Why the anti-5200 sentiment from the 8-bit community, we need some new titles (or at least conversions)!!!

[christo930]

3 hours ago, BIGHMW said:

Independent free-thinking original content creators don't have any chance anymore of getting their channels even off the ground, let alone get noticed by iHeartRadio or 102.7 KIIS-FM or Cindy Margolis!!!

Youtube loses billions of Dollars.  It's not really about money.  Very, very few people make any real money (like, quit your full time job money) on youtube, especially in retrogaming.  It takes time to build a decent following.

[baktra]

I believe that not that much love for the system then and now doesn't need to be emotional at all.

 

From a pragmatist's and developer's perspective, living in EU, today.

 

1. The consoles are rare, their cost is high, getting a real machine is tough.

2. No PAL. Not so much of a problem these days with modern display devices that can handle both PAL/NTSC

3. Small user base in general. Developing a paid or free homebrew software will not reach a broad audience. Digital releases require the customer to have a universal cartridge. Physical releases are surprisingly doable, these day easier than in the past. This creates the traditional chicken and the egg problem.

4. Competition from the 8-bit computer line is fierce. Bigger user base, upgrades and mods, disk/tape/cart choice, keyboard for advanced games. Not so much distinguishes the console from the computer (analog controllers, two fire buttons, keypad do not seem enough). Bank switching cartridges are fortunately possible for huge programs

5. Cross-platform development tools are equal and convenient for both product lines. that is a plus. If given some thought in advance, software for both platforms can be compiled from one source.

[ImmyChan]

I have to imagine that anti-5200 sentiment has to come from the same place that a lot of anti anything sentiment comes from: hearsay. All the biggest YouTubers say that the 5200 sucks so people don't take the time to look into it; in reality most consoles that supposedly "suck" have enough redeeming games available that you wouldn't be disappointed if you owned one during the 90s

[Albert]

13 hours ago, christo930 said:

Youtube loses billions of Dollars.

I'm skeptical of this claim, do you have a recent article to support that?  In 2023, YouTube had gross revenue of $31.5 billion.  It doesn't look like they've released net revenue numbers, but I'd be amazed if they aren't making a handsome profit on YT, especially with the volume of ads they are running these days. 

 

https://www.businessofapps.com/data/youtube-statistics/

 

 ..Al

[+Gemintronic]

I think you need interested people with expertise to create easier tools.  You then need a community of game devs around that tool.  You then need people willing to try new, original games to keep the ball rolling.

 

I don't think anti-5200 sentiment is a thing.  It just hasn't reached the energy level needed.

 

 

[BIGHMW]

1 hour ago, Albert said:

I'm skeptical of this claim, do you have a recent article to support that?  In 2023, YouTube had gross revenue of $31.5 billion.  It doesn't look like they've released net revenue numbers, but I'd be amazed if they aren't making a handsome profit on YT, especially with the volume of ads they are running these days. 

 

https://www.businessofapps.com/data/youtube-statistics/

 

 ..Al

Yeah but also, they have a major problem (that they caused and are not willing to fix) with suppressing the lesser-known "smaller" channels (like all 3 of mine) to the point that they don't get noticed enough to warrant people to not put out content for them anymore, like what happened with me, because YouTube's infamous algorithm systems ARE RIGGED towards the corporate content while choking out the independent free-thinking original content creators like myself who want to get noticed or at least get a halfway descent following, in which for me less than 200 subscribers with less than 200 views of any of my videos on either of my 3 channels (BIGHMW TV, The Atari Report, and the Ray Jackson YouTube channel) just will not encourage me (or others like me) to continue to put out content knowing nobody will (be allowed to because of the rigged algorithms systems) view it.

 

I have good-quality content, it's just the numbers do not show a proper view of how good it really is. Judge for yourself, I'm ready to reacquire new filming equipment to put out content on all 3 of my channels, it's just Google has got to put the "you" back into "YouTube" instead of giving into (and promoting) all of this corporate bullshit.

[+Zeptari]

On 3/14/2024 at 11:11 AM, phuzaxeman said:

On 3/14/2024 at 11:05 AM, space_dungeon said:

 

River Raid, Centipede, Defender, and Galaxian are excellent reasons to play the 5200 over the 8bit too.

Can someone clue me in the difference between the 5200 console and computer versions? Are they that different?

[jhd]

19 hours ago, BIGHMW said:

Independent free-thinking original content creators don't have any chance anymore of getting their channels even off the ground, let alone get noticed by iHeartRadio or 102.7 KIIS-FM or Cindy Margolis!!!

 

Call me a cynic, but rather than complain about (or fight) the existing social order I look for ways to become part of it. 

 

Have you ever approached either organization (or any other firms in the entertainment industry) about actually working for them? I would expect that your experience in producing videos would count for something. 

 

Some people dedicate themselves to protesting government policies; I became a civil servant and implemented the policies. Guess which of us will be retiring sooner?   

Edited March 16 by jhd

[BIGHMW]

4 minutes ago, jhd said:

 

Call me a cynic, but rather than complain about (or fight) the existing social order I look for ways to become part of it. 

 

Have you ever approached either organization (or any other firms in the entertainment industry) about actually working for them? I would expect that your experience in producing videos would count for something. 

 

Some people dedicate themselves to protesting government policies; I became a civil servant and implemented the policies. Guess which of us will be retiring sooner?   

Hey thank you for thinking of me, and my experience in creating content.

 

I have been in the entertainment business since 1994 when I first hooked up with my management Len Enders back in the days when he was still frontman/keyboards with local Port Townsend/Port Hadlock-based "heavy gravel" band Circle Of Fear. We have been best friends since then, and as for Cindy Margolis, I happened to have the good fortune if having gone to high school with her from 1983-84 and I am very proud of her for her great career she had after graduating from the notorious Erik and Joan Erikson Center, in which you would be lucky to survive from, let along graduate like we did, it was part of the Los Angeles mental health system BITD and chances of making yourself into something coming out of there were slim and none (and slim left town deacdes ago), and that's why I look up to her because she "made it" in spite of those odds. I myself continue to push the bar she set for me (and us) because of her, hoping she'll notice me to the point where she can refer me to talent agents, because otherwise for me we are pretty much hermetically-sealed here in sparsely-populated, densely-rural, heavily isolated Port Townsend, Jefferson County, Washington.

[BIGHMW]

....and here is the great Len Enders from his days with Circle Of Fear, ENJOY!!!

 

 

[+MrFish]

On 3/15/2024 at 3:54 PM, christo930 said:

Are there analog joysticks for the 8 bit line?

Thankfully, no.

 

On 3/15/2024 at 3:54 PM, christo930 said:

The 5200 brings buttons galore.  There is no shortage of buttons on the controller.

And sometimes no shortage of broken buttons on the controller.

 

[+MrFish]

On 3/13/2024 at 2:13 PM, BIGHMW said:

Don't make ME fall asleep...

Awe... come on Ray; just lay down and rest next to one of these pods for a while.

 

 

[+MrFish]

On 3/14/2024 at 6:18 PM, BIGHMW said:

I just wish someone would port 5200 Tempest to the 8-bit so there’d be no bickering...

Everything should be ported to everything! Imagine the bliss...

 

[bigfriendly]

9 hours ago, Albert said:

I'm skeptical of this claim, do you have a recent article to support that?  In 2023, YouTube had gross revenue of $31.5 billion.  It doesn't look like they've released net revenue numbers, but I'd be amazed if they aren't making a handsome profit on YT, especially with the volume of ads they are running these days. 

 

https://www.businessofapps.com/data/youtube-statistics/

 

 ..Al

It so hard imagine them not making big profits. Think of all of the channels that aren't monetized but ads still play on them. I guess its always possible that they are bloated with to many employees that are getting paid but not really producing for the company. $31.5 billion? Frankly I'm surprised that it's not higher than that.

Edited March 17 by bigfriendly
added to post

[Jess Ragan]

Look. I like the Atari 5200. I prefer the feel of its games to what's on the ColecoVision... they're just brighter and move more smoothly. But really, I get why people wouldn't want to support the Atari 5200. It wasn't popular in 1982, and it's not popular now, for the same reasons. You can get the benefits of Atari 5200 games from an XL/XE, without the annoyance of floppy analog joysticks. Theoretically, many of those games could be converted to the Atari 5200, but there's just no rational reason to backport these games. There probably won't be a rational reason to backport, until someone whips up a program that converts XL/XE games to the Atari 5200 automatically. (That's a good idea, someone should do that.)

[christo930]

11 hours ago, Albert said:

I'm skeptical of this claim, do you have a recent article to support that?  In 2023, YouTube had gross revenue of $31.5 billion.  It doesn't look like they've released net revenue numbers, but I'd be amazed if they aren't making a handsome profit on YT, especially with the volume of ads they are running these days. 

 

https://www.businessofapps.com/data/youtube-statistics/

 

 ..Al

I read this a couple of days ago, but it might have been out of date.  I know for certain youtube used to claim to lose money. Whether or not that is true, we don't really know because if they have losses, google could be making up for it.

 

But it seems to me youtube has an extremely flawed business model based on massive unrestricted exponential growth of data.  God only knows how many hours of video gets uploaded to youtube 24/7.  Even after accounting for better compression algorithms, the resolution has steadily grown. My tiny channel has a video I uploaded in like 2007 or 2008 that plays instantly if I open the video, which means it's live and not even archived to a cheaper medium that might have delayed availability.   I'm pretty skeptical of their ability to make money running youtube with only advertiser revenue. 

 

This will get infinitely worse if Congress gets off their asses and makes them liable for the damage done to people by scam ads running on google and youtube.  When I occasionally watch TV, I see ads for lawyers, drugs, laundry soap and the like.  On youtube, I get 3 minute ads pimping anti-aging cream, free energy devices, investment scams and so on.  I've never seen this scammy stuff advertised on TV where the FCC has regulatory power.  If they did run these ads, it is likely they would get in a lot of trouble.  Google, Youtube, Facebook, Twitter et al should all be financially liable for any of the losses incurred by people who only saw the ad and only became victimized because youtube was paid to show it to them.  The stuff big tech gets away with is infuriating to me.

 

Plus, ALL of these companies have only existed during a long term money bubble starting in the late 90s. They've known nothing but low interest rates.  The historically low interest rates we have right now, just mildly higher than the last 25 years is already having a big effect.  They've also have only known 2 very short recessions (2001 and 2008) which were immediately met with full scale money printing.  Will they survive a real recession or actually high interest rates? Who knows.  But I think it's going to be a real test.  Atari, Coleco, GCE, Mattell etc were dealing with a fed funds rate of over 20% during a recession.  These rates weren't that long ago.

[christo930]

9 hours ago, BIGHMW said:

eah but also, they have a major problem (that they caused and are not willing to fix) with suppressing the lesser-known "smaller" channels (like all 3 of mine) to the point that they don't get noticed enough to warrant people to not put out content for them anymore, like what happened with me, because YouTube's infamous algorithm systems ARE RIGGED towards the corporate content while choking out the independent free-thinking original content creators like myself who want to get noticed or at least get a halfway descent following,

They don't want the small channels if they can help it.  I cannot tell you how many times I've searched for videos on youtube that are impossible to find.  Like I'll search new homebrew atari 2600 and there will be nothing.  Then I come here, and someone has an embedded new youtube video showing a new homebrew.   Their search function used to be great. It sucks now. It only wants you to watch videos it recommends to you.  I often have to use yandex to find something I'm looking for with Google. Because even google sucks now.

 

Really, it's the same as developing games for the 5200. You ain't gonna get rich doing it. You have to do it because of your love for the system and to add to the community. 

 

I've been thinking about an audio only (Podcast, I guess) youtube channel or one with just my voice and game footage. There is just so much bad retro content on youtube. Thousands of videos with 2 minutes of really crappy video quality launching an emulator and then not knowing how to play the game.  I am way too camera shy to do videos with my face in them (plus I value my privacy).  If I do decide to do it, I will be under no illusions that youtube will want to promote it or that I will make any money from it. 

[+x=usr(1536)]

On 3/15/2024 at 9:40 PM, BIGHMW said:

Hall & Oates

I realise that I'm about to go off-topic here, but since Hall & Oates were mentioned, it seemed like fair game.  Take a look at the following photo:

 

 

What I've been trying to figure out for years is what's going on here.  I mean, are you about to go for a night on the rockin' town with Hall & Oates in the Fiero?  Because, if so, that car's only a two-seater.  About the only place a third person could fit (assuming no significant amputations) would be in the cargo area behind the engine, but that really only has room for a couple of golf bags.

 

Will Hall & Oates drive around in their Fiero, and you follow them from your own?  Is the Fiero in the picture they're lounging on yours, and they'll follow you around in a vehicle of their choice?  Do you lay across their laps, curled up in the foetal position while they take turns driving?  If it's a manual, that's gonna be even more awkward.

 

One of my great regrets in life is that I never entered a Pontiac dealership to find out while Pontiac was still in business and badge-engineering cars.  Now they're gone, and there is simply no remaining font of knowledge on the subject.  My sincere hope is that someone reading this thread may one day be able to bring both enlightenment and closure to this subject.

 

My apologies for the thread hijack.  Please, carry on without further interruption.

 

(BTW: I actually like Fieros - particularly the early snub-nosed cars like in the photo. It's a shame GM never gave them the development they deserved.)

[christo930]

1 hour ago, x=usr(1536) said:

(BTW: I actually like Fieros - particularly the early snub-nosed cars like in the photo. It's a shame GM never gave them the development they deserved.)

I liked the last one they made, the 88 Fiero.  I always like the way the Fiero looked. When equipped with the V6, wasn't a bad car.  Sadly, I cannot fit into a Fiero. I am simply too tall for it.  I squeezed myself into one in the early 90s and barely fit and with my hair on the ceiling.  Very uncomfortable car.  Being so low to the ground didn't help either.  I also liked the later Plymouth Laser.  I had one of the early ones.

 

1 hour ago, x=usr(1536) said:

Will Hall & Oates drive around in their Fiero, and you follow them from your own?

 

I never got this kind of thing.  I hold most celebrities in the lowest possible regard.  If Hall and Oats want to talk about music, I'll shut up and listen. But on any other subject, including cars, their opinions are just noise in my ear.  I've never purchased anything in my life because of a celebrity endorsement, but I have gone out of my way to not buy something endorsed by a particularly obnoxious celebrity or even because I find a company's commercials extremely annoying.  It has always been, for as long as I can remember, a big mystery to me why anyone anywhere cares about what some man who plays kids games for money, a person who makes believe for money or a musician thinks on any topic outside of their extremely narrow expertise.  Since almost all of them are supremely obnoxious and narcissistic people, it's like nails on a chalkboard to me ears or eyes when they say something.  I just cannot imagine why anyone would take anything any of these people say or do seriously.

[BIGHMW]

2 hours ago, x=usr(1536) said:

My apologies for the thread hijack.  Please, carry on without further interruption.

 

(BTW: I actually like Fieros - particularly the early snub-nosed cars like in the photo. It's a shame GM never gave them the development they deserved.)

No apologies needed you’re fine after all this is somewhat of an 80s forum in a way it’s just eschewed more towards 80s gaming and culture too more than anything else.

 

BTW, I also liked the Fieros too, but mainly the hatchback version (I believe that was a GT model also) put in the V6 and automatic and I’m good to go otherwise it’s the Knight Rider Trans Am FTW!!! My late mother owned a fully loaded 1979 Trans Am with the gold graphics package and a 6.6 Litre engine and automatic and we were SO BADASS at that time. She owned her from brand new, she even bought me my first ride, my 1999 New Beetle GLS, also from brand new, fully loaded, about a year before she passed away from brain cancer, and I even helped drive her into Seattle for treatment when she needed it too.

 

My 1999 would suffer a rear end collision in December 2016 and with the lawsuit money I got from that crash I got my 2002 Beetle (also fully loaded also a GLS) in January 2017, she had 123,000 miles on her, she now has 305,000+ on her as I speak.

Edited March 17 by BIGHMW

[+x=usr(1536)]

1 hour ago, christo930 said:

I liked the last one they made, the 88 Fiero.

It's funny - I go back-and-forth on those.  They're a good-looking car, to be sure, but then I start thinking of the snubnose model and wander off in that direction.  First love syndrome, I guess 

 

All I can say is that I never cared for the beak nose that was put on the original body.  Yeah, it's a Pontiac styling element, but the way that it lengthened the front overhang was never appealing.  Funnily enough, pretty much the same treatment on the '88 cars works much better.

1 hour ago, christo930 said:

I always like the way the Fiero looked. When equipped with the V6, wasn't a bad car.

V6, 5-speed, some mild brake and suspension mods, and you've more or less got the car that should have been in production as the performance model to start with.  A 4-cylinder would be fine, but they really should have put the Quad-4 in it instead of the 2.5 Iron Duke.  Either way, the only way the car was ultimately put into production was by convincing upper management that it would raise the company's CAFE numbers.  Understandable that the initial cars were positioned as being fun with good fuel economy.

 

Having said that, I have driven an '88 with a Buick 3800SC in it.  Talk about a sleeper; it surprised more than a couple of folks at stoplights.  Wish I'd bought it while it was still available.

1 hour ago, christo930 said:

Sadly, I cannot fit into a Fiero. I am simply too tall for it.  I squeezed myself into one in the early 90s and barely fit and with my hair on the ceiling.  Very uncomfortable car.  Being so low to the ground didn't help either.  I also liked the later Plymouth Laser.  I had one of the early ones.

The Laser was an interesting car; the styling was always preferable (in my eyes) to the Mitsubishi Eclipse it was based on.  It wasn't like it was massively different, but there were just enough tweaks to it to give it the edge in my book.  Also liked the Dodge Daytona - Chrysler was doing some excellent work at the time with knowing how and where to parts-bin a car (not a bad thing in my book) in order to come up with something with some appeal to it.

 

1 hour ago, christo930 said:

I never got this kind of thing.  I hold most celebrities in the lowest possible regard.  If Hall and Oats want to talk about music, I'll shut up and listen. But on any other subject, including cars, their opinions are just noise in my ear.  I've never purchased anything in my life because of a celebrity endorsement, but I have gone out of my way to not buy something endorsed by a particularly obnoxious celebrity or even because I find a company's commercials extremely annoying.  It has always been, for as long as I can remember, a big mystery to me why anyone anywhere cares about what some man who plays kids games for money, a person who makes believe for money or a musician thinks on any topic outside of their extremely narrow expertise.  Since almost all of them are supremely obnoxious and narcissistic people, it's like nails on a chalkboard to me ears or eyes when they say something.  I just cannot imagine why anyone would take anything any of these people say or do seriously.

 

If someone like Jay Leno, Tim Allen, Jon Bon Jovi, etc. is talking about cars, I'll listen - but that's because they're car guys.  It's what they do because it's something they genuinely love doing, and I can absolutely relate to that.  Totally agreed on the shilling aspect, though.  Stick <insert celebrity here> behind the wheel of whatever for glamour purposes and I just. Don't. Care.  Hit the back button, change the channel, whatever, just get me away from it.

[Neogeoman]

Thank goodness the 5200 community has Ryan, love his games and look forward to each new release. Ratcatcher, Magical Fairy Force, Intellidiscs and Rob n Banks....all EXCELLENT games. The 5200 is the system that started it all for me way back in 83. Still love it to this day though it doesn't nearly get the support the 3 other Atari systems do or even the Colecovision and Intellivision for that matter so though the releases are few and far between it makes me appreciate them even more. Thanks to Ryan and all the other supporting the 5200 and keeping it alive

[BIGHMW]

38 minutes ago, Neogeoman said:

Thank goodness the 5200 community has Ryan, love his games and look forward to each new release. Ratcatcher, Magical Fairy Force, Intellidiscs and Rob n Banks....all EXCELLENT games. The 5200 is the system that started it all for me way back in 83. Still love it to this day though it doesn't nearly get the support the 3 other Atari systems do or even the Colecovision and Intellivision for that matter so though the releases are few and far between it makes me appreciate them even more. Thanks to Ryan and all the other supporting the 5200 and keeping it alive

Myself also in 1983, got it as my first Atari unit for my 17th birthday (May 19th, 1983), I’m on my second one, a 2-port with a 4-port BIOS in her, my first was an original 4-port with that automatic switch box, in which BITD was so badass because you never had to go to the TV to switch it from the TV to the unit, that then though, meant I couldn’t get the soon-to-be released 2600 adapter unless I got the mod done on her, in which I didn’t do.

 

But yes the 5200 also brought me to Atari, in fact I know we love to call her Big Sexy but she also might as well be called “Rodney”, because somehow she gets no respect even to this day except from all of us loyalists like me and @Ryan Witmer who have done a tremendous service for our small but fiercely dedicated community.

[christo930]

3 hours ago, x=usr(1536) said:

they really should have put the Quad-4 in it instead of the 2.5 Iron Duke. 

I had an Olds Calais with the Quad 4.  It was a great engine.  It felt like driving a turbo because all the power was at higher RPM.  It would accelerate at an OK rate and then all of the suden it would start building real power. I never had any head gasket failure with it either.  But I think the Iron Duke was the only 4 cylinder available when the Fiero launched.  I also owned a Citation X11 (I really loved that car) with a 2.8 and the 4 speed.  It was one of the most comfortable cars I ever owned.  Even as a young guy in the very late 80s early 90s when I owned it, I loved the hatchback. I wish they still made hatchbacks. Best cars ever.

 

Speaking of Mitsubishi, the Conquest is another one I would have liked to have owned.  One of them had like 250hp out of a 4 cylinder. Plus they were great looking.  I almost bought a used one, but my friend talked me out of it. He said they were famous for blowing the timing belt (curse the timing belt!!) and had an interference engine (evil combination of timing belt and interference engine)

 

 

Jay Lenno I would probably listen to, but not because he is a late night talk host, but because he is an automotive hobbyist.  Plus he has a whole team of master mechanics who are available to him to ask questions, plus he works with them, presumably every day.

[+discotronic]

8 hours ago, x=usr(1536) said:

What I've been trying to figure out for years is what's going on here.  I mean, are you about to go for a night on the rockin' town with Hall & Oates in the Fiero?  Because, if so, that car's only a two-seater.  About the only place a third person could fit (assuming no significant amputations) would be in the cargo area behind the engine, but that really only has room for a couple of golf bags.

A friend in high school had one with the 5 speed and V6. One addition to the car made it possible to transport 3 people. Sunroof. We did that all the time. The smallest person, besides driver, had to take the middle. It was basically someone sitting awkwardly on the lap of the person in the passenger seat with added head room with the sunroof open. Winter wasn't fun but a ride is a ride. We didn't care if it was in the back of a truck either. Bundle up:)