Rom Hunter Posted November 11, 2008 Share Posted November 11, 2008 (edited) List of [a]lternate versions from third party company (non prototype) games: Mega Force (1982) (20th Century Fox Video Games, Douglas 'Dallas North' Neubauer) (11105) (PAL) [a] - One single byte is changed at $FFEF (from $00 in the original to $80 in the [a]lternate). My Golf (1990) (HES, David Lubar) (535) (PAL) [a] - ??? Private Eye (1983) (Activision, Bob Whitehead) (AG-034-04) [a] - The original version changes the reset vector to the 3rd byte for the 2nd bank. The [a]lternate version executes this superfluous instruction. Racquetball (1981) (Apollo - Games by Apollo, Ed Salvo, Bryson Park) (AP-2003) [a] - Could be an earlier version, because serves have a tendancy to go straight up, which provides better angles. Super Breakout (Paddle) (1982 - 1981) (Atari, Carol Shaw, Nick 'Sandy Maiwald' Turner - Sears) (CX2608 - 49-75165) [a] - A routine that handles the additional on-screen balls is missing a comparison+branch in the [a] version. Could be an earlier version. It would be nice to create a well documented list with descriptions of the differences (and perhaps also descriptions of their alternate cart releases), that could then be included in the ROM set. Fixed versions: Activision Decathlon, The (1983) (Activision, David Crane) (AG-930-04, AZ-030) [fixed] Astroblast (Paddle) (1982) (M Network, Hal Finney - INTV) (MT5666) [fixed] Bridge (1980) (Activision, Larry Kaplan) (AX-006) [fixed] Demon Attack (Death from Above) (1982) (Imagic, Rob Fulop) (720000-200, 720101-1B, 720101-1C, IA3200, IX-006-04) [fixed] Dodge 'Em - Dodger Cars (Head On) (1980) (Atari, Carla Meninsky - Sears) (CX2637 - 49-75158) [fixed] Dodge 'Em (Head On) (1980) (Atari, Carla Meninsky) (CX2637, CX2637P) (PAL) [fixed] Gas Hog (1983) (Spectravideo, Mark Turmell) (SA-217) [fixed] Space Invaders (1980) (Atari, Richard Maurer) (CX2632, CX2632P) (PAL) [fixed] StarMaster - Kommando Galaxis (1982) (Activision, Alan Miller - Ariola) (EAX-016, PAX-016 - 711 016-725) (PAL) [fixed] Superman (1979) (Atari, John Dunn - Sears) (CX2631 - 49-75152) [fixed] Described versions: Asteroids (1981) (Atari, Brad Stewart - Sears) (CX2649 - 49-75163) [no copyright] Asteroids (1981) (Atari, Brad Stewart) (CX2649, CX2649P) (PAL) [no copyright] Atlantis (1988) (Activision) (AIX-010) [different font] Commando (1988) (Activision, Mike Reidel) (AK-043-04) [different logo] Cosmic Ark (Reaction) (1982) (Imagic, Rob Fulop) (720104-1A, 720104-1B, IA3204) [selectable starfield] Cosmic Ark (Reaction) (1982) (Imagic, Rob Fulop) (720104-2A, IA3204P, EIX-008-04I) (PAL) [selectable starfield] Ghostbusters II (1992) (Salu - Avantgarde Software, Michael Buetepage) (460741) (PAL) [different tune] Lost Luggage (1981) (Apollo - Games by Apollo, Ed Salvo) (AP-2004) [no opening scene] Missile Command (1981) (Atari, Rob Fulop - Sears) (CX2638 - 49-75166) [no initials] Othello (1981) (Atari, Ed Logg, Carol Shaw - Sears) (CX2639 - 49-75162) [no grid markers] Othello (1981) (Atari, Ed Logg, Carol Shaw) (CX2639, CX2639P) (PAL) [no grid markers] Planet Patrol - Planeten Patrouilie (1982) (Spectravision, Spectravideo - Quelle) (SA-202 - 412.851 8 ) (PAL) [different spaceship] RealSports Soccer - Football - RealSports Soccer (1983) (Atari, Jerome Domurat, Michael Sierchio) (CX2667) [no opening tune] Space Invaders (1980) (Atari, Richard Maurer) (CX2632, CX2632P) (PAL) [different speed and colors] Space Shuttle - A Journey Into Space (1983) (Activision, Steve Kitchen) (AZ-033, AZ-033-04) [FE bankswitching] Video Life (1981) (CommaVid, John Bronstein) (CM-002) [higher sounds] Would like to know if the differences shown in red of Racquetball and Super Breakout can be noticed by playing both versions of each title. Also, I would like to know if any of the differences shown in red are actually fixes or not. Edited November 17, 2008 by Rom Hunter Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+Mitch Posted November 11, 2008 Share Posted November 11, 2008 For Space Shuttle I believe that FE bankswitched version was the original and the F8 bankswitched version was released as a response to compatibility issues with the 7800. Mitch Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rom Hunter Posted November 12, 2008 Share Posted November 12, 2008 (edited) Ok, I think it's fair to say that King Kong [a] and Pitfall II [a] do not need a specific description. Just the [a] addition will do for these. Edited November 12, 2008 by Rom Hunter Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Omegamatrix Posted November 12, 2008 Author Share Posted November 12, 2008 (edited) Hmmm. It's hard to call Space Shuttle "fixed" when it's really not broken. They just changed it from the bankswitch method. Switching due to incompatibilty issues is just our theory. You might as well call Robot Tank "broken" and both versions of Decathlon broken then because they also use FE. Space shuttle is better described as (F8 bankswithcing) and respectively (FE bankswitching) IMO. Edited November 12, 2008 by Omegamatrix Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rom Hunter Posted November 12, 2008 Share Posted November 12, 2008 I prefer not to use difference descriptions that are not really visible for the player. BTW: are there any F8 bankswitching versions of Robot Tank and Decathlon known to exist? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Omegamatrix Posted November 12, 2008 Author Share Posted November 12, 2008 I prefer not to use difference descriptions that are not really visible for the player. BTW: are there any F8 bankswitching versions of Robot Tank and Decathlon known to exist? NTSC, no. I think there might be a Decathlon that was converted by HES. The player does see a visible difference on some 7800's with Robot Tank, Decathlon, and Space Shuttle. Effects may vary. In regards to those differences I think they are just as valid information as the name, earlier working names, year, company, programmer, serial number, and whatever else you got packed in the rom title. I'm still not sure why you choose to add all that information to the rom as it is far easier looking it up on Atarimania. I do that all the time when I'm trying to figure out who programmed what, or who released what. It is also better going through the website as you can configure multiple search options in the advanced search. I know you are really fond of how the rom set is, but truithfully most of the stuff in there is better configured and left on Atarimania IMO. This is not meant as a hack either. I have no ill intentions. When I look at a particular rom I'm just concerned what the differences are between rom A and rom B. Unusal bankswitching schemes are important to note when they are beside another rom with a more "normal" bankswitching scheme. To me that is something that really has to be left in the title description. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rom Hunter Posted November 12, 2008 Share Posted November 12, 2008 (edited) I'm still not sure why you choose to add all that information to the rom as it is far easier looking it up on Atarimania. I do that all the time when I'm trying to figure out who programmed what, or who released what. It is also better going through the website as you can configure multiple search options in the advanced search. I know you are really fond of how the rom set is, but truithfully most of the stuff in there is better configured and left on Atarimania IMO. This is not meant as a hack either. I have no ill intentions. LOL Hell of a moment to bring this up, Omega. It took me almost ten years to gather and verify this info. Personally, I look things up using Z26 with X26 search machine (complete with AND and OR search function). It's ten times faster than using Atarimania and I can run the game instantly. When I look at a particular rom I'm just concerned what the differences are between rom A and rom B. Unusal bankswitching schemes are important to note when they are beside another rom with a more "normal" bankswitching scheme. To me that is something that really has to be left in the title description.Ok, I'll think about it. About Congo Bongo: there also seems to be a problem with running it on a 2600 Jr: http://www.atariage.com/forums/index.php?s...;hl=congo+bongo Could the found difference be the cause of that? If so, we have another [fixed] version. Edited November 12, 2008 by Rom Hunter Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eckhard Stolberg Posted November 12, 2008 Share Posted November 12, 2008 I prefer not to use difference descriptions that are not really visible for the player. BTW: are there any F8 bankswitching versions of Robot Tank and Decathlon known to exist? NTSC, no. I think there might be a Decathlon that was converted by HES. The player does see a visible difference on some 7800's with Robot Tank, Decathlon, and Space Shuttle. Effects may vary. There is a converted PAL version of Decathlon by HES, but it uses F6 bankswitching as the game had to be expanded to 16K. Ciao, Eckhard Stolberg Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rom Hunter Posted November 12, 2008 Share Posted November 12, 2008 (edited) Moved upfront. Edited November 17, 2008 by Rom Hunter Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thomas Jentzsch Posted November 12, 2008 Share Posted November 12, 2008 StarMaster - Kommando Galaxis (1982) (Activision, Alan Miller - Ariola) (EAX-016, PAX-016 - 711 016-725) (PAL) [a] - Contains slightly shifted code. The normal version has two new instructions (extending the vertical sync section by two lines) to the NTSC version. Those where probably inserted later to fix a picture instability on some PAL TVs. Therefore the [a] version is most likely earlier. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rom Hunter Posted November 12, 2008 Share Posted November 12, 2008 (edited) I see. Many thanks, Thomas. Edited November 17, 2008 by Rom Hunter Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Omegamatrix Posted November 13, 2008 Author Share Posted November 13, 2008 I'm still not sure why you choose to add all that information to the rom as it is far easier looking it up on Atarimania. I do that all the time when I'm trying to figure out who programmed what, or who released what. It is also better going through the website as you can configure multiple search options in the advanced search. I know you are really fond of how the rom set is, but truithfully most of the stuff in there is better configured and left on Atarimania IMO. This is not meant as a hack either. I have no ill intentions. LOL Hell of a moment to bring this up, Omega. It took me almost ten years to gather and verify this info. Personally, I look things up using Z26 with X26 search machine (complete with AND and OR search function). It's ten times faster than using Atarimania and I can run the game instantly. Yes, and you've done a very good job of it. The information is very valuable. I'm just saying why attach it to the rom when it is already duplicated on Atarimania? The info itself is not the question, I use a lot of it myself. Stuff that can't be told on Atarimania is which rom is "FE" and which is "F8". That is something that should be definitely attached to the rom. Leaving shorter names on the roms leaves more room for decriptions, if need. Fixed roms could potentiatly have a short blurb of what the fix is, i.e. Activision, Decathlon The (pole vault glitch corrected).bin Again its not meant as a hack. Just an idea. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rom Hunter Posted November 13, 2008 Share Posted November 13, 2008 (edited) Ok, about Congo Bongo again: According to DP: With a few systems, the game may inexplicably RESET itself upon reaching the second screen. And there also seems to be a problem with running it on a 2600 Jr: http://www.atariage.com/forums/index.php?s...;hl=congo+bongo Do these problems have anything to do with the difference that Nukey found? Edited November 16, 2008 by Rom Hunter Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+stephena Posted November 17, 2008 Share Posted November 17, 2008 I'm still not sure why you choose to add all that information to the rom as it is far easier looking it up on Atarimania. I do that all the time when I'm trying to figure out who programmed what, or who released what. It is also better going through the website as you can configure multiple search options in the advanced search. I know you are really fond of how the rom set is, but truithfully most of the stuff in there is better configured and left on Atarimania IMO. This is not meant as a hack either. I have no ill intentions. LOL Hell of a moment to bring this up, Omega. It took me almost ten years to gather and verify this info. Personally, I look things up using Z26 with X26 search machine (complete with AND and OR search function). It's ten times faster than using Atarimania and I can run the game instantly. Yes, and you've done a very good job of it. The information is very valuable. I'm just saying why attach it to the rom when it is already duplicated on Atarimania? The info itself is not the question, I use a lot of it myself. Stuff that can't be told on Atarimania is which rom is "FE" and which is "F8". That is something that should be definitely attached to the rom. Leaving shorter names on the roms leaves more room for decriptions, if need. Fixed roms could potentiatly have a short blurb of what the fix is, i.e. Activision, Decathlon The (pole vault glitch corrected).bin That's sort of what I do when I integrate RomHunters info into Stella. I extract all the technical stuff from a filename and insert it into the ROM properties. Then I shorten the name. This results in shorter, easier to read names, while at the same time allowing the extra info to be viewed in the ROM Info viewer (which currently shows a snapshot and some ROM properties). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rom Hunter Posted November 17, 2008 Share Posted November 17, 2008 Perfect solution, Stephena. I will PM you as soon as my V4 collection goes online. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nukey Shay Posted November 17, 2008 Share Posted November 17, 2008 Ok, about Congo Bongo again: According to DP: With a few systems, the game may inexplicably RESET itself upon reaching the second screen. And there also seems to be a problem with running it on a 2600 Jr: http://www.atariage.com/forums/index.php?s...;hl=congo+bongo Do these problems have anything to do with the difference that Nukey found? The only difference I found between the 2 roms you posted in the zip is that one of them has the powerup vector moved. Rather than pointing right at the boot sequence, the game jumps there indirectly through the generic bankswitch routine. This difference only happens on powerup, and is invisible to the user. An ingame reset would have to be caused by something else (such as accidentally hitting a BRK instruction...which would reboot the game)...and should be common to both versions, since nothing else varies between the two. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rom Hunter Posted November 17, 2008 Share Posted November 17, 2008 (edited) Many thanks, Nukey. Just [a] it will be. Only five ROMs left: Last__a_lternate_ROMs.zip Mega Force (1982) (20th Century Fox Video Games, Douglas 'Dallas North' Neubauer) (11105) (PAL) [a] - One single byte is changed at $FFEF (from $00 in the original to $80 in the [a]lternate). My Golf (1990) (HES, David Lubar) (535) (PAL) [a] - ??? Private Eye (1983) (Activision, Bob Whitehead) (AG-034-04) [a] - The original version changes the reset vector to the 3rd byte for the 2nd bank. The [a]lternate version executes this superfluous instruction. Racquetball (1981) (Apollo - Games by Apollo, Ed Salvo, Bryson Park) (AP-2003) [a] - Could be an earlier version, because serves have a tendancy to go straight up, which provides better angles. Super Breakout (Paddle) (1982 - 1981) (Atari, Carol Shaw, Nick 'Sandy Maiwald' Turner - Sears) (CX2608 - 49-75165) [a] - A routine that handles the additional on-screen balls is missing a comparison+branch in the [a] version. Could be an earlier version. If someone can tell me if the differences (of one of both versions) are truly fixes, I would very much appreciate it. Edited November 17, 2008 by Rom Hunter Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thomas Jentzsch Posted November 17, 2008 Share Posted November 17, 2008 Not sure if you got that info already, but: "Boom Bang (AKA Crackpots) (HES) (PAL).bin" also contains "Motocross" "Challenge (HES) (PAL).bin" also contains "Surfer's Paradise" "Wall Defender (AKA Wall Break) (HES) (PAL).bin" also contains "Planet Patrol" Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rom Hunter Posted November 18, 2008 Share Posted November 18, 2008 Yep, I know. Thanks, Thomas. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rom Hunter Posted December 4, 2008 Share Posted December 4, 2008 Ok, any idea about the last five [a]lternate ROMs in post #642? Are these truly fixed versions? Also, what's up with My Golf? What exactly are the differences? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
user42 Posted December 17, 2008 Share Posted December 17, 2008 Just bumping the thread...(I really want to see the new rom set released ) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rom Hunter Posted December 17, 2008 Share Posted December 17, 2008 (edited) Patience. I'm still waiting on a final check of last five ROMs in post #642 Thomas, Any idea about My Golf? Is it truly an [a]lternate version? Edited December 17, 2008 by Rom Hunter Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Omegamatrix Posted December 17, 2008 Author Share Posted December 17, 2008 Patience. I'm still waiting on a final check of last five ROMs in post #642 Thomas, Any idea about My Golf? Is it truly an [a]lternate version? Patience is a virtue. I started disassembling it, but give me a couple of days until I'm done school. Some of these take a lot of work. @Rom, did you remove the bad dump of the diagnostic test cart? You never really said nothing about that. The one Mitch dumped is good. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rom Hunter Posted December 17, 2008 Share Posted December 17, 2008 (edited) I have these two: Diagnostic_Test_Cartridge_2.6__1982___Atari___MA017600_.bin Diagnostic_Test_Cartridge_2.6__1982___Atari___MA017600___a_.bin The last one is a bad dump, right? Edited December 17, 2008 by Rom Hunter Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Omegamatrix Posted December 18, 2008 Author Share Posted December 18, 2008 The last one is a bad dump, right? Correct! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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