emkay Posted March 19, 2006 Author Share Posted March 19, 2006 OK. I found a separate tool for "tuning in". Not 100% correct imho, but very good for creating examples. Those three tunes "show" a simple octave..... this time with the originally "out" 1.79MHz filter. If you have a look at the instruments... This time a frequency correction is used. Well... every note needs a separated instrument here to build the "tone-ladder". Who will ever produce music, when playing a melody and always change the instrument when playing a note...? If we now could program the offset to the calculated notes... or even set every instrument to a key.... for the range of two octaves ... at least... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rybags Posted March 19, 2006 Share Posted March 19, 2006 I also tried forced volume output to create triangle and sawtooth waveforms. Levels 0 through 7 have fairly consistent steps but 8 thru 15 are slightly smaller. Note: to get a truer representation of the waveform (graphically), use the Invert option in Audacity once you've taken a sample. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
emkay Posted March 19, 2006 Author Share Posted March 19, 2006 OK... here an older tune.... somehow "hard tuned" .... BTW: The "tool" says, that the bass notes are almost correct.... as the main voice aswell... , but the probem for short notes is still there... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
emkay Posted March 19, 2006 Author Share Posted March 19, 2006 Very interesting .... This "tune tool" seems to work almost properly .... Real sounds are recognized good. Checking the latest sid2pokey from Swiety, gives the result that almost every note is correct to slightly above. Then I checked the tunes from the forever party. Most of them suffer by detuning, if the tool works correctly. For Example . you don't know if a note is a G or G# because the note is played between them..... Perhaps it is different on the real POKEY.... Checking the "Chuck Rock tune", the tool says, that some notes of the filter voice are played correctly, some are above and some below..... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
emkay Posted March 19, 2006 Author Share Posted March 19, 2006 To go way further.... listening to Kohina radio... The NES plays correct notes.... "modern" ST tunes almost aswell. Amstrad shows the same thing that I wrote above: several notes are between real notes. That means, they are more out of tune than my hardsynth pieces.... MSX Music is always a bit "above".... a.s.o. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
emkay Posted March 19, 2006 Author Share Posted March 19, 2006 Third and last "Arcade" tunes are correct aswell... SID is interesting... having a Rob Hubbard tune, you see almost correct notes. Other tunes (scene) are out .... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MaPa Posted March 20, 2006 Share Posted March 20, 2006 I don't get it. I must say I'm total musicaly deaf but anyway.. what is wrong to play sound that doesn't have exact frequency of notes? Just because someone defined notes, it's forbidden to use other frequencies? I don't care about your's in tune or out of tune.. for me it's important if it sounds good. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tezz Posted March 20, 2006 Share Posted March 20, 2006 I don't get it. I must say I'm total musicaly deaf but anyway.. what is wrong to play sound that doesn't have exact frequency of notes? Just because someone defined notes, it's forbidden to use other frequencies? I don't care about your's in tune or out of tune.. for me it's important if it sounds good. It's not just the exact musical frequencies being wrong that is the problem, it is that the scale of keys are detuned differently from one another and therefore produces "out of tune" music. Imagine if you will a real guitar or piano with the strings tuned wrongly. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
emkay Posted March 20, 2006 Author Share Posted March 20, 2006 I don't get it. I must say I'm total musicaly deaf but anyway.. what is wrong to play sound that doesn't have exact frequency of notes? Just because someone defined notes, it's forbidden to use other frequencies? I don't care about your's in tune or out of tune.. for me it's important if it sounds good. Indeed.... it has to sound good. The problem is, that people say, my conversions are out of tune, but technically they are not really out of tune, compared to other chipmusic. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
emkay Posted March 20, 2006 Author Share Posted March 20, 2006 I don't get it. I must say I'm total musicaly deaf but anyway.. what is wrong to play sound that doesn't have exact frequency of notes? Just because someone defined notes, it's forbidden to use other frequencies? I don't care about your's in tune or out of tune.. for me it's important if it sounds good. It's not just the exact musical frequencies being wrong that is the problem, it is that the scale of keys are detuned differently from one another and therefore produces "out of tune" music. Imagine if you will a real guitar or piano with the strings tuned wrongly. Well... talking about the "Chuck Rock tune" .... the main voice is almost correct. I would only have to to a small correction on some notes, to have it tuned in, as you know from the SID. But, as the tool says, the main voice isn't really crossing other notes, as some other chiptunes do. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
analmux Posted March 20, 2006 Share Posted March 20, 2006 (edited) OK... here an older tune.... somehow "hard tuned" .... BTW: The "tool" says, that the bass notes are almost correct.... as the main voice aswell... , but the probem for short notes is still there... {talking about the TURG song} ...but sometimes, emkay, your tunes are 'out of note'. Though, in the beginning of the song, the main voice is in the right pitch (i.e. relative to the bass notes e.a.), but it's 2 semitones lower than it should be. When you transpose this main voice 2 semitones up, then you'd obtain the right music. Edited March 20, 2006 by analmux Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
emkay Posted March 22, 2006 Author Share Posted March 22, 2006 Here a different style for the "dragon"... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
emkay Posted March 22, 2006 Author Share Posted March 22, 2006 {talking about the TURG song} ...but sometimes, emkay, your tunes are 'out of note'. Though, in the beginning of the song, the main voice is in the right pitch (i.e. relative to the bass notes e.a.), but it's 2 semitones lower than it should be. When you transpose this main voice 2 semitones up, then you'd obtain the right music. Hm... I checked it. Perhaps the notation of the Mod-File differs from the used samples. 2up Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
twh/f2 Posted March 22, 2006 Share Posted March 22, 2006 Well... It is very interesting to me that people like the last conversion. OK.. the tune itself has a nice mood. And, the pokey sounds are somehow better since I found the better way for programming the filter timing. Putting the taste of music outside, I wonder, why there is not that positive feedback on "Bubble Bobble" and "Chuck Rock" and others... you are right. the "Bubble Bobble" song is nice and even better than the demon song. I especially like the "clumsy" beat in it. It's lets say this way - your interpretation of it, and this time your crazy style fits perfectly. my congrats on this one. Would be nice to combine the song with one of those bubble bobble g2f pictures or animations which were floating around in this forum a couple of month's ago. or much better to use it in a atari port ) goodnight europe, good morning San Jose \twh Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
emkay Posted March 23, 2006 Author Share Posted March 23, 2006 Fandal recorded a different piece of the "dragon" for me. I think, the basses are more in- tune now. http://www.fandal.cz/dragon-fine.mp3.... I wonder which main voice you guys prefer .... you are right. the "Bubble Bobble" song is nice and even better than the demon song. Seems, you got the latest ABBUC Magazin Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
_Fandal_ Posted March 23, 2006 Share Posted March 23, 2006 Fandal recorded a different piece of the "dragon" for me. I think, the basses are more in- tune now. http://www.fandal.cz/dragon-fine.mp3.... I wonder which main voice you guys prefer .... you are right. the "Bubble Bobble" song is nice and even better than the demon song. Seems, you got the latest ABBUC Magazin http://www.fandal.cz/dragon-fine.mp3 F. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
emkay Posted March 27, 2006 Author Share Posted March 27, 2006 another test.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
emkay Posted March 28, 2006 Author Share Posted March 28, 2006 another test.... Someone reading this thread with a PAL stereo setup? Would be nice to have a recording. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
analmux Posted March 28, 2006 Share Posted March 28, 2006 another test.... Someone reading this thread with a PAL stereo setup? Would be nice to have a recording. last tune is (again) heavily out of pitch, maybe correct that first ? (though i have not much time to help on this ) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
emkay Posted March 28, 2006 Author Share Posted March 28, 2006 (edited) last tune is (again) heavily out of pitch, maybe correct that first ? Sure? Well... I used only instruments with the "new" techniques .... and some simple squares to have some noise reduced. I'm getting more and more sure about, what I'm thinking since my first try with RMT: People say "it is out of tune" because it doesn't sound as people await it. So, I would prefer: "It's out of Ear" Exept some bass sounds and the 1.79MHz Filter, everything is inside the musical limits. My tool says the following: Main instruments are commonly at the correct frequency. Only a bass tone "Instrument 4" it cannot recognize, so this may be corrected ... Actually, the emulation produces noise that isn't there, when using the real thing. So bass sounds may be better recognizable there and finally adjusted there (not by the frequency, but by the filter setting and timing) And, please don't forget that short notes suffer by the abilites of all pokey trackers. It isn't even possible to have a correct filtered voice without gaps when playing a melody. It would help, at least, to have the possibility of simply changing the pitch, when playing a note, instead of restarting the whole envelope everytime. Additionally one would have the possibility of playing free portamentos. Well... when playing the whole tune, it says that the tune is all over pitched to A#. Which means that it almost fits to the original. Well, we really could call this "Pokey's character". Edited March 28, 2006 by emkay Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
emkay Posted April 6, 2006 Author Share Posted April 6, 2006 Here a "new" soundset for the "last samurai" tune. It sound much nicer now, but... It is a horrible thing that, when using the filter, It is not possible to have a portamento. Instead of a nice portamento, RMT offers only a fast play of different notes, and again it is not possible to play clean "slides". It always sound like a pianoman took "crack, speed" or else... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
emkay Posted April 8, 2006 Author Share Posted April 8, 2006 Here a 3rd set for the "last samurai" tune Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
analmux Posted April 9, 2006 Share Posted April 9, 2006 Here a 3rd set for the "last samurai" tune Hey Emkay, at least one of the instruments in your last tune has a wrong notation. Maybe it's some [table of frequency] <==> [table of notes] mistake?? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
emkay Posted April 10, 2006 Author Share Posted April 10, 2006 (edited) Here a 3rd set for the "last samurai" tune Hey Emkay, at least one of the instruments in your last tune has a wrong notation. Maybe it's some [table of frequency] <==> [table of notes] mistake?? Ok... it really was a "test" Here a version with "echo" in it. If there only was a solution for a "filter"-portamento".... Edited April 10, 2006 by emkay Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
emkay Posted April 10, 2006 Author Share Posted April 10, 2006 (edited) OK... last one of this. Now with some "basic" portamento FX. It seems that a full working "portamento" will make the difference between "Pokey tunes" and "Chip-music". Edited April 10, 2006 by emkay Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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