2600 Rom Comparisions and Dumps

[Omegamatrix]

Robin Hood

 

file 1: Robin Hood (1983) (Xonox - K-Tel Software) (99005, 6220, 6250) (PAL).bin
file 2: Robin_Hood (1983) (Xonox - K-Tel Software) (99005, 6220, 6250) (PAL) [a].bin
	 1	 2
0FF9	FF	00
1FF8	FF	00

 

 

I'm wondering if this has to do with how it was dumped?

[Omegamatrix]

International Soccer has a similar problem with $00 at the end of the code. With this and Robin Hood a disassembly will need to be done to see if anything is calling that part of the code like we saw in Wizard.

 

file 1: International Soccer (1982) (M Network, Kevin Miller) (MT5687).bin
file 2: International Soccer (1982) (M Network, Kevin Miller) (MT5687) [a].bin
	 1	 2
0FFF	F3	00

[Omegamatrix]

Super Breakout will need a disassembly too. HOM3 is showing 2,022 differences, but this is misleading. It compares the code bit by bit at every address and displays the result if it is not the same.

 

 

For example you insert one more line of code and compile the source code. This might shift down the next thousand lines in the binary, but all that is different is that one line, not 1,001 lines.

[Rom Hunter]

I see.

 

I will keep them in.

 

Thanks, Omega.

 

[Omegamatrix]

Right now I am very interested in what is the difference in versions of Commando, Dig Dug, Jr. Pac-Man and River Raid II (all 16k NTSC games with [a] versions) - does anyone know about bugfix releases of these games?

 

EDIT: Judging by all the 0xFFs in the Dig Dug [a], I think someone playing it long enough might run across a difference... is this the prototype? http://www.atariprotos.com/2600/software/digdug/digdug.htm

 

EDIT2: The only difference between Jr. PacMan and Jr. PacMan [a] is that in [a] unused ROM spaces are 0x00 while in the base they are 0xFF. Thus, I believe Jr. Pac Man is actually the Final NTSC version prototype: http://www.atariprotos.com/2600/software/j...an/jrpacman.htm

while Jr. PacMan [a] is the real-deal ROM cart version.

 

EDIT3: There are (at least) differences in some of the startup vectors of the River Raid II versions. No idea which is correct, or if both are right.

 

I'm really beginning to hate these superchip carts. Depending on how I dump them I can get 4 different versions for each cart, and that is without an eprom reader!

 

The differences come from:

 

Read the ram, read the hotspot

Read the ram, ignore the hotspot

Ignore the ram, read the hotspot

Ignore the ram, ignore the hotspot

 

With Jr. Pac-Man I was able to 100% match:

Jr. Pac-Man (1984) (Atari - GCC, Ava-Robin Cohen) (CX26123).bin

Jr. Pac-Man (1984) (Atari - GCC, Ava-Robin Cohen) (CX26123) [a].bin

with my Jr. Pac-Man cart, as well as two more alternate versions. That's right 4 versions total from one cart. What a headache, eh? The problem becomes which one do you use? The answer is you can use any of them as they are all functionally 100% the same. I'm really on the fence of what to do with hotspots. Ignore them and write $00, or tried to read them as a "best guess". With ram it should always be ignored.

 

Ram should be ignored because it is unpredictable, reading the hotspot can be tried, but like Eckhard said you can never be sure if it is read correctly. Reading an eprom directly would work for hotspots, because the bankswitching logic is done with extra chips, and you could bypass all of them and read the chip directly. With proms the bankswitching is built inside the chip so you have to deal with it. Eckhard originally wrote the Dev software ignoring the hotspot as it doesn't matter what code is there, and you can never be 100% sure if read it is true. His later software is more reliable with reading the hotspot, which is what I use, but again you can never be 100% sure it is true. It is really a moot point anyhow as it doesn't matter what is there, but I like to get as "close" as I can.

 

To see how screwy ram can be I dumped Dig Dug. It is a superchip game as well, and I soon had my 4 different versions from the same cart. The problem was none of them 100% matched:

Dig Dug (1983) (Atari - GCC, Doug Macrae) (CX2677).bin

Dig Dug (1983) (Atari - GCC, Doug Macrae) (CX2677) [a].bin

Yet when I did a (quick) look the differences seemed to be in the ram and hotspots. So all six, yes six versions (2 from V2 of Rom's roms, and 4 from my cart) are 100% functionally the same. This does make a stronger case for ignoring the ram, and ignoring the hotspot.

[Rom Hunter]

Please don't bother about this, Omega.

 

I will simply leave them in.

 

I'm content with the cleaned up collection as it is now.

 

Thanks to you and Hornpipe2.

 

[Hornpipe2]

I know you said you're done with this, BUT! I took another look at Commando with HOM3 (what a great tool!) and found a difference you may be interested in. The only change between the two versions is:

 

Commando (1988) (Activision, Mike Reidel) (AK-043-04).bin has a Data East logo and

Commando (1988) (Activision, Mike Reidel) (AK-043-04) [a].bin has a Capcom logo.

 

I can't figure out how to get either one to display in-game though.

 

EDIT: Also what's up with Moon Patrol (1982) (Shock Vision).bin ?

EDIT2: fixed

Edited May 14, 2008 by Hornpipe2

[Rom Hunter]

EDIT: Also what's up with Moon Patrol (1982) (Shock Vision).bin ?

Beats me.

 

Looks like a bad dump.

 

Shock Vision is supposed to be NTSC too.

 

Thanks for the Commando info.

 

[Hornpipe2]

EDIT: Also what's up with Moon Patrol (1982) (Shock Vision).bin ?

Beats me.

 

Looks like a bad dump.

 

Shock Vision is supposed to be NTSC too.

Yeah, no idea. I split it into two 8k and neither half plays... Weird. I wonder how we know this is Moon Patrol at all?

[Rom Hunter]

Stella.pro

 

1982 is complete BS too.

 

[Omegamatrix]

Space_Shuttle__FE_Bankswitching__NTSC.bin

 

Space Shuttle (FE Bankswitching) NTSC. This one really surprised me and you can read more about it here:

 

 

http://www.atariage.com/forums/index.php?s...125799&st=0

 

Big, huge thanks to Shadow460, and Mitch who made this possible. Please note that you will have to manually force it to FE bankswitching in Z26 to work, but the newer versions of Stella should auto-detect it as FE bankswitching right away. If you have an older version of Stella again force it FE bankswitching so that it recognizes it.

 

Note Stella has an emulator glitch which shows a half white bar line in the scrolling display. This does not appear in the Z26 emulator or on real hardware. It was tested on real hardware by Mitch with a Cuttle Cart 2 (Krok carts do not support FE bankswitching) and it works. So it was independently dumped then by two different people, and their dumps matched each others 100%, and the rom was tested out and found to be working on real hardware. Phew... just read about it in the link.

 

Now concerning the carts that contain the FE rom, it seems that the older versions of Space Shuttle (NTSC) switched to F8 bankswitching for whatever reason. Was it compatibilty issues with the 7800? Who knows, but I did dump all these and just got your everyday, boring, F8 bankswitching.

 

 

The FE bankswitched rom belongs to the earlier picture label carts. These text labels were later releases by Activision. I wonder if there is a regular F8 bankswitched PAL Space Shuttle out there waiting to be dumped? Anyone know?

Edited May 21, 2008 by Omegamatrix

[Omegamatrix]

I know you said you're done with this, BUT! I took another look at Commando with HOM3 (what a great tool!) and found a difference you may be interested in. The only change between the two versions is:

 

Commando (1988) (Activision, Mike Reidel) (AK-043-04).bin has a Data East logo and

Commando (1988) (Activision, Mike Reidel) (AK-043-04) [a].bin has a Capcom logo.

 

I can't figure out how to get either one to display in-game though.

 

EDIT: Also what's up with Moon Patrol (1982) (Shock Vision).bin ?

EDIT2: fixed

Yeah HOM3 is the best thing since sliced bread. Maybe better. You can split files, join files, compare files (and save a text files of differences), look at the the actual bits and edit them, etc...

 

What I find useful too is you can search for strings of code with ease like 85,00,85,C8 and it will take you right to that sequence if it exists. You can also open the color palattes for PAL and NTSC. Actually it can do so much it is hard to find what it can't do.

 

 

My other favorite tool is the debugger in Stella. It's so nice looking at what is being loaded when and where, and you can follow along in the code as instructions are being executed. I think PCAE has something similar, but Stella's is very nice indeed. And I love Distella, Clonespy, Crimson Editor, X26, Bithacker and all the rest.

Edited May 21, 2008 by Omegamatrix

[+Propane13]

Based on the Space Shuttle dump, could there be other ROMs that have such a differentiation?

The other games that have 7800 issues include:

- Robot Tank

- Decathlon

just to name a few. So, maybe the same thing happened with these?

I know my versions of Decathlon and Robot Tank work fine on my 7800.

 

-John

[Omegamatrix]

I checked my blue label Robot Tank after all this, but it was still FE. I also dumped a white label Decathlon before and it was still FE, although a fixed version. There may still be a F8 version of these who knows. I do find it strange that Activision would just change this one game, but maybe it just gave more problems then the other FE games?

Edited May 21, 2008 by Omegamatrix

[Eckhard Stolberg]

Big, huge thanks to Shadow460, and Mitch who made this possible. Please note that you will have to manually force it to FE bankswitching in Z26 to work, but the newer versions of Stella should auto-detect it as FE bankswitching right away. If you have an older version of Stella again force it FE bankswitching so that it recognizes it.

 

The FE bankswitched rom belongs to the earlier picture label carts. These text labels were later releases by Activision. I wonder if there is a regular F8 bankswitched PAL Space Shuttle out there waiting to be dumped? Anyone know?

z26 automatically detects the FE version of Space Shuttle too, which means that the binary must have been available for quite a while already.

 

And while I dodn't have a text label PAL Space Shuttle to test, I know that the HES release of PAL Decathlon uses F6 bankswitching. Whether that was done to make the game work on the newly released PAL 7800 or just because it was easier for HES to manufacture carts with F6 bankswitching I don't know.

 

 

Ciao, Eckhard Stolberg

[Omegamatrix]

Oops my mistake about that. It did open automatically in Z26. I was trying a bad dump at the same time, lol.

[Hornpipe2]

Oops my mistake about that. It did open automatically in Z26. I was trying a bad dump at the same time, lol.

Off topic a bit, but my FB2 compatibility list says Space Shuttle won't run. Can someone try the FE and F8 versions on their modded FB2 and see if maybe the original tester had used one or the other?

[Rom Hunter]

It seems that Journey - Escape has two different versions too.

http://www.atarimania.com/detail_soft.php?...VERSION_ID=7350

 

Does anyone have the version without borders?

 

Edited June 22, 2008 by Rom Hunter

[Omegamatrix]

I took a look and I sold all my Journey Escapes cause it's a crappy game. Maybe Shadow has one.

[shadow460]

What's the bankswitching method? Wait a sec, I see what you're looking for. My copy has the red/blue borders at the top and bottom of the screen.

Flip the difficulty switch to A for red borders (and a harder game, I assume), B for blue. I think my old cart had borders, too.

 

If you still want that dump, I can do it, though.

Edited June 22, 2008 by shadow460

[Omegamatrix]

What's the bankswitching method?

-t264K

[shadow460]

Is there a list somewhere of all the bankswitching types and what game uses what? I've actually thought about dumping my entire collection (crazy, I know).

 

Here the Journey game, but I think it's the one Rom Hunter already has:

Journey.bin

Edited June 22, 2008 by shadow460

[Omegamatrix]

Yep, it is. Were you saying though that you get different colors on different hardware? I tried my Krok on a 4 switch and 7800 but the blue border was still there.

[Rom Hunter]

I don't get the red borders either.

 

The Journey video shows red borders too.

 

[Omegamatrix]

Is there a list somewhere of all the bankswitching types and what game uses what?

I believe (Kevin Horton?) did one. It was a long time ago though, and might be outdated. It is almost easier to just start with the games that use different bankswitching then Atari. Then there are the different versions of carts like we found with Space Shuttle.