BassGuitari Posted January 18 Share Posted January 18 21 hours ago, zzip said: And I'm sure there's people who would rather listen to 10 minutes of cassette screeching noises, for that authentic experience, than have it instant-load. LEAVE ME ALONE. 😜 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+GoldLeader Posted January 18 Share Posted January 18 (edited) 22 hours ago, zzip said: And I'm sure there's people who would rather listen to 10 minutes of cassette screeching noises, for that authentic experience, than have it instant-load. Unlike most normal people, I like noise, so, to me that would be a nice extreme choice in background music... But you know maybe make it selectable,...Give us a choice of: rock, disco, metal, noise, country, epic classical, goth, pop, rap, synthwave, grindcore, video game music, death metal, J-pop, Jazz, K-pop, industrial, techno, alternative, acoustic, etc. Edited January 18 by GoldLeader Edit: I had no idea BassGuitari was quoting the same thing while I was slowly writing this! Great minds think alike. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+pboland Posted January 18 Share Posted January 18 22 hours ago, Giles N said: As to sheer aesthetics of the unit: no Atari 8-bit family system beats the 5200: they could’ve used the unused extra slot for connection to PC-keyboard, use the 4 port unit layout, and include 1x 8-bit family joystick (the one the sell with 400 mini), + 1 vastly(!!!) improved analogue stick for the 5200 (looking like a blend of the Command Control and the Gamestation-stick or something) I like the idea of using the 5200 looking shell. They could also have it hinge up to reveal a keypad. That way the keypad would not need to be included on any analogue controller they might make. Just a thought. 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
82-T/A Posted January 18 Share Posted January 18 I'm actually fairly excited... I think the biggest problem is that like everything else in my life, I just don't have time. Really, I think if I eliminated all the time I spend on forums, I might have time... but with work, family, constantly going to school (on my 3rd Masters like a dumb-ass), like 4 different hobbies I want to pursue... I have to prioritize... which means family (and doing things with my daughter). So really, I'll buy it, and it will sit on a shelf, which is what my 2600+ has basically done since I got it. I want to support Atari, and eventually want to play these things... just don't have time. Looking forward to retirement... lol. 20 years from now! 3 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gedalya Posted January 18 Share Posted January 18 I've always wanted to get into Atari computers and the 400 mini strikes me as an affordable and fun way to do so. 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Giles N Posted January 19 Share Posted January 19 (edited) 2 hours ago, 82-T/A said: Really, I think if I eliminated all the time I spend on forums, I might have time... 😅HaHaaaHaaHaa …😂 … oh- that one hurt (…at least me) Edited January 19 by Giles N Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Giles N Posted January 19 Share Posted January 19 9 hours ago, zzip said: Sure a system where you plug in your media as proof of purchase and receive a legit rom to your account would be great. So why is it legal to transfer stuff across units on other systems using the same account? Is it because it is digitally registered upon buying? I could envision Atari making an Atari 2600+ Handheld: it is pretty much an Atari 2600+ … but you guessed it, its a handheld with huge, top quality screen and ‘Lynx-like’ joypad-grip, just much more slimmer and lighter. Or looking like an Evercade EXP in looks. It comes with a docking bay. The Docking bay and console unit has a serial number that must fit/align for it to work. When in the docking bay, you can insert your 2600/7800 carts, and they’ll be loaded up to your 2600+ handheld. A ‘strange’ docking bay won’t upload, and same with a ‘foreign’ console put in a docking bay. All this because: then you could play alot more 2600/7800 titles than Atari own as of today. The docking station could do other things as well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Giles N Posted January 19 Share Posted January 19 4 hours ago, GoldLeader said: metal, noise, Yeah, man, give me some ‘screeching spectrum loading noize-metal’! Must be the next big thing! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
littleman jack Posted January 19 Share Posted January 19 I love it. I had an 800 back in the day and still do. But I love the look of the 400 as well. And I love that this one can go into a modern tv and has ports to play more games. It will be more fun using this than using a "modern" looking computer to play the games. Almost like the original, but with a modern tv. And as stated earlier, if it supports all the 8-bit games and systems, then why not use one of the originals for the shell? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zzip Posted January 19 Share Posted January 19 19 hours ago, Giles N said: So why is it legal to transfer stuff across units on other systems using the same account? Is it because it is digitally registered upon buying? I think it comes down to who owns the rights to the roms. Atari could set up a system that facilitates Atari's games. But if you had a system where you inserted say a Parker Bros game cart licensed from an arcade mfg, then you may not be legally able to add that cart to your account and transfer it to other devices. That's the kind of system MP3.com set up, you insert any CD, the digital songs get added added to your account. The music industry objected. However Amazon has a similar system where you can buy a physical CD and access the MP3's in your account the same day. The difference I think is because Amazon has the right to selll those media files, MP3.com didn't? 2 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zzip Posted January 19 Share Posted January 19 On 1/18/2024 at 2:41 PM, BassGuitari said: LEAVE ME ALONE. 😜 It won't be authentic unless it has detectors that sense if you stepped on a floorboard too hard in the same room, and then the virtual vibrations cause the cassette to error out on the very last sector, causing you to have to start over... oh sorry, the bad Atari 410 flashbacks kicked in 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hwlngmad Posted January 19 Share Posted January 19 Throwing my two cents in, I think the 400 Mini is a good idea. Now, we will have to see how well it is executed and how much modding, if any, can be done to it to help enhance it a bit further. But, personally, I think it is pretty cool and hopefully it can lead to a full size number a la THEC64 and THEA500. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt_B Posted January 19 Share Posted January 19 2 hours ago, zzip said: I think it comes down to who owns the rights to the roms. Atari could set up a system that facilitates Atari's games. But if you had a system where you inserted say a Parker Bros game cart licensed from an arcade mfg, then you may not be legally able to add that cart to your account and transfer it to other devices. That's the kind of system MP3.com set up, you insert any CD, the digital songs get added added to your account. The music industry objected. However Amazon has a similar system where you can buy a physical CD and access the MP3's in your account the same day. The difference I think is because Amazon has the right to selll those media files, MP3.com didn't? The main problem for MP3.com was that they didn't own the rights to any of the music! Also, inserting a CD wasn't considered viable as proof of ownership, because you could then pass that CD on to someone else who could then claim the songs on their account, ad infinitum. That was still back in the days when the music industry still thought that they could kill music sharing and streaming. Nowadays, they'd probably just settle for a cut of the revenue like they did with YouTube. Anyone who tries to do a similar thing with game cartridges would have the same problem though. Unless you're going to sign up every rights holder and pay a residual for every upload, the idea would be a non-starter. 2 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Giles N Posted January 19 Share Posted January 19 3 hours ago, zzip said: But if you had a system where you inserted say a Parker Bros game cart licensed from an arcade mfg, then you may not be legally able to add that cart to your account and transfer it to other devices. But you could have one system legally playing a rom created from an inserted legal information-carrying cart or card? Could they have created a handheld with a dock with cart-slot, which transferred the rom created by the dumper, if the dock and handheld was locked together by code (I’m not debating whether this would sell well, just whether it would be legal)? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Giles N Posted January 19 Share Posted January 19 57 minutes ago, Matt_B said: Anyone who tries to do a similar thing with game cartridges would have the same problem though. Unless you're going to sign up every rights holder and pay a residual for every upload, the idea would be a non-starter. What if the account holding/storing the roms is bound to a name snd code and max five devices which can utilize it? I mean, if you sell an MP3 player, the player-device manufscturer cannot know whether any mp3 made from cds, would be from your own or from cds borrowed from a friend..? Of course if the account is of the nature where one could export it everywhere and to everyone, that would be more obviously problematic… Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Master Phruby Posted January 19 Share Posted January 19 The Atari 400 was the first computer I ever owned. It came with the Educators pack that included the 410, basic and States & Capitals. I learned how to program on the thing. It set me on my career track as a software developer. About three months after getting it, we upgraded the keyboard and upped the memory to 48k. 5 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Giles N Posted January 19 Share Posted January 19 (edited) 16 minutes ago, Master Phruby said: the Educators pack that included the 410, basic and States & Capitals. …a classic! It simply begs for a Recharged version!! - - - Atari Basic Recharged… make your OWN game from SCRATCH!! Edited January 19 by Giles N 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BIGHMW Posted January 20 Share Posted January 20 On 1/18/2024 at 6:32 AM, zzip said: Sure a system where you plug in your media as proof of purchase and receive a legit rom to your account would be great. But I'm not sure it's legally feasible. MP3.com tried something like this with CDs, got sued and lost NO NO NO as a skinhead/hardcore/underground/independent music artist and FREE-THINKER I'm not going to have my entire gaming/music/movie/porn collection tethered to some "account" subject to some "oversite committee" to where they can control what I can and cannot have in it, that is a rather bullshit thing for possible corporate censorship and/or stripping of "offending" content if "they" find it to be so, too much a an area in which I DO NOT/WILL NOT deal with, leave it the way it is!!! Currently, once you download it it is yours forever, offline!!! Anything else like suggesting the above would be like welcoming the New World Order (no I'm not taking about Hulk Hogan, the late Scott Hall & "Big Sexy" Kevin Nash) to come in, then they'll start to implant microchips in our bodies for Uncle Sam and Big Brother to track us down too, and there'll even be some "verbal morality statute" straight outta the movie Demolition Man, NO!!! 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Noelio Posted January 20 Share Posted January 20 After thinking about it a while, I think it's a great idea. Hopefully the emulator is good etc. If anyone considers doing a full size machine, I vote for a mini/micro ITX/ATX capable 1450XLD. Barebones would be amazing with dual 5 1/4 bays for Bluray, audio breakout boxes etc. Hey, I can dream! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MarquisDeSang Posted January 20 Share Posted January 20 (edited) I have seen the Atari 400 in pictures, but never checked what it was all about. I know nothing about that thing... and that is why I pre-ordered mine on Amzon Canada. I know everything there is to know about all consoles, arcade, computers and all games, but not about this one strangely. For me, that thing just appeared in my timeline/reality/simulation. Its refreshing to find new stuff after 45 years of gaming. And honestly, who can resist more stuff from Atari? Not me. Edited January 20 by MarquisDeSang 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ledzep Posted January 21 Share Posted January 21 On 1/17/2024 at 1:12 PM, Matt_B said: I thought the lesson from the 2600+ was that cartridge ports add a lot to the price but aren't that useful on an emulation machine because: You've got to dump the game first before you can play it. Not everything in every cartridge can be dumped via the cartridge port either. We've all got a complete ROMset lying around somewhere anyway. Sideloading games via flash storage has worked fine on all the RGL machines up to this point too. I know I'm missing something because I'm not big into physical emulation (meaning buying/building a droid specifically to emulate an old console vs. software on a PC), but what's so fucking hard about including a cartridge port that can read the actual cartridges and play them? I mean, if it's emulating (for example) an Atari 400, doesn't the emulation have to include that part of the motherboard anyway? It must be emulating the rest of it, the POKEY sound or ANTIC chip or whatever, I would think that the cartridge port code would come "free" with the rest of the emulation of the hardware. I'm sure I'm confusing myself with the Atari Flashback 2 that was more or less an exact functional duplicate of the old 2600 that didn't actually include a cartridge port but was designed to accept one. Couldn't a 400 Mini (or a 2600+) do the same thing? If you don't want it, don't use/add it, but I don't understand how you can say you're emulating something but then not emulate a key part of it. I assume there would be no way to physically add 9-pin ports to this thing, much less an SIO connector. I'm not even saying I am demanding such functionality, but I would welcome it. And, again, I don't understand how if you're emulating the rest of the hardware that you'd skip some of the capability. Even if it's not offered, at least have the possibility on the board for it. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Giles N Posted January 21 Share Posted January 21 1 hour ago, ledzep said: hard about including a cartridge port that can read the actual cartridges and play them? I mean, if it's emulating (for example) an Atari 400, doesn't the emulation have to include that part of the motherboard anyway? I think its that including cartridge ports (‘dumpers’ when used on emulation-consoles), would cost more. Since the 400Mini emulates all of the Atari 8-bit family computers, including the combo computer/console-units and also the 5200, it would end having like 3-5 different cartridge ports (dumpers), and even then, what about all the games released on cassette or disk? Witt the 2600+, the one thing that could make it seem reasonable (for a low-priced system vs a high-quality fpga-retro feinschmecker-thing), was that the cartridge slot for the 2600 (being the most fameous system) and the 7800 had the same shape, so with one cartridge dumper, you could get quite a lot done. Guess a 400Mini with 4 cartridge dumpers would easily cost $200 or more, look akward, and probably need a long time of developement and tweeking of the emulation-softwares both for the line-up of dumpers and the console running the emulators. So, it wouid be possible, but would cost alot more money and time, and the number of things that could go wrong, to later have to be mended, would be much higher. They could perhaps have included 2 cartridge slots there, one for the 5200, and one for the most-used 8-bit system cart-slot type (shape). It wouid then probably cost $150-170, and be released Q3 or Q4 this year. Just my own guesstimate. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zonie Posted January 21 Share Posted January 21 On 1/16/2024 at 12:07 PM, JPF997 said: "Most unique design" that honor goes to the 1200, now that is a beauty 😘 Blahh... Yeah, nicer color scheme and all, but not Iconic. On 1/16/2024 at 11:42 AM, zzip said: Where it matters is It can emulate any Atari 8-bit system from the 5200 to 128K 130XE. I think the reason the 400 design was chosen because it's the most unique design in the 8-bit line, so it's a little more iconic I guess. And the keyboard isn't functional, so being membrane doesn't matter. Exactly. People don't understand this. Should call it the 400+. On 1/16/2024 at 1:01 PM, Flyindrew said: My vote for "most unique design" goes to the XEGS Yep, for sure, especially the pastels and the angles. What a PITA that PCB was probably to make back then. On 1/16/2024 at 2:33 PM, roots.genoa said: It's also THE FIRST ONE. They also went for the first version of the 2600 for the 2600+, right? BIngo. Yes. What the 5200 should have been. Honestly, the 5200 should have been an upgraded 400 with more RAM and perhaps black and silver. On 1/16/2024 at 3:31 PM, GoldLeader said: No matter which one they picked someone would be complaining. If they'd gone with for example, the 800, I think it had a more commanding presence, but then people would be harping on a non-functional keyboard. Personally I like the 400, but I think an Atari 5200 would be neato. And I'm sure they liked that one right up until they remembered the joysticks... Best choice for nonfunctional fake keyboard. On 1/16/2024 at 3:59 PM, xboxiso said: I thought it was a good enough idea to pre-order one which I just did this afternoon : ). Can't wait to receive it... Me too. On 1/17/2024 at 8:09 AM, Greg2600 said: It should have been an 800. I would have been far more inclined to buy one. Why? The fake keyboard would have been dumb. On 1/17/2024 at 2:36 PM, Matt_B said: Given that many of the best Atari 8-bit only came on cassette tape and floppy disk, it'd be even more pointless in this case. Still, yes, you're always going to get people who want these things for the touchy-feely experience. Right. On 1/17/2024 at 3:20 PM, Giles N said: As to sheer aesthetics of the unit: no Atari 8-bit family system beats the 5200: they could’ve used the unused extra slot for connection to PC-keyboard, use the 4 port unit layout, and include 1x 8-bit family joystick (the one the sell with 400 mini), + 1 vastly(!!!) improved analogue stick for the 5200 (looking like a blend of the Command Control and the Gamestation-stick or something) However, if they want to cater to home-computer fans (lots of them in Europe, unacquainted with the American-only 5200), they’d probably miss out alot. Since the thing itself plays everything in Atari 8-bit family, the choice would realistically fall between the most widely remembered or easily recognized home-computer model. I’ll be satisfied if they weed out as much problems, and make it as widely compatible as possible on launch-date. The 5200 was the biggest disappointment when it was released. We all saw it for what it was. An expensive 400 with terrible controllers and all the computer features removed. What was the point? 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Master Phruby Posted January 21 Share Posted January 21 (edited) 8 hours ago, Giles N said: I think its that including cartridge ports (‘dumpers’ when used on emulation-consoles), would cost more. Since the 400Mini emulates all of the Atari 8-bit family computers, including the combo computer/console-units and also the 5200, it would end having like 3-5 different cartridge ports (dumpers), and even then, what about all the games released on cassette or disk? Witt the 2600+, the one thing that could make it seem reasonable (for a low-priced system vs a high-quality fpga-retro feinschmecker-thing), was that the cartridge slot for the 2600 (being the most fameous system) and the 7800 had the same shape, so with one cartridge dumper, you could get quite a lot done. Guess a 400Mini with 4 cartridge dumpers would easily cost $200 or more, look akward, and probably need a long time of developement and tweeking of the emulation-softwares both for the line-up of dumpers and the console running the emulators. So, it wouid be possible, but would cost alot more money and time, and the number of things that could go wrong, to later have to be mended, would be much higher. They could perhaps have included 2 cartridge slots there, one for the 5200, and one for the most-used 8-bit system cart-slot type (shape). It wouid then probably cost $150-170, and be released Q3 or Q4 this year. Just my own guesstimate. What are you talking about four cartridge ports? The 8-bit computer line only had one cartridge port that accepted all of them. It doesn't need to accept 5200 carts since it isn't a 5200. Edited January 21 by Master Phruby Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Giles N Posted January 21 Share Posted January 21 (edited) 1 hour ago, Zonie said: What was the point? You mean as to choice of emulation-console aesthetics to represent the 8-bit family? That it looks cool, like a Lamborghini really, just that its a console, not like a gruesomely yellowed, age-tarnished toy-home computer, found in someones abandoned and gaping black-windowed basement or garage 150 years from now… But that’s just, of course, my own personal taste for looks… nothing else. If its supposed to represent something more historical; I honestly don’t know. Probably a fairly good choice. But I don’t care overly much about that part. As it is now, it looks fairly gruesome - and I’ll choose to spin it, like ‘whatever, it does what it does’. I’ll run and buy once I know that its emulations are solid. I’ll give it warmhearted recommendations if I run into Atari-fans on my way through life etc… if, but only if, it’ll perform emulation of high quality, on all systems represented. As I play, I’ll just look away from The Thing laying there on my table, keep my eyes firmly fixed on the game and screen, and in strained forgetfulness, not let them stray to glimpse the unspeakable resting there inches away from my hands… But, hey, thats just me ya know… If you love it: feast your eyes! Edited January 21 by Giles N 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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