Anyone care to check something for me. . . .

[Kirk_Johnston]

Note: Everything was converted using Rilden's Tiled Palette Quantization tool, so all the colours and colours-per-tile limits, bits per channel, etc., should be fully accurate to each of the consoles. And they were all converted using the same settings for the shared colour index, dithering, and the like too, with no touch-up or alteration to the output image quality. If I have it correct, all three games would use one background layer for the main background using the max amount of colours they can display for this as standard. On Genesis the foreground tiles would use the second BG layer and the sprites the sprites, plus everything shares the same 4 16-colour palettes. On PC Engine the foreground tiles and the sprites would use the sprites, plus the main background uses 16 16-colour palettes and the sprites use a seperate 16 16-colour palettes. On SNES the foreground tiles would use the second BG layer and the sprites the sprites, plus everything shares the same single 256-colour palette as I'm using Mode 4 here. And, just in case, it should be obvious these are not supposed to be actual tile maps but just representative images of the total colours, colour per 8x8 tile, colour depth, etc.

 

Genesis:

 

PC Engine:

 

SNES:

 

And the question is: Are the three examples above correct in terms of being accurate representations of the colour capabilities of each system in their standard modes [before any additional raster effects, shadow/highlight, colour math, etc. are applied], and if not, what did I get wrong?

 

I just want to make sure I've not made any silly mistakes here when representing the three systems and converting the images, and also to double check that I didn't accidently upload the unconverted ones, because some people really get stuck in the weeds with those kinds of things rather than remembering the actual point of my examples and concept mockups. And sometimes having a second checker helps to avoid little accidents like that.

 

And, just in case there's some confusion about the actual point of my examples and concept mockups, I'm simply trying to demonstrate accurate [enough] representations of some stuff on SNES that plays to its particular strengths over the other systems of the same console generation because I find that interesting to see and know some other people do too, exactly as we see people do on the other consoles regularly these days similarly. And it's something I'd actually like to see more of on SNES, so I'm contributing to that general school of thought as far as I am currently able.

 

Note: I'm not going to see comments from anyone I've Ignored, as per my signature, so someone else would need to pass on the answers if any of those people provide them. Thanks. 

Edited August 22, 2023 by Kirk_Johnston

[Kirk_Johnston]

Oh, and just in case you're wondering, this would be the SNES in 4bpp as you would get in standard Mode 1 for example, assuming I've not made any silly mistakes again:

Edited August 22, 2023 by Kirk_Johnston

[Biff Burgertime]

yeah looks great thx

[Wayler]

This is very important. History books will remember this event as the "Great conversion triangle" that ushered mankind to seek trivial differences in everything. We will finally travel beyond our solar system because of this. 

[Kirk_Johnston]

I probably also should have made it clear that these examples are based on my concept for a simple platformer example showing the SNES using Mode 4 to have a lovely 8bpp 256-colour background with some Super Mario Bros. style stuff in the foreground and Alucard running around with nice animation, as per this gameplay concept footage I had uploaded onto my YouTube channel previously, just in case you've not seen this before and were wondering why I included three totally different and apparently separate things in the images above:

 

Note: It was pointed out that I used the unconverted background image in this clip I uploaded--my sincere apologies if I've mislead anyone here by not noticing that I'd added the wrong file into my concept test when I recorded the footage--so you're really going to have to use your imagination and replace it in your mind with the one that's above showing the actual real 8bpp 256-colour for SNES [assuming I haven't made another terrible mistake] and just pretend all the glaring differences between the original unconverted however-many-colours art and the 8bpp 256-colour converted art are no longer there, as I will not be recording it all again with the proper background since I personally think it still conveys the actual point perfectly fine. I hope that's not too much to ask of you. Sorry again if it is.

 

And, just in case there's still some doubt and suspicion that I'm trying to dupe everyone here by using fake image examples to tell a bunch of lies and oversell the SNES' capabilities or I'm doing it all wrong because I can't program directly on SNES or whatever other real fears people might have, I'll post this clip with a bunch of actual 8bpp 15-bit SNES-accurate 256-colour images again, which really should all be properly converted images this time (feel free to check them just to make sure--God help me if they're not correct), to show exactly what SNES is capable of there:

 

And, again, just in case there's some confusion about the actual point of my examples and concept mockups, I'm simply trying to demonstrate accurate [enough] representations of some stuff on SNES that plays to its particular strengths over the other systems of the same console generation because I find that interesting to see and know some other people do too, exactly as we see people do on the other consoles regularly these days similarly. And it's something I'd actually like to see more of on SNES, so I'm contributing to that general school of thought as far as I am currently able.

Edited August 23, 2023 by Kirk_Johnston

[Mittens0407]

what massive amount of work you've done converting images you didn't make with a program you didn't write

 

Though it does seem odd that the authority on all things SNES is asking people for fact checks. Have you tried asking yourself?

[Kirk_Johnston]

Also, just in case you wanted to compare the differences between the three versions without having to open up an app or whatever, here's a wee gif to make the comparison much quicker and easier: 

 

Note: I'm on my phone, so I just used a free online tool to make a .gif out of the three images and upscaled it to twice the original image size to make it less strain on the old eyes, so hopefully that didn't change things dramatically--as I said, I'm on my phone so can't fully check this just now (sorry)--but I can personally see it obviously still shows the differences between each console's version more than clear enough.

 

And I presume most people would able to tell which is which, but, just to avoid any confusion, I'll point out that it goes Genesis, PC Engine then SNES. But what if you start looking midway through the gif . . .

 

Personally, I think the Genesis version looks too rough to be something I'd want to use in this way myself, the PC Engine version is acceptable (although the 4bpp SNES version I uploaded previously, which isn't in the gif, is better), and the 8bpp 256-colour SNES version looks great and shows a level of visual quality that would be more than good enough for me to be very happy using this approach in one of my own potential SNES projects in the future.

 

Hopefully some others find this concept and example as useful as I have when thinking about interesting approaches to new SNES game ideas.

 

I think that covers about everything I wanted to go over for now.

Edited August 23, 2023 by Kirk_Johnston

[Lost Monkey]

Ugh... more hard work...

[Wayler]

I think I've got it! 

 

Genesis: Mr Potato Head is contemplating mass murder but in the PCE and SNES versions realized he's just a potato. 

PCE: Alucard is clearly missing his underwear in this one, the lazy bastard. And I'll leave you with a thought: Is something under there? And does it function? 

SNES: The picture is used as evidence 34b in Nintendo's lawsuit for the misrepresentation of their IP. Sega and Hudson are not that anal and couldn't be bothered.

 

 

As for similarities, all of them will give you brain cancer if stared at for too long. As a remedy after a long exposure, I would suggest watching something useful that has gone through more effort, like growing your fingernail or the results of a bowel movement. 

[Tanooki]

So does like Anyone = multiple personalities?

 

I'm just asking because it seems like this is more of a personal sounding board for self gratification at this rate because anyone here with some base if not extensive knowledge of the SNES either is put on ignore, or won't speak up knowing it's like well...

 

Also this??? 

Note: I'm not going to see comments from anyone I've Ignored, as per my signature, so someone else would need to pass on the answers if any of those people provide them. Thanks. 

You can rightly go screw yourself.  Feel free to share this post, narcissist.

 

Careful @Lost Monkey you'll get added to the honor roll too.

Edited August 23, 2023 by Tanooki

[Wayler]

Ok, just to switch to serious mode for a second, I fail to see how this image comparison contributes to anything in any way. What is the purpose? 

 

I mistakenly read all this text but I genuinely do not know what the point of this is. Other than SNES Master Race hugraawr. 

[Tanooki]

I think it's more (being serious) of him working on confirmation bias towards the SNES as usual.  He wants to make sure he didn't flub that system let alone the others so he can back up his wild claims of what is an isn't possible.  The fact he's trying to reach out, yet not, by keeping us invisible hoping someone he isn't ignoring will paste any smart response he can weaponize is proof enough of that.  There really is no actual point to this since it represents nothing of what any of them can do given it's not being attempted on system or even within the scope of the systems actual capabilities.  It's like old early 90s era Marvel series of comics called 'What If???..." where a watcher posits some alt universe situation vs reality.

[Wayler]

Let's say there was this imaginary neutral entity that somehow got lost in this hell hole and reads the following:

9 hours ago, Kirk_Johnston said:

Note: It was pointed out that I used the unconverted background image in this clip I uploaded--my sincere apologies if I've mislead anyone here by not noticing that I'd added the wrong file into my concept test when I recorded the footage--so you're really going to have to use your imagination and replace it in your mind with the one that's above showing the actual real 8bpp 256-colour for SNES [assuming I haven't made another terrible mistake] and just pretend all the glaring differences between the original unconverted however-many-colours art and the 8bpp 256-colour converted art are no longer there, as I will not be recording it all again with the proper background since I personally think it still conveys the actual point perfectly fine. I hope that's not too much to ask of you. Sorry again if it is.

Like a puss-filled open sore, so much concealed venom and spite oozing from every word. It would be an interesting occasion to have a face-to-face conversation with him, about any subject really. Just to see how conducts himself. Because this is not how you convince people to do something for you. 

[Tanooki]

Eh, the classic ...eh fuck it response.  Knows it is wrong, and in turn he is wrong, but why bother re-doing it.  Just take the asshole media approach of the last 20 years, print fiction as fact, and if you get called out on your shit, put a correction or retraction somewhere near the bag page of the print media or the last closing moments of a show when people have already checked out and hope no one notices.

[Kirk_Johnston]

Ignore, until I update the video I had posted.

Edited August 24, 2023 by Kirk_Johnston

[Kirk_Johnston]

I'll just add the unconverted version of the background alongside the converted SNES 8bpp 256-colour version here to use this comment I messed up [in addition to the one above], so at least you can do a wee direct comparison for fun:

 

Now that I see them side by side (well, one above the other, or flicking between tabs, or however you're viewing them), the sheer difference is almost unbearable. But don't worry, I've decided I'm gonna update that video with the correct one. I almost wanna hit myself for making such a stupid mistake initially when I really should have noticed it the instant I posted the original footage and watched it back on YouTube. It was a ridiculous mistake to make in the first place. I mean, I know GameMaker doesn't flag up if you accidently inserted a version of your image that isn't converted and formatted perfectly for SNES, but that really is no excuse. Sloppy work--bordering on sheer deceit and lies. The trust may be forever destroyed, but I will work to put it right. We all deserve that at least.

 

Note: I know it's patently obvious to anyone with eyes, but just in case anyone at all can't tell much of a difference at a glance, the top one is the original with bazillions of colours [I think] and the bottom one is the properly converted 8bpp 256-colour SNES version [I think].

 

God help me if I've accidentally not posted the correct ones again. Trust me, I'll be just as upset as anyone else.

Edited August 24, 2023 by Kirk_Johnston

[Kirk_Johnston]

I decided to do a slightly updated version of the 8bpp 256-colour background platformer mockup, specifically adding in enough coins [which use the foreground tiles] and sprites in a row that what you see at the start of the clip simply would not be possible on PC Engine due to the fact it only has a single background layer and would therefore have to use sprites for the entirety of the foreground layer plus the player and enemies, along with the fact the Genesis [even though it wouldn't have an issue with the coins and sprites] just can't get anywhere near as nice an image quality on that main background due to being stuck with 4bpp tiles, a 9-bit master palette, and only 64 colours to share across absolutely everything on-screen here (as is very clear from the comparison of the three converted versions above imo), which is really the main selling point of this example in how good that background looks on SNES and what it specifically could do with a game built around taking advantage of this general idea.

 

Anyway, here is the updated video:

 

Point being, SNES has some nice little features unique to it for a 16-bit console, that when used properly can allow it to do stuff that really only the SNES could do in that particular area to that level of quality out of the main "16-bit" consoles from that generation, and that's the kind of thing I'd love to see more of on SNES in modern times, hence me making a mockup demonstrating what it would look like in practice.

 

Note: And this version has the correct 8bpp 256-colour background. I'm sorry the other versions' incorrect background was so different that it was basically a total lie about how it would look on SNES. God save me if I've made some other silly mistake.

 

PS. No, this would not be pushing the SNES to its limits here, just in case anyone takes that away from the footage for some reason. The demo is not to demonstrate the SNES at its absolute limit in every area; it's just to show, again, how good a high-colour standard background during full gameplay could look on SNES particularly. So, just keep in mind that even more could be done with a game based around this high-colour background idea.

Edited August 24, 2023 by Kirk_Johnston

[Kirk_Johnston]

Yeah, a delete button reeeally would be useful for those times when you say accidently quote yourself rather than editing your comment [as I just did once again!]. But, hey, I'm human and sometimes post the wrong thing by accident. Don't worry though, because even if I don't notice I've posted the wrong thing by accident, we can all rest assured someone else will be right on the case.

Edited August 24, 2023 by Kirk_Johnston

[WavyGravy]

Ooh, @TrekkiesUnite118, you got a direct link in your Ignore message! How do the rest of us get those? Does this make you The Authority on getting ignored by Kirk?

[TrekkiesUnite118]

2 minutes ago, WavyGravy said:

Ooh, @TrekkiesUnite118, you got a direct link in your Ignore message! How do the rest of us get those? Does this make you The Authority on getting ignored by Kirk?

Just keep telling him that coding isn't hard and he can do it if he applies himself. You can also try constantly reminding him he's not really an SNES dev because he's never made something that actually runs on an SNES. Eventually he'll have a meltdown that results in a permanent ban and he'll blame it all on you.

[Wayler]

4 hours ago, Kirk_Johnston said:

Sloppy work--bordering on sheer deceit and lies. The trust may be forever destroyed, but I will work to put it right.

I don't think he understand the concept of "forever destroyed"... 

 

Also, to whom is he rambling to? 

[The Mr. Video]

23 minutes ago, Wayler said:

Also, to whom is he rambling to? 

Probably to people like me who keep looking at these threads out of morbid curiosity.

[newtmonkey]

Kirk SNES is continuing the fight against the deceptive propaganda of FEKA INCORPORATED's master plan!!

 

The SNES has got the arcade feel.  And its games are much more intense than FEKA's.  I mean, FEKA has got every poster in this forum convinced that the FEKA game system is the only one in town.  Kirk SNES has got to do something to loosen their grip on the minds of the public.  Why, Nintendo released Street Fighter II on cartridge almost one year before FEKA!  Guys, check this out!  While the SNES gives you Super Mario World for free, FEKA's system comes with a side scroller that doesn't even compare!!

 

If Kirk SNES has anything to do with it, this forum will never again see the glowing red eyes of FEKA INCORPORATED!!

Edited August 24, 2023 by newtmonkey

[Lost Monkey]

Every system needs a Johnny Turbo.

[Kirk_Johnston]

A whole lot of chatter. Some clearly daft. Much I don't even know what it's about since most of the people doing it are in a little clique mob I don't have to hear anymore now I finally just set them to Ignore (can't believe I didn't use this feature sooner)--but I can guess it's absolutely about their love of SNES--and in the grand scheme of the Universe it all goes somewhere: 

 

And I'll continue to post predominantly about interesting [at least to me] SNES stuff, my own game ideas and proof of concepts, new indie and homebrew games that excite me, cool SNES tech demos, etc.

 

Here's one for example:

Now, I think that's pretty cool. Would I buy it--not in a bazillion years. Lol

Edited August 24, 2023 by Kirk_Johnston