Who here thinks the Atari 400 mini was a good idea ?

[Matt_B]

11 minutes ago, Master Phruby said:

What are you talking about four cartridge ports? The 8-bit computer line only had one cartridge port that accepted all of them. It doesn't need to accept 5200 carts since it isn't a 5200.

If you're talking about the 400 Mini, it can play 5200 games. The two systems are so similar that most emulators do both, because only a small amount of extra work is required, so it makes sense for any recreation of one to also do the other.

Well, at least until we're talking about adding cartridge ports, at any rate.

[Forrest]

I like the 400 Mini because of the increased visibility of  the 8 bit Atari software to those who never owned the original. Picking the 400 case was a good choice, because many who owned the original mostly used it for game playing. The membrane keyboard was terrible to type on, and you had to expand the internal memory if you wanted to use disk drives.

 

If the 400 Mini sells well, we might get a full size 800XL or 130XE in the future.

[+MrFish]

8 hours ago, Zonie said:

The 5200 was the biggest disappointment when it was released. We all saw it for what it was. An expensive 400 with terrible controllers and all the computer features removed. What was the point?

Generally all true; but what the 5200 did do was up the ante on game quality, which ended up as a big benefit for the Atari 8-bit Computers. They (Atari & 3rd parties) did a great job making all the 5200 game software really top-notch (because it was the console successor to the 2600). It's not that games wouldn't have kept improving for the 8-bit computers on their own, over time, but they got a solid kick in the ass from the 5200 entering the market.

 

[Zonie]

4 hours ago, Giles N said:

You mean as to choice of emulation-console aesthetics to represent the 8-bit family? That it looks cool, like a Lamborghini really, just that its a console, not like a gruesomely yellowed, age-tarnished toy-home computer,  found in someones abandoned and gaping black-windowed basement or garage 150 years from now…

But that’s just, of course, my own personal taste for looks… nothing else.

 

If its supposed to represent something more historical; I honestly don’t know. Probably a fairly good choice.
But I don’t care overly much about that part. As it is now, it looks fairly gruesome - and I’ll choose to spin it, like ‘whatever, it does what it does’.

 

I’ll run and buy once I know that its emulations are solid. 
I’ll give it warmhearted recommendations if I run into Atari-fans on my way through life etc… if, but only if, it’ll perform emulation of high quality, on all systems represented.

 

As I play, I’ll just look away from The Thing laying there on my table, keep my eyes firmly fixed on the game and screen, and in strained forgetfulness, not let them stray to glimpse the unspeakable resting there inches away from my hands…

 

But, hey, thats just me ya know…

 

If you love it: feast your eyes!

OK, the point was to tease us with the eye candy Video System X and then just put 1979 tech in the sleek oversized case with a cool auto tv/game switch, slick controllers and an oversized case to store the controllers. I said it back in the day when It came out and still do. Why not just just make a vader-esque 400 with more Ram, less shielding and reduced price and use that? The XEGS was the right idea too late (and a terrible color). We all already had extra controllers that were compatible with it anyway.

 

 

Edited January 22 by Zonie

[Giles N]

1 hour ago, Zonie said:

OK, the point was to tease us with the eye candy Video System X and then just put 1979 tech in the sleek oversized case with a cool auto tv/game switch, slick controllers and an oversized case to store the controllers. I said it back in the day when It came out and still do. Why not just just make a vader-esque 400 with more Ram, less shielding and reduced price and use that? The XEGS was the right idea too late (and a terrible color). We all already had extra controllers that were compatible with it anyway.

 

 

Or they could’ve made the 5200 come with expansion ports for extra RAM and keyboard, then made controllers like Wico’s Command Control, and made it easy to get hold of 2600-game-adapters.

Then people could buy the successor console for a reasonsble price, and with good looks to it, - and have users just buy the necessary expansions as they saw fit.

 

- - -

 

As it is now, the unit must stand out from 2600+, and make it onvious its a symbol of 8-bit family. I really don’t know which of these are the visually most widely recognizable.

 

I’m satisfied they get on with making it easy to play Atari-retro games for new retro-gamers, casuals, or those who just don’t have the money to collect every retro-console and computer out there.

 

This one is the natural follow-up system to the 2600+.
 

I must honestly say, it’s looks are … probably iconic to those who experienced it back then, but in my eyes, very office-like, screaming 70ies much more than the shell of the 5200, which is oversized, but looks very inviting, sleek, clean-cut and stylish in design. 
The 400 (in design)reminds of s world where paper printers personally hate me, office computers that cannot play ‘worm’ in monochrom, which mostly uses cassettes for software etc.

 

Of course, its what it does that really matter. Hopefully Atari will make sure the systems it emulates run on a very high standard/high quality emulation software.

 

That’s whats really matter.

 

Edited January 22 by Giles N

[CartoonDan]

I think it is a great idea. It seems like most people in the US have forgotten about the Atari 8-bit computers but I remember them fondly. The 400 was my first computer but we sold it and upgraded to the 800 after a year with the 400. 

[Zonie]

9 hours ago, CartoonDan said:

I think it is a great idea. It seems like most people in the US have forgotten about the Atari 8-bit computers but I remember them fondly. The 400 was my first computer but we sold it and upgraded to the 800 after a year with the 400. 

I wasn't able to afford one back in the day so I had a Vic20. I was fortunate to get one in 1987 for $10 and have had it ever since. My favorite console/computer and I recently got an 800 but the 400 is the one I always wanted.

 

[ClausB]

Great idea! I think the Atari 8-bits' potential was stunted by the cheap c64's success, so it's good to see a mass market homage to the 400. My first Atari was an 8K 400 in 1980. Loved it!

[zzip]

On 1/21/2024 at 5:33 AM, ledzep said:

I know I'm missing something because I'm not big into physical emulation (meaning buying/building a droid specifically to emulate an old console vs. software on a PC), but what's so fucking hard about including a cartridge port that can read the actual cartridges and play them?  I mean, if it's emulating (for example) an Atari 400, doesn't the emulation have to include that part of the motherboard anyway?  It must be emulating the rest of it, the POKEY sound or ANTIC chip or whatever, I would think that the cartridge port code would come "free" with the rest of the emulation of the hardware.

Every emulator I ever used expects a pre-dumped rom file.   Perhaps if there was an emulator designed to interface directly with cartridge-reader hardware,  most or all of the issues could be avoided.   The game code simply sends the bankswitch triggers when required, it has no concept of what bankswitch method is being used, it just knows when to send the right instructions.  And if the cart has an onboard co-processor like DPC, then it should just work if the emulation is reasonably accurate.

 

The problem for something like 2600+  is it is using an emulator that expects ROM files,  and it has a separate program in charge of dumping the carts.   If it's a simple cart with no bankswitching and no extra coprocessor, that's simple enough.   But if there's bankswitching it needs to figure out the method used to get a correct dump.   Maybe the best way to figure-out the method is keep a database of all known titles, a hash to identify them when inserted, and what bank-switching scheme they use.   But that doesn't address coprocessors.   The chip in Pitfall II for instance has its own code that can't easily be dumped.

 

So that's why it's challenging for 2600+ and why it needs firmware updates to support more games.

[zzip]

15 hours ago, Zonie said:

OK, the point was to tease us with the eye candy Video System X and then just put 1979 tech in the sleek oversized case with a cool auto tv/game switch, slick controllers and an oversized case to store the controllers. I said it back in the day when It came out and still do. Why not just just make a vader-esque 400 with more Ram, less shielding and reduced price and use that?

I think the industry didn't know what a next-Gen console should be like.  The Odyssey 2 came out with a membrane keyboard, and perhaps that influenced the 400, but then along comes Intellivision with its keypad controllers, and Atari decided "we should do that instead".   Atari was following what others were doing instead of leading,  and it isn't like the designs they copied were great ideas to begin with.

 

My feeling is a full keyboard is not a good idea for a console because it doesn't work well in a living-room, multi-player setup.   So I don't think the 400 would have worked well as a 2600 replacement.

[zzip]

On 1/19/2024 at 6:36 PM, Giles N said:

I mean, if you sell an MP3 player, the player-device manufscturer cannot know whether any mp3 made from cds, would be from your own or from cds borrowed from a friend..?

 

Right but legally that falls under the provision that users were allowed to make backup copies for their own use.   The industry had to be dragged kicking and screaming to MP3s,  they first tried to introduce DRM-protected digital formats that everybody hated.   Nowadays it seems like they'd much rather have you use a streaming service where they get paid for every play, then have users have their own digital media collections.

[+LS650]

My first computer was a 400... so I think it's a great idea.

[ledzep]

15 hours ago, zzip said:

Every emulator I ever used expects a pre-dumped rom file.   Perhaps if there was an emulator designed to interface directly with cartridge-reader hardware,  most or all of the issues could be avoided.   The game code simply sends the bankswitch triggers when required, it has no concept of what bankswitch method is being used, it just knows when to send the right instructions.  And if the cart has an onboard co-processor like DPC, then it should just work if the emulation is reasonably accurate.

 

I think that would be a smart move, a "secret" option that only the cool kids know about.  Leave the functionality in there and let it be known that if you want to void the warranty, there's a way to add the correct cartridge reader (like the Flashback 2 has) if you can find the parts and know how to solder or whatever.  Most people won't, some will, some others will offer the conversion service for a fee.  Something like this 400 Mini would be extra cool because it would need to handle at least 2 cartridge readers, yes?  The 8-bit computer version and the 5200 version?  I think that would generate more demand for the consoles.

 

I'm comparing to things like the Tempest game for the Jaguar that had spinner code added in so that if someone was in the mood he could adapt a spinner to the controller.  Or those older Playstations that were designed to accept other OSs like Linux.  Most people don't care, they don't want to risk bricking their machine by hacking it up.  But a few would take the challenge and wind up with a better system.

[zzip]

7 hours ago, ledzep said:

Something like this 400 Mini would be extra cool because it would need to handle at least 2 cartridge readers, yes?  The 8-bit computer version and the 5200 version?  I think that would generate more demand for the consoles

The 400 mini doesn't have cart slots,  it's not large enough.   They say it's half the size of real 400, but to me it looks like it's barely larger than a CX40 joystick!   No way you can fit the wide 5200 carts in that!

 

I'm not sure if having cart slots are a huge deal to Atari 8bit users..  Most games were release on floppy and cassettes.

[+MrFish]

Well, while we're talking about fantasies... I think it'd be cool if it included an SD-card holder that was shaped like a mini (1/2-size) Atari brown cart and plugged into a mock cartridge port.

 

[ledzep]

3 hours ago, zzip said:

The 400 mini doesn't have cart slots,  it's not large enough.   They say it's half the size of real 400, but to me it looks like it's barely larger than a CX40 joystick!   No way you can fit the wide 5200 carts in that!

 

I'm not sure if having cart slots are a huge deal to Atari 8bit users..  Most games were release on floppy and cassettes.

 

Ya, I know it's tiny.  I'm saying if they had the plan from the beginning to add the capability for the carts then maybe they make the Mini around the size of the Flashback 2 so if you want to add a cartridge slot, you can.  Or add an external one that could plug into a SIO port... which would also be a secret mod that the emulator would recognize.

 

You could say the same thing about the 2600, most people today probably play 2600 games on emulators so they'd just want SD card support.  It's for the collector who wants the "complete" version of the new console, however many there might be.  And it's not like it would cost anything, just have the code be there and have the physical hooks on the motherboard be there.  The rest is up to the modder.  I'm just thinking about something that would make some potential buyers say "Wait, you can do that?  I need to get one of those those!".  Maybe nobody does it.  But you can't tell me you haven't seen videos of people who mod various devices to do extra things because they figured out that it's possible if you have the time and can get certain parts.

[Havok69]

It's so tiny! 2" x 6" x 5.25"

 

I love it, but not at that price point. I'll buy one used for $50 when they reach that point. I have a real 400 to get me by in the meantime.

[zzip]

57 minutes ago, ledzep said:

 

Ya, I know it's tiny.  I'm saying if they had the plan from the beginning to add the capability for the carts then maybe they make the Mini around the size of the Flashback 2 so if you want to add a cartridge slot, you can.  Or add an external one that could plug into a SIO port... which would also be a secret mod that the emulator would recognize.

 

You could say the same thing about the 2600, most people today probably play 2600 games on emulators so they'd just want SD card support.  It's for the collector who wants the "complete" version of the new console, however many there might be.  And it's not like it would cost anything, just have the code be there and have the physical hooks on the motherboard be there.  The rest is up to the modder.  I'm just thinking about something that would make some potential buyers say "Wait, you can do that?  I need to get one of those those!".  Maybe nobody does it.  But you can't tell me you haven't seen videos of people who mod various devices to do extra things because they figured out that it's possible if you have the time and can get certain parts.

There is talk that they might do a Maxi, like they've done for other systems like the C64.    The Maxi matches the a full size model, and perhaps would have a working cart slot?   but there's no model that has both an A8 and 5200 cart slot,  I suppose they could place the 5200 cart slot where the PBI slot would be on a 600XL/800XL if they use one of those models as the basis for a Maxi.

[Jetboot Jack]

15 hours ago, zzip said:

There is talk that they might do a Maxi, like they've done for other systems like the C64.    The Maxi matches the a full size model, and perhaps would have a working cart slot?   but there's no model that has both an A8 and 5200 cart slot,  I suppose they could place the 5200 cart slot where the PBI slot would be on a 600XL/800XL if they use one of those models as the basis for a Maxi.

The C64 Maxi does not have a working cartridge port (or any other authentic C64 ports) - so I would not hold my breath for that functionality IF a The400 Maxi ever appears - the A500 Maxi is still not here...

 

sTeVE

[zzip]

1 hour ago, Jetboot Jack said:

The C64 Maxi does not have a working cartridge port (or any other authentic C64 ports) - so I would not hold my breath for that functionality IF a The400 Maxi ever appears - the A500 Maxi is still not here...

 

sTeVE

Good to know, if the C64 doesn't have one, then I doubt Atari would.   

[sundance8]

The 400 Mini is already on a roll, with over 2K of Amazon pre-orders already, in four countries alone ... US, Canada, UK, and Germany.  That excludes all the pre-orders placed with Atari direct, who are also selling it to US customers.  It likewise excludes all the pre-orders in other European markets, together with Australia.  Given the release date is still over 2 months away, these are impressive numbers.  Hehe, I'm not gonna miss out, I've pre-ordered two units for myself.  This is gonna be a hit 

[sundance8]

4 hours ago, Jetboot Jack said:

The C64 Maxi does not have a working cartridge port (or any other authentic C64 ports) - so I would not hold my breath for that functionality IF a The400 Maxi ever appears - the A500 Maxi is still not here...

 

sTeVE

That's correct.

 

As with the Atari 400 Mini and other Retro Games products, it's all USB and HDMI ... with support for USB game loading, USB external keyboards, USB joysticks and controllers, and even a USB mouse (with the latest firmware update, and USB-loaded C64 software that supports mouse functionality).

 

The C64 Maxi is an impressive product ... I own one myself.  In terms of its dimensions, it's a full-size 1:1 replica of the original bread-bin C64.  Even better, it has a built-in, fully functional, working keyboard.

 

EDIT:  The C64 Mini and Maxi, also both support a 3.5" USB external floppy disk drive.  That's if you want to add a little bit of extra nostalgia, to hear the satisfying, mechanical grunts and grinds (and bear through the extended load times) as a game loads.  Retro Recipes has a related YT video and blog.

 

The A500 Maxi is scheduled for release in Q4 this year, to coincide with the Christmas shopping season ... I'll be sure to grab one.

 

Edited January 24 by sundance8

[iamscuba2]

On 1/16/2024 at 2:02 PM, CapitanClassic said:

No, the 400 was a good choice. Since it is a mini console less than half the size, going with the 400 might even work for people unaware of the membrane PC. Being the first Atari PC means that next Christmas they can release an 800 mini followed by an 800 XL/XE mini if it sells well enough. If people really love their plastic, perhaps also an Atari 410 fake tape deck and 1050 with sd-card reader slot (and fake sd-card micro adapter to 5.25 sleeve). 

 

Agree with @zzip that a fake membrane keyboard is probably easier to manufacture than a bumpy keyboard. Probably makes getting it out of the plastic mold injectors is easier.

 

I like that MULE is going to be available , but cannot think of many other 4-player games on the system. (George of the Jungle, Thank God It’s Friday, … ?)

you can use this in the meantime... https://www.bandcds.co.uk/usb/cassette-tape-usb-drives/

[iamscuba2]

6 minutes ago, iamscuba2 said:

you can use this in the meantime... https://www.bandcds.co.uk/usb/cassette-tape-usb-drives/

and this... https://hackaday.com/2011/05/05/tiny-atari-810-disk-drive-upgrade/

[Sean_1970]

I vote yes. Cart collecting for the 2600+ has been fun, but I don’t think I’d be up for more of that and I have a curated collection of 8-bit computer ROMs from when I got nostalgic for my 800XL days in high school, so I’m down for an easy way to play those games. I’m assuming I’ll be able to hook up a joystick and USB keyboard at the same time for games that use keys like Star Raiders?

 

I saw all the debate about the form factor and the 400 seems the right choice just because it was first and has a distinctive look. I had a friend who had one and can remember the pain of typing in a program from a magazine for an hour, saving to tape only for the game to turn out to be crap/broken. That is definitely NOT the experience I’m looking to recapture - more playing Gremlins or Goonies 😁👍