Do you prefer the recharged games or the original version's ?

[jerseystyle]

13 hours ago, JPF997 said:

 the way I would describe it is that the old version's are the equivalent of an 80s classic song while the recharged version's are the synthwave remix, the perfect evolution . 

[roots.genoa]

9 hours ago, ledzep said:

Fuck synthwave, that's elevator music.  I want people to actually play instruments in my music.  And yes, many of them still do, even many current bands!

Yeah, sure, because synthwave is made by machines, not human beings, exactly like video games are created by computers! 🙄

[ledzep]

11 hours ago, roots.genoa said:

Yeah, sure, because synthwave is made by machines, not human beings, exactly like video games are created by computers! 🙄

 

One's got nothing to do with the other so I'm not sure where you're going with that.  My only comment about that was that in no universe is synthwave the perfect evolution of classic '80s songs, even '80s songs I don't like sound worse as synthwave.

[zzip]

On 9/16/2023 at 5:39 AM, leech said:

What I'm waiting for is a legit full on SwordQuest RPG... Come on Atari, give that series more love!  I'm not talking about a recharged version either.  Just give us a new RPG with crazy hard puzzles spread out over comics / internet hints or something.  That'd be amazing!  Granted, I don't expect them to have crazy contests... Though would be funny to host some game in their hotel...

Yeah, I'd love a Swordquest game with art style based on the comic books (and graphics level similar to the upcoming Haunted House).   But I'd prefer a game with accessible puzzles with clues somewhere in-game and not have to refer to external media.    The old 2600 Adventures forced you to read manuals or comics simply because they lacked the rom space to put everything in-game code.

 

 

 

 

[zzip]

20 minutes ago, ledzep said:

My only comment about that was that in no universe is synthwave the perfect evolution of classic '80s songs, even '80s songs I don't like sound worse as synthwave.

I find the modern synthwave "80s" music is missing one key thing.   80s music was bombastic with the singer front and center.   The modern synthwave music is usually much more chill with a generic singer more in the background.    Also 80s music was not that synth-oriented!   Even most of the "Synth-pop" 80s bands were also using guitars, bass, exotic percussion, saxophone and so on.

[leech]

2 hours ago, ledzep said:

 

One's got nothing to do with the other so I'm not sure where you're going with that.  My only comment about that was that in no universe is synthwave the perfect evolution of classic '80s songs, even '80s songs I don't like sound worse as synthwave.

Ha, says a dude named Ledzep.    I always thought a lot of the synthwave stuff sucked, as I loved the screaming guitars of Jimmy Page, etc.  Granted computer / console music I absolutely love, bands that depended too much on keyboards I felt didn't have as much talent.  With only a few exceptions here and there.

[ledzep]

11 hours ago, zzip said:

I find the modern synthwave "80s" music is missing one key thing.   80s music was bombastic with the singer front and center.   The modern synthwave music is usually much more chill with a generic singer more in the background.    Also 80s music was not that synth-oriented!   Even most of the "Synth-pop" 80s bands were also using guitars, bass, exotic percussion, saxophone and so on.

 

I'll be brief (if I can) since this isn't a discussion about music.  I can't stand New Wave, which is what that first type of overly synth-heavy crap was in the '80s and beyond.  With the exception of Missing Persons (though only their first album, really) and The Cars (though they're not New Wave but are the closest thing a legitimate Rock band could get to it).  Having said that, those were real bands with real musicians and singers.  So there was (sometimes) legitimate talent in there, they were just making songs I hated.  But talent is talent, I can respect that.  I cannot respect synthwave and similar types of "music" that is more or less computer-generated (whether in actuality or merely in perception) tones and melodies with nobody playing anything or being able to create the sounds without computer assistance.  It ends up being the opposite of what I want music to be, which is music (obviously) but also I can concentrate on what individual musicians are playing.  Sometimes I want to get into what the guitarist is playing, sometimes the drummer, the keyboard player (if there is one), etc.  Wow, a particular person with real skill playing something.  That's impossible with synthwave and its ilk.  If you've ever jammed with friends playing music (even if you guys aren't that good) you will understand why this "music" is an abomination.

 

So (and this also applies to much of hip-hop and techno), do you need to be a musician (able to play musical instruments) to be able to create a synthwave track?  Fuck no.  It might help, I guess, but I'm sure there are many people at their homes in front of computers assembling tracks and setting notes and beats and choosing synth sounds who can generate those tracks by themselves and they don't have the ability to play a guitar or piano or anything else, really.  And AutoTuning any vocals they might breathe into the mike.  If that works for you, great.  It definitely does not work for me.  It's robotic, bland, monotonous, slightly more musical than listening to an air conditioner.  It's sort of like how you will see a new "retro" version of a car and it sort of looks like the original but everything has been smoothed over, all the detail, the corners, it's all gradual.  Compare the first generation ('55-'57) Ford Thunderbird to the most recent retro remake eleventh generation ('02-'05).  You look at the new one and, yes, you know what they were going for.  But everything is rounded off and bland, no detail, no character.  Same goes for synthwave.

 

 

Bringing it back to this "recharged" games question, I have a bias towards 8-bit video games (late '70s/early '80s, pre-Nintendo), that's my "hard rock music" (as opposed to jazz or country or something else) of video games, if that makes sense.  While I agree that some of those games sucked, in general they were/are, to me, the best types of video games to play.  They are great specifically because of their strengths (gameplay, design) and their limitations (basic graphics, non-complex levels and goals).  So to my mind I see nothing lacking or necessary to improve them or make them "better".  They ain't broke, don't fix them.  I don't need a "story".

 

What I see in these recharged versions are much smoother graphics, typically kind of cartoonish-looking (the way they bounce and react) and too detailed (high resolution) compared to the originals.  With the shading they actually end up looking sort of like the artwork that accompanies synthwave YouTube videos, I suppose that's on purpose, that look?  There seems to be the need to spray the screen with moving shit everywhere, whatever was there in the original, there is a bigger/brighter/more animated version in the recharged version.  And then, of course, the goddamn power-ups and the stupid music.

 

So, comparing the Missile Commands -

 

 

 

If I remember correctly (I bought the damn book after all) the original idea for Missile Command was from the point of view of a radar screen.  Ok, that didn't work, the game got changed around to what was eventually very "combat display"-ish, which I love (even though I suck at the game).  You can imagine that you're at a console in an Air Force base defending some cities with your remote ABM launchers.  Very serious feel, nothing cute or "fun", save the cities!  But the recharged version?  Oh, now we must have some cartoon background of cliffs and buildings yet we're defending some goofy closer buildings that look different, the missile launchers look like turrets with smooth animation (not missiles anymore?), I cannot stand the unnecessary Doctor Strange spinning black detonations, it looks like a kid's comic book in there.  The incoming missiles try to look detailed but end up looking fat, out of proportion.  The original was much better, just tiny "radar" dots, missile tracks, the new recharged game adds absolutely nothing to the gameplay, just a bunch of blinking/glowing notices and updates.  And shitty music.  It feels like the whole game is under water, and why have the slightly shifting point of view as you move the targeting cursor?  The whole look feels like Atari plans to sell plushies of every object in the game.  Why would shooting down an enemy missile grant you a power-up, a shield?  Thanks, commies!  BOMB!

 

I will assume that most players don't actually use a trak-ball controller, either, which is heresy.

 

Centipede, similar issues -

 

 

 

The original is concise and frantic once you get past the first level or two.  The sound effects are great, the animation of the centipedes really emphasizes the individual insect sections.  That spider is a bitch, changing speeds and directions, sometimes it just Lawrence Taylors right at you and wipes you out.  There's a real piling up of the "oh shit" anxiety trying to hold back the waves of insects.  The recharged version?  It's soft.  The centipedes look more like slugs wiggling slowly as they move, why do I need to see a glowing trail of my movements?  The music sucks.  I cannot stand the giant, glowing explosions that obscure what just happened.  Where's the psycho spider?  Oooooh, power-ups with "cool" fireworks explosions everywhere, it's a mess.  Just a bunch of shiny objects, like chroming every bolt-on in an engine compartment.

 

To put it another way, imagine watching the "Top Gun: Maverick" movie and every time they showed the instrument displays in the F-18s or in the carrier CIC they looked like this happy recharged Missile Command horseshit.  That would be so much better, right?  Right?

[roots.genoa]

2 hours ago, ledzep said:

I can't stand New Wave, which is what that first type of overly synth-heavy crap was in the '80s and beyond.  With the exception of Missing Persons (though only their first album, really) and The Cars (though they're not New Wave but are the closest thing a legitimate Rock band could get to it).

First of all I think you're mistaken about what New Wave is. It's a post punk movement born in the mid-70s that doesn't necessarily feature any keyboard, but there's a common confusion with Synth Pop that "replaced" it (in the popular culture that is) around 1982. Synthwave is inspired by Synth Pop (Gary Numan, Depeche Mode, etc.), not New Wave (Buzzcocks, Blondie, Wire, Joy Division, etc.).
 

But once again, that's a very common mistake, and it's all the more complicated since American's New Wave is slightly different from British New Wave.

Edited September 19, 2023 by roots.genoa

[KainXavier]

@ledzep

I'm not trying to sway your mind of course, but it's weird to me that you take umbrage with the vortex-style explosions present in Missile Command: Recharged but not the technicolor explosions of the original game.  In my mind, they're equally flashy, and they're both being used to show off what the hardware is capable of.

Also, while I do miss the radar-esque missiles, I feel Recharged's aesthetics are better overall.  The artillery fire actually sounds like artillery fire, and all of the particle effects and screen shaking convey the weight of those impacts.  The gameplay is also faster-paced and more streamlined, leading to a more arcade-like experience than the original game.  This is understandable though as the original game was meant to be a commentary on the Cold War and the horrors of nuclear warfare.  And honestly, it succeeds at that far better than any sequel or re-imagining that's been released since.  So if that's the real source of your anger, I totally get that.

Lastly, I like the music.  I feel like it captures the era in which Missile Command was released.  Also, composing music requires just as much skill as playing an instrument does so I don't really understand that argument.  And if you're still hung up on the instrumentation, many bands have a keyboardist or DJ that handles all of the synth / computer-aided stuff.  You'd be hard-pressed to argue that Richard Wright of Pink Floyd is not a musician.

[GraffitiTavern]

I am a bit of a sucker for these sort of 'Neo-Arcade' titles like the Recharged Series, Pac-Man Championship Edition, and just this week I got Space Invaders Extreme and Geometry Wars 3. Interesting what different directions they went in. Recharged series all tended to go for a vector-neon thing and synthwave, and a somewhat more minimalist attitude compared to the Japanese games. Pac-Man Championship Edition retains a lot of classic gameplay, but with club music and those intense colorful 'echo' visuals. Space Invaders Extreme is a weird kind of score attack game, with the most over-the-top visuals and a feel like a rhythm game. The two Reimagined titles I really enjoyed, Neo Breakout and VCTR-SCTR, were more experimental and kind of stacked the gameplay of the different games on top of one another sequentially. Still deciding which style I prefer.

 

As for synthwave, I'm not a big fan of 'wave' music, but I don't think it was/is supposed to be a faithful recreation of 80s music or aesthetics, more a specific interpretation of them. Megan McDuffee does vocals in her other tracks, so I do hope Atari commissions a vocal song from her.

[ledzep]

8 hours ago, roots.genoa said:

First of all I think you're mistaken about what New Wave is. It's a post punk movement born in the mid-70s that doesn't necessarily feature any keyboard, but there's a common confusion with Synth Pop that "replaced" it (in the popular culture that is) around 1982. Synthwave is inspired by Synth Pop (Gary Numan, Depeche Mode, etc.), not New Wave (Buzzcocks, Blondie, Wire, Joy Division, etc.).
 

But once again, that's a very common mistake, and it's all the more complicated since American's New Wave is slightly different from British New Wave.

 

You may be right in terms of the definitions.  For one I don't/didn't like either type of music you mention so as soon as it was on the radio or MTV, switch it to something else!  Which means I didn't get good looks at them most of the time.  Also, I'm only going off what I kept hearing on MTV back then, this or that band is New Wave, let's watch their new video!  And also high school classmates raving about their favorite New Wave bands.  If they were mistaken or loose with the definitions then so be it.  I do remember all of those main/big deal MTV New Wave bands having keyboard players, with very synthy sounding tracks, no Deep Purple style Hammond organs here, hahaaha.  Certainly no guitar solos, or shitty ones, barring the occasional Duran Duran type band.  New Wave, as far as it was represented to me, was typically a group of 4 or 5 young skinny guys (with the occasional girl) wearing suits or at least blazers, or loud colored clothes, with idiotic hairstyles, not moving around much as they played, more serious or dour.  That's the best that leaning back into the cobwebs of my '80s memories can get.

[roots.genoa]

15 minutes ago, ledzep said:

Certainly no guitar solos

I guarantee you there are guitar solos in New Wave, and renowned guitar players as well (Johnny Marr for instance). But music is the most subjective thing ever anyway. You won't like it, but here is an example of modern New Wave; there's some keyboard but you can't deny it's mostly guitar based: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c6njrhBAxzY

[zzip]

2 minutes ago, ledzep said:

You may be right in terms of the definitions.  For one I don't/didn't like either type of music you mention so as soon as it was on the radio or MTV, switch it to something else!  Which means I didn't get good looks at them most of the time.  Also, I'm only going off what I kept hearing on MTV back then, this or that band is New Wave, let's watch their new video!  And also high school classmates raving about their favorite New Wave bands.  If they were mistaken or loose with the definitions then so be it.  I do remember all of those main/big deal MTV New Wave bands having keyboard players, with very synthy sounding tracks, no Deep Purple style Hammond organs here, hahaaha.  Certainly no guitar solos, or shitty ones, barring the occasional Duran Duran type band.  New Wave, as far as it was represented to me, was typically a group of 4 or 5 young skinny guys (with the occasional girl) wearing suits or at least blazers, or loud colored clothes, with idiotic hairstyles, not moving around much as they played, more serious or dour.  That's the best that leaning back into the cobwebs of my '80s memories can get.

technically New Wave is the music that came out of 'post-punk',  but everyone in the US associates it with the "MTV Sound".   But before MTV, came along, you did have Blondie on the charts, and Devo, Gary Numan, The Cars, and a handful of other New Wave acts.   But then MTV came along and created the 'second British Invasion' because British bands tended to make more music videos than US bands at the time and MTV was desperate for whatever music videos they could get!

 

Bands like Duran Duran are actually considered "New Romantic" rather than New Wave.   

 

And yeah I remember a lot of those bands had the big Roland synthesizer front and center, but a lot of the music was more guitar-driven and less synthy than we remember.   

[ledzep]

17 minutes ago, roots.genoa said:

I guarantee you there are guitar solos in New Wave, and renowned guitar players as well (Johnny Marr for instance). But music is the most subjective thing ever anyway. You won't like it, but here is an example of modern New Wave; there's some keyboard but you can't deny it's mostly guitar based: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c6njrhBAxzY

 

I was mocking, when I saw no guitar solos, I mean none worth remembering or being impressed with.  Outside of Andy Taylor from Duran Duran there wasn't anybody in any of those bands that my guitar-playing friends (or I, for that matter) cared about.  I've never heard of Johnny Marr (even back when The Smiths were big, thanks Google!) but based on this -

 

 

"renowned" must be more subjective than I'm used to.  Maybe it's the sunglasses.  This embodies everything I hate about that kind of music.  Bored/depressed singing going flat in every verse (suicidal crooner), twangy/jangly guitars, metronome-y drums, complainy lyrics (rich people blues, hahaaha), they sound like making music is a chore and they'd rather be doing anything else.  Ugh, that shitty falsetto, I'd forgotten about that go-to.  Great theme music for the current younger generations, though, those fuckers aren't satisfied with anything.

 

On the plus side, that Aline (they're French I assume?) band has mostly captured the '80s New Wave vibe, good for them.  Don't tell me a human played drums on that, though.  So, taking a very minimal style of music and minimizing it even more.  I'd still listen to that over synthwave, hahaaha.

 

What is it with these bands approaching guitar playing like it's a one-handed run on a piano?  Ding dingdingding dingdingdingdingding dingding ding dingdingding dingdingdingdingding dingding.

 

This is the right way to do that kind of music -

 

 

Keyboards?  Of course.  Much better drums, the guitarist sounds like he likes playing guitar regardless of how good he might be, quirky singing and goofy clothes, this is what I remember hearing in '80s arcades, along with Van Halen and The Police other rock bands of course.  I think younger people have been told what the '80s was like (particularly in arcades) by people who don't know or from movies or something, but they're way off.

[Bakasama]

1 hour ago, zzip said:

Bands like Duran Duran are actually considered "New Romantic" rather than New Wave.   

It funny that MTV is irrelevant nowadays and Duran Duran is still around touring with new music.

[ledzep]

11 hours ago, KainXavier said:

@ledzep

I'm not trying to sway your mind of course, but it's weird to me that you take umbrage with the vortex-style explosions present in Missile Command: Recharged but not the technicolor explosions of the original game.  In my mind, they're equally flashy, and they're both being used to show off what the hardware is capable of.

 

I'm sorry, what technicolor explosions in the original Missile Command?  They were meant to be (if I'm looking at it right) "realistic" representations of what a missile explosion in the air would look like.  I think one of the crewmen on one of the WWII B-29s that dropped a nuke mentioned that the explosion had colors of the rainbow in it.  So that cycling through some bright colors works for me in terms of trying to replicate that bright burst idea (and the fireball being big/hot enough to take out a nearby warhead), and the burst doesn't last long, either, just small to large to small, done.  It's trying to look like an actual explosion (we can debate how good of a job it is), not some cartoony effect, a hot smoky spheroid.  As a player I don't care about flashy trying to show off what the hardware is capable of, I want graphics that convince me that what I'm told is happening is happening.  Even if they're basic.  The original Missile Command looks like manning remote launchers, firing ABMs up at incoming ICBM warheads and blowing those warheads up in the sky (or they hit a city).  The recharged one looks like Spinning Things appearing where I shoot my water cannon or whatever that is and the screen shakes for no reason when the Super Spinning Things appear and cover half the screen.

 

It would be fine (I guess) if the original Missile Command had never been made to compare to.  But once you say this thing is Missile Command "recharged", it has to be mostly Missile Command, meaning (in the case of this game) firing missiles up at incoming missiles, a military-ish looking game.  It's like when the 2600 Pac-Man came out, people saw the box art, they already knew what Pac-Man is supposed to look like/play like, they get the cart home and start playing, what the fuck is this?!  If it had been called something else, nobody really cares, they probably accuse Atari of ripping off Pac-Man, but they can't be mad that it doesn't look right or play exactly the same because it's Wafer-Whore, not Pac-Man.

 

11 hours ago, KainXavier said:

Also, while I do miss the radar-esque missiles, I feel Recharged's aesthetics are better overall.  The artillery fire actually sounds like artillery fire, and all of the particle effects and screen shaking convey the weight of those impacts.  The gameplay is also faster-paced and more streamlined, leading to a more arcade-like experience than the original game.  This is understandable though as the original game was meant to be a commentary on the Cold War and the horrors of nuclear warfare.  And honestly, it succeeds at that far better than any sequel or re-imagining that's been released since.  So if that's the real source of your anger, I totally get that.

 

When's the last time you heard of artillery batteries taking out ICBMs?

 

You really think the whole Earth moves when a missile explodes in the air?  I know this game was never super real or anything, but the original had a firing station display military vibe.  Considering the theme I don't see how the recharged one, that is far more cartoonish and less realistic-looking, has better aesthetics (unless, obviously, the cartoony version is your preference).  I suppose an Unreal Engine version of the game with real-time rendered 3D graphics and textured/shaded landscapes would be more "realistic" but this isn't a first person type game, it's a representation game.  Most of those late '70s/early '80s arcade games were, Asteroids also looks like you're looking at a big radar display type screen, top-down view, you're not actually in the ship looking out a asteroids.  So making those look like actual rocks doesn't really help.  Later you got the attempts at looking at the actual things, Frogger and Xevious and Q*bert, but the earlier games didn't even try to get that detailed, Space Invaders, Space Wars, Sprint, Tank, they were never trying to look real.

 

I don't know if you've actually been in arcades during the '80s but nothing is more "arcade-like experience" than the original '70s/'80s games that were in the actual arcades, ok?  This isn't the Tyrell Corporation in "Blade Runner" with their "More Human Than Human" sales pitch, the original is by default always the most true to that arcade experience, no remake is going to improve on that.  CRTs, leaf-switches/dedicated controls, coins/tokens, that's the goal.  Not feasible at home, of course, but the graphics and sound and gameplay are. 8-bit!

 

Have you seen actual video footage of ABMs trying to knock down targets?  Do you really think this "recharged" version captures that better than the original?  Black Spinning Things at the points of impact?

 

 

Check out those aerial explosions!  Pretty bright, pretty colorful.

 

11 hours ago, KainXavier said:

Lastly, I like the music.  I feel like it captures the era in which Missile Command was released.  Also, composing music requires just as much skill as playing an instrument does so I don't really understand that argument.  And if you're still hung up on the instrumentation, many bands have a keyboardist or DJ that handles all of the synth / computer-aided stuff.  You'd be hard-pressed to argue that Richard Wright of Pink Floyd is not a musician.

I was in that era in which Missile Command was released, believe me, that garbage doesn't capture it.  At all.  Like the synthy music or don't, but it's got nothing to do with playing Missile Command when it first came out, or any other old-school arcade games.  I remember when EightyTwo first opened, I went out there and it was fantastic.  And even that isn't "accurate" arcade because it's 21+ age due to a bar in the arcade games area (never had that when I was a kid!) but they have a rotating set of arcade games (and a separate pinball area) and they play (or did, haven't been there in a few years) period-correct music.  I couldn't stop smiling.  No synthwave, that's for goddamn sure.

 

Composing requires as much skill, yes, but not the same skills.  There are great composers who suck at playing and great players who can't compose for shit.  There is a little overlap, too, obviously.  I'm not against keyboardists, I'm against creating complete synthwave "music" on a laptop without need for any music talent.  Richard Wright is fine, he can play keyboards (and sing), I'm a big fan of Jon Lord, Rick Wakeman, John Paul Jones (duh), Stevie Wonder, etc.  I'm not a fan of some pasty clown in front of a laptop plinking through notes in a synth program coming up with a new song in 10 minutes that sounds like every other robotic synthwave song out there.  And I'm especially not in the mood to be told by people who weren't around back then that this synthwave shit is so true to the era when I was clearly listening to much better music back then.  This crap didn't exist back then, no music software or AutoTune that could generate whole songs.

 

If you want to musically set the mood for your nostalgia arcade games at home game night, break out the music from that era that was in those arcades at the time.  From what I remember (I was there to play games, not listen to music) there was Van Halen, The Police, Missing Persons, The Cars, Led Zeppelin, Aerosmith, Duran Duran, The Go-Go's, Ozzy Osbourne, Blondie, Devo, Tears For Fears, Deep Purple, The Pretenders, Pat Benatar, Scorpions, Oingo Boingo, etc., all mushed together.  If you want only the New Wave side of it, pick from this -

 

https://spinditty.com/genres/Best-New-Wave-Bands (not sure all those bands should be on that particular list but they're from the era)

 

But stop supporting the worst of "music", synthwave has no place in '80s arcades or being associated with those games, even remakes.  If anything, logically a "recharged" game should have a modern band's cover of those older songs, so modern rock band covers the rock side, modern pop/new wave band covers the rest.  But a band, with musicians playing physical instruments.  How hard is that?

Edited September 19, 2023 by ledzep

[KainXavier]

@ledzep

I was unaware of that crewman's accounting so it's entirely possible that Dave Theurer drew inspiration from it.  I always assumed it was just artistic license, especially since the missiles are neon-colored as well.

Also, I used the phrase "artillery fire" to describe the sound because a) that's what it sounds like to me, and b) both the ABM's and the ICBM's in Recharged look like mortar shells to me.  They're still missiles obviously.  It's just artistic license.

Regarding the screen shaking, large explosions generate pressure waves which you can feel and which can also cause the ground to vibrate.  So yes, a missile exploding in the air could cause the earth to tremor.  You don't have to like the effect, I just think it's cool.

 

I was alive during the 1980's, and I also owned a 2600 growing up.  I enjoy many of the games from that era or earlier, but I also don't think they should be held up on a pedestal.  New arcade games and arcade-like experiences are still being released.  Some of them are better than what has come before.  I think Missile Command: Recharged is one of those instances.  It's a better representation of what I think an arcade-style missile defense game should be.  At least gameplay-wise, anyway.

As for the music, I grew up listening to music from the 1950's onward.  I like most genres, including synthwave.  I realize synthwave wasn't played in the arcades back then, but it still evokes that era for me.  It's both retro-sounding and futuristic, and 80's pop-culture practically screamed retro-future.  Also, there was no one genre of music that played at the arcades I frequented.  It was usually whatever was popular at the time.  The only music I really associate with the arcade is the music from the games themselves, and I'd much rather have original soundtracks than licensed songs or cover bands.  You might not like the soundtrack for Missile Command: Recharged but that doesn't mean it didn't take skill to create.  The computer is just another type of instrument in my mind.

Edited September 20, 2023 by KainXavier

[+GoldLeader]

So,

 

 

Modern video games,...Seem to have a syndrome.  @ledzep kind of nailed it.  But I try to be severely open-minded.  Imagine if you cut off my head;  Now that would be an open mind!   Damn that is so Metal!  But I digress...

 

I don't own any of these mega modern systems (Does Wii U count?)...So I clicked on some vids from above. (So for kicks,  I'm simply imagining playing them).   For Centipede,  I'd definitely prefer the original.  Strangely for Missile Command,  I could go either way.   It's different but looks fun.  Although I really think both should be played with a track ball, but then it hit me, when Missile Command for Atari VCS oh excuse me 2600, since Retari named a console with the exact same name for no good reason anyone has ever come up with,...Anyway,  back in the 80's when one of the first very well done arcade conversions came out and I'm referring to Missile Command for 2600,  we weren't playing it with a trackball...Same for Centipede.   Hmmm What do I know?...

 

As for New Wave,  my thoughts (not dictionary, nor wiki definitions, mind you) are probably right in between zep and roots...And I'd be the wrong guy to ask.  I remember fondly MTV,  but only from seeing it at friends' houses as I had no cable.   Mainly at the time,  I hated most of it and wrote it off as radio music (give or take the true classics,  Will agree with Duran Duran,..But also certain songs,  Der Kommissar, Major Tom, She Blinded Me with Science, Mad World, Safety Dance, One Night In Bangkok, 99 Luftballons, etc.) because I liked Metal, Punk, and Heavy stuff!  But fast forward a bit and NOW I Love 80's Music!   Lots of it! (Not the slow, adult, overly sappy stuff usually, but the stuff with that 80's vibe including keyboards)...Sure there's nostalgia,...But also, It really takes me back to simpler times...Compare it, to say R & B from the 90's or current autotuned pop crap and there's no contest.  There's lots of stuff I would have hated then that I love now!

 

(more) Quick derail, as for The Smiths,  ledzep,  I don't think you'd ever like them per se, and perhaps they are overrated, but they do have better songs than that.  I like this song,  because the guitar is like a drone, (a tremoloed looping kind of rhythmic feature,  then additional guitars for emphasis, and the interplay between them)...Best ignore the lyrics.   They're another good example of something I like now but would have hated in the 80's...How Soon is Now?

 

Back to the Modern VS Old School,  which is a bit of a de facto argument in this thread...Well here's an example;  I like Space Invaders,  one of the iconic early arcade classics...Old School on many systems,  I've always liked Space Invaders, clone games and homebrews of it,  yet I also bought Space Invaders Extreme.  It's a Balls Out in your face techno remix blast version of the game, that feels partially like Space Invaders and partially like your roommate just drank 6 Mountain Dews,  threw on a rave CD,  and a snowboarding video in the background of your Space Invaders.  Now,  I enjoyed it (Despite the carsick, flying algebra problems background,  which I wish could be shut off)...And if I'm in the right mood I'll probably fire it up from time to time...Yet,  ya just can't beat kicking back to,  say the SNES version, Atari, or even the OG Game Boy version of the game because it simply captures the nostalgia of the time And has great gameplay! 

 

(Comparative Study:  Old VS New)  I can like both...But timeless will likely only describe the originals...

[roots.genoa]

9 hours ago, ledzep said:

Don't tell me a human played drums on that, though.

Yes, I tell you a human played drums on that. 🙂 Here is a live version:

That kind of drum section is actually very common in New Wave.
Joy Division and New Order's Stephen Morris used to play a lot more convoluted drum tracks back in the days: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f3gPi3b2LVk

 

Regarding Johnny Marr, you won't necessarily find impressive stuff in his early work, you know? Also, he's not what people call a "guitar hero", that's for sure, but he's a very talented guitar player and quite sought after. He played guitar on Hans Zimmer's movie soundtracks for instance.

Edited September 20, 2023 by roots.genoa

[ledzep]

3 hours ago, KainXavier said:

@ledzep

I was unaware of that crewman's accounting so it's entirely possible that Dave Theurer drew inspiration from it.  I always assumed it was just artistic license, especially since the missiles are neon-colored as well.

 

Ya, I think that was just to delineate levels, random color palates like Centipede has.

 

3 hours ago, KainXavier said:

Regarding the screen shaking, large explosions generate pressure waves which you can feel and which can also cause the ground to vibrate.  So yes, a missile exploding in the air could cause the earth to tremor.  You don't have to like the effect, I just think it's cool.

 

I see what you mean but I would think that ground detonations (artillery rounds, tank shots) would do that much more than high up in the air since those aren't very big explosions, it's not like the ICBM warheads actually detonate with a nuclear explosion (which would be massive), it's just a small ABM taking out a falling warhead miles in the air.

 

3 hours ago, KainXavier said:

I was alive during the 1980's, and I also owned a 2600 growing up.  I enjoy many of the games from that era or earlier, but I also don't think they should be held up on a pedestal.  New arcade games and arcade-like experiences are still being released.  Some of them are better than what has come before.  I think Missile Command: Recharged is one of those instances.  It's a better representation of what I think an arcade-style missile defense game should be.  At least gameplay-wise, anyway.

 

I can see that, but I see it differently, meaning I do put those early games on a pedestal.  They were (to my mind) the best versions of arcade games, period.  Some modern games are amazing, especially the home PC games, the first person/photoreal shit that no arcade cabinet could have hoped to achieve but those aren't arcade games to me.  Saying "arcade game" is sort of saying "dragster", meaning a very specific type of gaming experience.  To me that's standing in front of a cabinet, (usually) one screen, some controls.  Those games are meant to not last too long (need to make money) and they're usually frantic or hard or puzzles (platformers).  Once you get the controls and the gameplay down, there's nothing to make them play better.  You can make them look better (higher resolution/more colors, I guess) but arcade games are restricted to mostly movements around a screen while dodging shots or enemies.  So I can see a preference for these "recharged" games in terms of looks or whatever, but they'll never be more arcade than the original arcade versions.

[ledzep]

1 hour ago, GoldLeader said:

I don't own any of these mega modern systems (Does Wii U count?)...So I clicked on some vids from above. (So for kicks,  I'm simply imagining playing them).   For Centipede,  I'd definitely prefer the original.  Strangely for Missile Command,  I could go either way.   It's different but looks fun.  Although I really think both should be played with a track ball, but then it hit me, when Missile Command for Atari VCS oh excuse me 2600, since Retari named a console with the exact same name for no good reason anyone has ever come up with,...Anyway,  back in the 80's when one of the first very well done arcade conversions came out and I'm referring to Missile Command for 2600,  we weren't playing it with a trackball...Same for Centipede.   Hmmm What do I know?...

 

And that's what the 5200 and it's beautiful trak-ball are for!  I think honestly that that's the closest you're going to get to '80s 8-bit arcade games in the home.  Not including MAME, of course.  But there was no MAME in the '80s, MAME doesn't use actual '80s hardware (though I suppose it can as far as controllers go), it's all emulation on PCs.  For actual '80s gear, it's either the 5200, the ColecoVision, the Vectrex or the 7800?  I suppose I'm missing a console there.  I don't include the Intellivision because I played that thing and it's sad, not arcade-like at all.  I can't say I'm a true purist but if I'm playing '80s games, I want them on '80s era gear.  Which would include a CRT.  Phosphors!

 

1 hour ago, GoldLeader said:

As for New Wave,  my thoughts (not dictionary, nor wiki definitions, mind you) are probably right in between zep and roots...And I'd be the wrong guy to ask.  I remember fondly MTV,  but only from seeing it at friends' houses as I had no cable.   Mainly at the time,  I hated most of it and wrote it off as radio music (give or take the true classics,  Will agree with Duran Duran,..But also certain songs,  Der Kommissar, Major Tom, She Blinded Me with Science, Mad World, Safety Dance, One Night In Bangkok, 99 Luftballons, etc.) because I liked Metal, Punk, and Heavy stuff!  But fast forward a bit and NOW I Love 80's Music!   Lots of it! (Not the slow, adult, overly sappy stuff usually, but the stuff with that 80's vibe including keyboards)...Sure there's nostalgia,...But also, It really takes me back to simpler times...Compare it, to say R & B from the 90's or current autotuned pop crap and there's no contest.  There's lots of stuff I would have hated then that I love now!

 

Careful, there's no such thing as "'80s music".  All the genres were present in the '80s, it's too wide.  When most people say '80s music they mean New Wave and neon clothes.  But when I say '80s music I mean Dio, Ozzy, Aerosmith, Van Halen, etc., because all that hard rock (and more) was definitely present during the '80s.  So if you mean New Wave, say New Wave.  Same with '70s music doesn't mean just disco, it also means Led Zeppelin, Deep Purple, Yes, etc.

 

I do get the nostalgia of it, some garbage New Wave crap will bring a smile to my face because I can almost see the old arcades or being at my friend's house watching MTV or being in high school/college or whatever.  But I don't own any of it!  Not sure my CD player would accept such a disk, hahahaa.

 

1 hour ago, GoldLeader said:

(more) Quick derail, as for The Smiths,  ledzep,  I don't think you'd ever like them per se, and perhaps they are overrated, but they do have better songs than that.  I like this song,  because the guitar is like a drone, (a tremoloed looping kind of rhythmic feature,  then additional guitars for emphasis, and the interplay between them)...Best ignore the lyrics.   They're another good example of something I like now but would have hated in the 80's...How Soon is Now?

 

Goddamn you.  I had managed to forget that that miserable song existed.  Yes, I've heard it many times, hated it each time.  That singer seriously sounds like he's melodically complaining.  Every song, something has disappointed him and he can't simply whine about how it sucks, he has to sing flat about it because he's so melodramatic.  Aaauugh!!  Just kill yourself, dude!  Get some sun at least!

 

1 hour ago, GoldLeader said:

Back to the Modern VS Old School,  which is a bit of a de facto argument in this thread...Well here's an example;  I like Space Invaders,  one of the iconic early arcade classics...Old School on many systems,  I've always liked Space Invaders, clone games and homebrews of it,  yet I also bought Space Invaders Extreme.  It's a Balls Out in your face techno remix blast version of the game, that feels partially like Space Invaders and partially like your roommate just drank 6 Mountain Dews,  threw on a rave CD,  and a snowboarding video in the background of your Space Invaders.  Now,  I enjoyed it (Despite the carsick, flying algebra problems background,  which I wish could be shut off)...And if I'm in the right mood I'll probably fire it up from time to time...Yet,  ya just can't beat kicking back to,  say the SNES version, Atari, or even the OG Game Boy version of the game because it simply captures the nostalgia of the time And has great gameplay! 

 

Egh, that game is crap.  It's like Space Invaders raped Galaga and had an autistic spawn.  More flashy pointless additions, big puffy explosions, to no gain.  The original is much better.  Now, to be fair, Space Invaders isn't on the top of my must-play list, either, I know even for 8-bit games it's simple compared to later games once the programmers really started getting the hang of making cool games.  If I'm in the mood for one of those games I'll play Moon Cresta or Space Firebird, not Space Invaders.  And get my ass handed to me, but still.

 

1 hour ago, GoldLeader said:

(Comparative Study:  Old VS New)  I can like both...But timeless will likely only describe the originals...

 

Ya.

Edited September 20, 2023 by ledzep

[ledzep]

1 hour ago, roots.genoa said:

Yes, I tell you a human played drums on that. 🙂 Here is a live version:

That kind of drum section is actually very common in New Wave.

 

I stand corrected, the studio version sounded like a drum machine initially to me.  It's lifeless.  This live version sounds much better.  I guess these guys are sort of like Blue Öyster Cult, another band with very bland, sometimes plodding studio takes that sounded great live.

 

1 hour ago, roots.genoa said:

Joy Division and New Order's Stephen Morris used to play a lot more convoluted drum tracks back in the days: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f3gPi3b2LVk

 

I wouldn't call that convoluted so much as just taking a straightforward drum idea and doubling all the beats.  It sounds more energetic and frantic, but my brain automatically strips out the doubled beats and hears a very standard beat.  Nothing against standard beats, of course, Rock is littered with them, though they get boring after a while.  And that guitarist (dark shirt) sounds like me trying to figure out a song from memory but I only have 5 minutes to get it right.

 

If I'm in the mood for that type of Smiths New Wave musical sound then I'll lean towards King Crimson or better yet Saga, progressive rock versions of that vibe, much more talented and interesting to me.

 

 

 

My brother told me Saga sounds like if Oingo Boingo was good enough to play rock music, hahaaha.  He's not wrong.  Saga is a really talented group, not the typical flat New Wave singing or plinky guitars (that guitar player is really underrated), the singer does sort of sound like the Oingo Boingo singer.  And it's from the '80s but I bet nobody mentions them in their favorite "'80s music" picks.  Goddamn, I wish I could have seen them just once live.

 

2 hours ago, roots.genoa said:

Regarding Johnny Marr, you won't necessarily find impressive stuff in his early work, you know? Also, he's not what people call a "guitar hero", that's for sure, but he's a very talented guitar player and quite sought after. He played guitar on Hans Zimmer's movie soundtracks for instance.

 

I don't need "guitar hero", just, to quote Gunny Highway -

 

https://getyarn.io/yarn-clip/897ea6fa-7222-4ab1-b530-e0a6b8e7efb7

 

I've explained this before, when I listen to music I'm expecting to hear something I wish I could play (but can't, or can't do it easily).  Ooh, how did he do that?  That sounds really cool, what style is that?  New Wave, most of it, sounded like shit me and my friends could cobble together in a day.  Except the vocals, I don't think any of us could maintain that depressing flat singing without cracking up.

 

Soundtracks are their own animal.  I really like Trevor Rabin, he was the new replacement guitarist for Yes during the 90125 era, South African player.  Really good.  He also does soundtracks which I guess are good but I don't care, it's not Yes or his solo stuff.

[roots.genoa]

27 minutes ago, ledzep said:

And that guitarist (dark shirt) sounds like me trying to figure out a song from memory but I only have 5 minutes to get it right.

Yes, Bernard Sumner has never been a good musician compared to the drummer (clearly the best in the band), but he's an awesome composer imho and his music influenced A LOT of people, objectively speaking. That you don't like them is not relevant I'm afraid. 😝

 

Regarding Johnny Marr, I'm just saying that if the most powerful film music composer in Hollywood today works with him, he must be somehow competent. 😉 And I get the "I wish I could play" thing, but that's precisely what I feel for Aline's guitar track for instance. If it sounds easy for you, good for you! But I'm not very fond of the Satriani-like solos that often sound "detached" from the songs (not sure I can express this well in English).

 

Anyway, to each their own. We clearly have totally different tastes in music. 🤷‍♂️

[zzip]

16 hours ago, ledzep said:

"renowned" must be more subjective than I'm used to.  Maybe it's the sunglasses.  This embodies everything I hate about that kind of music.  Bored/depressed singing going flat in every verse (suicidal crooner), twangy/jangly guitars, metronome-y drums, complainy lyrics (rich people blues, hahaaha), they sound like making music is a chore and they'd rather be doing anything else.  Ugh, that shitty falsetto, I'd forgotten about that go-to.  Great theme music for the current younger generations, though, those fuckers aren't satisfied with anything.

 

5 hours ago, ledzep said:

Goddamn you.  I had managed to forget that that miserable song existed.  Yes, I've heard it many times, hated it each time.  That singer seriously sounds like he's melodically complaining.  Every song, something has disappointed him and he can't simply whine about how it sucks, he has to sing flat about it because he's so melodramatic.  Aaauugh!!  Just kill yourself, dude!  Get some sun at least!

 

Morrisey (Smiths Singer) is in a class of his own when it comes to "bored/depressed melodically complaining"    That said, there are two songs by him I actually like:   "Everyday is like Sunday" and..   well I forget the other one.

 

But I disagree that most of the music of that era was like that.  Most of it is happier and more upbeat, and even the darker songs don't resort to Morrisey-style vocals.  Well maybe the Cure is in that class...

 

 

 

 

[jerseystyle]

Surprised with all the Synth/New wave talk no one has mentioned Abstract Void- an awesome combo of Synth and Black Metal