Wich one of these two Prince of Persia you prefer?

[José Pereira]

Let's start with converted GFX with walls of 2 colours.

GPRIOR set to PF0-PF1-PM-PF3-BAK

Missiles set to the stone colour could help with masking.

 

A very clever coder could do the moving objects with one PF and one Player, using the change of the background with one PF colour as a filter for the PMg.

 

 

Why?

Because it would be a 'lazy' coder that don't want to Mask the PMs on the Walls.

You can't get PRIOR there.

There are more than the number of Missiles with 5th Player enabled to add one more colour

You need White as PF0 to be on the Price sprite... There are other parts of the Gfxs. that are masking the Prince.

 

There are more than you think...

First have a soft sprite only routine... It would be the same as any other version and the coder have to do a simple Wall Masking on those 3byte wide Pillars.

There's an infinite number of games that does that in 'soft sprites only' Machines... Why not on A8? Because you or others just want to get things simple. Not simple, better saying is not bother in get the best.

 

Later add PMs.

Is this any trouble?

 

 

I hope that something with someone may run soon because I think I am spending very useful time answering your posts when I could be doing A8 sprites frames that would be usefull to someone...

[José Pereira]

Let's start with converted GFX with walls of 2 colours.

GPRIOR set to PF0-PF1-PM-PF3-BAK

Missiles set to the stone colour could help with masking.

 

A very clever coder could do the moving objects with one PF and one Player, using the change of the background with one PF colour as a filter for the PMg.

 

Just one and I hope the last time:

You will waste a PF as Black (same as Background register colour) just to Mask the guys?

Oh my God!... We only have 4colours (Black included), now you have only two colours because you waste one more Black.

And because you didn't see, for sure, the guys sprites frames you can't see that the Prince White clothe must be a PF.

This way you have:

2Blacks, 1White and only one colour more...

All the Rocks will be all in that one colour stupid/uggly dither...

Is that what you want?

I am totally/100% sure out to these kind of solutions!

Edited October 12, 2011 by José Pereira

[emkay]

The objects have to be set in byte width, so the pillars have to be drawn bigger...

 

 

So the Pillar can be restored as fast as possible.

 

The bright colour of the stones is one of the PF with the upper priority.

The dark colour has a lower priority than the PMg.

Even then, after drawing the Softwaresprite, you have to do workarounds, for the masking, to have no colour clash..

The darker colours could be set temporarily with the missile(s) in the front pillar, or Player 0, so no additional calculations for overlay was necessary.

[emkay]

 

 

Let's start with converted GFX with walls of 2 colours.

 

GPRIOR set to PF0-PF1-PM-PF3-BAK

 

Missiles set to the stone colour could help with masking.

 

 

A very clever coder could do the moving objects with one PF and one Player, using the change of the background with one PF colour as a filter for the PMg.

 

 

 

Just one and I hope the last time:

 

You will waste a PF as Black (same as Background register colour) just to Mask the guys?

 

Oh my God!... We only have 4colours (Black included), now you have only two colours because you waste one more Black.

 

 

 

Not waste.... exchange!

 

 

You know, when using one PF as background, you can simply use the PMg as shapes, to gain more colours and a more fluent movement.

 

 

 

 

And because you didn't see, for sure, the guys sprites frames you can't see that the Prince White clothe must be a PF.

 

This way you have:

 

2Blacks, 1White and only one colour more...

 

All the Rocks will be all in that one colour stupid/uggly dither...

 

Is that what you want?

 

I am totally/100% sure out to these kind of solutions!

 

 

 

Then you're out of any solution for a reliable PoP on the A8. Except that the stones could be built on 2 colours with dither.

Edited October 12, 2011 by emkay

[José Pereira]

Let's start with converted GFX with walls of 2 colours.

 

GPRIOR set to PF0-PF1-PM-PF3-BAK

 

Missiles set to the stone colour could help with masking.

 

 

A very clever coder could do the moving objects with one PF and one Player, using the change of the background with one PF colour as a filter for the PMg.

 

 

 

Just one and I hope the last time:

 

You will waste a PF as Black (same as Background register colour) just to Mask the guys?

 

Oh my God!... We only have 4colours (Black included), now you have only two colours because you waste one more Black.

 

 

 

Not waste.... exchange!

 

 

You know, when using one PF as background, you can simply use the PMg as shapes, to gain more colours and a more fluent movement.

 

 

 

 

And because you didn't see, for sure, the guys sprites frames you can't see that the Prince White clothe must be a PF.

 

This way you have:

 

2Blacks, 1White and only one colour more...

 

All the Rocks will be all in that one colour stupid/uggly dither...

 

Is that what you want?

 

I am totally/100% sure out to these kind of solutions!

 

 

 

Then you're out of any solution for a reliable PoP on the A8.

 

No I am not as you will see...

What sh... when you start beeing like this Emkay.

 

Some Nights ago there was a coder here saying it would be possible soft sprites and PMs. overlays, Masking,... and you were saying no.

Now the coder gone because he sure aren't for wasting time with you.

 

Now you are for PMs overlays, I think, but are destoying all the gfxs...

Oh my God!...

Why I can't resist to constantly answer you and waste my time when I have some things to do and send to a coder that if it works it would destroy your point of view!

 

EDIT: And more: I still didn't eat... It's more than time here to Dinner time (now it's 22:20)...

to eat, I hope!...

Edited October 12, 2011 by José Pereira

[emkay]

2 colour for the stones, 2 independent colours for the Prince, always one different colour for the enemies and on extra colour for the lights... all with fluent movement in 160x200 .

To me, this sounds just like something never been done before...

[emkay]

Some Nights ago there was a coder here saying it would be possible soft sprites and PMs. overlays, Masking,... and you were saying no.

Now the coder gone because he sure aren't for wasting time with you.

 

 

The coder's just gone , because he never intended to do something.

 

 

Now you are for PMs overlays, I think, but are destoying all the gfxs...

Oh my God!...

 

Not destroying, adjusting.

On the C64 you don't have to take care of it, because Sprite handling offers the solution.

On the Apple, the Pillars "ARE" 3 bytes wide, just in the dedicated way, the machine handles it.

 

Why I can't resist to constantly answer you and waste my time when I have some things to do and send to a coder that if it works it would destroy your point of view!

 

Because it wouldn't.

Show me ONE game that uses PM overlay, handling both types of masking (background & front) in a fluent way.

 

 

EDIT: And more: I still didn't eat... It's more than time here to Dinner time (now it's 22:20)...

to eat, I hope!...

 

Dinner, what is Dinner

[José Pereira]

2 colour for the stones, 2 independent colours for the Prince, always one different colour for the enemies and on extra colour for the lights... all with fluent movement in 160x200 .

To me, this sounds just like something never been done before...

 

I know I wouldn't eat...

6colours PFs?

 

Emkay stop this because you are just 'shooting out loud' and not shooted the right place.

I say that you go and see the game and load the guys sprite frames...

 

 

I have a clear and possible solution.

You have a 'blah, blah, blah,...' with nothing real, even a screenshot (I only see those Black and light Blue Dithered screens)

 

I have Tiles information and colours, all the frames into A8 on the way. You have the same hipotetical ideas of your Head.

 

I have someone that contact me and would, without promises, get something, even just a screen to show all and the proof that you're wrong, totally/100% sure you're wrong.

 

All Machines Mask things and you are lazy and just want to use PRIOR to mask things (PMs) when you still and always have to mask the soft sprites.

You're solution would be the best if we have, lets say 8PMs. istead of 4Pms., then the guys could be Hardware sprites.

 

 

On the older Thread there was coders saying that PRIOR wouldn't fit her and that they could Mask the guys.

You continue with your Ideas, good for you... Bad for all because we are all wasting our precious time: me in always answering you and others constantly enter here to read these 'blah, blah, blah,...'

I have to think, believe it's possible and keep repeat it: "I will not answer Emkay!", "I will not answer Emkay", "..."

 

"ME GO EAT NOW!"

Thanks.

[José Pereira]

DINNER like Lunch but at Night...

 

The C64 sprites sure are masked also in the Pillars Gfxs, because Pillars are the same as the Walls.. This is basic, the same as in Last Ninja.

there's no PRIOR here.

 

Emkay go reading something about these games on C64.

 

On the C64 the bit-Pairs are:

(00) Black

(01) Dark colour

(10) Middle colour

(11) Ligh Gray or White

As you can see I have some informations and not speculations.

Edited October 12, 2011 by José Pereira

[José Pereira]

Just one more:

The coder doesn't want to code isn't the reason he didn't know what he was saying!

You don't code and don't build anything but can give your opinions?

Who's don't want to do nothing?

[emkay]

Just one more:

The coder doesn't want to code isn't the reason he didn't know what he was saying!

You don't code and don't build anything but can give your opinions?

Who's don't want to do nothing?

 

You.

Start to add 1 & 1 , would be a good start. The result will be 2 . Not 11 , not 3 ....

 

 

The only common points of using Sprites and PMg is the low CPU usage, when using them straight.

The difference is that the C64 sprites will build a final shape, while on the A8 you still have to draw the software object. The shape of a player cost 0 CPU cycles plus some cycles for the X positioning. But drawing a software object and overlay this with a Player in an also full drawn shape + handling , and doing background and foreground masking..... doing this twice when an enemy arrives ....You're sure you know what you're writing about?

[José Pereira]

Just one more:

The coder doesn't want to code isn't the reason he didn't know what he was saying!

You don't code and don't build anything but can give your opinions?

Who's don't want to do nothing?

 

You.

Start to add 1 & 1 , would be a good start. The result will be 2 . Not 11 , not 3 ....

 

 

The only common points of using Sprites and PMg is the low CPU usage, when using them straight.

The difference is that the C64 sprites will build a final shape, while on the A8 you still have to draw the software object. The shape of a player cost 0 CPU cycles plus some cycles for the X positioning. But drawing a software object and overlay this with a Player in an also full drawn shape + handling , and doing background and foreground masking..... doing this twice when an enemy arrives ....You're sure you know what you're writing about?

 

 

O.k., if it is really tight in having the Pillars in the 'Masking' and in 'No Masking' in the same byte then I decided to re-design the Pillars so that they are now in wide bytes boundaries, like this:

 

Now you have Pillars in bytes boundaries wide 'where to Mask' and 'where not to Mask'.

The soft sprites overlays are now easier...

 

 

I would really like like to listen/have a coders opinion about this.

Thanks.

 

José Pereira.

Edited October 13, 2011 by José Pereira

[mrsid]

Consider the possibility of the player being masked like this:

 

[Rybags]

I don't think it's worth the trouble of remaking graphics such that pillars always occupy a full byte where possible. And as shown, there's probably plenty of instances where partial masking within a byte is needed.

 

A better approach might be to just maintain a bitmap representing character cells where masking elements can be flagged, and/or a table of coordinates where the sprites become eligible for masking.

 

Masking softsprites on their own is simple enough - you can just treat the pillar as another kind of softsprite that doesn't move and only needs drawing occasionally, but masking of PMG data isn't so straightforward. If it's the case that masking elements are always a nice vertical shape with no indentations, then it would become a bit easier.

[José Pereira]

Rybags the Pillar as a kind of a soft sprite is something I thought from the first time...

problem with Emkay seems to be the PMs masking.

Is there any trouble in Pillars half byte part Masking a PM? A Pillar/vertical linear?

But in  asituation like that Mrsid posted, how to without a hardware sprite?

I see that the visible part of the guy is the one above Black colour that is the Backgr. Gfxs. colour.

If in A8 the guy would a soft sprite only it would be just another more soft sprite routine (that grid is 1byte wide)... but how can you on this situation Mask the PMs with the Grid (I have, for example P0&P1 on the guy with PRIOR0)?

[José Pereira]

One more tricky situation:

If the guy are on left of that grid?

 

 

How the hell this are done in C64?

Guys are hardware sprites but can't be PRIOR because in the same cell the same colour register is masking and isn't masking.

For example, here on this picture the Dark Gray on the Floor will be under the Prince but will be in front of it on the Grid.

 

And there's no hardware sprites on those Gfxs... I think, because they doesn't fit in the C64 Multicolour 2common colours hardware sprites.

[Heaven/TQA]

ok... whent through... but masking is masking... even on byte or non-byte boundaries (only 1 byte more). that's why I never go into deep thoughts further. Rybags is right... treat the "foreground" objects as soft sprites then you are checking if your object is going behind... if so then load the desired masks (for softsprite and for the PM overlays) and do the damned masking out... on A8 it is more complicated because you need to treat several things at once... softsprite data plus PM data but all doable... that's why I say that PoP is possible on A8 because there are not many objects moving around?

 

and as a coder... I would first make the game without any PM overlays... why? because you have a game... and then add bits and pieces to spice up.

[José Pereira]

ok... whent through... but masking is masking... even on byte or non-byte boundaries (only 1 byte more). that's why I never go into deep thoughts further. Rybags is right... treat the "foreground" objects as soft sprites then you are checking if your object is going behind... if so then load the desired masks (for softsprite and for the PM overlays) and do the damned masking out... on A8 it is more complicated because you need to treat several things at once... softsprite data plus PM data but all doable... that's why I say that PoP is possible on A8 because there are not many objects moving around?

 

and as a coder... I would first make the game without any PM overlays... why? because you have a game... and then add bits and pieces to spice up.

 

Thanks for your answer.

Of course that first is the screen build and the soft sprite...

But we need to know/have ideas of where will we use the PMs because of wich PFs. you will have on the soft sprites shapes.

 

 

But even with only soft sprite Masking it seems really difficult, for example, that Grid because at the bottom there are the same Gray colour Masking(on the Grid) and not Masking (in the Floor)...

What would you do, for example, on the Grid situation (even if just a soft sprite)?

[Rybags]

The possibility of using character mode arises... hey presto, you can use the character code to determine what the priority vs the background is.

 

Naturally the extra colour would need to be restricted to places the sprites don't venture to.

[Heaven/TQA]

Jose... you can mask everything... masking is done on BIT level so I can mask out everything I can mask out the background, I can mask out foreground etc...

 

Or what is your problem?

 

assume following byte in softsprite:

 

%11111111

 

now I asm out the left 2 bits...

 

%11111111

%00111111 AND mask

%00111111 store in VRAM

 

or

%11111111

%11001100 AND mask

%11001100 store in VRAM

 

if my memories are right...

[Heaven/TQA]

Rybags... in Beyond Evil (or same in Gremlins) you have a separate "action code screen" with all necessary information on "block level".

[José Pereira]

Naturally the extra colour would need to be restricted to places the sprites don't venture to.

But this if they are using PF2 ( and also a a P2&P3 overlay in PRIOR0), right?

[José Pereira]

Jose... you can mask everything... masking is done on BIT level so I can mask out everything I can mask out the background, I can mask out foreground etc...

 

Or what is your problem?

 

assume following byte in softsprite:

 

%11111111

 

now I asm out the left 2 bits...

 

%11111111

%00111111 AND mask

%00111111 store in VRAM

 

or

%11111111

%11001100 AND mask

%11001100 store in VRAM

 

if my memories are right...

 

 

Yes, I remember it...

It depends the way you set the bits of the soft sprite when you put it on inverse at 'AND' with the Gfxs., isn't it?

[José Pereira]

Jose... you can mask everything... masking is done on BIT level so I can mask out everything I can mask out the background, I can mask out foreground etc...

 

Or what is your problem?

 

assume following byte in softsprite:

 

%11111111

 

now I asm out the left 2 bits...

 

%11111111

%00111111 AND mask

%00111111 store in VRAM

 

or

%11111111

%11001100 AND mask

%11001100 store in VRAM

 

if my memories are right...

 

 

Yes, I remember it...

It depends the way you set the bits of the soft sprite when you put it on inverse at 'AND' with the Gfxs., isn't it?

 

 

Forget it... I have my head and lots of papers around....

I'll maybe get this, no problem... Important is that you coders get it ...

 

As for Rybags talk about Char-Mode is it the way to go (the only one)?

That nº of char (<128 or >=128) it's a very good idea.

Problem is that we would, probably, have to get all the Gfxs. from scratch...

 

 

Decisions about Gfxs: Charmode or Bitmap Mode?

[Heaven/TQA]

Bitmap... Rybags mentioned that you have some kind of flag for each block or tile... but that can be done in another way like Gremlins or my Beyond Evil is doing it...you can organise a "background buffer" which can hold 255 states for each tile... so not an issue...