 and other games for $30 a pop.

 

The ONLY thing it has going for it is the look and feel of plugging in a cartridge. Now, if that's important to you then great!

But we are allowed to voice our opinions on this forum.

1. In its current state, it is running an older version of Stella, which will be updated in a firmware update to have the exact same compatibility as PC Stella.

 

2. The Retron 77 using SD carts is a result of the Retron selling poorly because barely anyone knows what it is outside of this website and a few other retro forums. 
 

3. The Gameststion pro is a hilarious disaster of a console, with terrible controls and syncing issues. 
 

4. I own 3 Atari flashbacks, none of them have an SD card slot. What on earth are you talking about?

 

5. The Atari Anniversary collection doesn’t include any of the hundreds of 3rd party 2600 games the 2600+ can play. 
 

“It’s more expensive because you HAVE TO BUY GAMES”

 

No - it’s priced correctly. As are the games. You’ve just been stealing them in the form of roms. It’s not “more expensive”, you’re just not allowed to be a thief when using this console.

 

[donjn]

2 minutes ago, John Stamos Mullet said:

1. In its current state, it is running an older version of Stella, which will be updated in a firmware update to have the exact same compatibility as PC Stella.

 

2. The Retron 77 using SD carts is a result of the Retron selling poorly because barely anyone knows what it is outside of this website and a few other retro forums. 
 

3. The Gameststion pro is a hilarious disaster of a console, with terrible controls and syncing issues. 
 

4. I own 3 Atari flashbacks, none of them have an SD card slot. What on earth are you talking about?

 

5. The Atari Anniversary collection doesn’t include any of the hundreds of 3rd party 2600 games the 2600+ can play. 
 

“It’s more expensive because you HAVE TO BUY GAMES”

 

No - it’s priced correctly. As are the games. You’ve just been stealing them in the form of roms. It’s not “more expensive”, you’re just not allowed to be a thief when using this console.

 

Don't you dare call me a thief. I own about 100 Atari cartridges, which are the ones I would play conveniently using emulation. This is not about free..

Ive been pushing for a way to buy ROMS legally for years.
Things like Deepstone Catacomb as a digital rom download for $19.99 etc, etc..

 

I think its hyperbole to call the Gamestation Pro a "hilarious disaster". You are starting to come off as a bit of an Atari white knight.. While I don't think it is a great console, its not a hilarious disaster.

 

The Atari Flashback 9 has an SD slot and you can add roms to ALL of them.

[tradyblix]

22 minutes ago, donjn said:

You can buy Outlaw for $5 on Ebay but if the Atari 2600+ becomes huge and things like Outlaw become $20, you can always buy it for $60 from Atari! This should hold the prices....

Well, the desirable, rare games out there are already in the 50-60 dollar range on eBay for a beat up cart. Sure you can get a ton of 5 dollar combat or space invaders carts but yeah... the market has already put some "Complete In Box" sets to like several hundred bucks, some close to a thousand if in "9.8" type condition - that's the collectors market.... 

[Thomas Jentzsch]

9 minutes ago, John Stamos Mullet said:

1. In its current state, it is running an older version of Stella, which will be updated in a firmware update to have the exact same compatibility as PC Stella.

This is wrong. It runs the latest Stella (6.7).

9 minutes ago, John Stamos Mullet said:

2. The Retron 77 using SD carts is a result of the Retron selling poorly because barely anyone knows what it is outside of this website and a few other retro forums. 

How does that change the point?

9 minutes ago, John Stamos Mullet said:

No - it’s priced correctly.

Then, why does the R77 go for that much less? 

9 minutes ago, John Stamos Mullet said:

As are the games. You’ve just been stealing them in the form of roms. It’s not “more expensive”, you’re just not allowed to be a thief when using this console.

AtariAge is selling loose, new homebrews starting from $25. Atari is asking more than 2x the money.

Edited November 29, 2023 by Thomas Jentzsch

[tradyblix]

I honestly think that some people don't appreciate this device. I mean and that's fine - it won't be for everyone.

 

It's gotten me playing and collecting carts again for the first time in 40 years. I'm a person that already has had, for 20 years, aacccess to roms, just like everyone else.

 

I'm loving the ease of use and setup and how it looks. And I'm using my preferred controllers and not some emu-devices controls. 

 

I'm enjoying the hunt and bargaining to not overpay for some cool carts "the best 2600 and 7800 games ONLY".

 

Does it make a ton of sense financially ? Well, not *really* but then neither did spending 3,000 on my last vacation to Florida, after which I had nothing but the vague feeling

of was that actually worth it ?

 

It makes me happy. It may not make others happy - then don't do it. Pretty simple equation to me. Want a rom device ? get one. Want this ? Get it. I don't regret it. 

 

I would actually like more carts to be compatible with it, I would love to pay for and play some of those games.... so I hope developers think about that, I can't be the only one. 

 

There's people out there actually calling me an "Atari Shill" for just feeling this way, it's ... sad.

Edited November 29, 2023 by tradyblix
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