The new Atari 2600+ w/HDMI out and 2600/7800 support

[Thomas Jentzsch]

5 minutes ago, 82-T/A said:

Again, in general... if the Atari 2600+ is not for you, then why so many messages complaining about how it doesn't do this or doesn't do that

Because many people are asking questions? People are just answering them. If you do not like the answers, that's your problem.

[+splendidnut]

So far, on paper, this system looks to be better than the Retron 77.  Better appearance, 7800 support, and a company that looks like it actually cares about compatibility to the degree that they actually have a publicly-viewable compatibility list in progress.

 

I'm on the fence about it, more-or-less, because I'd rather see an FPGA-based system that could run everything (or almost everything), including flashcarts.  But overall, I'm interested in seeing where this goes.

 

Personally, I do not want to see these discussions shutdown because someone doesn't like the criticism aimed at this product.  I'd prefer to see reasonable arguments put up against the criticism.

[Thomas Jentzsch]

4 minutes ago, splendidnut said:

I'd prefer to see reasonable arguments put up against the criticism.

It's from "Atari".  

[SIO2]

The 2600+ is certainly interesting and a step in the right direction.  This is the kind of thing we hoped for years ago.  But will it work in today's market?  Will be interesting to see.

 

BTW ATARI, Thank you for the 7800 support.

 

 

Edited August 24, 2023 by SIO2

[+bent_pin]

How many working carts will be bought off ebay working, jammed into this thing, and then returned as not working because of incompatibility? Going to have to consider that when listing games for sale. I don't mind giving refunds for proper returns, but I do mind paying shipping both ways for someone who doesn't understand compatibility issues.

[82-T/A]

29 minutes ago, bent_pin said:

How many working carts will be bought off ebay working, jammed into this thing, and then returned as not working because of incompatibility? Going to have to consider that when listing games for sale. I don't mind giving refunds for proper returns, but I do mind paying shipping both ways for someone who doesn't understand compatibility issues.

 

I mean, there are 3 confirmed out of like 100+ games in the list that are stated as incompatible. So I don't know, but I don't think it will be a huge problem.

 

[+bent_pin]

1 minute ago, 82-T/A said:

 

I mean, there are 3 confirmed out of like 100+ games in the list that are stated as incompatible. So I don't know, but I don't think it will be a huge problem.

 

I appreciate your excitement, but 100+ is less than 10% of the available carts. 

Don't worry about my comments here, I am not trying to discourage you. I'm sure many people will enjoy this, but I do see issues for many others as well.

[WaverBoy]

36 minutes ago, SIO2 said:

The 2600+ is certainly interesting and a step in the right direction.  This is the kind of thing we hoped for years ago.  But will it work in today's market?  Will be interesting to see.

 

BTW ATARI, Thank you for the 7800 support.

 

 

It’s really not though. It’s another low-end romdumper. And unlike the R77, you can’t upgrade the firmware to a far superior community build and you can’t run ROMs from an SD card as a convenience and/or game compatibility workaround. 

[Albert Penello]

17 minutes ago, 82-T/A said:

 

I mean, there are 3 confirmed out of like 100+ games in the list that are stated as incompatible. So I don't know, but I don't think it will be a huge problem.

 

There are thousands of games, and they got to pick the 100. What's absent is any of the known problematic carts, or any new homebrew titles. This is what's leading those who know to conclude this unit will have the same (or worse) limitations as other existing devices. 

That said - I'm sure for standard, run of the mill vintage carts, it's going to work fine. 

But as a replacement for vintage hardware, for those who buy the latest homebrews and want to play on a modern screen, this unit won't work. 

 

[SIO2]

26 minutes ago, WaverBoy said:

It’s really not though. It’s another low-end romdumper. And unlike the R77, you can’t upgrade the firmware to a far superior community build and you can’t run ROMs from an SD card as a convenience and/or game compatibility workaround. 

 

It is though because, I think it is much better than a flashback and it supports 7800. 

 

I said 7800!  Did you see that! 

 

LOL

Edited August 24, 2023 by SIO2

[+Living Room Arcade]

7 hours ago, toddtmw said:

Okay. I don’t have an R77. But they seem to be about half the price as the 2600+. 
 

can anyone give me a brief list of differences and/or pros and cons between the two?
 

Thanks

@toddtmw My thoughts.  Hope it's helpful.  

 

Four ways to play Atari 2600 games are:

 

1.  Original Atari VCS/2600 from 1970's and 1980's

- Not an emulator.  Has motherboard with TIA and other chips to render your games on your TV.

That's good.  It means perfection.  Emulators always have flaws.  If you have this, then every cart will work perfectly.

- The problem is they're so old and not making them any more.  You'll pay a lot to get one that might need to be refurbished.

- Works with the Harmony Cart, which has SD card.  Load all of your games.  Visit Atari Mania and download the HC Rom set, complete with box art.  It's awesome IMO.  

- Uses 9-pin controllers, obviously.  

 

2.  Retron 77

- First, update Stella and then install all of your Atari 2600 ROMS.  

- You'll need some 9-pin controllers such as Hyperkin Trooper or 1970's OEM refurbished or the new ones at Atari.com.  

If I understand this right, then what you will have is an emulator console running the latest version of Stella, capable of running any ROM that Stella can run, which is many, including I think Champ Games and all the new homebrews, whether they are ROMS on SD card or physical carts.

- Probably can also run all new carts such as Mr. Run and Jump, Circus Convoy and others that you only can find on carts.  

- Some people say there is a lag in paddle response, but others claim that there is a setting in your TV menu that can eliminate it and then works perfectly.  Look for 'video game mode' or something in your TV menu.

 

3.  New Atari 2600+

- An emulator console running Stella (let us assume it is the latest version) but maybe there is no way to ever update it.  A big disadvantage if true.

- No SD card, so no ROMS.  Another big disadvantage.  

- Like R77, also uses 9-pin controllers such as Trooper, OEM or new ones at Atari.com.

 

4.  PC/Stella

- Runs every ROM that Stella can run

- No way to run carts since no one manufactures a USB cart reader.  

- Using a 2600-daptor, you can play using 9-pin controllers

 

My opinion:

 

The best option, if you can find it, is #1 original Atari VCS/2600 hardware.  Every cart or ROM ever made will work on it.  And the Harmony Cart works, too, which is an enormously large list of games, though not all.  There is community support for HC, so updated HC ROM sets are released from time to time at Atari Mania.  And zero paddle lag on old, original consoles!  Get brand new paddles at Atari.com and experience paddle gaming bliss!  

 

The second best option IMO is the Hyperkin Retron 77.  This emulator console is supported by the Stella community.  Meaning, check the Stella download page, you will see that every time a new version of Stella is released, an R77 version is also released.  (Look for "r77-firmware-ng 6.6.0    Complete distribution and port for the RetroN 77".)  Then head to Atari Mania or Archive.org and download curated ROM sets containing thousands of ROMS and put onto SD card.  What you end up with is a brand new console with simulated wood grain finish that plays any game that Stella can play, whether it is a cart or a ROM on SD card.  And that's thousands of games, including, I think, nearly all new homebrews and Champ Games.  But beware, there might be some paddle lag.  

 

The third best option IMO is running Stella on your PC.  Your PC outputs video in HDMI, ready to plug straight into your living room TV.  Stella on your PC lets you pair modern Bluetooth controllers.  Or use 9-pin controllers via 2600-daptor for a more authentic, old school feel.  The big problem is you can't play any carts this way since there is no USB cart reader for PC.  Everything must be ROMS.  So, no Mr. Run and Jump if you choose this option.

 

IMO the fourth best option would be the new Atari 2600+ console.  It's an emulator and let us assume it's running the latest version of Stella.  That's great.  But the console has no SD card and seems to have no way to update Stella.  That will be a big problem years down the road.  All of the newest and most exciting games seem to need the latest version of Stella.  Buying into a console that can't be updated is probably a bad idea IMO.  And no SD card, means only carts, no ROMS.  

 

My recommendation would be #1 (OEM console) or #2 (R77) and go to Atari.com and buy brand new 9-pin joysticks and paddles to go with it.  

 

Happy gaming!  

Edited August 24, 2023 by Living Room Arcade

[SIO2]

So I don't know much about the flash carts like UNO or Harmony.  I guess they won't work with 2600+ because there is no interaction between the dumper and the processor on the flash cart.  So, no way to use a fancy menu.  But, could a cart be made that emulates an eprom cart?  Just a dumb little device that takes a rom from an SD card and puts it onto an nvram or something so that the Atari could pick it up like a standard cart?  There wouldn't be any fancy menu and you would have to load roms onto micro SD one at a time but, does that sound like something that could happen?

 

Could a dumb flash cart be made with 24c256 ?

 

Edited August 24, 2023 by SIO2
spleling

[82-T/A]

8 minutes ago, SIO2 said:

So I don't know much about the flash carts like UNO or Harmony.  I guess they won't work with 2600+ because there is no interaction between the dumper and the processor on the flash cart.  So, no way to use a fancy menu.  But, could a cart be made that emulates an eprom cart?  Just a dumb little device that takes a rom from an SD card and puts it onto an nvram or something so that the Atari could pick it up like a standard cart?  There wouldn't be any fancy menu and you would have to load roms onto micro SD one at a time but, does that sound like something that could happen?

 

 

I used to have a CuttleCart2, and someone on AtariAge was like, "I will do anything you want if you sell it to me..." and I said, hell no... I won't let it go for anything less than $500 bucks. And I was being facetious... but the guy really wanted it, so he PM'ed me and said... "Sold." This was like almost 15 years ago. So, I sold it to him for $500, and offered to pay for shipping because I felt bad. I still felt bad that I made him pay $500 for it, but he viewed it as something amazing apparently.

 

I can barely remember this system, but I seem to recall that WHEN I loaded up that car, it actually allowed me to select a game from the SD-Card (or whatever memory card it used). But if it's doing a ROM dump, then it would download the menu system, but not actually the ROMS which woudl still be on the card.

 

I'm not entirely convinced that you cannot install an SD card or something like that in this Atari 2600+. It literally has a USB-C connector, and no one knows what the inside looks like. There might literally be an extra NVRAM slot on there for ROMs. The system was obviously designed for the people who just want a system to play... but again, I'm not convinced that you couldn't but a USB-C hub on there and install whatever you want... let alone even get it to boot up into the operating system and screw with it.

 

[zzip]

57 minutes ago, WaverBoy said:

And unlike the R77, you can’t upgrade the firmware to a far superior community build and you can’t run ROMs from an SD card as a convenience and/or game compatibility workaround. 

I think it's too early to say this.  It has been confirm it will accept firmware updates, and we don't know if people in the community will work on custom firmware.   It may not have SD, but it has USB (presumably that's how firmware updates are done?) and that might be usable to sideload roms that don't work on cart.

[Jfcatari]

Good point on the usb c port.  With a USB c hub attached it could have many possibilities!

[zzip]

3 minutes ago, Jfcatari said:

Good point on the usb c port.  With a USB c hub attached it could have many possibilities!

Assuming it supports hubs.   So many devices don't

 

[donjn]

1 hour ago, Living Room Arcade said:

@toddtmw My thoughts.  Hope it's helpful.  

 

Four ways to play Atari 2600 games are:

 

1.  Original Atari VCS/2600 from 1970's and 1980's

- Not an emulator.  Has motherboard with TIA and other chips to render your games on your TV.

That's good.  It means perfection.  Emulators always have flaws.  If you have this, then every cart will work perfectly.

- The problem is they're so old and not making them any more.  You'll pay a lot to get one that might need to be refurbished.

- Works with the Harmony Cart, which has SD card.  Load all of your games.  Visit Atari Mania and download the HC Rom set, complete with box art.  It's awesome IMO.  

- Uses 9-pin controllers, obviously.  

 

2.  Retron 77

- First, update Stella and then install all of your Atari 2600 ROMS.  

- You'll need some 9-pin controllers such as Hyperkin Trooper or 1970's OEM refurbished or the new ones at Atari.com.  

If I understand this right, then what you will have is an emulator console running the latest version of Stella, capable of running any ROM that Stella can run, which is many, including I think Champ Games and all the new homebrews, whether they are ROMS on SD card or physical carts.

- Probably can also run all new carts such as Mr. Run and Jump, Circus Convoy and others that you only can find on carts.  

- Some people say there is a lag in paddle response, but others claim that there is a setting in your TV menu that can eliminate it and then works perfectly.  Look for 'video game mode' or something in your TV menu.

 

3.  New Atari 2600+

- An emulator console running Stella (let us assume it is the latest version) but maybe there is no way to ever update it.  A big disadvantage if true.

- No SD card, so no ROMS.  Another big disadvantage.  

- Like R77, also uses 9-pin controllers such as Trooper, OEM or new ones at Atari.com.

 

4.  PC/Stella

- Runs every ROM that Stella can run

- No way to run carts since no one manufactures a USB cart reader.  

- Using a 2600-daptor, you can play using 9-pin controllers

 

My opinion:

 

The best option, if you can find it, is #1 original Atari VCS/2600 hardware.  Every cart or ROM ever made will work on it.  And the Harmony Cart works, too, which is an enormously large list of games, though not all.  There is community support for HC, so updated HC ROM sets are released from time to time at Atari Mania.  And zero paddle lag on old, original consoles!  Get brand new paddles at Atari.com and experience paddle gaming bliss!  

 

The second best option IMO is the Hyperkin Retron 77.  This emulator console is supported by the Stella community.  Meaning, check the Stella download page, you will see that every time a new version of Stella is released, an R77 version is also released.  (Look for "r77-firmware-ng 6.6.0    Complete distribution and port for the RetroN 77".)  Then head to Atari Mania or Archive.org and download curated ROM sets containing thousands of ROMS and put onto SD card.  What you end up with is a brand new console with simulated wood grain finish that plays any game that Stella can play, whether it is a cart or a ROM on SD card.  And that's thousands of games, including, I think, nearly all new homebrews and Champ Games.  But beware, there might be some paddle lag.  

 

The third best option IMO is running Stella on your PC.  Your PC outputs video in HDMI, ready to plug straight into your living room TV.  Stella on your PC lets you pair modern Bluetooth controllers.  Or use 9-pin controllers via 2600-daptor for a more authentic, old school feel.  The big problem is you can't play any carts this way since there is no USB cart reader for PC.  Everything must be ROMS.  So, no Mr. Run and Jump if you choose this option.

 

IMO the fourth best option would be the new Atari 2600+ console.  It's an emulator and let us assume it's running the latest version of Stella.  That's great.  But the console has no SD card and seems to have no way to update Stella.  That will be a big problem years down the road.  All of the newest and most exciting games seem to need the latest version of Stella.  Buying into a console that can't be updated is probably a bad idea IMO.  And no SD card, means only carts, no ROMS.  

 

My recommendation would be #1 (OEM console) or #2 (R77) and go to Atari.com and buy brand new 9-pin joysticks and paddles to go with it.  

 

Happy gaming!  

Nice post. Question though.

I am very sensitive to movement timing and smoothness.

To me, it is either the real thing or Stella on a HIGH END PC. Reason being is that I tried the Atari Flashback Anniversary and did my H.E.R.O. test. Not smooth at all and slightly jumpy. I think this is because if you are going to have an emulator like Stella, it cant be on cheaper hardware like the Flashback. How is the Retron 77 in regards to movement? Thanks!

 

Edited August 24, 2023 by donjn

[ledzep]

3 hours ago, bent_pin said:

How many working carts will be bought off ebay working, jammed into this thing, and then returned as not working because of incompatibility? Going to have to consider that when listing games for sale. I don't mind giving refunds for proper returns, but I do mind paying shipping both ways for someone who doesn't understand compatibility issues.

 

Well, the obvious solution would be for you (or whoever sells carts on eBay) to buy one of these 2600+s and test any carts up for sale on it.  I would think that that service would gain you customer loyalty or confidence or whatever, they'd more readily buy from you than someone who couldn't be bothered to do a simple game test.  Tested, works on real hardware and 2600+.

[toddtmw]

2 hours ago, Living Room Arcade said:

@toddtmw My thoughts.  Hope it's helpful.  

 

Four ways to play Atari 2600 games are:

 

1.  Original Atari VCS/2600 from 1970's and 1980's

- Not an emulator.  Has motherboard with TIA and other chips to render your games on your TV.

That's good.  It means perfection.  Emulators always have flaws.  If you have this, then every cart will work perfectly.

- The problem is they're so old and not making them any more.  You'll pay a lot to get one that might need to be refurbished.

- Works with the Harmony Cart, which has SD card.  Load all of your games.  Visit Atari Mania and download the HC Rom set, complete with box art.  It's awesome IMO.  

- Uses 9-pin controllers, obviously.  

 

2.  Retron 77

- First, update Stella and then install all of your Atari 2600 ROMS.  

- You'll need some 9-pin controllers such as Hyperkin Trooper or 1970's OEM refurbished or the new ones at Atari.com.  

If I understand this right, then what you will have is an emulator console running the latest version of Stella, capable of running any ROM that Stella can run, which is many, including I think Champ Games and all the new homebrews, whether they are ROMS on SD card or physical carts.

- Probably can also run all new carts such as Mr. Run and Jump, Circus Convoy and others that you only can find on carts.  

- Some people say there is a lag in paddle response, but others claim that there is a setting in your TV menu that can eliminate it and then works perfectly.  Look for 'video game mode' or something in your TV menu.

 

3.  New Atari 2600+

- An emulator console running Stella (let us assume it is the latest version) but maybe there is no way to ever update it.  A big disadvantage if true.

- No SD card, so no ROMS.  Another big disadvantage.  

- Like R77, also uses 9-pin controllers such as Trooper, OEM or new ones at Atari.com.

 

4.  PC/Stella

- Runs every ROM that Stella can run

- No way to run carts since no one manufactures a USB cart reader.  

- Using a 2600-daptor, you can play using 9-pin controllers

 

My opinion:

 

The best option, if you can find it, is #1 original Atari VCS/2600 hardware.  Every cart or ROM ever made will work on it.  And the Harmony Cart works, too, which is an enormously large list of games, though not all.  There is community support for HC, so updated HC ROM sets are released from time to time at Atari Mania.  And zero paddle lag on old, original consoles!  Get brand new paddles at Atari.com and experience paddle gaming bliss!  

 

The second best option IMO is the Hyperkin Retron 77.  This emulator console is supported by the Stella community.  Meaning, check the Stella download page, you will see that every time a new version of Stella is released, an R77 version is also released.  (Look for "r77-firmware-ng 6.6.0    Complete distribution and port for the RetroN 77".)  Then head to Atari Mania or Archive.org and download curated ROM sets containing thousands of ROMS and put onto SD card.  What you end up with is a brand new console with simulated wood grain finish that plays any game that Stella can play, whether it is a cart or a ROM on SD card.  And that's thousands of games, including, I think, nearly all new homebrews and Champ Games.  But beware, there might be some paddle lag.  

 

The third best option IMO is running Stella on your PC.  Your PC outputs video in HDMI, ready to plug straight into your living room TV.  Stella on your PC lets you pair modern Bluetooth controllers.  Or use 9-pin controllers via 2600-daptor for a more authentic, old school feel.  The big problem is you can't play any carts this way since there is no USB cart reader for PC.  Everything must be ROMS.  So, no Mr. Run and Jump if you choose this option.

 

IMO the fourth best option would be the new Atari 2600+ console.  It's an emulator and let us assume it's running the latest version of Stella.  That's great.  But the console has no SD card and seems to have no way to update Stella.  That will be a big problem years down the road.  All of the newest and most exciting games seem to need the latest version of Stella.  Buying into a console that can't be updated is probably a bad idea IMO.  And no SD card, means only carts, no ROMS.  

 

My recommendation would be #1 (OEM console) or #2 (R77) and go to Atari.com and buy brand new 9-pin joysticks and paddles to go with it.  

 

Happy gaming!  

Thanks. Except for Homebrew, which (I assume) would mostly only work on original hardware (Unless it uses a legacy supported bank-switching method and not an undocumented "quirk" of the hardware, is there any reason to have a cartridge port? I have a real 2600 and I have a fair number of carts, but I never actually use them because it is too easy to run from a Raspberry Pi or a computer without having to go chase down physical cartridges. I have a Nintendo Switch and I do not buy ANY real cartridges because I don't want to deal with keeping track of them. That convenience is worth more to me than what I might be able to sell the cartridges for if I stop playing the game.

 

thanks.

 

[+MrZarniwoop]

6 hours ago, chad5200 said:

Does anyone know if the PlusCart works with a modded Flashback 2?

Yup. Although there are some text glitches onscreen for the PlusCart menus. It works though and you can see enough to select games. Once a game is loaded it’s all good.

[+bent_pin]

2 hours ago, ledzep said:

 

Well, the obvious solution would be for you (or whoever sells carts on eBay) to buy one of these 2600+s and test any carts up for sale on it.  I would think that that service would gain you customer loyalty or confidence or whatever, they'd more readily buy from you than someone who couldn't be bothered to do a simple game test.  Tested, works on real hardware and 2600+.

Darn you and your quality logic and reasonable solution. I guess I'll add it to the collection for testing purposes. It will be my bastard 2600.

[82-T/A]

Hey, does anyone know if these modern Atari systems, like the Retron 77 or the 2600+ (presumably) support stereo sound?

 

I can't remember how or where I heard this, but I think it was when I was modding one of my 2600s years ago, I discovered that you can in fact hook up a left and right channel, and that it doesn't have to be mono. I think I was told maybe even on here that a certain number of games actually have built in stereo support by design (like Combat), and a few others, but it never mattered because the system was shipped as mono.

 

Anyone know if that changes with Stella emulation?

[Greg2600]

Seems like a nice option.  New sticks and paddles too. 

[BIGHMW]

Got a 2600 Jr. Got Flashback CX40 joysticks. Getting CX30 paddles. Got CX80 trak-ball. Got Harmony Encore. Got power adapter coming in the mail by Tuesday if not by Saturday. Got RF-to-HDMI converter. Got my perfect replacement for my Flashback 9. Got what I need... for now.

[+swlovinist]

There is some speculation going on right now until WE KNOW what the device is capable of.   Over time it will reveal itself.   I am hopeful that this will be in the right direction and having 7800 cart support for me is huge.