The Harmony Cart works on the 2600+ one game at a time, Awesome!

[John Stamos Mullet]

3 hours ago, E. King said:

After watching this video I wish I could change the thread title and remove the word "Awesome"

 

It is not so "awesome" after all.

 

Only 4kb or less games seem to work which is a real drag.

 

After knowing this, I doubt I will even break the seal on my 2600+ when it arrives unless another option comes to play more types of roms.

 

Atari really screwed the customer by not adding an sd card slot like the Retron 77 has.

There will be updates to the 2600+ to address all of this. Patience.

[Jstick]

3 hours ago, E. King said:

Atari really screwed the customer by not adding an sd card slot like the Retron 77 has.

To be fair, there are so many other ways to play "ROMs"; I think this is just a different type of device (even though technically it may be doing something similar behind the scenes).

I don't really see lack of SD support as a failing, I think Atari was aiming for the console that many were asking for:  A first-party 2600 replica that plays original carts on modern displays, with all functions controlled by hardware switches (as with the original) and no menu/settings/configuration to take you out of the experience.
 

Adding more support for problematic cartridges is the way to go here, and hopefully the Harmony cart can be better supported via an update, even if the full flashcart functionality isn't possible.

[tradyblix]

4 minutes ago, Jstick said:

To be fair, there are so many other ways to play "ROMs"; I think this is just a different type of device (even though technically it may be doing something similar behind the scenes).

I don't really see lack of SD support as a failing, I think Atari was aiming for the console that many were asking for:  A first-party 2600 replica that plays original carts on modern displays, with all functions controlled by hardware switches (as with the original) and no menu/settings/configuration to take you out of the experience.
 

Adding more support for problematic cartridges is the way to go here, and hopefully the Harmony cart can be better supported via an update, even if the full flashcart functionality isn't possible.

I agree. Actually now that I have to get physical carts it's making me appreciate and spend a bit more time with the games than if it's just a rom loader. There's no soul in such a device honestly. It's like playing a cassette again. 

[E. King]

13 hours ago, Jstick said:

To be fair, there are so many other ways to play "ROMs"; I think this is just a different type of device (even though technically it may be doing something similar behind the scenes).

I don't really see lack of SD support as a failing, I think Atari was aiming for the console that many were asking for:  A first-party 2600 replica that plays original carts on modern displays, with all functions controlled by hardware switches (as with the original) and no menu/settings/configuration to take you out of the experience.

Adding more support for problematic cartridges is the way to go here, and hopefully the Harmony cart can be better supported via an update, even if the full flashcart functionality isn't possible.

Some games that are incompatible with the rom dumper could work from sd card.  For example, there are many games that you can play on a Retron 77 or Gamestation Pro that the 2600+ is not currently capable of due to the limitations because of the lack of the sd card slot.

 

Also, using software emulation sort of negates the need for an actual cartridge since the 2600+ does not even play the game from the cartridge, it dumps the rom to internal memory and emulates the game from there so why not skip the unnecessary step and play the rom from an sd card.

 

Why would you not want the option to load a homebrew game to an sd card when many homebrew games will never see a physical cartridge? I guess you just don't want to be able to play some cool new homebrew games on your 2600+ but many others would like to do just that.  Many of these homebrew games are above the 4kb restriction that the 2600+ currently has with the Harmony cart.

 

Sure it would be nice if they update the 2600+ to be more compatible with the Harmony cart but I have not seen any indication of that anywhere that they plan on doing that. How do we know they did not intentionally limit the function of the Harmony cart to roms 4kb or less?

 

There are just too many current limitations for me to consider the 2600+ a useful product for me as I have too many other much better options.  For the very casual others who may have no other options or limited options to play 2600/7800 games, it will be great for them with nothing else to compare it to.

[John Stamos Mullet]

8 hours ago, E. King said:

How do we know they did not intentionally limit the function of the Harmony cart to roms 4kb or less?

Because developer from the company who made it literally posts on the board every day. (Ben from Plaion). They didn’t do anything to intentionally inhibit the Harmony. 

Edited November 27, 2023 by John Stamos Mullet

[tradyblix]

On 11/26/2023 at 2:32 PM, E. King said:

Some games that are incompatible with the rom dumper could work from sd card.  For example, there are many games that you can play on a Retron 77 or Gamestation Pro that the 2600+ is not currently capable of due to the limitations because of the lack of the sd card slot.

 

Also, using software emulation sort of negates the need for an actual cartridge since the 2600+ does not even play the game from the cartridge, it dumps the rom to internal memory and emulates the game from there so why not skip the unnecessary step and play the rom from an sd card.

 

Why would you not want the option to load a homebrew game to an sd card when many homebrew games will never see a physical cartridge? I guess you just don't want to be able to play some cool new homebrew games on your 2600+ but many others would like to do just that.  Many of these homebrew games are above the 4kb restriction that the 2600+ currently has with the Harmony cart.

 

Sure it would be nice if they update the 2600+ to be more compatible with the Harmony cart but I have not seen any indication of that anywhere that they plan on doing that. How do we know they did not intentionally limit the function of the Harmony cart to roms 4kb or less?

 

There are just too many current limitations for me to consider the 2600+ a useful product for me as I have too many other much better options.  For the very casual others who may have no other options or limited options to play 2600/7800 games, it will be great for them with nothing else to compare it to.

Well, don't get it then. Play on your computer instead. 

[Aragorn7]

4 hours ago, tradyblix said:

Well, don't get it then. Play on your computer instead. 

I also bought the 2600+ with the full knowledge in advance that it would not play multi-carts and it would not play most homebrews requiring extra memory or with memory addressing differences. I knew what I was getting when I bought it. So I understand your sentiment. Does that mean that I don't wish it could be like the 7800 and play all the 2600/7800 homebrews and multi-carts? Of course not. That's the reason I believe it is OK, if @E. King wants to express his disappointment. Everyone thinks a little different and it is not like he's bashing Atari. He is an Atari Fan. Perhaps Atari will come out with an adapter that will allow for roms. Who knows? I do think Atari benefits from hearing input from all their customers. Like most everyone else here, I've spent a whole lot of money with Atari -- more than my wife would like. 😄  I think we can be both invested fans and share our differing opinions. At the very least we can tolerate them. 😉

Edited November 29, 2023 by Aragorn7

[John Stamos Mullet]

8 minutes ago, Aragorn7 said:

I also bought the 2600+ with the full knowledge in advance that it would not play multi-carts and it would not play most homebrews requiring extra memory or with memory addressing differences. I knew what I was getting when I bought it. So I understand your sentiment. Does that mean that I don't wish it could be like the 7800 and play all the 2600/7800 homebrews and multi-carts? Of course not. That's the reason I believe it is OK, if @E. King wants to express his disappointment. Everyone thinks a little different and it is not like he's bashing Atari. He is an Atari Fan. Perhaps Atari will come out with an adapter that will allow for roms. Who knows? I do think Atari benefits from hearing input from all their customers. Like most everyone else here, I've spent a whole lot of money with Atari -- more than my wife would like. 😄  I think we can be both invested fans and share our differing opinions. At the very least we can tolerate them. 😉

If you read some of E. king’s earlier posts, he was clearly not aware of the 2600+ incompatibility with SD carts and some games, because he didn’t do his homework. Then he came here and complained loudly, going as far as to insinuate the 2600+ development team had intentionally hampered the consoles ability to do what he wanted it to do. 
 

being disappointed in missing features is not the same thing as being insultingly disrespectful and accusatory of ulterior motives.

Edited November 29, 2023 by John Stamos Mullet

[E. King]

When I started this thread, I wrongfully assumed the Harmony cart would work with most any rom size.

 

It makes no sense the Harmony cart only works on the 2600+ with 4kb or less roms.

 

Why would I use the 2600+ for 2600 games on hdmi screen when my Retron 77 has an sd card slot with more capabilities.

 

The Atari Gamestation also has an sd card slot but unfortunately no 9 pin ports.

 

We will see if Atari cares enough to fix compatibility for playing roms from Harmony.

 

The fact remains they should have done the right thing and just included an sd card slot as they have done in other devices.

 

 

[+GoldLeader]

31 minutes ago, Aragorn7 said:

I also bought the 2600+ with the full knowledge in advance that it would not play multi-carts and it would not play most homebrews requiring extra memory or with memory addressing differences. I knew what I was getting when I bought it. So I understand your sentiment. Does that mean that I don't wish it could be like the 7800 and play all the 2600/7800 homebrews and multi-carts? Of course not. That's the reason I believe it is OK, if @E. King wants to express his disappointment. Everyone thinks a little different and it is not like he's bashing Atari. He is an Atari Fan. Perhaps Atari will come out with an adapter that will allow for roms. Who knows? I do think Atari benefits from hearing input from all their customers. Like most everyone else here, I've spent a whole lot of money with Atari -- more than my wife would like. 😄  I think we can be both invested fans and share our differing opinions. At the very least we can tolerate them. 😉

 

Free speech!  I like that everyone can have an opinion.

 

25 minutes ago, John Stamos Mullet said:

If you read some of E. king’s earlier posts, he was clearly not aware of the 2600+ incompatibility with SD carts and some games, because he didn’t do his homework. Then he came here and complained loudly, going as far as to insinuate the 2600+ development team had intentionally hampered the consoles ability to do what he wanted it to do. 
 

being disappointed in missing features is not the same thing as being insultingly disrespectful and accusatory of ulterior motives.

 

12 minutes ago, E. King said:

When I started this thread, I wrongfully assumed the Harmony cart would work with most any rom size.

 

It makes no sense the Harmony cart only works on the 2600+ with 4kb or less roms.

 

Why would I use the 2600+ for 2600 games on hdmi screen when my Retron 77 has an sd card slot with more capabilities.

 

The Atari Gamestation also has an sd card slot but unfortunately no 9 pin ports.

 

We will see if Atari cares enough to fix compatibility for playing roms from Harmony.

 

The fact remains they should have done the right thing and just included an sd card slot as they have done in other devices.

 

 

 

How to put this?

 

I'm definitely in the middle ground with regards to this product,  yet Very Happy I didn't buy one.  (I'm somewhere in between John Stamos Mullet and E. King,  but leaning towards E. King's viewpoint more and more (but more on that in a sec)).   I will say I don't think it's been stated forcefully enough that this thing will not work with a Harmony cart...Can they figure out a workaround?  While I have my doubts,  It would be Extremely neato if they somehow DID figure it out,  and I don't mean selecting just one (compatible) ROM at a time, ahead of time...

 

I can feel E. King's frustration and largely agree,...All except that they intentionally hampered it!  (That makes no sense at all).

 

No,  my problem with this lies in marketing.  Yes,  we who are on AtariAge, by and large,  know exactly what this product is.  YET,  An Email from AtariAge and advertising this from ATARI ITSELF seems to show the Dream Product!  I imagined myself reading about it like an average consumer...Pretend for a moment that I just looked at Nutari's marketing.  (It appears to be a recreation of the 2600,...While you may not even know the difference between an off the shelf parts recreation, an FPGA, or a ROM dumper/emulator).

 

It starts off:

No Cartridge Left Behind     (Sorry Atari,  This is a blatant lie!  There's Plenty of Carts left behind!  Homebrews, ARM+, DPC etc.  They sent this to AtariAge members!   The average consumer may not know about all of these,  but they're still going to be disappointed that Pitfall! 2 doesn't work)

It continues:

 

Enjoy your favorite Atari 2600 and 7800 games on one system!   Again a lie,  if not a blatant one,  and I doubt they know my Favorites including 7800 and 2600 homebrews etc.

 

It then lists Features:

 

Features

The Atari 2600+ is an updated version of the iconic Atari 2600 and has been enhanced in the following ways:

- Plays both Atari 2600 and 7800 game cartridges
- HDMI output makes it easy to connect
- Widescreen mode
- Enlarged cartridge socket reduces sticking
- Atari logo lights up when being played

 

All Great stuff right?  But...Still No Mention of Incompatibilities, no Mention Yet of Emulation,  Not even an asterix after saying it plays Atari 2600 and 7800 carts...I'd be on the edge of my seat if I didn't already know where this was eventually headed...

 

You are still some clicks away from finding out it is using Emulation...And,  imagining this as an average consumer,  who may have heard about it elsewhere and been led to Atari's website from a different spot.  I mean,  at this point some old timers are already scrambling for their credit cards.  Maybe,  they'll get one and figure it out later.  I suppose as an AtariAger (or maybe the type who spends a lot of time on Youtube watching videos about upcoming products),  there's little excuse for not knowing what this product is,  but for everyone else; (and I say this Not holding it against Atari that they released this as a product),  Atari should have been more forthcoming about what they're selling here.

 

 

[E. King]

1 hour ago, GoldLeader said:

No Cartridge Left Behind

 

Yeah whoever came up with that slogan should be very proud of themselves.   It is probably the same person that now describes the VCS as "seamless" 🤣

 

That is for sure very misleading and quite hilarious.

 

Even though they seem pretty confident they can vastly improve compatibility with updates, most people will never update their firmware and will be stuck with the way it shipped.  

[Aragorn7]

1 hour ago, GoldLeader said:

Atari should have been more forthcoming about what they're selling here.

I must say that I agree with your response. I also agree that we should not accuse anyone of ulterior motives unless we have proof. You're thoughts on Atari's marketing are in my opinion accurate as I, too, read all of this on their web site. Unfortunately almost all companies are guilty of this type of marketing with the caveats in the fine print. This is typical of marketers. Marketing companies are paid to do one thing -- move product. The manufacturers have to comply with truth in advertising and thus you get the fine print/disclaimer.

I also agree that the average consumer doesn't read the fine print and when they buy something, they expect it to just work right out of the box without understanding what makes it work. Case in point: I actually tried to help another member in this forum who was determined (my emphasis added) that he would buy the 2600+ and that it would work with multi-carts and all homebrews. When I tried to explain to him that the 2600+ was not like the old 2600 and that it only dumped the rom files from the cart in order to emulate it, he seemed offended and said that the information (links) I had provided him was merely my opinion. Well, indeed, it was my opinion, but it was actually supported by facts. I, of course, apologized and told him my only intention was to not have his hopes dashed should he purchase the 2600+. Hopefully he will not criticize Atari, when his console arrives. I tried to help, but since my information did not confirm his expectations, he took umbrage.

This leads me to my final thought. It's a shame that people feel the need to take a position; not hear the other side and then get into a peeing contest. I'm certainly not referring to you. I also understand those who want to defend Atari at all cost, when they think others are inappropriately maligning them. Again, I'm not referring to you. I'd like to think that we could be Atari fans and yet still be rationally objective. If we don't agree, both sides should be able to say, "I don't agree with you for these reasons... and consider the other person's viewpoint. If the sides still don't agree, then they should just amicably agree to disagree and move on. Life is too short to sweat the small stuff. 🙂

Edited November 29, 2023 by Aragorn7

[Thomas Jentzsch]

4 minutes ago, Aragorn7 said:

I, of course, apologized... 

Why? Because you told him the truth, based on real facts? Since when do you have to apologize for this?

[Zap1982]

[Aragorn7]

17 minutes ago, Thomas Jentzsch said:

Why? Because you told him the truth, based on real facts? Since when do you have to apologize for this?

Perhaps he thought I was being a know-it-all. He didn't say why he took issue and people often don't. My goal is not to make enemies, but friends; so I try to be charitable.

[Thomas Jentzsch]

10 minutes ago, Aragorn7 said:

Perhaps he thought I was being a know-it-all. He didn't say why he took issue and people often don't. My goal is not to make enemies, but friends; so I try to be charitable.

Understood. But by apologizing you made him feel that he was right. The more he will be disappointed.

[John Stamos Mullet]

You guys can call this “white knighting” for Atari all you want, but SD carts like the harmony etc. are only available because for the better part of the last 30 years, Atari hasn’t made consoles, or cartridges that are compatible with those consoles. They are a result of Atari no longer being in the business of supporting that hardware model. So all of the legally/ethically questionable positions regarding roms and SD carts didn’t really matter much. 
 

But now that they are back in that business - it matters again.

 

The entitlement of some people, demanding that a legally questionable product that was born out of a dwindling/dead gaming market, and a niche fan desire, that clearly violates the original software maker’s copyrights for the majority of games - be supported on their new hardware designed to capture the spirit of the original and intended to be a profitable product - it’s just plain facepalm worthy. 
 

Atari is a for profit company, not a charity entity. They are not the “make a software pirate wish foundation”.

 

being upset that Atari’s new console isn’t immediately hackable/exploitable is like being mad at  the movie theater owner for putting locks on the back door so you can’t sneak all your friends in. 
 

The 2600+ is much like buying a vinyl record player in 2023. You’re not going to buy one and then complain it doesn’t play your CDs or MP3’s. Right?   Right???

Edited November 29, 2023 by John Stamos Mullet

[Thomas Jentzsch]

45 minutes ago, John Stamos Mullet said:

The 2600+ is much like buying a vinyl record player in 2023. You’re not going to buy one and then complain it doesn’t play your CDs or MP3’s. Right?   Right?

No, the 2600+ is much more like a player, which records your vinyl (only black ones) as digital data and then sends the recorded data to an internal MP3-player. Which uses the build-in digital amplifier to create an output signal for your speakers.

 

And the MP3-player cannot be feed via USB or SD-card.  

Edited November 29, 2023 by Thomas Jentzsch

[E. King]

16 minutes ago, John Stamos Mullet said:

You guys can call this “white knighting” for Atari all you want, but SD carts like the harmony etc. are only available because for the better part of the last 30 years, Atari hasn’t made consoles, or cartridges that are compatible with those consoles. They are a result of Atari no longer being in the business of supporting that hardware model. So all of the legally/ethically questionable positions regarding roms and SD carts didn’t really matter much. 
 

But now that they are back in that business - it matters again.

 

The entitlement of some people, demanding that a legally questionable product that was born out of a dwindling/dead gaming market, and a niche fan desire, that clearly violates the original software maker’s copyrights for the majority of games - be supported on their new hardware designed to capture the spirit of the original and intended to be a profitable product - it’s just plain facepalm worthy. 
 

Atari is a for profit company, not a charity entity. They are not the “make a software pirate wish foundation”.

 

being upset that Atari’s new console isn’t immediately hackable/exploitable is like being mad at  the movie theater owner for putting locks on the back door so you can’t sneak all your friends in. 
 

The 2600+ is much like buying a vinyl record player in 2023. You’re not going to buy one and then complain it doesn’t play your CDs or MP3’s. Right?   Right???

Your “white knighting” for Atari is very Hilarious!

 

As if Atari did not just put their brand name on the Gamestation Pro with an SD card slot that launched basically right along side the 2600+.

 

And as if Atari did not just buy Atari Age who sells Harmony carts and 7800 Game Drives.

 

Is Atari all of a sudden going to recall the Gamestation Pro because of the sd card slot? Nope!

 

Is Atari all of a sudden going to stop selling Harmony carts and 7800 Game Drives? Nope!

 

These products are needed to play awesome Homebrew game roms that will never see a physical cartridge release.

 

If Atari does not update the 2600+ with more Harmony and/or 7800Gamedrive compatibility then you better believe there is going to be a hack/mod sooner rather than later that will allow expanded rom play somehow.

 

 

[Aragorn7]

18 minutes ago, John Stamos Mullet said:

You guys can call this “white knighting” for Atari all you want, but SD carts like the harmony etc. are only available because for the better part of the last 30 years, Atari hasn’t made consoles, or cartridges that are compatible with those consoles. They are a result of Atari no longer being in the business of supporting that hardware model. So all of the legally/ethically questionable positions regarding roms and SD carts didn’t really matter much. 
 

But now that they are back in that business - it matters again.

 

The entitlement of some people, demanding that a legally questionable product that was born out of a dwindling/dead gaming market, and a niche fan desire, that clearly violates the original software maker’s copyrights for the majority of games - be supported on their new hardware designed to capture the spirit of the original and intended to be a profitable product - it’s just plain facepalm worthy. 
 

Atari is a for profit company, not a charity entity. They are not the “make a software pirate wish foundation”.

 

being upset that Atari’s new console isn’t immediately hackable/exploitable is like being mad at  the movie theater owner for putting locks on the back door so you can’t sneak all your friends in. 
 

The 2600+ is much like buying a vinyl record player in 2023. You’re not going to buy one and then complain it doesn’t play your CDs or MP3’s. Right?   Right???

I quite agree with your sentiment on pirating. I'm not of fan of that practice and never will be. I am, however, a fan of backing up my own roms/bins via something like AtariMax or purchasing new homebrew roms. This is where having a multi-cart (where appropriate) or an SD slot is quite convenient. I've got more carts than I know what to do with. While I have bought a couple of new carts recently, my intention is to continue to go the digital route a la multi-cart, SD, VCS-800 or similar. One day I will be unfortunately downsizing and I will simply not have room for more carts. If Atari or other Devs want to tie your serial number to their roms or use some other form of DRM to protect their IP, I'll be perfectly fine with that. You and I likely agree on this as well. Also, digital is both now and the future and I am convinced Atari will be a very big part of that. 😀

[John Stamos Mullet]

18 minutes ago, E. King said:

Your “white knighting” for Atari is very Hilarious!

 

As if Atari did not just put their brand name on the Gamestation Pro with an SD card slot that launched basically right along side the 2600+.

 

And as if Atari did not just buy Atari Age who sells Harmony carts and 7800 Game Drives.

 

Is Atari all of a sudden going to recall the Gamestation Pro because of the sd card slot? Nope!

 

Is Atari all of a sudden going to stop selling Harmony carts and 7800 Game Drives? Nope!

 

These products are needed to play awesome Homebrew game roms that will never see a physical cartridge release.

 

If Atari does not update the 2600+ with more Harmony and/or 7800Gamedrive compatibility then you better believe there is going to be a hack/mod sooner rather than later that will allow expanded rom play somehow.

 

 

You always have the option of buying the Gameststion Pro. Enjoy the shitty controls and controller sync issues.

 

you also have the option of buying a harmony cart and a 7800 game drive and using that on your original console. YMMV on getting that to display properly on a modern TV. 
 

Atari may even decide to support one or both of those SD carts with a future firmware update. Yay!

 

but they are under no obligation to do so, and all of these complaints are really inconsequential to the point of the 2600+.

 

[Aragorn7]

26 minutes ago, E. King said:

If Atari does not update the 2600+ with more Harmony and/or 7800Gamedrive compatibility then you better believe there is going to be a hack/mod sooner rather than later that will allow expanded rom play somehow.

You could be right, but the least expensive route would likely be either SD or an adapter that could use the existing USB-C port that now appears to be used solely for firmware updates. I believe Ben (Plaion) was asked this question and he discussed the potential viability. My memory could be inaccurate on this point, but I'm pretty sure it was mentioned.

[Thomas Jentzsch]

5 minutes ago, John Stamos Mullet said:

you also have the option of buying a harmony cart and a 7800 game drive and using that on your original console. YMMV on getting that to display properly on a modern TV. 

A $70 R77 does it for the 2600. SD-card for all the ROMs and the same output as the 2600+.

 

But it misses the iconic look and build quality of the 2600+. Also paddles don't work well and besides joysticks no other controllers will ever be supported. That is why it would be a shame if the 2600+ would stay a closed system.

[Thomas Jentzsch]

10 minutes ago, Aragorn7 said:

You could be right, but the least expensive route would likely be either SD or an adapter that could use the existing USB-C port that now appears to be used solely for firmware updates. I believe Ben (Plaion) was asked this question and he discussed the potential viability. My memory could be inaccurate on this point, but I'm pretty sure it was mentioned.

I think that's wishful thinking. Atari wants to sell carts, the 2600+ is the platform for doing this. Why would they open it for other, competing input? 

 

This has do be done by the community.

Edited November 29, 2023 by Thomas Jentzsch

[John Stamos Mullet]

8 minutes ago, Thomas Jentzsch said:

A $70 R77 does it for the 2600. SD-card for all the ROMs and the same output as the 2600+.

 

But it misses the iconic look and build quality of the 2600+. Also paddles don't work well and besides joysticks no other controllers will ever be supported. That is why it would be a shame if the 2600+ would stay a closed system.

It’s already not a “closed system” since it works with the harmony up to 4K Roms. Most of the reason it doesn’t work with larger games is the same reason it doesn’t work with some original carts: dumper/bank switching issues. I would bet that once it is sorted for original carts, it will be for the harmony as well.