How long until the FPGA fad runs out?

[MrBeefy]

8 hours ago, Razzie.P said:

We'll have to go Old School and stand on the corner yelling "Hear Ye! Hear Ye!"

 

We can start a new thread to coordinate who stands where.

So who wants to declare in the modern section because it's new hardware? Who in classic since it's for old games? And who under Atari Gemeral because I have no clue why?

[phoenixdownita]

If the cheap de-10 nano clone comes out and it’s sustainable, the fad ain’t gonna be out anytime soon.

There’s a promise (we’ll see how that goes) to have a de-10 clone + 128mb ram at 120us$ or whereabouts… if that is true it is very cheap.

 

I have both real hw with all sorts of composite/Svideo/rgb mods that I could afford plus a MiSTer and any SW emulator I want.

I have been spending my MiSTer time on the Atari ST core, you can check on that AA section the results (the megaSTE core is 30% faster in gembench than real hw) plus Amiga core to compare the same game across platforms.

 

All my cart based consoles have flashcarts except the 7800 for which I hand-built my own ghetto eprom multicarts years ago. Most of my cd based ones have modchips but believe it or not I probably have 300+ original cds in the house across many generations.

 

I tend to play consoles on real hw and computers on MiSTer but that’s not a hard rule, I’ve played end to end games on the MiSTer Neogeo core AND actual ngcd and actual AES and actual cdz … it’s all good.

 

I will never diss SW based emulation, they do a fantastic job in many cases, and now we can have it all, real hw, fpga, sw.

Stop bickering and go play.

Edited June 13 by phoenixdownita

[roots.genoa]

1 hour ago, MrBeefy said:

So who wants to declare in the modern section because it's new hardware? Who in classic since it's for old games? And who under Atari Gemeral because I have no clue why?

You can also ask pdubs to create a topic in every sub-section of AA, he already does it on a regular basis after all. 🙂

[donjn]

8 hours ago, phoenixdownita said:

If the cheap de-10 nano clone comes out and it’s sustainable, the fad ain’t gonna be out anytime soon.

There’s a promise (we’ll see how that goes) to have a de-10 clone + 128mb ram at 120us$ or whereabouts… if that is true it is very cheap.

 

I have both real hw with all sorts of composite/Svideo/rgb mods that I could afford plus a MiSTer and any SW emulator I want.

I have been spending my MiSTer time on the Atari ST core, you can check on that AA section the results (the megaSTE core is 30% faster in gembench than real hw) plus Amiga core to compare the same game across platforms.

 

All my cart based consoles have flashcarts except the 7800 for which I hand-built my own ghetto eprom multicarts years ago. Most of my cd based ones have modchips but believe it or not I probably have 300+ original cds in the house across many generations.

 

I tend to play consoles on real hw and computers on MiSTer but that’s not a hard rule, I’ve played end to end games on the MiSTer Neogeo core AND actual ngcd and actual AES and actual cdz … it’s all good.

 

I will never diss SW based emulation, they do a fantastic job in many cases, and now we can have it all, real hw, fpga, sw.

Stop bickering and go play.

Great post, and I agree. It doesn't have to be a competition. I still software emulate from time to time as well because for some instances it is better and more convenient.

[phoenixdownita]

18 minutes ago, donjn said:

Great post, and I agree. It doesn't have to be a competition. I still software emulate from time to time as well because for some instances it is better and more convenient.

Yes, note though there has been a certain attitude to diss sw emu or even real hw, and portray fpga as the orthodox way to play.

 

I have not gotten that vibe from your post, but there’s fatigue wrt such attitude, a little bit like a few years ago everything was “I have a raspberry pi” as the only answer to any and all sbc needs (sw emu included). And I do a few raspberry pi boards but also odroids, NVidia nano, bunch of Arduino (originals) but also other brands some with their own IDE.

 

Use what fits you best, keep an open mind, keep on playing!

[donjn]

1 minute ago, phoenixdownita said:

Yes, note though there has been a certain attitude to diss sw emu or even real hw, and portray fpga as the orthodox way to play.

 

I have not gotten that vibe from your post, but there’s fatigue wrt such attitude, a little bit like a few years ago everything was “I have a raspberry pi” as the only answer to any and all sbc needs (sw emu included). And I do a few raspberry pi boards but also odroids, NVidia nano, bunch of Arduino (originals) but also other brands some with their own IDE.

 

Use what fits you best, keep an open mind, keep on playing!

Exactly, and there seems to be someone in this thread who does not like me to the point of searching through my post history. It's creepy AF, too.
I have never been an all-or-nothing person. I think there is a place for each type of way to play. But I posted my setup (twice, my bad!), and now Im the bad guy, the "cocky FPGA" guy.

Like I said, sometimes the complainers about an issue are worse than the actual issue itself!

 

[MrBeefy]

8 hours ago, roots.genoa said:

You can also ask pdubs to create a topic in every sub-section of AA, he already does it on a regular basis after all. 🙂

Speakerhats are loud and cross forum thread boundaries.

[+D Train]

1 hour ago, MrBeefy said:

Speakerhats are loud and cross forum thread boundaries.

I can hear speaker hats while reading the forums right now!

[+Zeptari]

3 hours ago, D Train said:

I can hear speaker hats while reading the forums right now!

Yup me too! Sounds like this:

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uvRBUw_Ls2o

 

[M-S]

On 5/28/2024 at 4:44 PM, donjn said:

 

• I don’t solder, it’s just not my thing

I didin't dig through your profile, you said you don't solder

On 6/12/2024 at 5:19 PM, donjn said:

Can you show me where I was "lightly corrected" and how I got "really mad"? Am I not allowed to respond and disagree without someone assuming I got "mad" simple because I don't agree with you? Espeically because you keep mentioning how I keep bumping the thread like you are the Atari Forum police. Oddly, and ironically, you seem a bit mad yourself.

 

And you want to know why people never say they are sorry or "my bad"? its because it gets ignored. I mentioned that I forgot I had posted some info earlier. But of course, you go for the negative...

We are all aware the Ebay has retro stuff that is overpriced. Regarding the deices I mentioned, what is your argument here vs Mister FPGA? Hardware or emulation? If you are going to say you don't need a proper period accurate computer monitor then please, tell us the options? A cheap Amazon, composite or s-video to HDMI adapter? Good luck. Or how about a better solution, $100+ for a Retrotink. Is this your solution? Or do you prefer emulation? Even if you get a good consumer CRT for $150, all the other hardware you need and "multi-cart" sup[port purchase are still much higher than the Mister.

 

No, you're 100% wrong. A lot of the newer cartridge expansions work fine on the Mister FPGA core as there are lots of options to mess with. It uses the 7800 core. Some might not work, but that is a really obscure hill to die on, plus I really don't care anyway. I don't play those games. All games Ive thrown at it work 100%. Remember, I'm not trying to talk anyone into getting this. I was just tossing out information in case anyone is interested.

By lightly corrected I meant that nobody meant to offend you or start an argument, this isn't what we do in the forum, unlike calling someone creepy for something he didn't do. And when I said R$300 I meant the Brazillian currency, which roughly equals 60U$, prices change a lot depending on the country, but I know about people that live in the US and bought their CRTs for a similar price.

4 hours ago, donjn said:

Exactly, and there seems to be someone in this thread who does not like me to the point of searching through my post history. It's creepy AF, too.
I have never been an all-or-nothing person. I think there is a place for each type of way to play. But I posted my setup (twice, my bad!), and now Im the bad guy, the "cocky FPGA" guy.

Like I said, sometimes the complainers about an issue are worse than the actual issue itself!

I simply don't believe that you didn't know you had already posted your setup in this thread, it was right in the last page. I could go on and keep this thread going, but I'm not willing to, it's tiresome.

[+D Train]

1 hour ago, Zeptari said:

Sounds like this:

hahahahah!  yes!

[donjn]

4 hours ago, M-S said:

I simply don't believe that you didn't know you had already posted your setup in this thread, it was right in the last page. I could go on and keep this thread going, but I'm not willing to, it's tiresome.

My posts were two weeks apart, two pages away from each other.

Are you calling me a liar? Because "this isn't what we do in the forum"...

I'm done with ya!

[John Stamos Mullet]

Make the hardware at an affordable price point, and these kinds of threads would disappear.

[NE146]

On 6/14/2024 at 6:01 PM, John Stamos Mullet said:

Make the hardware at an affordable price point, and these kinds of threads would disappear.

Well yes while that's true, it makes it sound like affordibility is something that has yet to be realized for this device...  when it was! It was quite affordable for a few years even. That was 100% the total attraction at first for a lot of people when for about $120 you could get a DE10-Nano couple that with a $60 SDRAM and a $5 USB hub and it was the multi-console of your dreams for less than $200.

 

Thanks inflation!

 

[roots.genoa]

Yes, but things will really change when a 'major hardware company' will get interested in it. For now, FPGA is mostly used by industry professionals, so costs are extremely high (at least for powerful models). People may not be aware that the DE10 Nano was cheap because it was a special offer for students (no, not for retrogaming enthusiasts, sorry), so it was basically a loophole the MISTer benefited from.

[phoenixdownita]

30 minutes ago, roots.genoa said:

Yes, but things will really change when a 'major hardware company' will get interested in it. For now, FPGA is mostly used by industry professionals, so costs are extremely high (at least for powerful models). People may not be aware that the DE10 Nano was cheap because it was a special offer for students (no, not for retrogaming enthusiasts, sorry), so it was basically a loophole the MISTer benefited from.

The non student version wasn’t that much more expensive, (10-15%) I believe what you meant to say is that the de10 nano was a dev board as such subsidized by intel/altera so students and professionals can prototype and test with it their designs.

And yes the board with all the extras it carries costed 50% or less of just the fpga chip that it uses, that made it affordable for MiSTer usage.

 

What is not well explained is how the newly announced de10 nano cheap clone can be even cheaper given the fpga chip price didn’t decrease, if anything it’s more expensive … we’ll see.

Edited June 16 by phoenixdownita

[ukiha]

FPGA's were not expensive around the time the MiSTer craze blew up, I think a part of the appeal was how much cheaper it was compared to hardware, in some areas. 

 

If the trend of it being as expensive as it is now reverses, I'm sure it would become far more normal and accepted. (There is certainly a tall poppy perception of people who can afford it, as well as people being annoyed at the attitudes some owners have.)

 

Although with its gentrification over recent time, much like many niche hobbies, I think its limited in its growth.

I don't think the 'fad' will ever die out, I think the better question is, will the FPGA trend become affordable, or remain in the hands of enthusiasts only?

[UnRedeemed]

To me, the question is, what is the most appealing and enjoyable way (among those currently available to me) to experience each system of interest?  For a while, my MiSTer was the main hardware I used due to its versatility, accuracy, and lack of lag.  I was in awe of its capability.  Although that hasn’t really changed, at this point I have not used it in many months.  The three main reasons: 1) fan noise; 2) controller hassles; 3) interface.  

 

To resolve the first, I bought a passively cooled case, but laziness has prevented me from getting around to doing the transplant.  Once I get that done, I plan to use the MiSTer primarily as an arcade machine, and also for rare or rarely played systems.   

[NE146]

On the subject of affordability, looks like misteraddons has a sale going on for some common components. e.g. the 128Mb SDRAM is on sale for $40 amongst others. 

 

https://misteraddons.com/products/sdram?_pos=1&_sid=5c90e09e7&_ss=r

Edited June 16 by NE146