Who was the worst CEO in Atari's history?

[+bent_pin]

16 minutes ago, Crazy Climber said:

Ummmm

Ahh...

Hmmmm....

Uhhhh

No, you're not picking fights, not at all 😆 

 

I think its the taking my ball and going home thing...

I love how your comment reads without any other context.

[+splendidnut]

I agree quite a bit with what @zzip brought up.  CEO's typically focus most on the financial side of things.  This is usually motivated by a board of directors who are more concerned about their investment than anything else.  They like to talk about values other than money but don't necessarily give them the attention they deserve.  With Atari, Nolan Bushnell founded the company and was the person who cared most the value he was providing.  He understood the importance of good engineering and let the engineers do their jobs.  And he let them doing crazy things for the sake of finding new innovative products.  I would say that he was the Best CEO.

[+splendidnut]

Just now, splendidnut said:

I would say that he was the Best CEO.

Oh crap, we're looking for the worst CEO... Sorry, my bad.

[+bent_pin]

We should all know how opinions work. We should also know that taking internet user's opinions to heart can dramatically shorten one's lifespan. So what if you were disagreed with, is your life any the worse for wear?

 

Kindly disregard opinions that would otherwise bother you, and join in the fun of this forum.

 

I genuinely hope everyone here has an awesome day, regardless of their opinions on the matter.

[zzip]

18 minutes ago, splendidnut said:

With Atari, Nolan Bushnell founded the company and was the person who cared most the value he was providing.  He understood the importance of good engineering and let the engineers do their jobs.  And he let them doing crazy things for the sake of finding new innovative products.  I would say that he was the Best CEO.

Yeah Nolan is typical entrepreneur.    Start a company then leave and do something else.   Then the business is taken over by bottom-line focused "suits" and culture clash ensues.

 

I wonder if Nolan was the prototype for the laid-back Silicon Valley tech entrepreneur that later became so common, or if there is an earlier example?

[Crazy Climber]

50 minutes ago, splendidnut said:

To be fair, people pushed him into that position.  You only quoted one side of the conversation, but both sides are at fault.

 

I do agree with you though.

I don't know man...

13 hours ago, Flojomojo said:

This is a very negative topic. Each of these men faced different challenges at different points in the history of the old company. 
 

Ray Kassar probably lost the most money for the company, so wouldn’t he be objectively, quantitatively worst?

 

Fred Chesnais brought the bones of Infogrames Atari back into profitability, but he was prone to desperate, stupid gimmicks while the company failed to do anything interesting with games or the legacy. 
 

But I think the premise of this topic is shortsighted, mean, and stupid. 

Okay, This above one was maybe a little harsh 

13 hours ago, x=usr(1536) said:

Kermit.  After he took his fall down he stairs, things changed.  Some say that was the beginning of the end for the company.

Agreed.  Criticism is one thing, but this thread comes across as an invitation to shit on someone just because it can be done.

But this

12 hours ago, Jess Ragan said:

Wade Rosen!

(looks behind him, notices Wade Rosen tapping a baseball bat in his palm)

Uh oh.

Or this

10 hours ago, jeremiahjt said:

I will go with Wade Rosen. I mean how are you going to buy a forum and not even come by and say hello. Wait a minute... Atari just bought AtariAge and @JPF997 is a brand new member... JPF997 is Wade Rosen!

Or this

10 hours ago, x=usr(1536) said:

He's also Soylent Green!

And even this all seem pretty tame, especially for a younger guy that grew up with the internet....

[+splendidnut]

@Crazy Climber Okay, uh, you win?  People could have done a better job to steer the conversation in a direction towards discussion.

[Flojomojo]

32 minutes ago, zzip said:

Yeah Nolan is typical entrepreneur.    Start a company then leave and do something else.   Then the business is taken over by bottom-line focused "suits" and culture clash ensues.

 

I wonder if Nolan was the prototype for the laid-back Silicon Valley tech entrepreneur that later became so common, or if there is an earlier example?

I remember some news stories about “Atari Democrats” as a model for modern, technocratic solutions to problems, so maybe? The fact that Steve Jobs worked for Nolan might suggest so. 
 

Ray Kassar was supposed to bring the business acumen and discipline to the company and make it profitable, but the rest of the market had other plans. Maybe he would have been more effective had the games market been in a more mature phase where he could run it like a towel business. 

 

It wasn’t my intention to run anyone off or make them feel bad, but I still feel it was a lazy question. What’s next? “Is E.T. really the worst game?” There’s something to be said for doing a LITTLE homework before posting ten times a day. 

[digdugnate]

So Ray Kassar was CEO when ET released.  Bingo!  Worst CEO 🤡

[+bent_pin]

6 minutes ago, digdugnate said:

So Ray Kassar was CEO when ET released.  Bingo!  Worst CEO 🤡

Counterpoint, Dig Dug 2600 was distributed by Atari while he was at the helm.

[digdugnate]

4 minutes ago, bent_pin said:

Counterpoint, Dig Dug 2600 was distributed by Atari while he was at the helm.

 

well, ah, erm, hmm.  😅

[zzip]

13 minutes ago, digdugnate said:

So Ray Kassar was CEO when ET released.  Bingo!  Worst CEO 🤡

The main problem with ET was they made more cartridges than they had 2600s, they way way overestimated demand.  If wasn't for that, they wouldn't have had to bury carts in a landfill, and ET would be considered one of the 2600's biggest hits.

[digdugnate]

16 minutes ago, zzip said:

The main problem with ET was they made more cartridges than they had 2600s, they way way overestimated demand.  If wasn't for that, they wouldn't have had to bury carts in a landfill, and ET would be considered one of the 2600's biggest hits.

 

yeah, but that answer is all factual and stuff.    (i get what you mean)

[stirrell]

5 hours ago, zzip said:

Likewise, Jack seemed to have only one play in his playbook:  "undercut the competition on price!".    It worked for the C64, but didn't work quite as well other times he used it.

They did well with the PET and the VIC-20 as well. The C64 was a continuation of a string of hits based on this strategy, IMO. When I look at the ST it seems like a machine that should have been poised to mimic the success of the Commodore 64. Nothing even came close for the computer you got for the price, in my opinion. Not until the Amiga 500 came out.

Of course the market had changed quite a bit and there were at least a few things that I think really were against Atari:

• The Commodore 64 was sold in major department stores like K-Mart and Sears. The Atari ST never got that kind of distribution (at least to my knowledge) and in a lot of areas in the States was near impossible to find.
• Atari Corp was very strapped for cash when they took over.
• Commodore was vertically integrated. I would think having MOS was a huge advantage over being dependant on other company's chips like Motorola.

And obviously my observations are just very small pieces as to why Atari failed. I do give them credit for trying some innovative things like the Portfolio, Lynx and Hotz Box. But the ST really seemed to stagnate after the original lineup. I'm always surprised that Atari didn't try to compete more aggressively in the PC market where the focus was pretty squarely on price.

[Bakasama]

7 hours ago, x=usr(1536) said:

Needs background music.

 

 

Think this might work better:

 

[DavidD]

Suggestion:

 

• Make a list of all "Atari" CEOs.
• For each, list the BEST and WORST decision made.
• Something-something-something-comparison

[Matt_B]

I'll go with James Morgan.

 

He was the guy brought in to be the hatchet man after Kassar's failure. While some dead wood probably needed cutting away, it would have been a lot better to have had someone who knew a thing or two about technology rather than a marketing executive straight out of the tobacco industry whose reaction to everything he didn't get was to freeze development and fire everyone involved. The Tramiels are somewhat infamous for doing that, but he was far worse than they were in his short tenure.

Also, the guy was later CEO of Philip Morris for three years, which I'd reckon gives him an actual body count. At least, if you know anyone who died of lung cancer, you've partially got him to thank for it.

 

 

[BIGHMW]

Ray Kassar.

 

He put out the 5200, the system that brought me to the Atari fold after the butchery that was the original 1981 2600 Pac-Man.

 

The 5200 SuperSystem was everything you wanted in an Atari gaming system. Yes, while most of her titles were mainly improved versions of the A8 titles there were some simply outstanding entries that were superior to the A8 versions (Centipede, Dig Dug, and Qix most notably) and also exclusive titles (Countermeasure, Space Dungeon, Robotron: 2084 and the RealSports series of titles), plus, the now-legendary CX53 Trak-Ball, a dual controller holder, and, later on, the CX55 VCS cartridge adapter that allowed 5200 owners to play 2600 titles. And a growing third-party lineup of titles too from Activision, CBS, Parker Brothers, and Sega, to name just a few companies who also put out games for her.

 

But Ray Kassar, just 18 months later after launching the 5200 during the 1982 World Series at that when the first commercials aired in between innings, decided to pull the plug on Big Sexy..... BAD MOVE!!! I don't know if it was Warner's move or if he did it on his own accord but we 5200 owners were pissed that he decided to not only do that but also to give the green light to (and too early at that!!!) launching the 7800, in which itself was delayed by another 2 years after its initial summer 1984 launch!!!

 

Talk about backstabbing and incompetence, that, was Ray Kassar.

 

Had the 5200 been given a fair chance I'll bet she would've sold as many if not more units then ColecoVision, both units had controller issues but those would be remedied by third party controllers from the likes of Wico and Coin Controls so let's not get into that, as 40 years later more companies have stepped it up to offer solutions for the 5200's controller woes.

[Matt_B]

I think you'll find that it was Morgan who canceled the 5200 in May 1984. Kassar was sacked for insider trading in July 1983, so was not around when that decision was made.

 

He made a lot of mistakes towards the end of his run as CEO that were ultimately catastrophic for the company, but that certainly wasn't one of them.

[BIGHMW]

13 minutes ago, Matt_B said:

I think you'll find that it was Morgan who canceled the 5200 in May 1984. Kassar was sacked for insider trading in July 1983, so was not around when that decision was made.

 

He made a lot of mistakes towards the end of his run as CEO that were ultimately catastrophic for the company, but that certainly wasn't one of them.

Yeah considering my sources were limited mainly to Electronic Games Magazine and their editorial staff, Bill Kunkel, Arnie Katz (a.k.a. "The Game Doctor"), and Joyce Worley (RIP to all three of them), I had no idea of any of the business going-ons inside Warner or Atari, all I cared about was the damn games themselves. So thanks for the clarification on that.

Edited September 22, 2023 by BIGHMW

[Matt_B]

So, you'd agree that Morgan was the worst then? 🙂

 

I'd recommend having a read of Marty Goldberg and Curt Vendel's Book sometime if you want the full story on the early history of Atari. Howard Warshaw's is also very good if you're interested in the Kassar era.

[jerseystyle]

2 hours ago, BIGHMW said:

Ray Kassar.

 

He put out the 5200, the system that brought me to the Atari fold after the butchery that was the original 1981 2600 Pac-Man.

 

The 5200 SuperSystem was everything you wanted in an Atari gaming system. Yes, while most of her titles were mainly improved versions of the A8 titles there were some simply outstanding entries that were superior to the A8 versions (Centipede, Dig Dug, and Qix most notably) and also exclusive titles (Countermeasure, Space Dungeon, Robotron: 2084 and the RealSports series of titles), plus, the now-legendary CX53 Trak-Ball, a dual controller holder, and, later on, the CX55 VCS cartridge adapter that allowed 5200 owners to play 2600 titles. And a growing third-party lineup of titles too from Activision, CBS, Parker Brothers, and Sega, to name just a few companies who also put out games for her.

 

But Ray Kassar, just 18 months later after launching the 5200 during the 1982 World Series at that when the first commercials aired in between innings, decided to pull the plug on Big Sexy..... BAD MOVE!!! I don't know if it was Warner's move or if he did it on his own accord but we 5200 owners were pissed that he decided to not only do that but also to give the green light to (and too early at that!!!) launching the 7800, in which itself was delayed by another 2 years after its initial summer 1984 launch!!!

 

Talk about backstabbing and incompetence, that, was Ray Kassar.

 

Had the 5200 been given a fair chance I'll bet she would've sold as many if not more units then ColecoVision, both units had controller issues but those would be remedied by third party controllers from the likes of Wico and Coin Controls so let's not get into that, as 40 years later more companies have stepped it up to offer solutions for the 5200's controller woes.

You’d probably have Cindy Margolis over right now playing Star Raiders  in your mansion if that damn Kassar hadn’t been so fucky. He was the George Green of Atari CEOs.

[Zonie]

On 9/14/2023 at 7:23 AM, zzip said:

I think too often a CEO is judged by the bottom line.   By that measure Ray Kassar would be the best ever (Atari became the fastest growing company in US history under his tenure)  and worst ever  (losses of $1 million per day before his ouster).    But I don't think there was a vision for that era, the company was in the right place at the right time to ride the early 80s videogame wave.   But they couldn't have planned for the boom, they didn't know it would be so short-lived there's lots of signs of them flailing around trying to figure out what worked and doing things seem dumb in retrospect.   Still someone at the company had the foresight to license Space Invaders and Pac-man, which put them above their competition.

Well said.

On 9/14/2023 at 8:22 AM, Crazy Climber said:

Ummmm

Ahh...

Hmmmm....

Uhhhh

No, you're not picking fights, not at all 😆 

 

I think its the taking my ball and going home thing...

Yep, and it appears he has. No new posts here in a while...

On 9/21/2023 at 8:32 PM, BIGHMW said:

SNIP

 

The 5200 SuperSystem was everything you wanted in an Atari gaming system. Yes, while most of her titles were mainly improved versions of the A8 titles there were some simply outstanding entries that were superior to the A8 versions (Centipede, Dig Dug, and Qix most notably) and also exclusive titles (Countermeasure, Space Dungeon, Robotron: 2084 and the RealSports series of titles), plus, the now-legendary CX53 Trak-Ball, a dual controller holder, and, later on, the CX55 VCS cartridge adapter that allowed 5200 owners to play 2600 titles. And a growing third-party lineup of titles too from Activision, CBS, Parker Brothers, and Sega, to name just a few companies who also put out games for her.

 

 

You really love that big hunk of plastic, don't you!

 

Tramel's issue was he hated Commodore and everything he did was driven by that. Good or bad.

[BassGuitari]

On 9/21/2023 at 10:32 PM, BIGHMW said:

He put out the 5200, the system that brought me to the Atari fold after the butchery that was the original 1981 1982 2600 Pac-Man.

[/pedantic] 😜

[BIGHMW]

On 9/23/2023 at 10:17 AM, Zonie said:

Well said.

Yep, and it appears he has. No new posts here in a while...

You really love that big hunk of plastic, don't you!

Well I (sometime in the short future) WOULD love to see a smaller rendition of her such as the 5100 prototype was supposed to have been basically a "5200 Jr." unit without the annoying (to some as that feature alone adds 33% to her size) rear controller storage compartment, but still with a 4-port BIOS despite her having 2 controller ports, much like my current 5200.