Fröhn Posted April 16, 2009 Share Posted April 16, 2009 119 colors on that one! That's because PAL emulation is required to view it in an emulator. On a real monitor you won't get those "true" 16 or 128 colors because a lot of color mixing happens in the PAL decoder. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
youki Posted April 16, 2009 Share Posted April 16, 2009 All those picture looks great, but here there is 29 colors... who can do more? when i count color in your snap , there are 7931 colors. It seems a graphic filter (may put by the emulator?) has been apply on it. That is caused by resizing the image. If you view the image at 100%, there are exactly 29 colors. oups..you're right! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Allas Posted April 16, 2009 Share Posted April 16, 2009 All those picture looks great, but here there is 29 colors... who can do more? when i count color in your snap , there are 7931 colors. It seems a graphic filter (may put by the emulator?) has been apply on it. Only have 29 colors, however you have here the xexcutable, http://atari.fandal.cz/detail.php?files_id=5980 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Allas Posted April 16, 2009 Share Posted April 16, 2009 (edited) All those picture looks great, but here there is 29 colors... who can do more? Yup nice picture. I also liked the one from the Recall demo. By alternating 2 colors of the same luminance you can mix the chrominance on a PAL monitor. This can be done on C64 too since it has 7 pairs of same-luma-but-different-chroma colors. Here's a picture which uses that PAL feature: On A8 that features is also possible (that's why the 256 color mode works) but for normal palette it's not as useful because you can select chroma for each luma anyway. Good, but personally, i don't take serious this type of trick (on Atari and C64), because only works on PAL or NTSC (artifacts can do 18 fixed colors in 320x200 on Atari) and worse, those tricks not work on real LCD monitors of today. Edited April 16, 2009 by Allas Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fröhn Posted April 16, 2009 Share Posted April 16, 2009 (edited) Good, but personally, i don't take serious this type of trick (on Atari and C64), because only works on PAL or NTSC (artifacts can do 18 fixed colors in 320x200 with artifacts) and worse, those tricks not work on real LCD monitors of today. It's a PAL only trick and it also works on an LCD screen. It's an effect which happens during PAL decoding, not during displaying. Edited April 16, 2009 by Fröhn Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Allas Posted April 16, 2009 Share Posted April 16, 2009 Good, but personally, i don't take serious this type of trick (on Atari and C64), because only works on PAL or NTSC (artifacts can do 18 fixed colors in 320x200 with artifacts) and worse, those tricks not work on real LCD monitors of today. It's a PAL only trick and it also works on an LCD screen. It's an effect which happens during PAL decoding, not during displaying. Ok, but you need a PAL machine. I never have seen these type of pictures. If I bought a PAL C64, i'm sure (for previously experience) the screen will flicker at my eyes. For more fair comparative, close that emulation PAL option on emulator. Atari screenshots works with artifact display off too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wolfram Posted April 16, 2009 Share Posted April 16, 2009 All those picture looks great, but here there is 29 colors... who can do more? obviously the c64. without extra effort you have ugly 4 color or 16 shades of one color in huge pixels. the c64 can have both 16colors on highres picture AND many many sprites moving. A8 uses up its CPU and "sprite" resources, to come close to what the c64 does without using cpu or sprites. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
irwin Posted April 16, 2009 Share Posted April 16, 2009 All those picture looks great, but here there is 29 colors... who can do more? Commodore Plus/4 72 colors but Powrooz rules anyway Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
drac030 Posted April 16, 2009 Share Posted April 16, 2009 without extra effort you have ugly 4 color or 16 shades of one color in huge pixels. Don't even say "ugly" as long as you don't find a C-64 picture that doesn't consist mostly of violet and brown This really gets boring, man, everything C-64 fans bring as fine picture is violet-brown. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fröhn Posted April 16, 2009 Share Posted April 16, 2009 Ok, but you need a PAL machine. I never have seen these type of pictures. If I bought a PAL C64, i'm sure (for previously experience) the screen will flicker at my eyes. For more fair comparative, close that emulation PAL option on emulator. Atari screenshots works with artifact display off too. PAL is required ofcourse, but on the other hand on A8 for artifacting you need NTSC and for the 256 color mode you need PAL too. The PAL chroma mixing doesn't introduce any flicker. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wolfram Posted April 16, 2009 Share Posted April 16, 2009 without extra effort you have ugly 4 color or 16 shades of one color in huge pixels. Don't even say "ugly" as long as you don't find a C-64 picture that doesn't consist mostly of violet and brown This really gets boring, man, everything C-64 fans bring as fine picture is violet-brown. thats ur personal preference, the fact remains: the c64 displays nicer pictures while sitting idle than a8 using up all its resources like crazy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
miker Posted April 16, 2009 Share Posted April 16, 2009 Still ugly. The flowers are a bit better, though. @Irwin - no phone number for her?!? And now - here's some (ugly, eh?) example what to do with 2, 4, 5 (and such) colors. Feel free to commodorize it! Extract by Bit Busters. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Heaven/TQA Posted April 16, 2009 Share Posted April 16, 2009 without extra effort you have ugly 4 color or 16 shades of one color in huge pixels. Don't even say "ugly" as long as you don't find a C-64 picture that doesn't consist mostly of violet and brown This really gets boring, man, everything C-64 fans bring as fine picture is violet-brown. thats ur personal preference, the fact remains: the c64 displays nicer pictures while sitting idle than a8 using up all its resources like crazy. Wolfram.... the c64 palette is ugly... it might be the best choice of the range of colours but don't try to convince us who are used to 256 colours (16 colours & 16 lums) thanks... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Allas Posted April 16, 2009 Share Posted April 16, 2009 without extra effort you have ugly 4 color or 16 shades of one color in huge pixels. Don't even say "ugly" as long as you don't find a C-64 picture that doesn't consist mostly of violet and brown This really gets boring, man, everything C-64 fans bring as fine picture is violet-brown. thats ur personal preference, the fact remains: the c64 displays nicer pictures while sitting idle than a8 using up all its resources like crazy. That was funny, what do you want to say? Those C64 picture use all the graphical power, that a C64 can do. Simply, not use other resources, because whatever raster, hidden register, sprite trick doesn't collaborate with any color more after the 16th. That's all. Other way most of the C64 painting are using visual effects thanks to the great quality artist you have in your scene. Why not comparing more simple screens, as for example, game intro screens? This would be examine better the potential without "tricky visual effects" I'm not doubt you really like the C64 palette. After all these years seeing C64 pictures is natural. Spectrum users prefers a lot his palette color too, and I must to admit they have some really cool mixings. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThomSW Posted April 16, 2009 Share Posted April 16, 2009 Their 16 color modes are overrated. They are not that flexible for graphics as they are for colored 40-column text. yeah, this picture just prooves that: YEAH, LOL!!! Suitable picture on suitable comp made with suitable pallette and self-explanable, too! HAHAHAHAHA, LOL of the century fo sure! YOU CAN'T BE WRONG WITH COMMY... Here is your coffin - go lie there and never wake up. Ohhhh, tommorrow i'll get a commy or two or three or... hehe - in your dreams, twerp! Leave now... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
carmel_andrews Posted April 16, 2009 Share Posted April 16, 2009 (edited) Just to remind you Allas...A8 NTSC artifacting (or any A8 artifacting) isn't PAL friendly (hence why it was very rarely used on A8 PAL games (only two games comes to mind, Mastertronic's Panther even then it's only used for the score display and lives counter) The other game is Mastertronic's Amourote (whole display using Gr. Eight) Edited April 16, 2009 by carmel_andrews Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fröhn Posted April 16, 2009 Share Posted April 16, 2009 Just to remind you Allas...A8 NTSC artifacting (or any A8 artifacting) isn't PAL friendly (hence why it was very rarely used on A8 PAL games (only one game comes to mind, Mastertronic's Panther even then it's only used for the score display and lives counter)) And (as I said above) the 256 color mode too. It relies on the fact that the PAL decoder mixes chroma from one rasterline to the next. Doesn't work on NTSC. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
www.atarimania.com Posted April 16, 2009 Share Posted April 16, 2009 Just to remind you Allas...A8 NTSC artifacting (or any A8 artifacting) isn't PAL friendly (hence why it was very rarely used on A8 PAL games (only two games comes to mind, Mastertronic's Panther even then it's only used for the score display and lives counter) WTF are you talking about again? Panther was developed in the US by Sculptured Software... -- Atari Frog http://www.atarimania.com Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Heaven/TQA Posted April 16, 2009 Share Posted April 16, 2009 c64 palette is like the ZX Spectrum pallette... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wolfram Posted April 16, 2009 Share Posted April 16, 2009 without extra effort you have ugly 4 color or 16 shades of one color in huge pixels. Don't even say "ugly" as long as you don't find a C-64 picture that doesn't consist mostly of violet and brown This really gets boring, man, everything C-64 fans bring as fine picture is violet-brown. thats ur personal preference, the fact remains: the c64 displays nicer pictures while sitting idle than a8 using up all its resources like crazy. Wolfram.... the c64 palette is ugly... it might be the best choice of the range of colours but don't try to convince us who are used to 256 colours (16 colours & 16 lums) thanks... what you are used to is 4 color / monocolor / 16 shades of the same color screens, thats what the a8 can do, while the c64 displays 16. uglyness is a personal opinion. doesnt computes, and impossible to argue about. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
youki Posted April 16, 2009 Share Posted April 16, 2009 c64 palette is like the ZX Spectrum pallette... Few "ugly" c64 image with his "ugly" palette. Finally... i think i like what is ugly! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wolfram Posted April 16, 2009 Share Posted April 16, 2009 without extra effort you have ugly 4 color or 16 shades of one color in huge pixels. Don't even say "ugly" as long as you don't find a C-64 picture that doesn't consist mostly of violet and brown This really gets boring, man, everything C-64 fans bring as fine picture is violet-brown. thats ur personal preference, the fact remains: the c64 displays nicer pictures while sitting idle than a8 using up all its resources like crazy. That was funny, what do you want to say? Those C64 picture use all the graphical power, that a C64 can do. Simply, not use other resources, because whatever raster, hidden register, sprite trick doesn't collaborate with any color more after the 16th. That's all. Other way most of the C64 painting are using visual effects thanks to the great quality artist you have in your scene. Why not comparing more simple screens, as for example, game intro screens? This would be examine better the potential without "tricky visual effects" I'm not doubt you really like the C64 palette. After all these years seeing C64 pictures is natural. Spectrum users prefers a lot his palette color too, and I must to admit they have some really cool mixings. I'd like to see you talk my native language, and then maybe I could make fun of you... how come you never pick on emkay ? his english is bad enough if you want to find someone to pick on this.... to the topic: I am talking about the x-ray picture. that one does not use tricks. that picture dwarfes what the a8 can do without using the cpu or its "sprites". and here are some game intro screens: (default mode again, except the rasters) ...and yes I dont find the a8 palette pleasing, but arguing about a personal subjective preferencesmakes no sense. so lets just forget that, and your opinion about the c64's palette. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Heaven/TQA Posted April 16, 2009 Share Posted April 16, 2009 without extra effort you have ugly 4 color or 16 shades of one color in huge pixels. Don't even say "ugly" as long as you don't find a C-64 picture that doesn't consist mostly of violet and brown This really gets boring, man, everything C-64 fans bring as fine picture is violet-brown. thats ur personal preference, the fact remains: the c64 displays nicer pictures while sitting idle than a8 using up all its resources like crazy. Wolfram.... the c64 palette is ugly... it might be the best choice of the range of colours but don't try to convince us who are used to 256 colours (16 colours & 16 lums) thanks... what you are used to is 4 color / monocolor / 16 shades of the same color screens, thats what the a8 can do, while the c64 displays 16. uglyness is a personal opinion. doesnt computes, and impossible to argue about. Sure... but now after 100 of pages... I get bored of the fixed colour palette but 16 per screen vs 256 palette bla bla bla... when i was moving code over to c64 (Beyond Evil, Berzerk) I definitly missed the colour palette...matter of choice... and yes...matter of taste... but we are used to 160x200 resolution (as an example) while 20 year old guys think...what the hell are these big pixels? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Heaven/TQA Posted April 16, 2009 Share Posted April 16, 2009 c64 palette is like the ZX Spectrum pallette... Few "ugly" c64 image with his "ugly" palette. Finally... i think i like what is ugly! I like the 3rd one and the last 2 ones...but the others suffer from the pallette imho... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Heaven/TQA Posted April 16, 2009 Share Posted April 16, 2009 without extra effort you have ugly 4 color or 16 shades of one color in huge pixels. Don't even say "ugly" as long as you don't find a C-64 picture that doesn't consist mostly of violet and brown This really gets boring, man, everything C-64 fans bring as fine picture is violet-brown. thats ur personal preference, the fact remains: the c64 displays nicer pictures while sitting idle than a8 using up all its resources like crazy. That was funny, what do you want to say? Those C64 picture use all the graphical power, that a C64 can do. Simply, not use other resources, because whatever raster, hidden register, sprite trick doesn't collaborate with any color more after the 16th. That's all. Other way most of the C64 painting are using visual effects thanks to the great quality artist you have in your scene. Why not comparing more simple screens, as for example, game intro screens? This would be examine better the potential without "tricky visual effects" I'm not doubt you really like the C64 palette. After all these years seeing C64 pictures is natural. Spectrum users prefers a lot his palette color too, and I must to admit they have some really cool mixings. I'd like to see you talk my native language, and then maybe I could make fun of you... how come you never pick on emkay ? his english is bad enough if you want to find someone to pick on this.... to the topic: I am talking about the x-ray picture. that one does not use tricks. that picture dwarfes what the a8 can do without using the cpu or its "sprites". and here are some game intro screens: (default mode again, except the rasters) ...and yes I dont find the a8 palette pleasing, but arguing about a personal subjective preferencesmakes no sense. so lets just forget that, and your opinion about the c64's palette. Mayhem rocks... really Nintendoish... but the Iron Lord Screen? come on... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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