Yosikuma Posted August 23, 2023 Share Posted August 23, 2023 I am curious why they would flat out discuss incompatibilities without attempting to fix them. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alex_79 Posted August 23, 2023 Share Posted August 23, 2023 8 hours ago, john_q_atari said: That is simply not true. Read the de10-nano technical documentation. The number of IO pins necessary depends on the game system and also on how the interface is designed. I was referring to MiSTer 2600 and 7800 core specifically (other systems are not relevant for this discussion), and what I got from past threads is that there aren't enough pins to implement cart slots for those. E.g. from this post: Quote [...] What you won't get from MISTer: - Instant, perfect accuracy. While most of mister's console cores are at or above the accuracy level of their most highly regarded software counterparts, it's not implicit that they will be written that way. It's easier to make a core accurate in HDL than Software though. - Fancy flashy UI's that scrape your ROMs and show you little pictures of everything. MiSTer has no GPU, so the FPGA has to use resources to process such things, which is not worth taking away from the cores themselves. - Some features. The most common one people miss is save states. While a few cores now have save states, most don't, because they are difficult to add in fpga designs. Also missing are things that don't work like original hardware could, like high resolution modes, 80mhz booster chips, etc. - Cart slots. There's not enough GPIO on the board for them, and part of the goal of the project is to remove the need for discontinued hardware. I admit that I'm not interested in the MiSTer project and haven't followed its development, so if that has changed, I stand corrected. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thomas Jentzsch Posted August 23, 2023 Share Posted August 23, 2023 5 hours ago, batari said: Well.. they actually can be dumped, in theory. I know, I was just short cutting. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thomas Jentzsch Posted August 23, 2023 Share Posted August 23, 2023 5 hours ago, batari said: Well.. they actually can be dumped, in theory. I know, I was just short cutting. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slacker Posted August 23, 2023 Share Posted August 23, 2023 While I don't see myself buying one of these (I have a bunch of working 2600s floating around) it is cool to see Atari actually trying to appease their fans. I hope this system delivers on its promise and isn't a flop. The one thing that makes me sort of wish I had some extra $$ floating around to spend on it is the 7800 aspect. I don't actually own a 7800 so it's cool to have both under one system. That said, I do really enjoy homebrew stuff so maybe this still wouldn't actually be the right choice for me in that regard either. I'm actually really interested in hearing about the quality of the new joysticks and paddles they're also releasing. They say they're compatible with the original system. If they're a nice quality it could be worth it for me to pick them up. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
akator Posted August 23, 2023 Share Posted August 23, 2023 9 hours ago, Jess Ragan said: This is stupid. It's a Rockchip, for crying out loud! If I wanted an Android powered system on a chip disguised as an Atari 2600, I'd just play the damn Atari Flashback I bought from a Wal-Mart back when they were all on clearance for ten bucks. (I should have bought that mutant bread loaf the Flashback Legends while I was at it. Oh well, hindsight!) Paying $120 too much for a game system that isn't hardware accurate and by Atari's own admission is not fully compatible with Atari games does not make me a happy panda. I have some brand loyalty to Atari, but not to the modern, funhouse mirror version of Atari, and there's not nearly enough brand loyalty to convince me to give them $130 for something at least a dozen devices in my house can already do. (And better, in the case of most of them.) I have a tabletop powered by the same Rockchip 3128 running Batocera (Linux), so the 2600+ is not necessarily Android. Despite the chip's age, it's still good for emulating old systems and significantly more powerful than the CPUs in most of the plug and play systems like Flashbacks. I can play 2600, arcade, tons of systems all the way up to PlayStation on that 3128 tabletop without any significant issues. That said, it is disappointing that the 2600+ won't be able to play many of the better ARM powered homebrew titles. I also have a R77, which I find to be great for the original run 2600 games, but it clearly can't handle the ARM homebrews. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thomas Jentzsch Posted August 23, 2023 Share Posted August 23, 2023 (edited) 52 minutes ago, akator said: That said, it is disappointing that the 2600+ won't be able to play many of the better ARM powered homebrew titles. I also have a R77, which I find to be great for the original run 2600 games, but it clearly can't handle the ARM homebrews. The Allwinner in the R77 and the Rockchip used here have about the same performance. What's the problem with the ARM games in Stella on R77? Which games are problematic? And how? It is Stella 6.6 and you do not have a R77 with faulty RAM, right? Edited August 23, 2023 by Thomas Jentzsch Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
82-T/A Posted August 23, 2023 Share Posted August 23, 2023 HATERS!!! I HATE YOU ALL!!! THIS IS THE MOST AMAZING THING EVER. HAHA... (but no seriously, I will buy all the extra ones you guys don't buy. I'm already thinking of ordering a second one because I'm crazy like that) 2 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
akator Posted August 23, 2023 Share Posted August 23, 2023 (edited) 18 minutes ago, Thomas Jentzsch said: The Allwinner in the R77 and the Rockchip used here have about the same performance. What's the problem with the ARM games in Stella on R77? Which games are problematic? And how? It is Stella 6.6 and you do not have a R77 with faulty RAM, right? My R77 is awesome, I don't even have significant paddle issues like others have reported. I love my R77 with Stella 6.6, you guys did amazing work making that a reality. I have no issues whatsoever playing ROMs from the micro SD card. The caveat is that so many homebrews are only available in cart, not digital, so without digital versions I can't play them on the R77, flash carts on the Atari 2600 or 7800, or any of my other emulation devices. Obviously I can play real carts on my 2600 and 7800. Edited August 23, 2023 by akator 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Goochman Posted August 23, 2023 Share Posted August 23, 2023 If the 2600+ works with any 7800 SD carts I will get one. If it cant run or be modified to run off an SD card then its not for me. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
akator Posted August 23, 2023 Share Posted August 23, 2023 If nothing else, the 2600+ will make an amazing RPi "Ultimate 2600" case when people get bored with it. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zzip Posted August 23, 2023 Share Posted August 23, 2023 34 minutes ago, 82-T/A said: HATERS!!! I HATE YOU ALL!!! THIS IS THE MOST AMAZING THING EVER. HAHA... (but no seriously, I will buy all the extra ones you guys don't buy. I'm already thinking of ordering a second one because I'm crazy like that) Maybe you should send the extras that you buy to the haters? That'll show them! Completely unlrelated: I HATE THIS THING! 1 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Atari Dogs Posted August 23, 2023 Share Posted August 23, 2023 I wish they would have gotten some customer feedback before finishing the design and having a close release date. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MaximRecoil Posted August 23, 2023 Share Posted August 23, 2023 (edited) It being emulation is a deal killer for me. It not having analog video outputs would be a deal killer too, had the deal not already been killed by emulation. One of the best things about the 2600 hardware is its responsiveness (no frame buffer, so no input lag). I can tell the difference in responsiveness when playing 2600 games in Stella, especially with games that I've played a lot on real hardware since childhood, like Space Attack. To make matters worse it only has a digital video output, which means you get display lag to go on top of your input lag. Even if you use a digital-to-analog video signal converter and connect it to a CRT, you'll still get display lag because the digital signal has to be processed; it can't directly drive the CRT's electron guns like an analog video signal does. Edited August 23, 2023 by MaximRecoil 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
leech Posted August 23, 2023 Share Posted August 23, 2023 49 minutes ago, Atari Dogs said: I wish they would have gotten some customer feedback before finishing the design and having a close release date. Curious what you would change? I would have wanted a heavy sixer, myself. Definitely would be better if it were FPGA. In fact this is one of the perfect examples of why FPGA doesn't count as emulation. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Laner Posted August 23, 2023 Share Posted August 23, 2023 I'm definitely more interested in this than the VCS, but I'm still having a hard time pulling the trigger on the purchase. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
leech Posted August 23, 2023 Share Posted August 23, 2023 2 hours ago, akator said: I have a tabletop powered by the same Rockchip 3128 running Batocera (Linux), so the 2600+ is not necessarily Android. Despite the chip's age, it's still good for emulating old systems and significantly more powerful than the CPUs in most of the plug and play systems like Flashbacks. I can play 2600, arcade, tons of systems all the way up to PlayStation on that 3128 tabletop without any significant issues. That said, it is disappointing that the 2600+ won't be able to play many of the better ARM powered homebrew titles. I also have a R77, which I find to be great for the original run 2600 games, but it clearly can't handle the ARM homebrews. I honestly think that this is what the VCS should have been. A Linux system that has a Cart port for real 2600/7800 carts, but also with its own library. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+sm3 Posted August 23, 2023 Share Posted August 23, 2023 I'm in! Hopefully it will be worth the $129! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jfcatari Posted August 23, 2023 Share Posted August 23, 2023 I am in too. Will test with unocart, harmony cart, and concerto cart. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thomas Jentzsch Posted August 23, 2023 Share Posted August 23, 2023 1 minute ago, Jfcatari said: Will test with unocart, harmony cart, and concerto cart. Save your time. 6 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
leech Posted August 23, 2023 Share Posted August 23, 2023 37 minutes ago, Jfcatari said: I am in too. Will test with unocart, harmony cart, and concerto cart. I have a dragon cart to add to those. But everyone is assuming it won't work as this is emulation/rom dumping vs FPGA. 36 minutes ago, Thomas Jentzsch said: Save your time. I am curious about something, do you happen to know if the way this works on similar set ups that it just reads some hash from the cart then unlicks what is already on the device, or does it just dump the whole cart into RAM and execute? Seems the multisystem ones would have to do the latter. I bought one of the funky colored ones (Hyperkin?), only to find out flash carts don't work on it... ha, but I do have an Analouge Super NT because I didn't want to hunt down a working SNES, and it happily works fine. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mufla Posted August 23, 2023 Share Posted August 23, 2023 Anyone know if their "Bezerk Enhanced" is a reissue of the Atariage store version? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cardboard76 Posted August 23, 2023 Share Posted August 23, 2023 this is a godsend for guys like me who don't have CRTs, or have CRTs with broken RF outputs. i am honestly going to get this for Christmas, heh. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
leech Posted August 23, 2023 Share Posted August 23, 2023 52 minutes ago, Cardboard76 said: this is a godsend for guys like me who don't have CRTs, or have CRTs with broken RF outputs. i am honestly going to get this for Christmas, heh. And for those that still do, you can get adapters that go from HDMI -> VGA. I kind of want to hook some of my newer computers up to a CRT, since in a lot of ways CRT is still far superior to LCD. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
polyex Posted August 23, 2023 Share Posted August 23, 2023 On 8/22/2023 at 7:18 AM, King_Salamon said: As soon as I can order one in Canada, I will definitely order one of everything. Not because I need a new system but this will give me an HDMI 2600 that allows me to play 7800 and also gives me new paddles to use! (Sure beats having to open up and cleaning old jitter paddles) I hope to see this stuff on shelves in Canada and other countries. This is more of what an Atari Flashback should have been in my eyes. Not 100% compatible is fine with me. I have my old faithful 2600 for those and the homebrews but this one can be on display and hooked up all the time. Man, I'm excited for this. lol I did not know it came with paddles , I thought it came with one wired joystick Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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