Rom Hunter Posted October 25, 2008 Share Posted October 25, 2008 (edited) Gremlins was not joined correctly. Here is the corrected version. The others mostly just need the bankswitching specified. Fatal Run I believe needs to be reordered. I was not able to get ms pacman or the diag working and I don't have any more time to look at them right now. Ok, I added Gremlins. Thanks for fixing! That leaves me with a non-working Fatal Run (NTSC), MsPacMan 920 and Test Cart (Dom42) 06-01-82 And the question what exactly Ewok Adventure (NTSC,F6) means. Edited October 25, 2008 by Rom Hunter Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Omegamatrix Posted October 25, 2008 Author Share Posted October 25, 2008 They don't seem to work in Z26. But I noticed they do to work in Stella. I will include Miner Prototype and LOTR (Earlier). Is Ewok Adventure (NTSC,F6) a hack/conversion or something? Fatal Run (NTSC) , Gremlins 2-12-84, MsPacMan 920 and Test Cart (Dom42) 06-01-82 do nothing, though. Mitch explained most of it above. The Ewok conversion was done by Thomas. Stella autodetects rom bankswitching, but Z26 relies on a known checksum for different bankswitching schemes. Try to override the default BS scheme to 3F for the miner rom. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Omegamatrix Posted October 25, 2008 Author Share Posted October 25, 2008 Correctly joined the Fatal Run NTSC proto should be the same as the one already in your collection, as they both came from Tempest. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rom Hunter Posted October 25, 2008 Share Posted October 25, 2008 (edited) Thanks, Omega. Well, only two non-working proto's left: MsPacMan 920 and Test Cart (Dom42) 06-01-82 Tempest, any idea why these dumps do not work? Edited October 25, 2008 by Rom Hunter Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Omegamatrix Posted October 25, 2008 Author Share Posted October 25, 2008 Just an extra confirmation on Fatal Run. The "fixed" rom matches the one in the V3 collection 100%. So I just needed to compare the two in Tempest's collection to each other. With the idea they were pieced together in the wrong order, I split each file into 4k chunks with HOM3 and used Clonespy to see if they matched. They did, showing the different order they were pieced together in. 4096 fatal (ntsc) fixed.2 4096 fatalrun (ntsc).6 4096 fatal (ntsc) fixed.8 4096 fatalrun (ntsc).8 4096 fatal (ntsc) fixed.7 4096 fatalrun (ntsc).7 4096 fatal (ntsc) fixed.4 4096 fatalrun (ntsc).2 4096 fatal (ntsc) fixed.3 4096 fatalrun (ntsc).1 4096 fatal (ntsc) fixed.1 4096 fatalrun (ntsc).5 4096 fatal (ntsc) fixed.6 4096 fatalrun (ntsc).4 4096 fatal (ntsc) fixed.5 4096 fatalrun (ntsc).3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tempest Posted October 25, 2008 Share Posted October 25, 2008 That Ms. Pac-Man *should* be the same as the final. I think there just were some changes in the bankswitching hotspots. I'll put the individual EPROM dumps up so someone else can join them (maybe I screwed up?). I can try and redump the test cart, but Ian recently tried it and said it wasn't working. Maybe bit rot finally got it? The EPROM is a single 2K 2716, so I doubt the dumper had issues. Tempest mspac.zip Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rom Hunter Posted October 25, 2008 Share Posted October 25, 2008 Ok, thanks guys. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Omegamatrix Posted October 25, 2008 Author Share Posted October 25, 2008 The proto is missing half of the code. I split it and the final into 1k chunks and compared them. 1024 ms. pac-man (1982) (atari - gcc, mark ackerman, glenn parker) (cx2675).2 1024 mspacman 920.2 1024 mspacman 920.4 1024 ms. pac-man (1982) (atari - gcc, mark ackerman, glenn parker) (cx2675).6 1024 mspacman 920.6 1024 mspacman 920.8 1024 ms. pac-man (1982) (atari - gcc, mark ackerman, glenn parker) (cx2675).5 1024 mspacman 920.5 1024 mspacman 920.7 1024 ms. pac-man (1982) (atari - gcc, mark ackerman, glenn parker) (cx2675).1 1024 mspacman 920.1 1024 mspacman 920.3 I also tried by the splitting the high and lo roms: 1024 mspac920.lo.4 1024 mspac920.lo.2 1024 ms. pac-man (1982) (atari - gcc, mark ackerman, glenn parker) (cx2675).2 1024 mspac920.hi.4 1024 mspac920.hi.2 1024 ms. pac-man (1982) (atari - gcc, mark ackerman, glenn parker) (cx2675).6 1024 mspac920.hi.3 1024 mspac920.hi.1 1024 ms. pac-man (1982) (atari - gcc, mark ackerman, glenn parker) (cx2675).5 1024 mspac920.lo.3 1024 mspac920.lo.1 1024 ms. pac-man (1982) (atari - gcc, mark ackerman, glenn parker) (cx2675).1 So half the code is missing, and is replaced by duplicate code. I'm guessing it happened while it was being dumped? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tempest Posted October 25, 2008 Share Posted October 25, 2008 Well no loss, it was the same as the final anyway. I dont have the proto anymore so I can't redump it. Tempest Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+Mitch Posted October 26, 2008 Share Posted October 26, 2008 Here's my dump of the 2600 diag cart. I did not have time to compare it so have fun. Mitch DIAG26.zip Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Omegamatrix Posted October 26, 2008 Author Share Posted October 26, 2008 It exactly matches the Stand Alone Test Cart, and not the dump for the Diagnostic Test Cart V2.6 out there. So your dump is the correct one and the old one is a bad dump. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rom Hunter Posted October 27, 2008 Share Posted October 27, 2008 (edited) Ok, here are the Arcadia and Starpath 'doubles': Arcadia___Starpath_Doubles.zip I know Nukey already looked at them, but I would like to know exactly which ones can actually be removed now. Any help would be much appreciated. Please use only the ROMs from this zip file and not any ROMs from your own collection, because some of these ROMs are already renamed by me. Edited October 27, 2008 by Rom Hunter Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rom Hunter Posted October 28, 2008 Share Posted October 28, 2008 (edited) The differences in the Killer Satellites binaries are probably due to the buffer in the tape conversion program not being initialized to zero either. Starpath games can have a maximum of 6K per load, so all the data above 0x1800 never gets sent to the Supercharger. The header data above 0x2000 contains information like what address to load each 256 bytes page to and where to start execution of the code. Only 56 of the 256 bytes in the header are actually used. There is no reason why there should be anything but zero stored in the 200 unused bytes of the header in the binary. The 'full' version of Killer Satellites not only has all this garbage data in the header, it also has incorrect values for the checksum bytes for all 24 pages of game code at 0x2040. Therefore I would say that the preview version is actually a good dump and the other version could be deleted. And if the other questionable Starpath ROMs also only differ in the data above 0x1800, then you can delete the ones that don't contain mostly zeros there as well. Ok, can someone please examine the ROMs in the zip above to see which versions can be removed according to Eckhard's info? Would be great to know this. Edited October 28, 2008 by Rom Hunter Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nukey Shay Posted October 28, 2008 Share Posted October 28, 2008 I would, but I wouldn't know which set of checksum values would be correct (that would be the one to keep for games that feature changes only in the tape buffer area). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rom Hunter Posted October 28, 2008 Share Posted October 28, 2008 Hmm. What to do now? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eckhard Stolberg Posted October 29, 2008 Share Posted October 29, 2008 Hmm. What to do now? You could try a little more patience, because a proper analysis might take a while. Most of the ROMs differ only in the unused bytes. The data found in those bytes sometimes even contains Windows code. I think we can assume an uninitialized ROM buffer in the tape conversion program and therefore consider these ROMs to be bad dumps. For all games exept Killer Satellites you already found the good dump. There are two ROMs that have some small changes in the game data too. Swords of Saros mostly differs in the unused bytes but also has one bit in the game code different. The normal ROM has the corect checksum for that part of the ROM, while the [a] version doesn't have checksums at all. Therefore I think we should consider the [a] version a bad dump. "Escape from the Mindmaster part 4 of 4" only differs in some bytes in the used part of the ROM. I haven't checked what that data table is used for in the game, but the normal ROM has all correct checksums, while the checksum for that part of the ROM doesn't match in the [a] binary. So it's most likely a bad dump too. So, For Killer Satellites you should keep the [a] version while for all other games you should remove the [a] ROMs. Ciao, Eckhard Stolberg Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rom Hunter Posted October 29, 2008 Share Posted October 29, 2008 (edited) Thanks, Eckhard. Edited October 29, 2008 by Rom Hunter Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rom Hunter Posted October 29, 2008 Share Posted October 29, 2008 In the meantime, I found two ROMs I don't notice the difference of: Crystal_Castles__1984___Atari__Michael_Kosaka__Peter_C._Niday__Robert_Vieira___CX26110_.bin Crystal_Castles__1984___Atari__Michael_Kosaka__Peter_C._Niday__Robert_Vieira___CX26110___Prototype_.bin According to Stella.pro the last one is supposed to be a prototype (this one cannot be found in Tempest's zip, btw?) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nukey Shay Posted October 29, 2008 Share Posted October 29, 2008 The differences are in RAM only. All zeros in the first file, all $FF in the second file. The games are totally identical. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rom Hunter Posted October 29, 2008 Share Posted October 29, 2008 Thanks! Well, that concludes the [a]lternates check. I will examine my collection to see if I can spot any other ones, but I think most of them are removed by now. Thanks again. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rom Hunter Posted October 29, 2008 Share Posted October 29, 2008 (edited) Most of the ROMs differ only in the unused bytes. The data found in those bytes sometimes even contains Windows code. I think we can assume an uninitialized ROM buffer in the tape conversion program and therefore consider these ROMs to be bad dumps. For all games exept Killer Satellites you already found the good dump. There are two ROMs that have some small changes in the game data too. Swords of Saros mostly differs in the unused bytes but also has one bit in the game code different. The normal ROM has the corect checksum for that part of the ROM, while the [a] version doesn't have checksums at all. Therefore I think we should consider the [a] version a bad dump. "Escape from the Mindmaster part 4 of 4" only differs in some bytes in the used part of the ROM. I haven't checked what that data table is used for in the game, but the normal ROM has all correct checksums, while the checksum for that part of the ROM doesn't match in the [a] binary. So it's most likely a bad dump too. So, For Killer Satellites you should keep the [a] version while for all other games you should remove the [a] ROMs. Many thanks, Eckhard. One thing: Please correct me if I'm wrong, but both the [a1] and [a2] versions of The Official Frogger and Dragonstomper can be removed, right? Edited October 29, 2008 by Rom Hunter Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eckhard Stolberg Posted October 30, 2008 Share Posted October 30, 2008 Please correct me if I'm wrong, but both the [a1] and [a2] versions of The Official Frogger and Dragonstomper can be removed, right? That's correct. Both alternate version for those games are bad dumps. Ciao, Eckhard Stolberg Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rom Hunter Posted October 30, 2008 Share Posted October 30, 2008 (edited) Thanks, Eckhard. Well, that leaves me with a few prototype ROMs that were not in Tempest's posted zip: Dumbo__s_Flying_Circus__1983___Atari__Peter_C._Niday___CX26115___Prototype___PAL_.bin Sinistar__1984___Atari__Tod_Frye___CX26122___Prototype_.bin Taz__Tazz___1983___Atari__Jerome_Domurat__Steve_Woita___CX2699___Prototype_.bin RealSports_Tennis__1982___Atari___GCC___CX2680___Prototype_.bin Notice the 1982 copyright on the RealSports Tennis titlescreen. These are not described on Atariprotos either (they should be IMO, just like Words-Attack and the Bear Game btw). Any further (date) info on these four? Edited October 30, 2008 by Rom Hunter Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Omegamatrix Posted October 31, 2008 Author Share Posted October 31, 2008 The Dumbo rom is the one Dino dumped. It has differences in scanlines caused by different values loaded into the timer. This proto is more finished then the other PAL version out there because the scanlines are at a constant 312. LF024: STA WSYNC DEX BNE LF024 STX VSYNC LDA #$35; old value was #$20 STA TIM64T more code... @$F073 STA WSYNC LDA #$02 STA VBLANK LDA #$2B; old value was #$20 STA TIM64T Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Omegamatrix Posted October 31, 2008 Author Share Posted October 31, 2008 The Sinistar rom you showed doesn't start with the "Sinistar © 1984 Atari" logo, doesn't have the music playing, and has some enemy ships doing spiraling routines. The Taz rom you showed displays no title screen. I never played the games so there might be more differences. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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