HELP! Information on Red Sea Crossing?

[Lord Thag]

Besides, all that half of the people here have done so far is give nagn2 shit about this and doubt him.

 

Nonsense! Healthy skeptecism is more like it. I've never given the guy shit, and I don't think anyone else is either. Like Rick said, it's better to doubt and then be proven wrong than watch some poor sap spend three grand on a fake. Antiques are regularly submitted to intense scrutiny before auction to prevent anyone from being sold a fake. That's what we're doing here. It's not shit, it's what most serious collectors do. If I'm wrong about it, than I'll be the first to admit it, but the community has nothing to apologize for.

 

I even said in my last post that I hope I'm wrong. I'm pretty sure I'm not, but I suppose I could be. Nagn2 is welcome to post here with more information. Hell, I'd love it if this was the real deal. However, there have been tons of scams over the years from that swordquest airworld fiasco to the guy who had nine Air Raids to, well, you get the idea.

 

By all means, keep giving us the info. Just understand that we're canny fish that don't bite on the first worm

[Rom Hunter]

Nonsense! Healthy skeptecism is more like it. I've never given the guy shit, and I don't think anyone else is either. Like Rick said, it's better to doubt and then be proven wrong than watch some poor sap spend three grand on a fake. Antiques are regularly submitted to intense scrutiny before auction to prevent anyone from being sold a fake. That's what we're doing here. It's not shit, it's what most serious collectors do. If I'm wrong about it, than I'll be the first to admit it, but the community has nothing to apologize for.

 

I even said in my last post that I hope I'm wrong. I'm pretty sure I'm not, but I suppose I could be. Nagn2 is welcome to post here with more information. Hell, I'd love it if this was the real deal. However, there have been tons of scams over the years from that swordquest airworld fiasco to the guy who had nine Air Raids to, well, you get the idea.

 

By all means, keep giving us the info. Just understand that we're canny fish that don't bite on the first worm

Although I still believe it's legit, I think the only way to really take away the doubts is to open up the cart and examine the code.

 

Edited September 23, 2007 by Rom Hunter

[nagn2]

Besides, all that half of the people here have done so far is give nagn2 shit about this and doubt him.

 

Nonsense! Healthy skeptecism is more like it. I've never given the guy shit, and I don't think anyone else is either. Like Rick said, it's better to doubt and then be proven wrong than watch some poor sap spend three grand on a fake. Antiques are regularly submitted to intense scrutiny before auction to prevent anyone from being sold a fake. That's what we're doing here. It's not shit, it's what most serious collectors do. If I'm wrong about it, than I'll be the first to admit it, but the community has nothing to apologize for.

 

I even said in my last post that I hope I'm wrong. I'm pretty sure I'm not, but I suppose I could be. Nagn2 is welcome to post here with more information. Hell, I'd love it if this was the real deal. However, there have been tons of scams over the years from that swordquest airworld fiasco to the guy who had nine Air Raids to, well, you get the idea.

 

By all means, keep giving us the info. Just understand that we're canny fish that don't bite on the first worm

 

 

I agree, I don't have any problem with people scrutinizing it. I have not taken anything personally. I would do the same thing in your shoes.

 

Just a few points: 1. I did not find the information on Steve Stack Inc. on the California website. 2. I did not find the link to the Steve Schustack in Florida. You guys did all that. All I did was use the information to call him. I knew at some point someone was going to have to call him. I didn't expect anyone to just take my word for it.

 

If you think about it I would have preferred not to have found this guy. It would have been better to have the cart looked at and verified that way...as you guys claim this can be done. By finding him, now there is a chance he has some and that would hurt the value of what I have. Even if he doen't have any, now someone might be more hesitant to shell out big money if there is any doubt more could surface. So my hands have pretty much been tied all the way through this.

 

So for you people thinking I might be smart enough to pull something like this off (really I would have to be a genius) I guess I would have to be equally stupid to play it out like this!

Edited September 23, 2007 by nagn2

[Omegamatrix]

I believe it's real. I just do, and I always seem to be the skeptic in these discussions. I think we are all a just a little bit paranoid that's all. I'm not looking at this as an item that's worth thousands of dollars. I'm looking at it like man, it's a new game and it might not ever be released! I *really* want this to be dumped so it's not lost forever. I'd buy a copy out of AA's store.

 

 

@ Nagn2 Have you thought about opening up the cart? Seeing the inside will help with clear photos.

[nagn2]

I believe it's real. I just do, and I always seem to be the skeptic in these discussions. I think we are all a just a little bit paranoid that's all. I'm not looking at this as an item that's worth thousands of dollars. I'm looking at it like man, it's a new game and it might not ever be released! I *really* want this to be dumped so it's not lost forever. I'd buy a copy out of AA's store.

 

 

@ Nagn2 Have you thought about opening up the cart? Seeing the inside will help with clear photos.

 

I have no problem with having it opened. I just don't know how to do it. I definately don't want to experiment and ruin the label or worse break the cart.

[nagn2]

How does opening it prove if it is old or new just by looking at it? People have mentioned reading the code. How is that done?

[Omegamatrix]

I believe it's real. I just do, and I always seem to be the skeptic in these discussions. I think we are all a just a little bit paranoid that's all. I'm not looking at this as an item that's worth thousands of dollars. I'm looking at it like man, it's a new game and it might not ever be released! I *really* want this to be dumped so it's not lost forever. I'd buy a copy out of AA's store.

 

 

@ Nagn2 Have you thought about opening up the cart? Seeing the inside will help with clear photos.

 

I have no problem with having it opened. I just don't know how to do it. I definately don't want to experiment and ruin the label or worse break the cart.

I understand. What you should do is get a hold of a couple of apollo carts to practice on. Spacechase should be pretty cheap and is the same style case. Maybe some Atari nut lives close by and can help? I'll see if I can make a demo here.

[SINGLE TOOTH]

But if I'm wrong and it's a fake, whoever is fucking around with us is going to be exiled from this community

I will seriously make that my mission if this indeed turns out to be a sick joke.

 

I've already put too much time and energy in this topic.

 

 

Uh-oh,

 

It appears Rom Hunter has lost some confidence....

 

Shushuck's demands are really starting to annoy me. I would like someone to examine the code for further verification.

 

<Insert Mustache>

[SINGLE TOOTH]

I believe it's real. I just do, and I always seem to be the skeptic in these discussions. I think we are all a just a little bit paranoid that's all. I'm not looking at this as an item that's worth thousands of dollars. I'm looking at it like man, it's a new game and it might not ever be released! I *really* want this to be dumped so it's not lost forever. I'd buy a copy out of AA's store.

 

 

@ Nagn2 Have you thought about opening up the cart? Seeing the inside will help with clear photos.

 

I have no problem with having it opened. I just don't know how to do it. I definately don't want to experiment and ruin the label or worse break the cart.

I understand. What you should do is get a hold of a couple of apollo carts to practice on. Spacechase should be pretty cheap and is the same style case. Maybe some Atari nut lives close by and can help? I'll see if I can make a demo here.

 

Make a video, and put it on youtube or something.

[Omegamatrix]

Video is done. I will have to get a Youtube I guess as it's two and a half MB's and the software seems to cap at 2MB's

 

 

Give me a few minutes.

[CPUWIZ]

I am gonna break my silence here for a second, I can stand this amateur crap.

 

This cart looks like a Wizard shell, which does not have screws in it, it's held together by plastic prongs. Wizard, and probably this cart, used Apollo boards. Many Halloween carts have the same printing error as this cart as well.

 

The board inside, will look like this... (can also be green)

 

* back to silence *

[+Nathan Strum]

I don't see why people are getting upset at the programmer.

 

For those of you who can actually remember back 25 years, think about some of the things you might have been involved with. Or even 10 years ago. Projects, hobbies or whatever, that you later became disinterested in and distanced yourself from. Maybe you created something for it - whether writing articles, creating artwork, making t-shirts, or somehow or other investing your own time and money into it.

 

Then, somebody calls you up and starts asking you about it. Asking you to revisit it. Dig up stuff related to it, if you have it. They found something you created, and seem intent on making copies of it. You're busy, and really don't have the time or interest in this anymore, and haven't for years. Maybe the reason is because your first dealings with it went badly. Maybe you lost money.

 

After 25 years, there are dozens of boxes of old junk in your attic where this stuff may or may not be. You really don't want to go digging for it, because whatever this is about isn't important to you anymore. Yet, you put hard work, time and money into back in the day, and don't really want people just copying your work however they see fit. It's still, after all, your work, and you don't know what's going to happen to it. Besides that, you might still be a little bitter that the whole endeavor originally went South on you, and you just don't want to revisit it.

 

You politely answer questions, hoping these two people, who for some bizarre reason are interested in something you completely lost interest in 25 years ago, will just go away. Maybe, you think, if that stuff is around, you'll dig for it some Saturday, and put it up on eBay for kicks.

 

I don't get why some people here think the programmer owes you the right to copy/play/remanufacture his game. If I was in his shoes, I'd be perplexed, and if people kept contacting me about it, I'd start to get annoyed, and just out of spite not allow the game to be copied. (And for what it's worth, I've had older work that I've done copied without my permission, and it absolutely infuriated me. I don't consider it an honor that people still like my work enough to copy it, I consider it being ripped off.)

 

Besides, there's always this, which seems to be overlooked a lot:

If people are genuinely interested in purchasing the game, he would sell any unsold cartridges he has at the right price, and would be willing to make more.

If he's willing to make more (or more likely, have more made), then Albert should be the one to contact him, and see about putting a limited run into the AA store. But I'd wait a couple of weeks, so it's not just one thing after another with this.

 

If the whole question of authenticity is the primary concern here, nagn2 should have someone trustworthy dump the cart, and have Thomas or someone analyze the ROM. Then it's preserved, documented, and authenticated (or proven a fake, which I really doubt to be the case). I don't think opening it is necessary to prove it's authenticity, unless the code is suspicious.

 

Anyway, getting all up in arms about this is pointless. At this point, only 50 cents has changed hands. It's not like this is something that a collector has invested thousands of dollars in, and now everyone is trying to figure out if he/she got ripped off or not.

 

The programmer owes us nothing. It's our hobby. Not his.

Edited September 23, 2007 by Nathan Strum

[Omegamatrix]

I am gonna break my silence here for a second, I can stand this amateur crap.

 

This cart looks like a Wizard shell, which does not have screws in it, it's held together by plastic prongs. Wizard, and probably this cart, used Apollo boards. Many Halloween carts have the same printing error as this cart as well.

 

The board inside, will look like this... (can also be green)

 

* back to silence *

I thought I cast a spell on you to keep quite? How dare you break the silence!

 

Wizard - Apollo - Panda shells are all one and the same. I've uploaded the video, but this processing might be a while (It's been 15 mins already and the video is small). I really don't like Youtube and some rat bastard stole my log in name so I have to be Omegamatrix1 on there. Bastard. Anyhow I will post it when it goes through eventually.

[CPUWIZ]

I am gonna break my silence here for a second, I can stand this amateur crap.

 

This cart looks like a Wizard shell, which does not have screws in it, it's held together by plastic prongs. Wizard, and probably this cart, used Apollo boards. Many Halloween carts have the same printing error as this cart as well.

 

The board inside, will look like this... (can also be green)

 

* back to silence *

I thought I cast a spell on you to keep quite? How dare you break the silence!

 

Wizard - Apollo - Panda shells are all one and the same. I've uploaded the video, but this processing might be a while (It's been 15 mins already and the video is small). I really don't like Youtube and some rat bastard stole my log in name so I have to be Omegamatrix1 on there. Bastard. Anyhow I will post it when it goes through eventually.

 

Incorrect, Wizard - Panda and Telesys. All Apollo carts I have opened, have 2 screws in them.

[Nukey Shay]

Given the fact that I haven't seen Albert post here and that nagn2 himself posted this morning asking if anyone had any more info, they're not exactly "handling" it are they?

Those things are IMO best NOT handled in public.

...as this thread illustrates, apparently When things move too quickly, you start hearing things like "intellectual property" and "no permission".

 

Albert DID post in this thread a number of times.

 

 

 

 

How does opening it prove if it is old or new just by looking at it? People have mentioned reading the code. How is that done?

Verifying authenticity is done through a number of things. What kind of chip was used? If it's not an easily-obtainable/programmable Eprom, it adds weight that it is genuine. The same goes for the board...is it something that an independant producer would have used? The program itself (via dumping the chip)...is it NOT using programming methods or "tricks" that were not known or commonly used at that time (it was stated that the programmer learned how to create a game by examining classic games at that time...so the program itself shouldn't be using any techniques that were not dreadfully common at the time).

 

 

As stated before...it's not "impossible" to forge a cartridge program and make it appear to be genuine. But it would be tricky for even an expert to pull off, and cover all the bases. Those with the ability could would be better off just creating new homebrews, instead of something that could blow up at any time due to evidence that does not follow.

[Omegamatrix]

Incorrect, Wizard - Panda and Telesys. All Apollo carts I have opened, have 2 screws in them.

Ah, I stand corrected. Thinking back I believe the shell I take apart in this video was originally Fast Food. It was a while ago though and has no labels now. Panda and Wizard bought their shells off Telesys correct?

Edited September 24, 2007 by Omegamatrix

[+Psionic]

Panda and Wizard bought shells off Telesys correct?

Well, I don't know if they actually got them from Telesys per se, but they came from the same supplier.

[PressureCooker2600]

 

theres a link to omega's video

[Omegamatrix]

Ya beat me to it, lol. That's what I get for eating supper.

 

As you can see there is nothing to it. All you got to do is use a little bit of pressure and do one side at a time. Don't just rip it open with all of your strength. Also note you don't happen to open it very wide to get the chip out and you wouldn't want too. Opening it too wide might crease the end label. Anyhow I apolgize for the crappy video quality. I don't have a tripod and no one was around at the time. Yet I think it's clear enough to see what to do.

 

~Omega

[nagn2]

 

theres a link to omega's video

 

 

Can you give me some names of some common games that are like this so I can see if I can do this without destroying anything? One big question for me. If I do get this opened and take pictures will that be definitive proof, or will it still leave doubt? I don't want to even consider opening it if it will still leave doubt!

[Omegamatrix]

 

theres a link to omega's video

 

 

Can you give me some names of some common games that are like this so I can see if I can do this without destroying anything? One big question for me. If I do get this opened and take pictures will that be definitive proof, or will it still leave doubt? I don't want to even consider opening it if it will still leave doubt!

A common game to try would be Fast Food. The definittve proof would be clear photos of the chip inside along with a rom dump to analyze. Believe me opening the cart is basic, and will only increase the value of your cart after the chip is shown. Just tug on the sides a bit and you will get a feel of the pressure. No worries.

[CPUWIZ]

 

theres a link to omega's video

 

 

Can you give me some names of some common games that are like this so I can see if I can do this without destroying anything? One big question for me. If I do get this opened and take pictures will that be definitive proof, or will it still leave doubt? I don't want to even consider opening it if it will still leave doubt!

A common game to try would be Fast Food. The definittve proof would be clear photos of the chip inside along with a rom dump to analyze. Believe me opening the cart is basic, and will only increase the value of your cart after the chip is shown. Just tug on the sides a bit and you will get a feel of the pressure. No worries.

 

It proves nothing, I have a red Lochjaw cart, that has that board inside (yes, it does really have Lochjaw on it).

 

The only thing that would prove anything, is a mask ROM, that or carbon dating on the label.

[Omegamatrix]

By the way here is what your shell looks like on the inside for reference (minus the circuit board). Note I even got the S-15.

 

[Omegamatrix]

It proves nothing, I have a red Lochjaw cart, that has that board inside (yes, it does really have Lochjaw on it).

 

I have a red Lochjaw too, but no box... I often polish it with Armor All to maintain it's blood red gleam. Really brings out those hues.

 

 

[RangerG]

I recommend letting someone knowledgeable open the cart (like CPUWIZ if he agrees). Just tonight I opened a Telesys cart and the little circle tab in the middle broke (it was already really loose). It would be a shame to mess up the label or the cart. Personally, I can't see why anyone would spend hours making a fake cart and putting together a story to go along with it all in the hopes of making $. There are easier ways to make money.