Pitfall 2 Question

[Ben from Plaion]

4 hours ago, DEANJIMMY said:

Beamrider works in my case but also needs to be inserted by a gentle slide (this sounds really odd 😉)

Some white Coleco have issues with the dumper (like Time Pilot, Donkey Kong) and others need some care or some people fail to run their copy (like Front Line).

 

And yes, Juno First hurts. I would buy an NTSC cart if possible.

@Ben from Plaion

Hopefully Atari gets the licence to put Juno First on Atariage Store again or release it via Plaion like Berzerk.

But in that case, the Atarivox should work on the 2600+ as well! This game benefits so much from the speech and of cause saving your high score🤙

Costs involved;

 

Konami License

Atari License

Packaging redesign

Age rating 

Regulatory compliance 

COGs per unit on manufacture of cartridge

Logistics to US EU warehouses

Marketing fund

 

Likely already a 5 figure USD cost.

 

How many people would buy a Juno First cartridge on Atari 2600. I tell you with all the the interest stuff like this gets on the internet in places like Atari Age......only a very tiny proportion of people actually would pay for it. You'd be surprised how small this market is.

 

 

 

[+Intellivision Master]

12 minutes ago, Ben from Plaion said:

How many people would buy a Juno First cartridge on Atari 2600.

I would buy it.  It's hard to find the game now on cart.  The rom is still available.  It's a good homebrew for the 2600.  

[Thomas Jentzsch]

27 minutes ago, Ben from Plaion said:

How many people would buy a Juno First cartridge on Atari 2600.

11 minutes ago, Intellivision Master said:

I would buy it.  It's hard to find the game now on cart.  The rom is still available.  It's a good homebrew for the 2600.  

1...  

 

@Ben from Plaion What's the number when it would become interesting?

[Ben from Plaion]

1 minute ago, Thomas Jentzsch said:

1...  

 

@Ben from Plaion What's the number when it would become interesting?

Re-issue 5k

Enhanced 10k

New Game 20k

 

Tiny numbers really. 

[Atariboy]

On the bright side if you own a PS4/PS5 or Nintendo Switch, Hamster is still regularly releasing arcade classics from Konami like a recent release of Loco-Motion. Hopefully only a matter of time until Juno First gets a chance in emulated arcade form.

 

That said, I'd certainly buy an Atari SA release of this fine homebrew port if it ever did manage to happen.

 

 

[Thomas Jentzsch]

3 minutes ago, Ben from Plaion said:

Re-issue 5k

Enhanced 10k

New Game 20k

 

Tiny numbers really. 

That's the number of required sales? Doesn't make sense to me.

[Atariboy]

At the end of the day regardless of how great of a game it is in both homebrew 2600 form and the original arcade release, hardly anyone has ever heard of it. Not a recipe for a sales success.

 

I'm surprised to see a fair number of cabinets listed among the membership at KLOV. A testament to the quality of the game more so than the sales success it had in the west, I suspect.

Edited December 4, 2023 by Atariboy

[Ben from Plaion]

3 minutes ago, Thomas Jentzsch said:

That's the number of required sales? Doesn't make sense to me.

Its all so expensive and time consuming - as an example I put 7500EU into costs just for Age Rating each cartridge.

[Atariboy]

Is it actually necessary to get these reviewed, or will Amazon not stock unrated games?

[+karri]

1 hour ago, Ben from Plaion said:

Re-issue 5k

Enhanced 10k

New Game 20k

 

Tiny numbers really. 

That is not even close to the numbers I sell. At most 40 copies sold at retro events. Perhaps that is why I don't get rich by writing games

... back to writing my little Xmas jam game - to be released in 2 weeks ...

 

[Ben from Plaion]

36 minutes ago, Atariboy said:

Is it actually necessary to get these reviewed, or will Amazon not stock unrated games?

Any sales through retail (apart from D2C) channels has to have age ratings.

[Thomas Jentzsch]

If these are the expected sales numbers: no chance.

[chad5200]

3 hours ago, Ben from Plaion said:

Its all so expensive and time consuming - as an example I put 7500EU into costs just for Age Rating each cartridge.

Sounds like the party is over before it even started.

 

Bummer.  So much for being excited about the idea of new homebrew releases.

 

[Ben from Plaion]

1 hour ago, chad5200 said:

Sounds like the party is over before it even started.

 

Bummer.  So much for being excited about the idea of new homebrew releases.

 

There is more games coming, just need to pick them wisely.

[Ben from Plaion]

1 hour ago, Thomas Jentzsch said:

If these are the expected sales numbers: no chance.

No, it depends on the value proposition we present to the consumer. Get that right and the sales will come.

[chad5200]

8 minutes ago, Ben from Plaion said:

There is more games coming, just need to pick them wisely.

Hopefully it is not the equivalent of "Outlaw" and instead something more interesting. 

[MarcinJ]

6 minutes ago, Ben from Plaion said:

There is more games coming, just need to pick them wisely.

I was hoping for 10 in 1 cartridge with  Activision games or homebrew games. If that is not possible than the only option remaining would be reading roms from external media. 
 

BTW, would Champ Game roms work on Atari 2600+ if we ignore cartridge dumping issues? 

[MarcinJ]

4 minutes ago, Ben from Plaion said:

No, it depends on the value proposition we present to the consumer. Get that right and the sales will come.

Re-issue of PacMan, this time done right?

[Ben from Plaion]

2 minutes ago, chad5200 said:

Hopefully it is not the equivalent of "Outlaw" and instead something more interesting. 

And here lies the crux of the matter. ROM Dump on a cartridge of owned IP relatively straight forward but has somewhat a limited appeal. Enhanced editions, Homebrew or brand new/downports of IPs is a different proposition. Its all being looked at and talked about. 

[+karri]

3 minutes ago, Ben from Plaion said:

Enhanced editions, Homebrew or brand new/downports of IPs is a different proposition. Its all being looked at and talked about.

I understand that cost of the cart is an important factor as well. Homebrews using sound chips and ram increase the price compared to just rom and simple banking. Have you been talking about 2600+ carts that would allow to use emulated sound chips and ram in the 2600+ without a need to have the hw on the cart?

 

These carts would only run on the 2600+ of course.

[Ben from Plaion]

8 minutes ago, MarcinJ said:

I was hoping for 10 in 1 cartridge with  Activision games or homebrew games. If that is not possible than the only option remaining would be reading roms from external media. 
 

BTW, would Champ Game roms work on Atari 2600+ if we ignore cartridge dumping issues? 

Its a wait and see on both points.

We are motoring through the current task list for an update. Then I need to look at feasibility of a further update with QOL features like UI with scanlines and savestates. I want get the machine to a best in class machine. Then we can concentrate more on new experiences. The 2600+ is in a good place now 2 weeks after launch. I dont think I'm going anywhere soon and I'm determined today to attempt to satisfy 2600+ owners in the short, medium and long term.

[Ben from Plaion]

4 minutes ago, karri said:

I understand that cost of the cart is an important factor as well. Homebrews using sound chips and ram increase the price compared to just rom and simple banking. Have you been talking about 2600+ carts that would allow to use emulated sound chips and ram in the 2600+ without a need to have the hw on the cart?

 

These carts would only run on the 2600+ of course.

Yeah its so interesting to unlock the RockChips power, my favourite thread on AA at the moment is the hardware thread - I read yours and Blinkys posts with a big smile on my face! However if I was in a meeting that discussed a game that only worked on a 2600+ and not legacy 2600 and 7800 I would likely be against it. It feels against the ethos of the project. But having said that I guess if someone said "Heres DOOM playing on the 2600+ through a cart" I'd likely look into it!

[Thomas Jentzsch]

16 minutes ago, karri said:

These carts would only run on the 2600+ of course.

That is a terrible idea. 👎

[+karri]

7 minutes ago, Ben from Plaion said:

Yeah its so interesting to unlock the RockChips power, my favourite thread on AA at the moment is the hardware thread - I read yours and Blinkys posts with a big smile on my face! However if I was in a meeting that discussed a game that only worked on a 2600+ and not legacy 2600 and 7800 I would likely be against it. It feels against the ethos of the project. But having said that I guess if someone said "Heres DOOM playing on the 2600+ through a cart" I'd likely look into it!

Ok. I fully understand your point. So far all my mini-games use only TIA sounds just to allow them to work on a stock 7800 without fancy flash carts. But in order to create enjoyable games you need ram and a decent sound chip. Something like 512k rom, 32k ram and 3 channels sounds plus percussions would be nice. But of course everything needs to be emulated as well in order to run it on the 2600+.

 

1 minute ago, Thomas Jentzsch said:

That is a terrible idea. 👎

Agreed. Sorry for bringing it up.

 

[Thomas Jentzsch]

53 minutes ago, MarcinJ said:

BTW, would Champ Game roms work on Atari 2600+ if we ignore cartridge dumping issues? 

Sure, as long as they work in Stella too.