opcode Posted April 11, 2012 Author Share Posted April 11, 2012 (edited) Ok, I just finished rev D, hopefully the final rev of the board. That includes the special controller port. I won't have time to prototype it until I am back from Brazil though. I also want to wait until I have rev B in my hands so I can make sure the changes I made on that were correct. Tomorrow I hope to start working on the MegaCart2. Dale is currently working on the SGM game catalog. It's already looking super cool. It is a huge 23x17" poster-like catalog. Once that is done he is get to the box. [EDIT:] BTW, do not forget to subscribe the pre-order list in case you haven't done so yet. Edited April 12, 2012 by opcode 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
opcode Posted April 12, 2012 Author Share Posted April 12, 2012 Pre-order list: http://opcodegames.com/lists/?p=subscribe Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
opcode Posted April 12, 2012 Author Share Posted April 12, 2012 It seems I talked too soon... The decision has been made, no special controller port in the SGM. Games that require a paddle/spinner (Arkanoid/Pole Position) will use the regular CV trackball and driving controller. Main reasons for discarding the controller port: - Extra cost to modify the existing SGM case - Extra cost of components, as well as increased probability of component failure - Confusion and extra cost caused by a separate line of non-standard controllers - Regular controllers are working just right in my tests So we are going with rev C board. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ColecoDan Posted April 12, 2012 Share Posted April 12, 2012 sounds cool, no need to make extra conrollers when we can use pre-existing controllers. Plus probably helps the timeline to not have to figure out a new revision Nice to see this project getting closer. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VectorGamer Posted April 12, 2012 Share Posted April 12, 2012 Pre-order list: http://opcodegames.c...ts/?p=subscribe I'm in... It seems I talked too soon... The decision has been made, no special controller port in the SGM. Games that require a paddle/spinner (Arkanoid/Pole Position) will use the regular CV trackball and driving controller. Does that spinner on the Super Action Controller work with anything? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pixelboy Posted April 12, 2012 Share Posted April 12, 2012 It seems I talked too soon... The decision has been made, no special controller port in the SGM. Games that require a paddle/spinner (Arkanoid/Pole Position) will use the regular CV trackball and driving controller. Main reasons for discarding the controller port: - Extra cost to modify the existing SGM case - Extra cost of components, as well as increased probability of component failure - Confusion and extra cost caused by a separate line of non-standard controllers - Regular controllers are working just right in my tests So we are going with rev C board. I'd say that's good news. The only downside is that working Roller Controllers are somewhat hard to come by, so a lot of people will be stuck with playing Arkanoid with the stock CV controller. But there are ways to make it acceptable, like having an option to limit the speed of the ball so that it never accelerates to the point where it's absolutely impossible to keep up with it using a stock controller. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
opcode Posted April 13, 2012 Author Share Posted April 13, 2012 Does that spinner on the Super Action Controller work with anything? It should. However the SAC spinner isn't that smooth, perhaps not the best option for Arkanoid. Driving controller should also work though. If necessary I can make a special controller, one that is compatible with the regular CV spinner, but it would be an option for those looking for a more precise controller, not a requirement. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pixelboy Posted April 13, 2012 Share Posted April 13, 2012 Does that spinner on the Super Action Controller work with anything? It should. However the SAC spinner isn't that smooth, perhaps not the best option for Arkanoid. Driving controller should also work though. If necessary I can make a special controller, one that is compatible with the regular CV spinner, but it would be an option for those looking for a more precise controller, not a requirement. Uh? The spinner on the Super Action Controller isn't smooth by any stretch of the imagination. Just try using it with Turbo and you'll see the problem right away. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
youki Posted April 13, 2012 Share Posted April 13, 2012 Is there now way we could Atari paddle controller with the CV? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+pboland Posted April 13, 2012 Share Posted April 13, 2012 (edited) Is there now way we could Atari paddle controller with the CV? Wouldn't you want to use the Atari driving controllers? I would think those would be the closest to the spinner control on the SA controllers. Just thinking out loud. I could be way off on this one. Of course the pin out on the Atari driving controllers may not match the CV, but how hard would that be to make a conversion/spliter cable (or box)? Edited April 13, 2012 by pboland Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pixelboy Posted April 13, 2012 Share Posted April 13, 2012 Is there now way we could Atari paddle controller with the CV? Wouldn't you want to use the Atari driving controllers? I would think those would be the closest to the spinner control on the SA controllers. Just thinking out loud. I could be way off on this one. Of course the pin out on the Atari driving controllers may not match the CV, but how hard would that be to make a conversion/spliter cable (or box)? Even if you were to build an adaptor of some kind, it still wouldn't work. The 9-pin connectors on the CV controller ports do not offer a 5V power pin. That's why the steering wheel controller requires batteries and also why the Roller Controller requires an alternate source of power via a separate cable. I'm assuming the Atari 2600 does offer power via the joystick ports, which makes the paddles controllers possible. This is the primary reason why Opcode wanted to add a multi-purpose port on the SGM to begin with. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+pboland Posted April 13, 2012 Share Posted April 13, 2012 Is there now way we could Atari paddle controller with the CV? Wouldn't you want to use the Atari driving controllers? I would think those would be the closest to the spinner control on the SA controllers. Just thinking out loud. I could be way off on this one. Of course the pin out on the Atari driving controllers may not match the CV, but how hard would that be to make a conversion/spliter cable (or box)? Even if you were to build an adaptor of some kind, it still wouldn't work. The 9-pin connectors on the CV controller ports do not offer a 5V power pin. That's why the steering wheel controller requires batteries and also why the Roller Controller requires an alternate source of power via a separate cable. I'm assuming the Atari 2600 does offer power via the joystick ports, which makes the paddles controllers possible. This is the primary reason why Opcode wanted to add a multi-purpose port on the SGM to begin with. Okay, so why not add a battery to the splitter box that I mentioned above? That too wouldn't be that difficult. Again, just thinking out loud. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+pboland Posted April 13, 2012 Share Posted April 13, 2012 (edited) Is there now way we could Atari paddle controller with the CV? Wouldn't you want to use the Atari driving controllers? I would think those would be the closest to the spinner control on the SA controllers. Just thinking out loud. I could be way off on this one. Of course the pin out on the Atari driving controllers may not match the CV, but how hard would that be to make a conversion/spliter cable (or box)? Even if you were to build an adaptor of some kind, it still wouldn't work. The 9-pin connectors on the CV controller ports do not offer a 5V power pin. That's why the steering wheel controller requires batteries and also why the Roller Controller requires an alternate source of power via a separate cable. I'm assuming the Atari 2600 does offer power via the joystick ports, which makes the paddles controllers possible. This is the primary reason why Opcode wanted to add a multi-purpose port on the SGM to begin with. Okay, so why not add a battery to the splitter box that I mentioned above? That too wouldn't be that difficult. Again, just thinking out loud. I started thinking about this again (I know, bad idea). Why do you need power? I don't know, maybe its a precision thing, but the spinner on the super action controller doesn't require extra power. I know the spinner isn't that precise, but if it can operate without power why can't a more precise spinner work without extra power? anyway I can't wait to see the finished SGM. Edited April 13, 2012 by pboland Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
opcode Posted April 13, 2012 Author Share Posted April 13, 2012 (edited) From the schematics it seems the Atari driving controller would work if we use an adapter. However the question is if it would be fast and precise enough. Not true, just checked.... Arkanoid requires very fast movement, and since we are basically detecting holes in a wheel or rotatory switches, we need those to be fairly dense, or have a large wheel that spin fast with mininum controller rotation: http://www.arcadiaba...em.aspx?id=2204 5V is required for the optical sensor used for detecting the spinner movement. Otherwise we would need rotatory switches, which aren't as smooth as the real Arkanoid controller or a paddle. BTW, the 2600 also doesn't have a 5V pin. Instead they used a pot for the paddle, and the decoding is done by the TIA chip. Edited April 13, 2012 by opcode Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+pboland Posted April 13, 2012 Share Posted April 13, 2012 From the schematics it seems the Atari driving controller would work if we use an adapter. However the question is if it would be fast and precise enough. Arkanoid requires very fast movement, and since we are basically detecting holes in a wheel or rotatory switches, we need those to be fairly dense, or have a large wheel that spin fast with mininum controller rotation: http://www.arcadiaba...em.aspx?id=2204 5V is required for the optical sensor used for detecting the spinner movement. Otherwise we would need rotatory switches, which aren't as smooth as the real Arkanoid controller or a paddle. BTW, the 2600 also doesn't have a 5V pin. Instead they used a pot for the paddle, and the decoding is done by the TIA chip. Just for the record, I'm not talking about the paddle controllers of the 2600. I'm referring to the driving controllers which are not pots but binary encoders. 5-11under in another thread was able to explain the spinner controller for me. Here's the link: Spinner control hook-up? From what I read it seems like a binary encoder. The atari driving controllers use a 16 position binary encoder. I do know that you can get 32 and 64 position binary encoders. Not sure if that matters, but I thought I'd mention it anyway. BTW, According to the info I've seen pin #7 on the atari 2600 is +5V. Is this incorrect? That is taken from here: http://old.pinouts.r...00_pinout.shtml Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
opcode Posted April 13, 2012 Author Share Posted April 13, 2012 I mean, we could have a custom controller with the game, but that isn't the point here. The point is that no matter what I will be supporting the regular controllers, and any new controller should work the same as the regular controllers (albeit faster and more precise). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
opcode Posted April 13, 2012 Author Share Posted April 13, 2012 From the schematics it seems the Atari driving controller would work if we use an adapter. However the question is if it would be fast and precise enough. Arkanoid requires very fast movement, and since we are basically detecting holes in a wheel or rotatory switches, we need those to be fairly dense, or have a large wheel that spin fast with mininum controller rotation: http://www.arcadiaba...em.aspx?id=2204 5V is required for the optical sensor used for detecting the spinner movement. Otherwise we would need rotatory switches, which aren't as smooth as the real Arkanoid controller or a paddle. BTW, the 2600 also doesn't have a 5V pin. Instead they used a pot for the paddle, and the decoding is done by the TIA chip. Just for the record, I'm not talking about the paddle controllers of the 2600. I'm referring to the driving controllers which are not pots but binary encoders. 5-11under in another thread was able to explain the spinner controller for me. Here's the link: Spinner control hook-up? From what I read it seems like a binary encoder. The atari driving controllers use a 16 position binary encoder. I do know that you can get 32 and 64 position binary encoders. Not sure if that matters, but I thought I'd mention it anyway. BTW, According to the info I've seen pin #7 on the atari 2600 is +5V. Is this incorrect? That is taken from here: http://old.pinouts.r...00_pinout.shtml Yes, incorrect, no 5V in the 2600 joystick port. Not sure if the A800 had it or not. The CV is a 2 bit rotary encoder: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rotary_encoder However using swiches makes the spinner very unsmooth. The proper way to do an Arkanoid controller would be to use an optical sensor. And perhaps some cogs, that would make the encoding disk spin faster. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
opcode Posted April 14, 2012 Author Share Posted April 14, 2012 I am doing some homework right now, thinking about the logistic of having the module manufactured. It isn't as simple as it seems. For example, the packaging should include quite a few pictures of the module, however we won't be able to take pictures until the mold has been manufactured. The prototype case isn't black, and even if it was, it doesn't have the proper finishing of the final case. Things like that. I need to think of all of that in advance in order to minimize the manufacturing time. Anyways, we have both the board and case done, and Dale is hard at work on the packaging. So it is time to start thinking about manufacturing. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pixelboy Posted April 17, 2012 Share Posted April 17, 2012 Main reasons for discarding the controller port: - Extra cost to modify the existing SGM case - Extra cost of components, as well as increased probability of component failure - Confusion and extra cost caused by a separate line of non-standard controllers - Regular controllers are working just right in my tests Are you saying that you did some tests with the Roller Controller and/or the steering wheel? Just curious. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
opcode Posted April 17, 2012 Author Share Posted April 17, 2012 Main reasons for discarding the controller port: - Extra cost to modify the existing SGM case - Extra cost of components, as well as increased probability of component failure - Confusion and extra cost caused by a separate line of non-standard controllers - Regular controllers are working just right in my tests Are you saying that you did some tests with the Roller Controller and/or the steering wheel? Just curious. Yep, I did with the roller controller, and it works just right. It is a bit slower than I would have liked (for the purpose of playing Arkanoid), but it works nevertheless. Again, in the worse case I can make a custom controller, but the point here is that I should stick with the regular CV spinner controller schema. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
opcode Posted April 23, 2012 Author Share Posted April 23, 2012 Quick update: I received board rev B while I was locking my apartment's door to leave to the airport on Wednesday. Because of that I didn't have the time to assemble it, and I won't be able to do that until I am back, but from my preliminary observations I think the board layout is just perfect now and it fits our SGM prototype case precisely. So unless we have some electrical or logical problem with rev C, we should be ok to start beta in June. Pictures soon. We have crossed the 100 pre-order names for the SGM. Dale is still working on the game catalog. Will start the box next. We are ready to start manufacturing the SGM name plate. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cimerians Posted April 23, 2012 Share Posted April 23, 2012 Pre-order list: http://opcodegames.c...ts/?p=subscribe I signed up. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RedRaider Posted April 23, 2012 Share Posted April 23, 2012 Count me in as well. I got my confirmation email last night. Man I freakin' love this place... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
opcode Posted April 27, 2012 Author Share Posted April 27, 2012 Corporate logos from the game catalog... 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
opcode Posted May 4, 2012 Author Share Posted May 4, 2012 Quick update: I am about to send a quote request to my manufacturer in China. Then we will know for sure how much the SGM's assembled PCB will cost. I also need to know who is going to take care of ordering the edge connectors, so I can prepare in advance. I just finished the Super Game Cartridge equations, and should start simulation soon. After that I need to finish the Super Game Cartridge PCB. Hope to have that done by the end of the month. Dale and Jess are hard at work to finish the SGM packaging. I am also working on a few 3rd party games, most of them related to the SGM. My plans are to order the SGM case mold next month. We need the final cases to be able to take some pictures of the SGM and finish the packaging. The name plates are already done and should go into manufacturing as soon as I get back from Brazil. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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