Wich one of these two Prince of Persia you prefer?

[José Pereira]

I'm thinking here that it might just be a whole lot easier to use PMGs in 4-colour player mode with Playfield having priority over everything.

 

Then, no masking should be needed on PMGs. Less overall colours would be available but there'd be significant time and memory savings.

 

 

And more than the Black problem on Pillars I think that this would be a project to take some time and that needs, not only a good coder (anyway, only a good coder will start to code a game like this game ).

And a game like this deserves the best...

It could be all coded in PRIOR4 at a start with the PMs underlays and then if there is possibility turn it to PRIOR0 but then the PMs. nºs. and the PFs. involved in each soft sprites shapes would be different.

 

The best in my opinion if a coder arise interested in coding this it would first build all the Gfxs and the first Level screen (the one with this Tiles) and the soft sprites routine.

If there is cycles (it seems there are) then it would be just some bit-pairs changing on the soft sprites and on some Gfxs.

This is the first thing to start, isn't it?

 

For me and my work I can get all to use PRIOR4 or to use PRIOR0.

From what I see I can get the PMs. working also on PRIOR4 but with a different approach.

But I continue to say that if it takes 1year or more to code then some time more to get those overlays PMs and Masking would be worth the ending result.

If there isn't nothing CPU against PMs overlays and PMs Masking then it should be considered as the first choice but later on the coding.

That's the way I see it.

 

Best is if we really get someone to code this...

Edited October 14, 2011 by José Pereira

[emkay]

 

And more than the Black problem on Pillars I think that this would be a project to take some time and that needs, not only a good coder (anyway, only a good coder will start to code a game like this game ).

 

Coded in "the best way", black will not be a problem. You always have the chance to use one PM in black and to put it under a pillar, to hide the visible colours. Using the standard overlay (Playfield over PMg) could be used, but you have to check the background continously.

 

 

And a game like this deserves the best...

It could be all coded in PRIOR4 at a start with the PMs underlays and then if there is possibility turn it to PRIOR0 but then the PMs. nºs. and the PFs. involved in each soft sprites shapes would be different.

 

 

"It could" .... we'd better use this term after seeing a working engine, with full working gfx and full gameplay.

May I remind (again) , we haven't seen anything close to this til now on the A8?

While I have no doubt, we -could- use several "more" overlay handling on PAL machines, the NTSC machines will quickly run out of CPU cycles.

 

The best in my opinion if a coder arise interested in coding this it would first build all the Gfxs and the first Level screen (the one with this Tiles) and the soft sprites routine.

If there is cycles (it seems there are) then it would be just some bit-pairs changing on the soft sprites and on some Gfxs.

This is the first thing to start, isn't it?

 

Ofcourse we'd need a "proof of concept" , but non of those "let's try small screen for fast movement.

 

For me and my work I can get all to use PRIOR4 or to use PRIOR0.

From what I see I can get the PMs. working also on PRIOR4 but with a different approach.

But I continue to say that if it takes 1year or more to code then some time more to get those overlays PMs and Masking would be worth the ending result.

If there isn't nothing CPU against PMs overlays and PMs Masking then it should be considered as the first choice but later on the coding.

That's the way I see it.

 

Best is if we really get someone to code this...

 

...

[Heaven/TQA]

Jose... sprite masking is done dynamicly... even for the hardware sprites on c64

 

so I guess mrsid is checking where sprite masking is needed... then he is taking the animation sprite data for the hardware sprite ANDs the desired mask and then stores the data into the hardware sprite, so same what would needed for the A8 PMs. If you are using softsprites then nearly the same is needed except that the softsprite data is then prepared to store on screen... (assuming bitmap screen)... so I would take the screen bytes where the softsprite would then be put... AND that with the needed mask for the masked (!) softsprite (so there is place to put data there) and then ORA the data there.

 

so actually on A8 you need more cycles to do the gfx but we have a faster CPU, so I expect not an issue.

 

as for the 320x vs 160x you mentioned... I assume that mrsid does not move the hardware sprites in 320x steps but scales up the resolution from the game engine... but the sprite move still in 160x resolution otherwise I guess that the masking will be more complicated. can not see that from youtube yet.

[José Pereira]

O.k. I can get everything in PRIOR4...

Instead of PRIOR0 I enable Multicolour PMs in the PM2&PM3 on the Enemy.

This way all the sprites would be underlay:

-> PM2&PM3 Multicolour on Enemy

-> Other Lines P2&P3 in Torches Fire, Bottles,...

-> PM0&PM1 for our guy (This way I have to put the Turbant on it like in Apple2, there's no way to colour the Hair)

 

Now the problem is the Black.

You could dinamically I could try to don't have the Missiles in the guys and but I need them to help in the Multicolour of the Enemy Hands.

The Missiles as 5th Player in PRIOR0 are above all (PFs&PMs) and because we are in Bitmap Mode I can set it to Black.

But there's another trouble, if use one PM or the 4Missiles as Black they would cover only one Pillar but the we, sometimes, need the two Pillars Masking (one Pillar with our guy and the other with the enemy... It's possible, I see it in the past on some videos).

Because the Black pixels shape would be the same on the repeat Pillar, could we re-use/repeat the Player or the 4Missiles?

 

Have to see the different Enemy shapes...

 

But it's doable.

Wouldn't be just that small Area of the Pillars every time a guy goes behind that will destroy all this good IMHO:

You simply, at the first looking don't see much difference... Only later you start looking better and see that our guy instead a Hair has a Turbant).

Edited October 14, 2011 by José Pereira

[José Pereira]

I know how to do Pillar Rocks without Black! The next Picture would be dedicated Emkay ...

 

Now guys who's going to code the game?

It would be a 'simply' soft Pillars masking the guys as PMs. will all be overlays in PRIOR4.

Edited October 14, 2011 by José Pereira

[emkay]

I know how to do Pillar Rocks without Black! The next Picture would be dedicated Emkay ...

 

Now guys who's going to code the game?

It would be a 'simply' soft Pillars masking the guys as PMs. will all be overlays in PRIOR4.

 

I know a way WITH black in the pillars:

 

 

As I wrote.

 

2 colours can filter the PMg, some help with PM overlay needed.

 

The only point here ist that the border will get a colour, which would not really be a bad thing.

 

Black is masking everything. The pillars can be patched with one Player, when the Protagonist is walking behind it.

Pillar range is just not to redraw with the software object. The 3rd background colour is behind the PMg object.

 

And now someone start to code it

[Heaven/TQA]

but Guys... am I stupid but if your pillar mask is covering the whole pillar I don't care regarding black? as everything will anyway whiped out? neverless bitmap or PM?

[Rybags]

You don't need to "wipe everything out" - there's the set priorities among the PMs themselves that allow the cheap masking.

But I can't see it working anyway... Players are too valuable to be wasted as pillar masks and you can need more than 1 if there's a bad guy. I suspect the Missiles on their own would be too skinny, plus you'd need them as "P4" which messes up the priorities.

 

"Black" per-se doesn't matter - it's COLBK that's always transparent regardless of colour.

[Heaven/TQA]

we in business keep to say... "keep it stupid and simple"...

[José Pereira]

I know how to do Pillar Rocks without Black! The next Picture would be dedicated Emkay ...

 

Now guys who's going to code the game?

It would be a 'simply' soft Pillars masking the guys as PMs. will all be overlays in PRIOR4.

 

I know a way WITH black in the pillars:

 

 

As I wrote.

 

2 colours can filter the PMg, some help with PM overlay needed.

 

The only point here ist that the border will get a colour, which would not really be a bad thing.

 

Black is masking everything. The pillars can be patched with one Player, when the Protagonist is walking behind it.

Pillar range is just not to redraw with the software object. The 3rd background colour is behind the PMg object.

 

And now someone start to code it

 

Emkay you're returning... with your ideas

If you still need to put a Player there then why would you change Background colour Register?

And why returning to this uggly Walls in 1or2colours?

 

If oit is to put a Player there then you simply put a Player in the Black....

[sack-c0s]

we in business keep to say... "keep it stupid and simple"...

 

some days looking at my code I think it's only the 'simple' we're missing...

Edited October 14, 2011 by sack-c0s

[Heaven/TQA]

still not get it... C64 has the same issue regarding background color so when sprites are covered by gfx? so again... there you mask out sprite data when going behind a pillar... so why should I make the things more complicated on A8 then it need to be? you have the masks and you have sprite routines which need small adaptation that you mask out softsprite data plus PM overlays?

[Heaven/TQA]

or is our goal to spin around weeks ideas in terms of using fancy tricks which nobody as "normal" gamer would ever recognise? (Yeah, this game kicks ass because look at the damned PM overlay PRIOR #0 fancy trickery masking to gain 1 or 2 colors!!! - answer... which colors?"

[emkay]

The players are NOT to valuable, if someone seriously wants to make the game for the Atari.

One Player per moving objects should fit well...

We have 5 "Players" available.

One for masking the front graphics, leaving 4 available. The 5th player could be used for the background colours(flames)

leaving 3 players available.

One for the Protaginist, one for an enemy ..... makes one Player stil available....

[Rybags]

C64 actually has 2 colours treated as "background" re Priorities.

 

I doubt a Player per human will be sufficient, very much.

 

Not that it matters, it's not like emkay will be doing any of the programming.

[emkay]

C64 actually has 2 colours treated as "background" re Priorities.

 

I doubt a Player per human will be sufficient, very much.

 

Not that it matters, it's not like emkay will be doing any of the programming.

 

Not that it matters, doing nothing is better than doing nonsense

 

There is no way to handle the game as the C64 does.

The only way for a relieable version is to use 3 colours for all objects... not 4

 

The Prince can be done with

 

brown (skincolour) (playfield)

white (clothes) (player)

black ....(playfield)

 

Enemy ... any colour for the clothes

 

Stones

bright colour (Upper playfield)

darker colour (Lower playfield) (Player)

 

 

and so on.

 

IF all is working then, and IF resources were free after the game is running, everyone may feel free to use the available players at every usable range, for "fine tuning" the graphics.

[Heaven/TQA]

I think... that if mrsid joins Andy or Pete or even Sack or Tezz or Wrathchild... they give him the "framework code" for the A8 initialisation (gfx wise) he would be the fastest guy to make a Antic E version running as he knows the 6502 codebase well.

[José Pereira]

still not get it... C64 has the same issue regarding background color so when sprites are covered by gfx? so again... there you mask out sprite data when going behind a pillar... so why should I make the things more complicated on A8 then it need to be? you have the masks and you have sprite routines which need small adaptation that you mask out softsprite data plus PM overlays?

 

I was into this untill Rybags said that he would go for a sprite underlay PRIOR4.

The Black and Masking problem isn't only on the Pillars...

For example, when there's a Wall to Climbon you Right / Falling on your Left you would have to Mask it or put there a Black Player Mask

 

I am seeing all Levels version of the DOS version at YouTube and it seems, that in the other way, that it could be 5th Player Missiles as Black could do the job:

-> You place the Player to the Pillar that the guy is going... remove it and put it in the next.

-> The Enemy normally starts just next to the Pillar

-> Prince on one side and Enemy on the other. When they are fighting one push the other and like this there's no way that the two can be behind two Pillars at the same time (because of the pixels between the two pillars).

-> Other thing I notice is that if you push an Enemy and is behind a Pillar (one Player masking here) then if left it and go the other direction, then the Enemy instantly left the Pillar zone and goes out to your direction trying to catch you...

 

It seems that one Player (and it can go with 4Missiles 5th Player, 8pixels are enough) would do the Job.

The problem is that the Missiles are needed in the way the sprites are on the original...

I would redesign these Pillars than all the sprites frames.

[emkay]

I think... that if mrsid joins Andy or Pete or even Sack or Tezz or Wrathchild... they give him the "framework code" for the A8 initialisation (gfx wise) he would be the fastest guy to make a Antic E version running as he knows the 6502 codebase well.

 

A pure Antic E version without PMs would be good. Particular for prooving the software masking.

[José Pereira]

C64 actually has 2 colours treated as "background" re Priorities.

 

I doubt a Player per human will be sufficient, very much.

 

Not that it matters, it's not like emkay will be doing any of the programming.

 

Not that it matters, doing nothing is better than doing nonsense

 

There is no way to handle the game as the C64 does.

The only way for a relieable version is to use 3 colours for all objects... not 4

 

The Prince can be done with

 

brown (skincolour) (playfield)

white (clothes) (player)

black ....(playfield)

 

Enemy ... any colour for the clothes

 

Stones

bright colour (Upper playfield)

darker colour (Lower playfield) (Player)

 

 

and so on.

 

IF all is working then, and IF resources were free after the game is running, everyone may feel free to use the available players at every usable range, for "fine tuning" the graphics.

 

 

Emkay I didn't even bother to read your distribution of colours in this Post.

it's a total Non-sense.

Even two Player doesn't cover all the Skin (or the White instead)

-> 1Player for the dark colour of the Enemy clothes can't be a Player only.

-> There are three type/colours of Enemys and like that the Enemys (at least the Throusers/Dark colour must be a PM.

->The White isn't a Player, The white colour must be a PF. colour to have the guy clothe, the guy's weapons and if really necessary that Lighest clothe of the Enemy in White (exactly like C64).

-> Using C64 gfxs. is the best solution as you can have the White colour on the dither of the Rocks. No other type of Rock would work because tit would not have the White colour as PFs (like you see on P.C. or NES where there's no White/Light or Dither Gray in the colours)

Or you will go to those uggly Emkay screens.

 

Why this always happen? When things are going in a good way and we can freely discuss there's always an Emkay ressurection in is Bad side of the Force ?

Now Emkay will answer: "Because I know what I am saying and if not like this you'll never get anything,..."

 

And I'll answer to him again... And we are wasting time

 

 

 

And the explanations go on and on...

 

 

Emkay you have here all the frames of the sprites. the time you're posting here non-sense why not better Load them and see.

Emkay start it all over again

[Rybags]

White (Player) clothes... well, that rules out doing it with a single, unless of course you propose to do in 2x horizontal size.

 

The fact of the matter is that there's little chance of effectively doing the game using only 2 players for humans.

 

The other fact needed to be learned is that masking players while drawing them rather than putting another higher priority object over them isn't some dark art, it's just something that can be done with a bit of effort.

 

Resorting to cop-out methods of creating games is something that should be left in the bad old 48K 1980s era.

[emkay]

 

 

I was into this untill Rybags said that he would go for a sprite underlay PRIOR4.

 

The Black and Masking problem isn't only on the Pillars...

 

For example, when there's a Wall to Climbon you Right / Falling on your Left you would have to Mask it or put there a Black Player Mask

 

 

 

 

The "black masking" problem isn't there.

 

 

 

 

I am seeing all Levels version of the DOS version at YouTube and it seems, that in the other way, that it could be 5th Player Missiles as Black could do the job:

 

-> You place the Player to the Pillar that the guy is going... remove it and put it in the next.

 

-> The Enemy normally starts just next to the Pillar

 

-> Prince on one side and Enemy on the other. When they are fighting one push the other and like this there's no way that the two can be behind two Pillars at the same time (because of the pixels between the two pillars).

 

 

 

My solution has the needed player available....

 

 

 

 

-> Other thing I notice is that if you push an Enemy and is behind a Pillar (one Player masking here) then if left it and go the other direction, then the Enemy instantly left the Pillar zone and goes out to your direction trying to catch you...

 

 

It seems that one Player (and it can go with 4Missiles 5th Player, 8pixels are enough) would do the Job.

 

The problem is that the Missiles are needed in the way the sprites are on the original...

 

I would redesign these Pillars than all the sprites frames.

 

 

 

No, because black is masking the players.

 

[José Pereira]

Emkay another thing:

You can't use 5th Player on Torches Fire as it would be always higher PRIOR than PFs.

This way you would still need PFs vs Players interaction/Masking.

[José Pereira]

Rybags what's the meaning of "cop-out"?

[emkay]

C64 actually has 2 colours treated as "background" re Priorities.

 

I doubt a Player per human will be sufficient, very much.

 

Not that it matters, it's not like emkay will be doing any of the programming.

 

Not that it matters, doing nothing is better than doing nonsense

 

There is no way to handle the game as the C64 does.

The only way for a relieable version is to use 3 colours for all objects... not 4

 

The Prince can be done with

 

brown (skincolour) (playfield)

white (clothes) (player)

black ....(playfield)

 

Enemy ... any colour for the clothes

 

Stones

bright colour (Upper playfield)

darker colour (Lower playfield) (Player)

 

 

and so on.

 

IF all is working then, and IF resources were free after the game is running, everyone may feel free to use the available players at every usable range, for "fine tuning" the graphics.

 

 

Emkay I didn't even bother to read your distribution of colours in this Post.

it's a total Non-sense.

Even two Player doesn't cover all the Skin (or the White instead)

-> 1Player for the dark colour of the Enemy clothes can't be a Player only.

-> There are three type/colours of Enemys and like that the Enemys (at least the Throusers/Dark colour must be a PM.

->The White isn't a Player, The white colour must be a PF. colour to have the guy clothe, the guy's weapons and if really necessary that Lighest clothe of the Enemy in White (exactly like C64).

-> Using C64 gfxs. is the best solution as you can have the White colour on the dither of the Rocks. No other type of Rock would work because tit would not have the White colour as PFs (like you see on P.C. or NES where there's no White/Light or Dither Gray in the colours)

Or you will go to those uggly Emkay screens.

 

Why this always happen? When things are going in a good way and we can freely discuss there's always an Emkay ressurection in is Bad side of the Force ?

Now Emkay will answer: "Because I know what I am saying and if not like this you'll never get anything,..."

 

And I'll answer to him again... And we are wasting time

 

 

 

And the explanations go on and on...

 

 

Emkay you have here all the frames of the sprites. the time you're posting here non-sense why not better Load them and see.

Emkay start it all over again

 

Yawn

 

 

You can adjust the PM to 4x every scanline....

 

So, where's the problem?