Mr. Run and Jump & Berzerk enhanced PAL!!??

[xkenx]

It seems that Mr. Run and Jump in EU stores is the NTSC version. Tested it on both NTSC/PAL Atari 2600. Colors are definitely off on PAL Atari 2600. I also have Berzrk enhanced, haven't tested it yet. Bought them on Amazon Germany. The boxes have the German age rating and the game description is in 5 languages, as EU PAL games normally have.

Edited December 26, 2023 by xkenx

[Sean_1970]

Not surprised. I mean we’re in the glorious world of HD, so such distinctions shouldn’t matter anymore, right?

[xkenx]

This is the original Atari 2600 hardware. On Atari 2600+ it probably dosen't matter, since it is an emulator. This just a heads up for people with an original PAL 2600 console.

Edited December 26, 2023 by xkenx

[xkenx]

28 minutes ago, Sean_1970 said:

Not surprised. I mean we’re in the glorious world of HD, so such distinctions shouldn’t matter anymore, right?

If you use an original Atari 2600, the colors will be wrong using a

NTSC game on a PAL console

Edited December 26, 2023 by xkenx

[Sean_1970]

30 minutes ago, xkenx said:

If you use an original Atari 2600, the colors will be wrong using a

NTSC game on a PAL console

36 minutes ago, xkenx said:

This is the original Atari 2600 hardware. On Atari 2600+ it probably dosen't matter, since it is an emulator. This just a heads up for people in the EU with an original PAL 2600 console.

Definitely good to flag it. I’m sure they didn’t consider it cost-effective to produce a PAL cart.

[+Philsan]

Nowadays you can make a single NTSC/PAL60 cart and change TV standard from menu (eg Draconian) or difficulty switch (Thrust).

[DEANJIMMY]

1 hour ago, xkenx said:

If you use an original Atari 2600, the colors will be wrong using a

NTSC game on a PAL console

The new cartridges are NTSC, this has been reported in this forum weeks ago.

You can contact @Ben from Plaion , maybe he still offers a swap.

[JetmanUK]

I have a an old woody and the new 2600 Plus, also Berzerk Enhanced and Mr Run and Jump. 

 

I was aware from a previous post that the new carts are NTSC, but as I primarily use the Plus I'm not really that bothered.

 

However, thinking about it, if the PAL versions of these games are good conversions, not slower or have a smaller screen then ideally these games plus all future new carts would be preferable in PAL format.

 

Alternatively if any PAL versions of new games are inferior then I'd rather take better quality ahead of legacy compatibility. 

 

It's so weird to be talking about this issue in 2023. 🤣 It was a problem that had long gone away, and to be fair is a non issue if you only use the new Plus console. 

 

Does anyone know what the PAL versions of Berzerk Enhanced and Mr Run and Jump are like?

[ShiftLock]

On 12/27/2023 at 5:40 AM, JetmanUK said:

Does anyone know what the PAL versions of Berzerk Enhanced and Mr Run and Jump are like?

I have been playing both Mr. Run and Jump and Berzerk enhanced on my original PAL 2600 Jr as well as on the 2600+ and the only differences I see are in the colours. This is the same with the 10 in 1 and the 4 in 1 carts.

[+Philsan]

According to Berzerk Enhanced coder, he made NTSC, PAL50 and PAL60 versions of the game.

Obviously nowadays for people who use real PAL hardware, PAL60 is the best option (speed like NTSC and correct colors - and very easy to program BTW).

 

[boggis the cat]

7 hours ago, Philsan said:

Obviously nowadays for people who use real PAL hardware, PAL60 is the best option (speed like NTSC and correct colors - and very easy to program BTW).

I thought that the main clock rates were different between the NTSC and PAL systems?

 

They are for the 8-bit computers.

[Dionoid]

On 12/28/2023 at 8:43 PM, Philsan said:

According to Berzerk Enhanced coder, he made NTSC, PAL50 and PAL60 versions of the game.

Obviously nowadays for people who use real PAL hardware, PAL60 is the best option (speed like NTSC and correct colors - and very easy to program BTW).

If you want to play a PAL cartridge on both the original hardware and the 2600+, then PAL50 is the best option, because the 2600+ doesn't correctly detect PAL60 cartridges. The 2600+ assumes they are NTSC and displays the wrong colors.

Also, if you have an old PAL CRT television like mine, which doesn't support 60Hz, then PAL50 is the only option

Edited December 30, 2023 by Dionoid

[Dionoid]

On 12/26/2023 at 4:59 PM, DEANJIMMY said:

The new cartridges are NTSC, this has been reported in this forum weeks ago.

You can contact @Ben from Plaion , maybe he still offers a swap.

I did indeed contact @Ben from Plaion and he arranged to swap my NTSC Berzerk Enhanced + Mr. Run and Jump carts for PAL 50Hz versions. That means that I can now play these carts both on my Atari 2600+ and on my original 6-switch Woodgrain PAL Atari VCS (connected to a 50Hz-only PAL TV) in the correct colors!

 

And the cool thing is that they even put a little "P" sticker on the back of the cartridges, just like Atari did back in the days to indicate P(AL) versions; I love these kind of details!

 

    

Edited April 28 by Dionoid

[JetmanUK]

40 minutes ago, Dionoid said:

I did indeed contact @Ben from Plaion and he arranged to swap my NTSC Berzerk Enhanced + Mr. Run and Jump carts for PAL 50Hz versions. That means that I can now play these carts both on my Atari 2600+ and on my original 6-switch Woodgrain PAL Atari VCS (connected to a 50Hz-only PAL TV) in the correct colors!

 

And the cool thing is that they even put a little "P" sticker on the back of the cartridges, just like Atari did back in the days to indicate P(AL) versions; I love these kind of details!

 

    

I'd always prefer PAL60, but 50hz is ok if the following two questions are answered with a yes:

 

Are they full speed?

 

Are they full screen/same screen size as the NTSC version?

 

There will still be colour differences and PAL60 is always preferred, but ok if so. 

 

PAL is the worst thing about the 2600/the era of gaming until modern TVs. NTSC on the 2600 Plus, awesome. 🤟🏻

Edited April 28 by JetmanUK

[Dionoid]

2 hours ago, JetmanUK said:

I'd always prefer PAL60, but 50hz is ok if the following two questions are answered with a yes:

 

Are they full speed?

 

Are they full screen/same screen size as the NTSC version?

 

There will still be colour differences and PAL60 is always preferred, but ok if so. 

 

PAL is the worst thing about the 2600/the era of gaming until modern TVs. NTSC on the 2600 Plus, awesome. 🤟🏻

I personally prefer PAL (50Hz) for a number of reasons:

• Traditionally, all European and Australian 2600 PAL cartridges were 50Hz. Only since 2600 homebrews, PAL 60 (a.k.a. quasi-PAL) became popular because of the easy conversion from NTSC. Note that the PAL version of Circus Convoy (the recent game by David Crane and Garry Kitchen) is using the traditional 50Hz PAL standard, just like all Atari and Activision PAL games in the '70s and '80s.
• PAL (50Hz) cartridges are recognized automatically by the Atari 2600+ (and Stella) and display in the correct colors. PAL-60 homebrew cartridges however will display wrong colors on the 2600+.
• I'm using an old PAL CRT TV that doesn't support 60Hz, but only 50Hz. I'm aware that the more recent PAL CRT TVs do support both 50Hz and 60Hz, but I like the retro feeling of my old TV

The game speed, colors and screen-size of PAL vs NTSC 2600 games will be (slightly) different in most cases. For instance, in the PAL version of Mr. Run and Jump, the main character moves slightly slower (50 pixels per second instead of 60 pixels per second), but the animation is very smooth and I personally hardly notice the difference. The music in the title screen is exactly at the same tempo as the NTSC version, so that is accounted for in the code.

Edited April 28 by Dionoid

[MrChickenz]

On 12/29/2023 at 7:42 PM, Dionoid said:

If you want to play a PAL cartridge on both the original hardware and the 2600+, then PAL50 is the best option, because the 2600+ doesn't correctly detect PAL60 cartridges. The 2600+ assumes they are NTSC and displays the wrong colors.

Also, if you have an old PAL CRT television like mine, which doesn't support 60Hz, then PAL50 is the only option

So just for my understanding. I’m NTSC. As far as the Atari 2600+ is concerned, it plays both NTSC and PAL correctly? With the latest update are there differences in color and speed with original games? And until recently I wasn’t aware of PAL50 and PAL60 is this only newer games or was there always 50/60?

 

Ha just as I hit submit your post popped up!

Edited April 28 by MrChickenz

[DEANJIMMY]

I used to be a fan of PAL60 on original HW but since I only play on the 2600+ now, NTSC is the best and PAL 2nd choice.

 

PAL60 gives wrong colors but I am happy that they run at full speed.

 

As many of my problematic PAL homebrews are kicked into PAL mode by its MD5 hash, wouldn't there a posibility to detect PAL60 by their MD5, and start NTSC mode with a PAL palette?

I can provide MD5 hashes for quite a few PAL60 homebrews.

[Dionoid]

1 hour ago, DEANJIMMY said:

I used to be a fan of PAL60 on original HW but since I only play on the 2600+ now, NTSC is the best and PAL 2nd choice.

4 hours ago, JetmanUK said:

PAL is the worst thing about the 2600/the era of gaming until modern TVs. NTSC on the 2600 Plus, awesome. 🤟🏻

If you mainly play on the 2600+, then I understand that the NTSC version of the game is basically all you want, as it plays exactly like the developer intended (correct speed, colors, etc.)

1 hour ago, DEANJIMMY said:

As many of my problematic PAL homebrews are kicked into PAL mode by its MD5 hash, wouldn't there a posibility to detect PAL60 by their MD5, and start NTSC mode with a PAL palette?

I know that Stella uses property files which allows you to preset specific settings based on the MD5 hash of the game. But I'm not sure if the version of Stella which runs on the 2600+ supports these, see the discussion here: https://forums.atariage.com/topic/358935-2600-homebrewers-stellas-properties/

 

Edited April 28 by Dionoid

[DEANJIMMY]

2 hours ago, Dionoid said:

 

I know that Stella uses property files which allows you to preset specific settings based on the MD5 hash of the game. But I'm not sure if the version of Stella which runs on the 2600+ supports these, see the discussion here: https://forums.atariage.com/topic/358935-2600-homebrewers-stellas-properties/

 

Maybe that is possible now. The experimental load bypasses retrocharch for video output, retroarch settings are gone, so maybe?!