Are any more classic 7800 games likely to get modern reprints?

[+Fred_M]

2 hours ago, Ben from Plaion said:

Basically they really liked the idea but required a Minimum Guarantee (an upfront payment to them) of hundreds of thousands of dollars if not 1 million dollars. For the use of a 35 year dormant IP.

Man, what an awful story. I thought we at AtariAge are the dreamers, but reading your story that IP-owner is even a bigger dreamer 😂 

 

I sincerely hope other homebrew programmers do know that it is possible to contact you and (possibly) get their game(s) published, as long as they are not based on an IP owned by a third party. Maybe you should create a little contest. The main prize can be an official release by Plaion/Atari.

[Defender_2600]

4 hours ago, Ben from Plaion said:

Thank heavens you stopped, I can only get so erect.

 

I have a example story regarding IP-land. So a homebrew developer contacts me lets say 6 months ago. He had a top notch arcade conversion for the 7800 of a well recognised but dorment game. I personally loved it. Steller visuals, YM sound and sweet sweet presention. I have some back and forth and make a provisional offer for his code. Then luckilly the IP owner I manage to meet in person as they are in the area. Have a high level meeting with two representatives. I prepared by designing the Packshot, getting a build to show at the meeting, had a powerpoint presentation made up and did a financial p&l forecast which details all the levels of costs and returns and projected unit sales. Meeting goes well. However I get ghosted for a few months, after a couple of chases he responds saying he is waiting for a meeting with his boss, another month goes by. I get a response. Basically they really liked the idea but required a Minimum Guarantee (an upfront payment to them) of hundreds of thousands of dollars if not 1 million dollars. For the use of a 35 year dormant IP. 

 

So all that effort for nothing. Extreme example but it happens a lot.

 

 

 

Thank you so much for your hard work, passion, and sharing with us, it's really appreciated. Of course we can't ask you anything else about this story, so it will remain a mystery. Considering the unreasonable cost of the license, my imagination is ruling out Capcom, and considering the age of the IP I'm also ruling out Namco. Maybe it's something from 1987.

 

Sad the rejection on 1942, and to think that Capcom has licensed games such as Street Fighter II, 5,500 copies on cartridge:

 

https://www.iam8bit.com/products/street-fighter-ii-30th-anniversary-edition

 

And the bizarre thing was that they warned that their cartridges could catch fire because of the 3.3V flash chips:

 

https://www.vintagecomputing.com/index.php/archives/1748/new-limited-edition-street-fighter-ii-cartridge-could-literally-burst-into-flames-or-just-ruin-your-snes

 

Edited September 11 by Defender_2600

[John Stamos Mullet]

4 hours ago, Ben from Plaion said:

Thank heavens you stopped, I can only get so erect.

 

I have a example story regarding IP-land. So a homebrew developer contacts me lets say 6 months ago. He had a top notch arcade conversion for the 7800 of a well recognised but dorment game. I personally loved it. Steller visuals, YM sound and sweet sweet presention. I have some back and forth and make a provisional offer for his code. Then luckilly the IP owner I manage to meet in person as they are in the area. Have a high level meeting with two representatives. I prepared by designing the Packshot, getting a build to show at the meeting, had a powerpoint presentation made up and did a financial p&l forecast which details all the levels of costs and returns and projected unit sales. Meeting goes well. However I get ghosted for a few months, after a couple of chases he responds saying he is waiting for a meeting with his boss, another month goes by. I get a response. Basically they really liked the idea but required a Minimum Guarantee (an upfront payment to them) of hundreds of thousands of dollars if not 1 million dollars. For the use of a 35 year dormant IP. 

 

So all that effort for nothing. Extreme example but it happens a lot.

 

 

It boggles my mind that this would be their reaction. Like - You and the homebrewer who coded the game have done all the actual work. All they have to do is agree to let you use the IP for a platform they had no plans to even look at, for a title they haven't touched in decades, and they go and Lucy the Football with it and demand an absurd fee for an extremely niche market product, thereby guaranteeing they get... nothing.

 

They could have made a modest profit on something that is literally costing them nothing right now. Instead they overshot the landing and ended up in no man's land. Dumb, dumb, dumb.

[Ben from Plaion]

1 hour ago, Defender_2600 said:

 

Thank you so much for your hard work, passion, and sharing with us, it's really appreciated. Of course we can't ask you anything else about this story, so it will remain a mystery. Considering the unreasonable cost of the license, my imagination is ruling out Capcom, and considering the age of the IP I'm also ruling out Namco. Maybe it's something from 1987.

 

Sad the rejection on 1942, and to think that Capcom has licensed games such as Street Fighter II, 5,500 copies on cartridge:

 

https://www.iam8bit.com/products/street-fighter-ii-30th-anniversary-edition

 

And the bizarre thing was that they warned that their cartridges could catch fire because of the 3.3V flash chips:

 

https://www.vintagecomputing.com/index.php/archives/1748/new-limited-edition-street-fighter-ii-cartridge-could-literally-burst-into-flames-or-just-ruin-your-snes

 

Many of these rejections could be reversed with perseverance, but I'm not short of opportunities to chase, have to try and not be a busy fool.

 

I remember seeing the SF2 cart. They surely could of sold many many more. 5000 seems low for such a high profile. Kind of interesting that Capcom ok'd it especially considering the cartridges platform, tbh kind of encourages me as it's quite the precedent.

 

Another option would be to change the title of 1942 to something like WW2, change up some graphics, backgrounds  and enemy formation patterns. But then it kind of defeats the object of all the hard work the developer put into the faithful recreation, anyway just spitballing interesting stuff.

 

 

[Ben from Plaion]

1 hour ago, John Stamos Mullet said:

It boggles my mind that this would be their reaction. Like - You and the homebrewer who coded the game have done all the actual work. All they have to do is agree to let you use the IP for a platform they had no plans to even look at, for a title they haven't touched in decades, and they go and Lucy the Football with it and demand an absurd fee for an extremely niche market product, thereby guaranteeing they get... nothing.

 

They could have made a modest profit on something that is literally costing them nothing right now. Instead they overshot the landing and ended up in no man's land. Dumb, dumb, dumb.

You would of been apoplectic with a recent rejection I heard about.

 

But life goes on, we are in a good spot. Like I said there is so much to work on. Every Monday when I speak to Atari I am super pumped with what they are trying to achieve.

 

We have to do it, make money by providing consumers product that they actually want to buy. I'm cautiously optimistic that this project will continue to grow in scope and with that you get a tumbling snowball effect I hope.

[Ben from Plaion]

7 hours ago, JetmanUK said:

Will say it for the millionth time.... Dark Chambers 7800 must be next. Surely?! 

Yes, it's on the prospective list, primarily due to your requests and that its a damn fine game.

[Defender_2600]

16 minutes ago, Ben from Plaion said:

Kind of interesting that Capcom ok'd it especially considering the cartridges platform, tbh kind of encourages me as it's quite the precedent.

 

So if it helps, here are other cartridges released under Capcom license:

 

Mega Man 2 - 8,500* Brand-New Playable Cartridge

 

https://www.iam8bit.com/products/mega-man-2-30th-anniversary-classic-cartridge

Mega Man X - 8,500* Brand-New Playable Cartridge

 

https://www.iam8bit.com/products/mega-man-x-30th-anniversary-classic-cartridge

 

Mega Man: The Wily Wars Brand-New Playable Cartridge

 

https://retro-bit.com/megaman-thewilywars/

 

[JetmanUK]

6 hours ago, Ben from Plaion said:

All proceeds to Stella Devs

Thomas might smile! 😱

 

😋😉 to Thomas 

[Ben from Plaion]

2 minutes ago, JetmanUK said:

Thomas might smile! 😱

 

😋😉 to Thomas 

He's aware and deserves it. No Stella and very difficult for a 2600+ to become reality

Edited September 11 by Ben from Plaion

[Zonie]

Not that I need any 7800 carts, I have all I need, but a multicart or two would be ideal.
Also, not likely to be any Nintendo games, like DK or MB I would presume.
Atari IP only likely.

[Giles N]

34 minutes ago, Ben from Plaion said:

Yes, it's on the prospective list, primarily due to your requests and that its a damn fine game.

Are you, or any over at Atari, considering re-leases of original classics with options for new elements in the game or game modes?

 

[JetmanUK]

19 minutes ago, Ben from Plaion said:

He's aware and deserves it. No Stella and very difficult for a 2600+ to become reality

I know, I like Thomas, I'm referring to the fact that he's a straight talking (some may say slightly spikey) character. 😋

 

To be clear, I do like Thomas, it was a good natured rib. 😊

[Zonie]

6 hours ago, Ben from Plaion said:

Thank heavens you stopped, I can only get so erect.

 

I have a example story regarding IP-land. So a homebrew developer contacts me lets say 6 months ago. He had a top notch arcade conversion for the 7800 of a well recognised but dorment game. I personally loved it. Steller visuals, YM sound and sweet sweet presention. I have some back and forth and make a provisional offer for his code. Then luckilly the IP owner I manage to meet in person as they are in the area. Have a high level meeting with two representatives. I prepared by designing the Packshot, getting a build to show at the meeting, had a powerpoint presentation made up and did a financial p&l forecast which details all the levels of costs and returns and projected unit sales. Meeting goes well. However I get ghosted for a few months, after a couple of chases he responds saying he is waiting for a meeting with his boss, another month goes by. I get a response. Basically they really liked the idea but required a Minimum Guarantee (an upfront payment to them) of hundreds of thousands of dollars if not 1 million dollars. For the use of a 35 year dormant IP. 

 

So all that effort for nothing. Extreme example but it happens a lot.

 

 

Not surprising. The more people that get involved, the more the greed takes over.

4 hours ago, Fred_M said:

Man, what an awful story. I thought we at AtariAge are the dreamers, but reading your story that IP-owner is even a bigger dreamer 😂 

 

I sincerely hope other homebrew programmers do know that it is possible to contact you and (possibly) get their game(s) published, as long as they are not based on an IP owned by a third party. Maybe you should create a little contest. The main prize can be an official release by Plaion/Atari.

Dreamer? No. Greedy Prick.

57 minutes ago, Ben from Plaion said:

You would of been apoplectic with a recent rejection I heard about.

 

But life goes on, we are in a good spot. Like I said there is so much to work on. Every Monday when I speak to Atari I am super pumped with what they are trying to achieve.

 

We have to do it, make money by providing consumers product that they actually want to buy. I'm cautiously optimistic that this project will continue to grow in scope and with that you get a tumbling snowball effect I hope.

If I owned such an IP, and all of a sudden along comes Atari, I'd work something reasonable out. It's not going to make millions, and getting a paycheck in the mailbox every month on royalties no matter the size, for doing nothing but saying Yes is always a good day.

Edited September 11 by Zonie

[+Fred_M]

3 minutes ago, Zonie said:

Dreamer? No. Greedy Prick.

Agreed 😂 and I thought only the Dutch are blunt 😉

[Zonie]

Just now, Fred_M said:

Agreed 😂 and I thought only the Dutch are blunt 😉

Well, I'm Swiss, so...

And I've spent some time working in Nijmegen over the years...

[JetmanUK]

It does feel particularly short sighted as details of the fee and contract in general would be kept confidential. They could take a relatively, what they may see as a small fee and benefit from the exposure given to a dormant IP. And any fee is better than zero. 

 

If the game is a well thought of classic it would no doubt receive positive press which in turn makes their IP more valuable, perhaps to the point that a reboot of the game on current gen consoles and PC may actually be their next viable step. The IP could then be a real money maker and be more valuable if they choose to sell, they would have more suiters no doubt too. Or they could continue to build the franchise, a real stepping stone. No, instead be a greedy rat, well sit on your 'asset' and let it rot then 🖕🏻

[insertclevernamehere]

On 9/10/2024 at 5:23 AM, Ben from Plaion said:

Yes, there will be more classic games getting re-prints.

I'm guessing the 7800 version of Desert Falcon is doable.

22 hours ago, Ben from Plaion said:

One thing I'd say is look at the publicly available evidence you get.... Atari bought some of Bob DeCresendzos catalogue a while back....BAM a few months later Atari make that catalogue front and centre of the new release wave...same with M-Network catalogue.

 

If you want to speculate and suggest look at the path of least resistance to Atari bringing out new product, the clues are there.

So I'm guessing (again) and hoping that maybe some official releases of Vladimir Zuniga and Muddyfunster games could be on that path of least resistance.

[MrChickenz]

Is Mindscape still around? They had some good games.

 

 

 

Edited September 11 by MrChickenz

[Defender_2600]

2 hours ago, Ben from Plaion said:

Yes, it's on the prospective list, primarily due to your requests and that its a damn fine game.

 

If an enhanced version is an option, it would be nice to include the Pokey audio from the 8-bit XE version which specifically adds the player's walking sound effect. This makes the experience more immersive and the improved audio might appeal to a wider audience. Alternatively, one could also leave the TIA audio if it were possible to just add the player's walking sound effect. I'm just mentioning this in case there are any volunteers who would like to improve the audio.

 

 

[Ripweade]

9 hours ago, Fred_M said:

...but for me this shows how happy people are with the products 

Not me.  Nope.  I can truthfully say that I am NOT happy with these products.

 

I LOVE these products!  Happy is too weak of a word for how I have embraced the 2600+ and the hard work they all are doing.

 

Love love LOVE!!!

[Ben from Plaion]

On 9/11/2024 at 10:12 PM, Defender_2600 said:

 

If an enhanced version is an option, it would be nice to include the Pokey audio from the 8-bit XE version which specifically adds the player's walking sound effect. This makes the experience more immersive and the improved audio might appeal to a wider audience. Alternatively, one could also leave the TIA audio if it were possible to just add the player's walking sound effect. I'm just mentioning this in case there are any volunteers who would like to improve the audio.

 

 

Argh, I don't know!  You kill me with these tantalising enhancements. Do I re-press dark chambers quick and dirty or go through hassle of arranging an enhanced edition. 

 

[tradyblix]

5 minutes ago, Ben from Plaion said:

Argh, I don't know!  You kill me with these tantalising enhancements. Do I re-press dark chambers quick and dirty or go through hassle of arranging an enhanced edition. 

 

The enhanced version. That would get me to buy it from you where as the quick and dirty version won't as I already have it. Also you can buy it used on ebay for 35 bucks.

 

100 percent that rattle sound is a roach head, btw. 

Edited September 12 by tradyblix

[Ben from Plaion]

4 minutes ago, tradyblix said:

The enhanced version. That would get me to buy it from you where as the quick and dirty version won't as I already have it. Also you can buy it used on ebay for 35 bucks.

 

100 percent that rattle sound is a roach head, btw. 

Ha, no surprise here!

 

I'd need to consult my guiding instrument, profitandlossforecastcalculator.excel, pretty sure quick and dirty would win....

 

But, don't get me wrong, additional counter arguements are made like "heightened brand recognition" and "respect from the enthusiast crowd" 😁

[jhoward]

19 minutes ago, Ben from Plaion said:

Argh, I don't know!  You kill me with these tantalising enhancements. Do I re-press dark chambers quick and dirty or go through hassle of arranging an enhanced edition. 

 

I would definitely buy an enhanced version. Not sure if I'd shell out for the standard cart, but maybe.

[Ben from Plaion]

19 minutes ago, jhoward said:

I would definitely buy an enhanced version. Not sure if I'd shell out for the standard cart, but maybe.

Of course we all want enhanced editions. 

 

When I fill in my profitandlossforecastcalculator.excel, the key is forecasted unit sales of a cart release. So in this case I'd have two tables one for original repress and one for enhanced edition, I'd have to think how many additional units I'd sell of the enhanced edition which comes with a whole heap of mind share input and undetermined additional cost Vs just sending a bin file to the factory for them to flash to an existing cart PCB design. That difference one way or the other primarily determines the decision

 

I do apologise to bring boring commercial detail to the conversation and as consumers of the product you just want as much as Atari can give to satisfy your wants and desires. But in my defense without the business viability there just wouldn't be the 2600+ and everything else that's been released and that's coming.

Edited September 12 by Ben from Plaion