Heaven/TQA Posted June 23, 2009 Author Share Posted June 23, 2009 "invisible" klingon shield enabled... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Heaven/TQA Posted June 23, 2009 Author Share Posted June 23, 2009 oh...and another side story... it seems Jeff wrote the game on paper... as I found this in the code, too... lda $30,x or sta $30,x has been assembled to 3 byte commands instead of 2 bytes... so no gain here but using zeropage... (normally this would be assembled to 2 byte commands...) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Heaven/TQA Posted June 23, 2009 Author Share Posted June 23, 2009 (edited) rockets work... hole bug fixed. gridrunner.zip Edited June 23, 2009 by Heaven/TQA Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spookt Posted June 23, 2009 Share Posted June 23, 2009 (edited) rockets work... hole bug fixed. I've enjoyed watching this one "come to life". A couple of points on the latest build (I've only played on the emulator - not real kit yet) : 1) If I move to the extreme right of the playfield my ship disappears. 2) As soon as I loose a life the game stops. Can't wait to play it on my 800XL Just looked in the monitor and this could be the reason why things stop: Atari800MacX MonitorType '?' for help, 'CONT' to exit 0 1 323E: 4C 3E 32 JMP $323E A=01 S=f9 X=00 Y=00 P=-V*B--Z- > d 323e 323E: 4C 3E 32 JMP $323E Edited June 23, 2009 by spookt Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Heaven/TQA Posted June 23, 2009 Author Share Posted June 23, 2009 (edited) oops... debug code still in place... intermission screen fixed btw... try this build... ps. the "offscreen" is mainly caused by that I haven't applied the 22-to-20 patch which is needed... so the game runs still in vic-20 standard resolution (22x23). gridrunner.zip Edited June 23, 2009 by Heaven/TQA Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wrathchild Posted June 23, 2009 Share Posted June 23, 2009 Nice work! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Heaven/TQA Posted June 23, 2009 Author Share Posted June 23, 2009 played around little bit with the sound... someone with an idea how to quickly convert from vic to pokey? HOW MUSIC WORKS ON THE VIC As already mentioned, the VIC's speakers each cover 3 octaves, but together reach a total range of 5 octaves. This is because the VIC's 3 tone generators are "staggered" so the octaves of the different speakers overlap. A more graphic picture of which speakers cover which octaves and how they overlap is shown in the chart on page 99. Musical note values are shown below: TABLE OF MUSICAL NOTES +-----------------------------------------------------+ | APPROX. APPROX. | | NOTE VALUE NOTE VALUE | +-----------------------------------------------------+ | C 135 G 215 | | C# 143 G# 217 | | D 147 A 219 | | D# 151 A# 221 | | E 159 B 223 | | F 163 C 225 | | F# 167 C# 227 | | G 175 D 228 | | G# 179 D# 229 | | A 183 E 231 | | A# 187 F 232 | | B 191 F# 233 | | C 195 G 235 | | C# 199 G# 236 | | D 201 A 237 | | D# 203 A# 238 | | E 207 B 239 | | F 209 C 240 | | F# 212 C# 241 | +-----------------------------------------------------+ | SPEAKER | | COMMANDS: WHERE X CAN BE: FUNCTION | +-----------------------------------------------------+ | POKE 36878,X 0 to 15 sets volume | | POKE 36874,X 128 to 255 plays tone | | POKE 36875,X 128 to 255 plays tone | | POKE 36876,X 128 to 255 plays tone | | POKE 36876,X 128 to 255 plays "noise" | +-----------------------------------------------------+ 97 ~ The Octave Chart illustrates the three octaves contained in each speaker register. It also shows how several octaves overlap...for instance, the lowest octave of Speaker 3 contains the same notes as the middle octave of Speaker 2. Of course, the same note played on different speakers may sound slightly different... just as the same note played on a piano may sound slightly different from the same note played on a harpsichord. Also, some television sets and speakers may cause varying results in terms of tonal qualities. The Table of Musical Notes on page 97 is Intended to help you approximate note values in your computer program using the VIC. The number values are approximate only and may be adjusted by using values between those shown. MUSIC PROGRAMMING TECHNIQUES There are four basic parameters in programming music: 1. Volume 2. Speaker/Sound Register Selection 3. Note 4. Duration In other words, the things you have to consider when programming music are which volume to set, which speaker(s) to use, the notes being played by each speaker, and the duration of each note. Let's consider some techniques for putting these parameters in your program: EXAMPLE 1: MUSIC USING DATA STATEMENT 10 POKE 36787, 15 Set volume to highest level (15) 20 S2=36875 Set speaker to equal S2 (any variable) 30 READ N,D Read duration & note from DATA below. 40 IF N=-1 THEN Turn off speaker & end program at -1 POKES2,0:END 50 POKES2,N Play note N from DATA on Speaker S2 60 FORT=1TOD: Duration loop to set up time value. NEXT 70 GOTO30 Keeps going back to DATA list to get duration & note (N,D) values. 80 DATA 225,250,226 DATA statements...the first number 250,227,250,228, is the note from the note value chart 250,229,250,230, earlier in text, and the second 250,231,250,232, number is the duration the note is 250,233,250,234, played. 250,235,250,-1, -1 98 ~ VIC OCTAVE COMPARISON CHART +------------------------------------------------+ | S3 (36876) | | ---------- | | D O | | E C | | F T | | G A HIGHEST OCTAVE | | A V | | B E | | C 3 S2 (36875) | | ---------- ---------- | | D O D O | | E C E C | | F T F T | | G A G A | | A V A V | | B E B E | | C 2 C 3 S1 (36874) | | ---------- ---------- ---------- | | D O D O D O | | E C E C E C | | F T F T F T | | G A G A G A | | A V A V A V | | B E B E B E | | C 1 C 2 C 3 | | ---------- ---------- ---------- | | D O D O | | E C E C | | F T F T | | G A G A | | A V A V | | B E B E | | C 1 C 2 | | ---------- ---------- | | D O | | E C | | F T | | LOWEST OCTAVE G A | | A V | | B E | | C 1 | | ---------- | +------------------------------------------------+ 99 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ivop Posted June 24, 2009 Share Posted June 24, 2009 (edited) played around little bit with the sound... someone with an idea how to quickly convert from vic to pokey? HOW MUSIC WORKS ON THE VIC TABLE OF MUSICAL NOTES +-----------------------------------------------------+ | APPROX. APPROX. | | NOTE VALUE NOTE VALUE | +-----------------------------------------------------+ | C 135 G 215 | | C# 143 G# 217 | | D 147 A 219 | | D# 151 A# 221 | | E 159 B 223 | | F 163 C 225 | | F# 167 C# 227 | | G 175 D 228 | | G# 179 D# 229 | | A 183 E 231 | | A# 187 F 232 | | B 191 F# 233 | | C 195 G 235 | | C# 199 G# 236 | | D 201 A 237 | | D# 203 A# 238 | | E 207 B 239 | | F 209 C 240 | | F# 212 C# 241 | +-----------------------------------------------------+ | SPEAKER | | COMMANDS: WHERE X CAN BE: FUNCTION | +-----------------------------------------------------+ | POKE 36878,X 0 to 15 sets volume | | POKE 36874,X 128 to 255 plays tone | | POKE 36875,X 128 to 255 plays tone | | POKE 36876,X 128 to 255 plays tone | | POKE 36876,X 128 to 255 plays "noise" | +-----------------------------------------------------+ (frequency in Hertz are just numbers I picked, the exact frequency depends on the octave on the VIC-20) A 183 ~220 Hz (0) A 219 ~440 Hz (+36) (440Hz A is an international standard) A 237 ~880 Hz (+18 = 36/2) C 135 ~128 Hz (0) C 195 ~256 Hz (+60) (256Hz C depends on tuning of the 'instrument') C 225 ~512 Hz (+30 = 60/2) C 240 ~1024Hz (+15 = 30/2) So, it looks like the numbers relate nicely to frequencies, and are reverse from what we are used to on the Atari. That's easily solved by taking the two's complement of the numbers. After that, a lower numbers means a higher frequency, just like Pokey. For Pokey, the formula is: F_clock is either 64kHz or 15kHz v = F_clock / F_note / 2 - 1 The 64kHz clock is actually the CPU clock divided by 28. 15kHz is CPU clock divided by 114. e.g. on a PAL machine (braces for clarity): v = (1773447 / 28) / 440 / 2 - 1 = 70.97431 = ~71 NTSC: v = (1789772.5 / 28) / 440 / 2 - 1 = 71.636871 = ~72 I don't have the time right now to lookup a well-tempered tuning frequency table and correlate both chips to it, but it should be pretty easy to do [edit] OK, I couldn't resist VIC Atari 183 --> xor 255 --> 72 219 --> xor 255 --> 36 237 --> xor 255 --> 18 Basically, it's just 'xor 255' to convert from the VIC to the Atari. If it's not the right octave, shift left or right as needed. Edited June 24, 2009 by ivop Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rybags Posted June 24, 2009 Share Posted June 24, 2009 I suspect the VIC tone generators probably use counters that add upward and rely on overflow to trigger waveform transitions, similar to the way the C64 does it. If you found the proper formula, you could probably generate an Excel spreadsheet that translates between Atari/VIC AUDF values. Then again, I reckon the C64 version had some good SFX - would be cool to use some advanced Pokey techniques like filtering and 1.79 MHz mode to get saw/triangle waveforms. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Heaven/TQA Posted June 24, 2009 Author Share Posted June 24, 2009 thanks. I thought that we easily could recreate the sound fx. because the Metagalactic project showed that using RMT would not help either even when only using instruments... and we missed sometimes some notes... as all registers are $900a-$900d I can take them via VBL "overlay" and translate them to Pokey... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Heaven/TQA Posted June 24, 2009 Author Share Posted June 24, 2009 at the moment I am doing this highly complicated conversion written very tired... ;try to patch the sound lda $900e and #$0f ora #$a0 sta $d201 sta $d203 sta $d205 lda $900a;low channel #0 bpl sound1 and #$7f sound1 eor #$ff sta $d200 lda $900b;medium channel #1 bpl sound2 and #$7f sound2 eor $ff sta $d202 lda $900c;hi channel #2 bpl sound3 eor $ff sound3 sta $d204 rts Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spookt Posted June 24, 2009 Share Posted June 24, 2009 Just tried that last build and its getting pretty addictive! Great work. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Heaven/TQA Posted June 24, 2009 Author Share Posted June 24, 2009 (edited) spookt...not my work...you have to thank Jeff... btw. what are your thoughts compared to the 800 "original" version of Gridrunner? and I definitly will get Gridrunner+++ from XBLA when it is done... Edited June 24, 2009 by Heaven/TQA Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Heaven/TQA Posted June 24, 2009 Author Share Posted June 24, 2009 I suspect the VIC tone generators probably use counters that add upward and rely on overflow to trigger waveform transitions, similar to the way the C64 does it. If you found the proper formula, you could probably generate an Excel spreadsheet that translates between Atari/VIC AUDF values. Then again, I reckon the C64 version had some good SFX - would be cool to use some advanced Pokey techniques like filtering and 1.79 MHz mode to get saw/triangle waveforms. VIC sound and wave forms??? i doubt... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
emkay Posted June 24, 2009 Share Posted June 24, 2009 VIC sound and wave forms??? i doubt... The problem is more in the vbi programming. Many FX simply go to slow. But you may have a listen : fx.zip Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Heaven/TQA Posted June 24, 2009 Author Share Posted June 24, 2009 Emkay... they are not bad but my experience with RMT for VIC20 conversions regarding sound fx was not good... not sure if it was because of my sound wrapper triggering RMT fx or RMT itself... so that's why I am aiming this time for a more "direct" usage of the sound generators... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spookt Posted June 24, 2009 Share Posted June 24, 2009 btw. what are your thoughts compared to the 800 "original" version of Gridrunner? I played Gridrunner quite a bit on my XL back in the day (I had a 600XL first and it would run in 16K) and I always liked it but TBH I'm liking the VIC conversion better. I think the "chunkier" graphics work well for the game. Even though the playfield is bigger on the A8 version I think the VIC version plays better. I might do some head to head if it turns out to be a slow day BTW - I know you mentioned somewhere in the thread about posting some notes about the code etc. I'd be pretty interested to see that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
emkay Posted June 24, 2009 Share Posted June 24, 2009 (edited) so that's why I am aiming this time for a more "direct" usage of the sound generators... Which should be much easier than to produce them in RMT. Set pokey registers, start volume and pitch on the needed generators, and do some increase/decrease on the volume and pitch. For the reference you can use the RMT showing the registers... but independent from the VBI. Edited June 24, 2009 by emkay Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Heaven/TQA Posted June 24, 2009 Author Share Posted June 24, 2009 VBL vs direct CPU kernel which the game uses... VIC20 version does not use any interrupt. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
andym00 Posted June 24, 2009 Share Posted June 24, 2009 VBL vs direct CPU kernel which the game uses... VIC20 version does not use any interrupt. I'm just curious, but how comes it's not possible to directly map the 3 square voices and noise voice directly to Pokey voices, with some frequency translation lookup on each frequency write ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Heaven/TQA Posted June 24, 2009 Author Share Posted June 24, 2009 that would be the aim... if you tell me how the lookup table would look like... I am not a math guy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rybags Posted June 24, 2009 Share Posted June 24, 2009 Big football game happening here... means I'm "too busy". I'm pretty sure there's a good deal of sound range missing at the low frequency end if you're talking 64 KHz mode. Suppose there's always the option to use 16 bit voice too but then we're down to 3 voices available. I reckon a "virtual voices" system is the way to go... in the cases where 4 notes are needed you just have some sort of decision process to choose which sound gets dropped. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Heaven/TQA Posted June 24, 2009 Author Share Posted June 24, 2009 the game uses 3 channels.- and does not have many sound fx. channels used: 1 for the player shot 1 for the zappers 1 for noise fx so that's why I still think we can recreate the sounds without implementing a virutal sound system...maybe I take the XL version and have a look there... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rybags Posted June 24, 2009 Share Posted June 24, 2009 According to a doc I found... Frequency is calculated as follows... remembering the high bit of the Freq register turns the voice on/off, so we have 7 bits per voice Freqency resolution: Bass freq = Phi2/256/(255-F) Alto freq = Phi2/128/(255-F) Soprano freq = Phi2/64/(255-F) Noise freq f=Phi2/32/(255-F) PAL Phi2 clock is 1108404.5 MHz Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+Stephen Posted June 24, 2009 Share Posted June 24, 2009 (edited) spookt...not my work...you have to thank Jeff... btw. what are your thoughts compared to the 800 "original" version of Gridrunner? and I definitly will get Gridrunner+++ from XBLA when it is done... Heaven, Gridrunner+++ will not be coming to XBLA. MS has not returned any of Llamasoft's calls so they've spent the last few months basically rewriting the game as a PC only version. I'm at work right now so don't have the link handy, but if you go to YakYak and do a search for "The definitive GR+++ thread" you'll find all the details. BTW - I posted a link to this thread over at his forum. Hopefully it will generate a bit more interest in your conversions. Stephen Anderson Edited June 24, 2009 by Stephen Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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