Raijin Z Posted September 11, 2004 Share Posted September 11, 2004 Cool! Thats mean now we can replace that plug with any other in Radio Shack For the low, low everyday Radio Shack value price of $20, right? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
atari_aaron Posted September 11, 2004 Share Posted September 11, 2004 I apologized if this update strategy has already been discussed, but come on... Detachable controllers? A seperate power supply? Detachable video/audio cables? Come on... the Flashback is so close to being a true game console there has to be a way of adding more games to it in the future... It's posible that the Flashback can accept downloads through its joystick ports isn't it? Just a wild stab in the dark, but maybe there will be a download kit for the pc/mac coming out for this. Plug a serial cable from your computer into one of the joystick ports and download a bunch of games from an official Atari Flashback CD - 20 games for $10? Buy a developer's disk for $20? Can you see the potential for add-ons? There is a precedent for this update model isn't there? 7800 bios updates are done this way correct? Seems to me to be the way to do it, you don't have to install any cart ports, cd drives, or usb connectors... just use the 9 pin ports that are already there, a serial cable, and some custom PC/MAC software. Not that much of an added expense if it was done that way. It would explain why they decided to go with detachable controllers (which I still think should be joypads instead of those awful 7800 sticks). Anybody care to speculate if this is a possibility? Am I crazy? Am I just living in a dream world? Just think, you could have Flashback CD's put out by Activision... yeah, I must be crazy. Aaron Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mos6507 Posted September 12, 2004 Share Posted September 12, 2004 It's posible that the Flashback can accept downloads through its joystick ports isn't it? There probably is. But how much RAM is inside there? Probably more than 128 bytes. Can you jump to a game run from RAM? Maybe. These things run off a central menu program that is clearly demonstrating that the host machine is NOT a 6507/TIA/RIOT combo but something more powerful. The 2600 binaries on this thing are altered to run on this thing. They might even have been kinda cross-assembled which was the approach used for some of the emulations of fancier hardware (think SmashTV) on the Playstation. If that's the case, loading in a regular 2600 binary might be completely USELESS. So when people ask for a cart port what they are really doing is asking for a totally different architecture in order to support it. Maybe you could write directly to the host architecture, but that architecture simply is not the same as the 2600. The sound generator is definitely different, which is why the audio on these things doesn't sound right (too musical sounding). It probably has a regular framebuffer as well. It's like writing for an NES 8-bit or something. Is that really to get that excited about? What we all really want to see is a true portable with an LCD screen using a 2600-on-a-chip approach... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
atari_aaron Posted September 12, 2004 Share Posted September 12, 2004 Just reliving my childhood. If I get excited over the prospect of a new Atari game console with the capability of downloading and playing games on hardware that's not old, crappy, and purchased from ebay, it's merely for that reason. Sorry I mentioned it. Aaron Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shaggy the Atarian Posted September 13, 2004 Share Posted September 13, 2004 Just chiming in on the subject finally, with so many threads, this seems to be the most complete one so here it goes. I'll be buying the Flashback, even though I have a 2600 and 7800. In part because any effort by Atari to make hardware is a plus in my book and I hope that there is even more in the future. In some ways I see this to be a lot like Atari's 'Stand-Alone" consoles from the 70's before cartiridges became the norm. So perhaps this should be added to the stand-alone list in Atari history. While it is a little disappointing that there isn't a cartridge slot(having a 7800 with a built-in A/V composite cable that I don't have to risk installing myself is nice), I'll be happy with it anyways. If I had to pay for all of these games, say off of eBay it would probably total just about as much or even more than the console itself(mainly due to Planet Smashers and Saboteur). So I'll take and I hope Atari has some good success with this console and others they may hope to have in the future. Hasbro never had the balls to do such a thing and hopefully the inforgrames guys will have at least heard about the lessons learned from the Tramiel era. Long live the spirit of Atari Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VidGameKing Posted September 13, 2004 Share Posted September 13, 2004 Long live the spirit of Atari! i VIVA LE ATARI ! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bruce Tomlin Posted September 13, 2004 Share Posted September 13, 2004 There probably is. But how much RAM is inside there? Probably more than 128 bytes. Can you jump to a game run from RAM? Maybe. These things run off a central menu program that is clearly demonstrating that the host machine is NOT a 6507/TIA/RIOT combo but something more powerful. Has anybody actually SEEN a screen shot of the menu program yet? And yes, it is more than a 6507/TIA/RIOT. It's also a 7800. Which means it's got Maria circuitry and 4K of RAM. I currently don't have any reason to believe that it's NOT running a VHDL design of the Atari 7800 circuitry. But a decent menu screen would be no trouble at all on a 7800. In fact, it's been done before: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brad2600 Posted September 13, 2004 Share Posted September 13, 2004 Long live the spirit of Atari! i VIVA LE ATARI ! You mean the spirit of INFOGRAMES. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VidGameKing Posted September 13, 2004 Share Posted September 13, 2004 Long live the spirit of Atari! i VIVA LE ATARI ! You mean the spirit of INFOGRAMES. well... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
andy_bernstein Posted September 13, 2004 Share Posted September 13, 2004 And yes, it is more than a 6507/TIA/RIOT. It's also a 7800. Which means it's got Maria circuitry and 4K of RAM. I currently don't have any reason to believe that it's NOT running a VHDL design of the Atari 7800 circuitry Bruce, In this case, a VHDL Design would be some sort of 7800 on a chip (which means only one chip recreating all the inner functions of a 7800). Is that correct ? If this is the case, I'm wondering if it would be possible to hack a cartridge port in this thing as it would be a perfect recreation (sort of) of a 7800. AB.[/url] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brad2600 Posted September 13, 2004 Share Posted September 13, 2004 Long live the spirit of Atari! i VIVA LE ATARI ! You mean the spirit of INFOGRAMES. well... Sorry man. Infogrames has given me a new reason to despise the French. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bruce Tomlin Posted September 13, 2004 Share Posted September 13, 2004 If this is the case, I'm wondering if it would be possible to hack a cartridge port in this thing as it would be a perfect recreation (sort of) of a 7800. Only if it's a 2-chip design, with the ROM being a separate chip. There's not even a guarantee of that until it's released. What with FPGAs being old hat these days, they could develop on an FPGA and then commit the final design, ROM and all, to an ASIC. One glop-top is cheaper than two. Plus, there may be other issues, like no audio-in pin for the cartridge slot, so you can probably forget about hearing Ballblazer or Commando. Lack of an IRQ or HALT line won't be a problem (nothing released ever used them), but will it have the phase-2 clock output accessible? Will data or address lines end up buried in middle layers of a multi-layer board? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
andy_bernstein Posted September 13, 2004 Share Posted September 13, 2004 Bruce, Thanks for the reply. Let's cross our fingers for a separate ROM chip but, due to the extra cost involved, I doubt this will happen. There's so much anticipitation regarding the Flashback unit, I'm wondering if this machine will live to the hype. I know for sure that I'll buy two of them on the release day just to start hacking right away. Until then, I hope Curt will feed us with more information. BTW- As Curt said here last week, this is only the first step (hardware wise) for Atari / Infogrames and, if it is a commercial success, there will probably be more coming... just get me an XL/XE with a Maria chip and an Amy chip if they can rescue one from the afterlife ! @ Kepone: Sorry man. Infogrames has given me a new reason to despise the French. You may despise the French but at least they're doing something Hasbro never did. They're releasing a piece of hardware under the Atari name (which means no external licensing as with the Jakks Joysticks / Paddles). Also, there are many French members here at Atari Age and there is a strong Atari base in France (look at Atari Mania), I honestly do believe that, from Infogrames to homebrewers like Ebivision to web sites like Atari Mania, the French can help with Atari. AB. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NovaXpress Posted September 13, 2004 Share Posted September 13, 2004 I think that most of you would by a jar of crap as long as it had a Mt. Fuji logo on the side. This hobby was a lot better off before the corporations became involved. Every serious fan of REAL classic gaming should be praying for the Flashback to fail. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Raijin Z Posted September 13, 2004 Share Posted September 13, 2004 Majesco is the only company I respect when it comes to reissuing old hardware. It's just too bad they've kinda vanished. We need another Saturn, guys! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
figgler Posted September 13, 2004 Share Posted September 13, 2004 This hobby was a lot better off before the corporations became involved. Obviously. Welcome to every hobby ever conceived Every serious fan of REAL classic gaming should be praying for the Flashback to fail. Nonsense. That's like saying because I enjoy classic black and white films' date=' that I shouldn't be watching them on DVD and should be praying for their re-releases to bomb. Anyone who really wants to get exposed to these movies, should obviously buy an old film projector and "do it properly" or not bother. Whatever.[/quote'] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stingray Posted September 13, 2004 Share Posted September 13, 2004 This hobby was a lot better off before the corporations became involved. Every serious fan of REAL classic gaming should be praying for the Flashback to fail. I don't think I'm following your line of reasoning here. -S Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Raijin Z Posted September 13, 2004 Share Posted September 13, 2004 It's not a rerelease, it's a bastardization. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NovaXpress Posted September 13, 2004 Share Posted September 13, 2004 This Flashback isn't classic gaming, it's simulated bullshit. What have we gained by the mainstreaming of this hobby? Some lousy Jakks toys for kids and a couple of useless Activision compilations. Meanwhile we're losing our ROMs, our repros, all our little copyright grey areas that we were enjoying. Why does anyone want to see this crap sold on the shelves? We already had the perfect situation. The system was in the hands of people who care only about quality rather than money. We were free to rediscover lost games no matter who owned the rights and to rebuild a hobby the exact way that we, the hobbyists, wanted to. We were living the dream. Why was everyone so eager to bring in the marketers and the big boys? Why was everyone celebrating as we slowly began to lose what we had just so we could pay for an inferior version? For the last time, if you want a 2600 or 7800 you can buy the real thing right now. Do you all feel that you're better off with this reprogrammed imitation than you were when you had a galaxy of real reproduction 2600 carts at your fingertips? Is this Flashback monstrosity really cooler than having a good Space Invaders hack on cart or the ability to download Megamania at work for a little fun on the Z26? Are we better off now that when the Airword proto is finally found, it will probably be claimed by the lawyers before any of us get to see a screenshot? Tell me honestly, all things considered, is the 2600 collectors/gamers scene better than it was a year ago or worse? And another thing . . . this Flashback really does remind me of old school Atari, namely the release of Pac-Man. You can almost hear the marketers saying "those fools will buy any damn thing called Atari." Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Atariman Posted September 13, 2004 Share Posted September 13, 2004 Well, I guess it really depends on what aspects of the hobby each of us really enjoys. I never really got into repros or hacks, so I'm afraid that I wouldn't be affected by that. I'm not a proto-hunter, although I do get excited to hear about something new being found. In addition to this, I'm not an emulation fan for the Atari. I would rather play it on the real hardware with a real cartridge. Besides - Roms are legal as long as you own the cart... I think that those of us who are getting excited about this aren't happy because of the restrictions that will be put in place on the homebrewing community, but happy because there's finally something else out there to collect. We're looking for a little piece of how it 'used to be'. I haven't had the happiness of busting out a new piece of Atari hardware out of its packaging since the Jaguar... It's always fun to get something new that you've never tried before. That's what we'll be getting with the Flashback. Some of us will have something new to hack. Some of us will have a new console to show our friends (and probably be laughed at for. Boy, my friends are great) You believe that the Flashback console is going to be complete shit. Therefore, for you, it probably will be. You have already set some standards up in your mind that will be impossible to achieve this first time around. I, on the other hand, am just happy to have something new. I'm a collector, so I'm not really concerned that they get it absolutely right the first time. I just want to get one to try it out. I bought "Sneak n' Peek" for crap's sake. Of COURSE I'm going to buy anything with the Atari logo on it or anything commercially released for Atari... So, I think that the Flashback is going to be whatever you make it. While some aspects of the hobby may suffer, I also believe that other aspects of it will begin to thrive... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mock Posted September 13, 2004 Share Posted September 13, 2004 I think that most of you would by a jar of crap as long as it had a Mt. Fuji logo on the side. *goes to open up photoshop.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Raijin Z Posted September 13, 2004 Share Posted September 13, 2004 From my perspective, all these X-in-1 games are worthless. They change the games for no good reason without improving them in the slightest. Every time one of these abominations is released, what do I read? "The sound is messed up." "They took x-mode out of the game." "Why did they get rid of 2-player mode?" There is no excuse for imperfect translation of such simple technology (at least in the case of Atari systems). I mean, when you have manufacturing capabilities and millions upon millions in capital, is there any reason not to shoot for the moon? Oh yeah, profit. If the suckers will buy a lemon, why make lemonade? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Atariman Posted September 13, 2004 Share Posted September 13, 2004 well, I'd like to believe that since Atari took the time to actually reproduce the 7800 hardware that the Flashback is destined for something a little greater than the Jakk's controllers. We won't really know what is good and what is screwed up until we've had a chance to play them I suppose. *hopefully* we won't run into the problems that previous x-in-one systems have had in the past. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thomas Jentzsch Posted September 13, 2004 Share Posted September 13, 2004 Of COURSE I'm going to buy anything with the Atari logo on it... Then don't be surprised when the business solely concentrates on profiting from this attitude. BTW: I suppose you have this already? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mock Posted September 13, 2004 Share Posted September 13, 2004 Pretty soon you will only be able to find stuff on Bidiots! hmmm....wonders if thats part of the master plan? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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