How long until the FPGA fad runs out?

[donjn]

Just bought a Mister FPGA and it was the best retro purchase I've ever made.
For $500 I got an all in one device and for that kind of accuracy with a CRT for all the systems I wanted it would cost me easily over $1,000.
 

The scanline choices are amazing, the crisp sound and graphics.

And I get CRT-like response time on my nice HDMI monitor for everything I want (Atari 8-bit, 2600, 5200, 7800, C64, Arcade, NES, SNES, Genesis, Neo Geo, etc, etc)

 

Plus I got this retro-looking keyboard that gives the FEEL of Atari and C64.
Nice mechanical clicking, backlit and sits on my lap while I'm in a recliner.
Add the VCS classic joystick (which is the only joystick Ive ever used that actually feels like response time is better) and Im all set.

 

 

Edited June 7 by donjn

[M-S]

Yes, we know about it, you bumped this thread with this exact same post two weeks ago.

You do realize that this attitude of MiSTer owners never shutting up about the fact that they own it is the reason why a lot of people don't like it?

[John Stamos Mullet]

3 hours ago, donjn said:

For $500 I got an all in one device and for that kind of accuracy with a CRT for all the systems I wanted it would cost me easily over $1,000.

 

[+Stephen]

4 hours ago, M-S said:

Yes, we know about it, you bumped this thread with this exact same post two weeks ago.

You do realize that this attitude of MiSTer owners never shutting up about the fact that they own it is the reason why a lot of people don't like it?

Let me tell you about this amazing diet - it's called veganism.  Can I extoll you all its virtues?

[+5-11under]

5 hours ago, M-S said:

Yes, we know about it, you bumped this thread with this exact same post two weeks ago.

You do realize that this attitude of MiSTer owners never shutting up about the fact that they own it is the reason why a lot of people don't like it?

Is that referring to @donjn? Actually, I appreciated the pictures of the keyboard. It looks like something I might be interested in.

 

I own a MiSTer FPGA and I think it's awesome! Apparently others love it, too. Thare are several valid reasons one could discount the MiSTer FPGA, but to discount it because some people love it so much seems silly.

[+Sauron]

Q: How do you know when someone (is a vegan/runs Arch Linux/owns a MiSTer)? 

A: Don't worry, they'll be sure to tell you.

 

[Austin]

25 minutes ago, 5-11under said:

Is that referring to @donjn? Actually, I appreciated the pictures of the keyboard. It looks like something I might be interested in.

 

I own a MiSTer FPGA and I think it's awesome! Apparently others love it, too. Thare are several valid reasons one could discount the MiSTer FPGA, but to discount it because some people love it so much seems silly.

100%. Some things are touted positively, constantly, for a good reason, and in this case, that reason is that the MiSTer is really damn good at what it does, and it keeps getting better. It's a shame prices on it have gone up over the years, but it's still an excellent value given the core accuracy and how expensive all other real console hardware has gone up in the same period of time this project has been around.

Edited June 8 by Austin

[phoenixdownita]

5 minutes ago, Sauron said:

Q: How do you know when someone (is a vegan/runs Arch Linux/owns a MiSTer)? 

A: Don't worry, they'll be sure to tell you.

 

Wrt MiSTer this is an fpga thread, isn’t that expected?

 

I amassed 35+ consoles (a few duplicates, like 3 ps2 not sure why), XRGB mini, retro think 2x and 5x (the 5x seems to take care of my needs now) and hw mod to Svideo/rgb when needed (8 bits and 16 bits). On the fpga side the Analogue SuperNt and MegaSg (then I stopped) and of course a MiSTer.

The last 2 weeks I have been dedicating the same amount of play time to an original and temperamental Colecovision (I am finally getting half good at Mr. Do) and to MiSTer for the Atari ST core (I decided not to collect vintage computers).

 

I did not spend 500 on MiSTer, I think less than 300 but that was before COVID, left it abandoned for couple years or more, restarted looking at it in the last 4mo.

 

I don’t feel guilty of either the originals or the fpgas … the Analogues are not being used much but no 16bits is getting attention lately (occasional use of ngcd due to Samurai Shodown RPG English translation).

[NE146]

Yeah it's funny but regarding the Retrotink, I find I barely use it.  I have the 5X Pro handy, but with the 8-16 bit consoles, turns out I prefer to play the original consoles on a CRT. However, IF I wanted to play their games on a modern display, there's FPGA to the rescue with either the Analogue consoles or the MiSTer of course, both of which do an amazing job with hdmi out. So it seemed the only place I ended up using the Retrotink was for N64/Saturn/PSX generation consoles (if i wanted to play them on a modern display that is), BUT then now with MiSTer being able to play all 3 out via HDMI, it got kind of moot again.  

Edited June 8 by NE146

[roots.genoa]

I've said it a million times already, but I lack the discipline of being able to pick one game if I have access to a full ROM set, so I prefer to buy games (digitally or physically), because it gives me the motivation to actually beat them. Because of that, I'm not really interested in software emulation and MISTer, but Analogue systems are perfect for me. That being said, I sometimes enjoy the jailbreak to be able to try homebrew demos.

[phoenixdownita]

4 hours ago, roots.genoa said:

I've said it a million times already, but I lack the discipline of being able to pick one game if I have access to a full ROM set, so I prefer to buy games (digitally or physically), because it gives me the motivation to actually beat them. Because of that, I'm not really interested in software emulation and MISTer, but Analogue systems are perfect for me. That being said, I sometimes enjoy the jailbreak to be able to try homebrew demos.

Having flashcarts for basically all cart systems it's a false issue for me. I don't have ODEs yet mostly because the official ones are expensive and China ones unknown if can be fw update, thankfully I can play burns so not a biggie.

 

But yes, at time the Netflix effect is real ... vegie-browsing instead of playing, but that's the same over a stack of burns.

 

So told many have relatively short libraries so not such a big issue. Recently I just check the top N or hidden gems from a random site and play stuff that I haven't tried yet. For sure finishing a game is not something I do very often but that has nothing to do with too many choices, my Xbox series X and Switch sit mostly unused even if I have a dozen games each or less and I explicitly bought them.

Edited June 8 by phoenixdownita

[NE146]

I USED to suffer from game paralysis before, for years and years! (e.g. having a spindle of hundreds of burned PSX games, and playing none of it). But I learned the discipline of getting out of that mindset and now I mostly have no problems having an entire library of games available on a whim. It's simply choosing your game and playing it  no matter how long it takes. I'm on month 3 of playing SNES Earthbound for the first time ever, for example and unless the game starts getting really boring or agitating I'm not going to play another SNES game until it's done. I'll play other things on other consoles (5200 Berzerk, 2600 Tutankham, Genesis - Granada, Iphone - Candy Crush 😛  Or whatever. But for the most part, it's one game per console and stick with it.  Next SNES game I'm going to probably do is Legend of the Mystical Ninja but that's going to be a ways away.

 

 

[phoenixdownita]

14 hours ago, NE146 said:

Yeah it's funny but regarding the Retrotink, I find I barely use it.  I have the 5X Pro handy, but with the 8-16 bit consoles, turns out I prefer to play the original consoles on a CRT. However, IF I wanted to play their games on a modern display, there's FPGA to the rescue with either the Analogue consoles or the MiSTer of course, both of which do an amazing job with hdmi out. So it seemed the only place I ended up using the Retrotink was for N64/Saturn/PSX generation consoles (if i wanted to play them on a modern display that is), BUT then now with MiSTer being able to play all 3 out via HDMI, it got kind of moot again.  

No CRT for me, I have a very old and dingy 13” LX something (apparently a Sears rebranded Sharp) from the late 80s that up to a decade ago I used for SMS and 7800 light gun games … I opened it up a week ago to see if it’s jungle chip is amenable to RGB mod but it’s too old and I can’t find even basic docs on the pair.

 

Nowadays it is basically all via the 5x, aside the rare console whose composite or Svideo mod is accepted by my old Vizio lcd, but all new tv sets in the US come hdmi only so … 5x it is.

(I don’t default to it all the time because I don’t like to keep it plugged 24/7 so it’s just faster for me to plug direct, funny thing my 7800 is unstable on that tv via Svideo [loses sync every 5 or 10 secs] but looks fantastic not so on composite but it is stable, if used for 2600 games Svideo shows no sync issue instead at least for the games I tried … guess TIA has a more compliant signal than Maria)

Edited June 8 by phoenixdownita

[+GoldLeader]

I'm probably just weird,   I'm actually a fan of modern LCDs and Retro Tinks (Just been betting into the 5X more recently)...Just keep in mind you have to tweek them (half the fun sometimes).  I usually start by turning up the Contrast and Brightness and then they come alive.

 

I still have a big heavy CRT downstairs (being stored) which would require friends and favors to move,  or maybe I'd just pop it onto my skateboard and wheel it into location,  and just do some custom temporary set-up downstairs...Naaaaaw,  TBH just the thought makes my back ache.

[donjn]

On 6/7/2024 at 2:06 PM, M-S said:

Yes, we know about it, you bumped this thread with this exact same post two weeks ago.

You do realize that this attitude of MiSTer owners never shutting up about the fact that they own it is the reason why a lot of people don't like it?

Yes, and the ANTI-Mister people have even gotten worse!
To unfairly lump me in with all the Mister fanboys who are aggressive and think they are all holy is completely off the mark.

I didn't realize that I already posted this info here mentioning some of the details of what costs would come to.
I will say looking back at your response to that, some of your information is flat out wrong.

 

Quote

 

I'm not sure about  the C64 stuff, but there's no way that an AV-modded 2600 would cost $200 and a CRT monitor $300. You either looked at some scalpers' price or exagerated them, and even if they cost that much, it's a single device, an emulation box, against multiple legacy devices and accessories with collectible value. It doesn't replace them and never will, these cores aren't more accurate than software emulation and don't play all games, it's like comparing a swiss knife against a complete toolbox.

If you like the MiSTeR more, good for you, in a few months it's going to cost like $100 dollars, perhaps even I could buy one, but it's not going to be a replacement for anything.

 

I dont even know where to start...you hand-cherry picked the Atari 2600, and a CRT monitor and left out my pricing for an Atari 800 and C64, which was priced correct.
 

So lets take a look at what you cherry picked:

• Find me an AV modded Atari 2600 for under $200. And yes, the one on Ebay does not include 2600 controllers. The one for $90 includes a cheap controller and the other two I consider "worth purchasing" are around $150 and have no controllers.
• Regarding a CRT yes you can find a VHS combo CRT for $150. But are you really going to pick the worst of the worst to fit your argument? Anyone who is into this stuff knows that a Commodore monitor or Trinitron, JVC etc will only do. Sure you may find one locally on Craigslist if you get super lucky and wait months and months for one to pop up. If you call $300 "scalping" for a good condition Commodore monitor you are not aware of the value of these things now.
• You said regarding the Mister FPGA: "these cores aren't more accurate than software emulation and don't play all games". This 100% false. Yes, there are some emulators that are basically 99.9% accurate and you cant beat that, but some aren't. And almost all emulators have some sort of input lag I don't like. And please don't tell me to adjust my TV or monitor to "game mode"
• Calling the Mister FPGA an "emulation box" is really insulting. You are basically putting it in the same category as an Atgames box or a raspberry PI. You should do more research.
• Let me know when Mister is $100. That comment has already aged like milk in two weeks. There is already reports now that there are some big delays ahead.
• Finally, I was you 6 months ago. Hesitant on the price, etc. I loved and still love the convenience of emulation and love old hardware.

 

Edited June 10 by donjn

[donjn]

On 6/7/2024 at 7:47 PM, 5-11under said:

Is that referring to @donjn? Actually, I appreciated the pictures of the keyboard. It looks like something I might be interested in.

 

I own a MiSTer FPGA and I think it's awesome! Apparently others love it, too. Thare are several valid reasons one could discount the MiSTer FPGA, but to discount it because some people love it so much seems silly.

Yes I posted the keyboard because I thought it might be good for other users. I want "bragging" or anything.
Some people have full setups in their garage with awesome CRTs and multiple classic computers.

I would trade my Mister for that setup. But this is the best I can do because I cant do that.

[donjn]

On 6/7/2024 at 7:56 PM, Sauron said:

Q: How do you know when someone (is a vegan/runs Arch Linux/owns a MiSTer)? 

A: Don't worry, they'll be sure to tell you.

 

Wow, and in an FPGA thread? The nerve! Hmmm.

I wonder if you visited a "diet forum" and would be pissed to see a thread about eating vegan? LOL

[M-S]

2 hours ago, donjn said:

Yes, and the ANTI-Mister people have even gotten worse!
To unfairly lump me in with all the Mister fanboys who are aggressive and think they are all holy is completely off the mark.

I didn't realize that I already posted this info here mentioning some of the details of what costs would come to.
I will say looking back at your response to that, some of your information is flat out wrong.

 Some people lightly answered and corrected your post and you seemingly got really mad, if that isn't being a fanboy I don't know what is.

2 hours ago, donjn said:

 

• Find me an AV modded Atari 2600 for under $200. And yes, the one on Ebay does not include 2600 controllers. The one for $90 includes a cheap controller and the other two I consider "worth purchasing" are around $150 and have no controllers.
• Regarding a CRT yes you can find a VHS combo CRT for $150. But are you really going to pick the worst of the worst to fit your argument? Anyone who is into this stuff knows that a Commodore monitor or Trinitron, JVC etc will only do. Sure you may find one locally on Craigslist if you get super lucky and wait months and months for one to pop up. If you call $300 "scalping" for a good condition Commodore monitor you are not aware of the value of these things now.

I don't use Ebay, it's a website well known for having stores that sell stuff for a lot more than what it's actually worth. As far as I know all of the devices you listed only support up to composite and S-Video, you don't need a proper period accurate computer monitor to use them. I have never paid more than R$300 for a good consumer CRT.

2 hours ago, donjn said:

 

• You said regarding the Mister FPGA: "these cores aren't more accurate than software emulation and don't play all games". This 100% false. Yes, there are some emulators that are basically 99.9% accurate and you cant beat that, but some aren't. And almost all emulators have some sort of input lag I don't like. And please don't tell me to adjust my TV or monitor to "game mode"
• Calling the Mister FPGA an "emulation box" is really insulting. You are basically putting it in the same category as an Atgames box or a raspberry PI. You should do more research.
• Let me know when Mister is $100. That comment has already aged like milk in two weeks. There is already reports now that there are some big delays ahead.
• Finally, I was you 6 months ago. Hesitant on the price, etc. I loved and still love the convenience of emulation and love old hardware.

 

No, I'm right, take the 2600 games that have a more modern cartridge expansion like the DPC+ for example, you can't play them on any FPGA but you can on Stella. As I said, I don't know a lot about the C64 and the Atari 8-bit computers, but there surely must be a few games that won't work on them, specially homebrews and stuff that needs accessories. Being accurate is about deccaping the chips and making an emulator that almost perfectly recreates them.

Now, you really seem like a casual person that has almost no technical knowledge, you don't even know how to solder, so you really shouldn't tell others to "do more research". FPGA is emulation and even the ones that manufacture the chips use the word emulation in documents, just because you think it's better doesn't mean it's not an emulation box.

2 hours ago, donjn said:

Wow, and in an FPGA thread? The nerve! Hmmm.

I wonder if you visited a "diet forum" and would be pissed to see a thread about eating vegan? LOL

There's an FPGA thread in the Classic Console subforum, the discussion on this thread has been pretty much concluded, and you bumped it twice with almost the same post.

Now, if an Admin sees this, maybe this thread is already deserving a lock.

[+Sauron]

7 hours ago, donjn said:

Wow, and in an FPGA thread? The nerve! Hmmm.

I wonder if you visited a "diet forum" and would be pissed to see a thread about eating vegan? LOL

Glad to see you lack a sense of humor. I suppose that is info we can file away for later.

 

[MrBeefy]

On 6/10/2024 at 1:17 PM, M-S said:

 Some people lightly answered and corrected your post and you seemingly got really mad, if that isn't being a fanboy I don't know what is.

I don't use Ebay, it's a website well known for having stores that sell stuff for a lot more than what it's actually worth. As far as I know all of the devices you listed only support up to composite and S-Video, you don't need a proper period accurate computer monitor to use them. I have never paid more than R$300 for a good consumer CRT.

No, I'm right, take the 2600 games that have a more modern cartridge expansion like the DPC+ for example, you can't play them on any FPGA but you can on Stella. As I said, I don't know a lot about the C64 and the Atari 8-bit computers, but there surely must be a few games that won't work on them, specially homebrews and stuff that needs accessories. Being accurate is about deccaping the chips and making an emulator that almost perfectly recreates them.

Now, you really seem like a casual person that has almost no technical knowledge, you don't even know how to solder, so you really shouldn't tell others to "do more research". FPGA is emulation and even the ones that manufacture the chips use the word emulation in documents, just because you think it's better doesn't mean it's not an emulation box.

There's an FPGA thread in the Classic Console subforum, the discussion on this thread has been pretty much concluded, and you bumped it twice with almost the same post.

Now, if an Admin sees this, maybe this thread is already deserving a lock.

But if it's locked how will we declare when the fad is over?

[Lost Monkey]

On 6/8/2024 at 2:32 PM, NE146 said:

I USED to suffer from game paralysis before, for years and years! (e.g. having a spindle of hundreds of burned PSX games, and playing none of it). But I learned the discipline of getting out of that mindset and now I mostly have no problems having an entire library of games available on a whim. It's simply choosing your game and playing it  no matter how long it takes. I'm on month 3 of playing SNES Earthbound for the first time ever, for example and unless the game starts getting really boring or agitating I'm not going to play another SNES game until it's done. I'll play other things on other consoles (5200 Berzerk, 2600 Tutankham, Genesis - Granada, Iphone - Candy Crush 😛  Or whatever. But for the most part, it's one game per console and stick with it.  Next SNES game I'm going to probably do is Legend of the Mystical Ninja but that's going to be a ways away.

 

 

I am jealous.  I am going to try this approach.

[donjn]

On 6/10/2024 at 11:17 AM, M-S said:

Some people lightly answered and corrected your post and you seemingly got really mad, if that isn't being a fanboy I don't know what is.

Can you show me where I was "lightly corrected" and how I got "really mad"? Am I not allowed to respond and disagree without someone assuming I got "mad" simple because I don't agree with you? Espeically because you keep mentioning how I keep bumping the thread like you are the Atari Forum police. Oddly, and ironically, you seem a bit mad yourself.

 

And you want to know why people never say they are sorry or "my bad"? its because it gets ignored. I mentioned that I forgot I had posted some info earlier. But of course, you go for the negative...

On 6/10/2024 at 11:17 AM, M-S said:

I don't use Ebay, it's a website well known for having stores that sell stuff for a lot more than what it's actually worth. As far as I know all of the devices you listed only support up to composite and S-Video, you don't need a proper period accurate computer monitor to use them. I have never paid more than R$300 for a good consumer CRT.

We are all aware the Ebay has retro stuff that is overpriced. Regarding the deices I mentioned, what is your argument here vs Mister FPGA? Hardware or emulation? If you are going to say you don't need a proper period accurate computer monitor then please, tell us the options? A cheap Amazon, composite or s-video to HDMI adapter? Good luck. Or how about a better solution, $100+ for a Retrotink. Is this your solution? Or do you prefer emulation? Even if you get a good consumer CRT for $150, all the other hardware you need and "multi-cart" sup[port purchase are still much higher than the Mister.

 

On 6/10/2024 at 11:17 AM, M-S said:

No, I'm right, take the 2600 games that have a more modern cartridge expansion like the DPC+ for example, you can't play them on any FPGA but you can on Stella. As I said, I don't know a lot about the C64 and the Atari 8-bit computers, but there surely must be a few games that won't work on them, specially homebrews and stuff that needs accessories. Being accurate is about deccaping the chips and making an emulator that almost perfectly recreates them.

Now, you really seem like a casual person that has almost no technical knowledge, you don't even know how to solder, so you really shouldn't tell others to "do more research". FPGA is emulation and even the ones that manufacture the chips use the word emulation in documents, just because you think it's better doesn't mean it's not an emulation box.

No, you're 100% wrong. A lot of the newer cartridge expansions work fine on the Mister FPGA core as there are lots of options to mess with. It uses the 7800 core. Some might not work, but that is a really obscure hill to die on, plus I really don't care anyway. I don't play those games. All games Ive thrown at it work 100%. Remember, I'm not trying to talk anyone into getting this. I was just tossing out information in case anyone is interested.

 

Wow, did you really spend the time to dig deep into my post history and go back almost a year ago into a thread where I mentioned I dont solder, just so you could tell me not to tell other to do more research? Holy cow dude....No technical knowledge? I have written software programs and know several computer languages. I am also a network manager. I have rebuilt many computers over the years but no, I don't solder. Guess that's not enough for you huh?

 

Now, TECHNICALLY the Mister FPGA IS emulation yes but it is emulation at the hardware level, not software. Your argument is akin to saying high school players playing BASEBALL is the same is major leaguers playing baseball. Technically, yes, its still baseball, but....FPGA is better emulation because it is literally forcing a physical chip to work the same way the original machines worked. But it seems you see things in black and white. Stella is emulation and Mister FPGA is emulation so they are the same in your eyes. If thats the argument you are making then my point still stands, do more research. Sorry if that offends you.

On 6/10/2024 at 11:17 AM, M-S said:

There's an FPGA thread in the Classic Console subforum, the discussion on this thread has been pretty much concluded, and you bumped it twice with almost the same post.

Now, if an Admin sees this, maybe this thread is already deserving a lock.

Man you are sensitive to bumping. You act as if I Necro'd a thread from a year ago. It was two weeks!
And again I pretty much said I forgot that I made a post in this thread already with that stuff which is pretty much an apology. But again, ignore....Stay negative....

Calm down dude.

 

In conclusion if its one thing we can agree on, yes, this thread has run its course.

I enjoy and see the benefits of Mister FPGA and you dont.

We have both stated why we do and don't.

We can agree to disagee. To respond further is foolish.

Lets let it go. Im out.
 

 

 

Edited June 12 by donjn

[Gentlegamer]

On 6/8/2024 at 2:33 AM, roots.genoa said:

I've said it a million times already, but I lack the discipline of being able to pick one game if I have access to a full ROM set, so I prefer to buy games (digitally or physically), because it gives me the motivation to actually beat them. Because of that, I'm not really interested in software emulation and MISTer, but Analogue systems are perfect for me. That being said, I sometimes enjoy the jailbreak to be able to try homebrew demos.

The solution if using a flash cart is to only put one game at a time on it.

[roots.genoa]

Just now, Gentlegamer said:

The solution if using a flash cart is to only put one game at a time on it.

But which one? How do I choose what to play? It doesn't change the fact that I have an access to too many games at once.

[Razzie.P]

3 hours ago, MrBeefy said:

But if it's locked how will we declare when the fad is over?

We'll have to go Old School and stand on the corner yelling "Hear Ye! Hear Ye!"

 

We can start a new thread to coordinate who stands where.