Utopia Posted December 30, 2012 Share Posted December 30, 2012 (edited) well, i meant variation anyway. It is a variation, right? In a way....... The boss level has now been enabled where it could not previously be played with the release cart on a PAL console. Edited December 30, 2012 by Utopia Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ACrystal2011 Posted December 30, 2012 Share Posted December 30, 2012 Defender of the crown looks so good loved the original Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Games For Your Intellivision Posted December 30, 2012 Author Share Posted December 30, 2012 Fair enough,...... Yes, DZ-Jay, I am running a for profit business to produce new Intellivision games. I invested THOUSANDS of dollars in my business. People write games, and I publish them....that is the model....and, yes, the programmers do it for the love of it....so do I.......but I am not running a charity......Carl and I both love the Intellivision. We have been at this a lot longer than you or anyone here. My friend Scott and I gave Carl technical support in the mid 90s when he was writing the 'Intellivision Lives' emulator. The Exec, Grom, ECS Exec on that complilation all come from MY Intellivision, not to menton a lot of the game roms came from my cartridge collection.....I had 'Scarfinger' running on my DOS 486 in 1996, and was using real hand controllers with the PC emulator on an interface we built. Everything that is publically known about the Exec and Intellivision is because of Carl and dare I say, myself. Every Intellivision emulator today owes its existence to Carl. Carl went on to produce an Intellivision emulator that ran on the Gameboy Color......and then produced an Intellivision emulator for the Famicom/NES........yes, he had plans to make it his job, but things didn't work out. When the world gives you lemons, you make lemonade......and Carl got a lot of lemons. He is the best damn Intellivision programmer alive.....so, naturally, it would be nice if he could make a living at it........he doesn't have the luxury of going to a well paying job because of health problems, and perhaps you aren't aware, or forgot that he programs with his voice.........so, excuse us for trying to pay the bills doing something we love. Not everyone can have your smug 'amature' attitude. And, you know that you are getting money for your game.....it isn't purely 'for the love ot it'. Defender of the Crown is an incomplete game from a different programmer. It is not going to be an easy or 'fun' task to perform this. This is six months of hard work. Neither Carl or I have the financial ability to pour thousands of dollars into this title, and HOPE that we can get our money back out of it, or even paid for our time. How much money did you contribute to the significant investment in cutting dies that printed your game box and overlays? None. You have done nothing but whine about anything I have done for you. In a previous thread, you whined about my overlays. You said they weren't 'Mattel like'. Well, unlike you, I paid for those overlays to exist, and I chose to keep costs half of what a Mattel thickness overlay would have cost. You claimed you were a 'stickler for details'....what a laugh that is! The stickler who wants a 'gold' box, but puts beige down on paper, and then expects me to 'get' what he was going for? I spent a lot of time at the printer to get your box made. I put 100 of them together.....and, what do I get? Snotty emails saying I can't have one of your boxes for my own use. The stickler who prints up an Activision size manual for a Mattel box? Yeah, nice manual....too bad you never tried it in a Mattel box. The stickler for detail who gives me the wrong sized cart sticker....using a non-vectored font.....and then has the audacity to complain about BLEED on it! And, then refused to believe me that there was nothing wrong with the quality of the sticker. I have had enough of your attitude here. This game is not going to make me any money.....if the Kickstarter is a success, it will pay for the programming....it will pay for the printing....it will pay for the labour to put the darn thing together, and finally, it will pay for the shipping and handling. There is no 'profit margin'.......the only think I will get is a complete game that I will have the rights to, and the ability to print more copies that i could POSSIBLY make some money on if there was demand for more than 500 copies. Just to be clear: I have never used or asked for free art. I have paid for every piece of art on my games or materials I wrote the manual and box copy for Minehunter. Carl wrote the manual and copy for D2K Arcade. We are not retards who need any help to come up with something coherent to put on the back of a box. I simply thought that it would be fun to allow some others to come up with something for the game, and even have their name in the credits if we used it. I asked people to do foreign language translations of our games..........in my budget, for translations, I have 'gratitude'......that is it......it was meant to be something for non-English people to be able to print out and have something for their Intellivision collections. I think that you 'volunteered' to do the Spanish versions.......you did nothing with them.......do I care? Not really..... I have never asked anyone to promote my games. If Defender of the Crown is to be produced, it needs to have its costs reduced or it doesn't get made. Simple. I have not asked anyone to produce or ship other titles, because, they make economic sense. If the fans want to see this game done, they are going to have to step up.....it is that simple. It has nothing to do with being 'professional'......yes, this game will come out under the Elektronite banner if it gets produced.....and yes, it will be owned by my company, but every backer of this game will be responsible for its creation. But none of this support is going to make me any money. So, I see nothing wrong with trying to make this a title that the community can determine if it lives or dies. You obviously don't like me. You haven't been my favourite person either. I wish you would just leave me alone and stop with your caustic, arrogant and frankly, insulting comments. You mentioned to me about 'burning bridges' in a thread referenced in this one......your bridges are SO smoked...... To others here, who want to start invoking 'bacon'.......I won't be saying anything more to DZ..........ever That is all. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Intymike Posted December 30, 2012 Share Posted December 30, 2012 (edited) "You say "rely on OCD collectors buying every single variation" Well, if you are talking about the upcoming black box DK Arcade release, it was the same OCD collectors that begged and pleaded for him to do it, he had cancelled it but revived it at the urging of me and cmart and a few others. other than DK, there isnt really many other variations. Now Carol has regular version and the special edition and the Version with the bug in it, so carol has 3 versions already." Actually Rev, Carol has another version that fixes a issue in PAL countries. This will enable it to play the same as the general release. Boss Level not playable? Hm, and how can I get to a update? Edited December 30, 2012 by Intymike Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bennybingo Posted December 30, 2012 Share Posted December 30, 2012 Fair enough,...... ...To others here, who want to start invoking 'bacon'....... That is all. So let me get this straight... ....are you saying that Defenders of the Crown is going to come with some BACON as a pack-in bonus??? If so, I am SOOOOOOO down to help pack this bad boy up for you! PS: I want royalties if this "bacon pack-in" idea of mine takes off! 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Games For Your Intellivision Posted December 30, 2012 Author Share Posted December 30, 2012 Didn't you hear? A package of bacon is going to be one of the reward tiers.......or at least, a picture of one 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Intymike Posted December 30, 2012 Share Posted December 30, 2012 (edited) So let me get this straight... ....are you saying that Defenders of the Crown is going to come with some BACON as a pack-in bonus??? If so, I am SOOOOOOO down to help pack this bad boy up for you! PS: I want royalties if this "bacon pack-in" idea of mine takes off! As Defender of the Crown takes place in England, I suggest to put a can of Spam instead of Bacon in the package. What about a international version? I think of a german version with Sauerkraut & Sausages. Edited December 30, 2012 by Intymike 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Utopia Posted December 30, 2012 Share Posted December 30, 2012 Boss Level not playable? Hm, and how can I get to a update? If you are in a PAL country L.T.O. have been proactive and will automatically send out new carts at no cost. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Intymike Posted December 30, 2012 Share Posted December 30, 2012 If you are in a PAL country L.T.O. have been proactive and will automatically send out new carts at no cost. As Germany is the mother of all PAL countrys, you can say I´am. But I didn´t got a message about this topic or a new cart until now. And I have really early cart. But this is one of those carts that has already a bugfix, maybe the PAL bug was fixed with that as well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bikeguychicago Posted December 30, 2012 Share Posted December 30, 2012 As Defender of the Crown takes place in England, I suggest to put a can of Spam instead of Bacon in the package. I. DON'T. LIKE. SPAM! ... someone had to say it Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Intymike Posted December 30, 2012 Share Posted December 30, 2012 I. DON'T. LIKE. SPAM! ... someone had to say it What about a alternate UK version including Fish & Chips wrapped in a old newspaper? 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vprette Posted December 30, 2012 Share Posted December 30, 2012 Actually, from what i gather, he wasnt asking for FREE labor. he said: "If you are reliable.....have the drive to pack and ship hundreds of copies of the game, for modest remuneration, please let me know." While it be "modest" it is something. As ALL 'homebrewers' know all too well, there is a very low profit margin producing these games. To me, there is not really wrong with asking for help. And as far as I know, all the artists so far have been paid. And as far as promoting his games, who has promoted the elektronite games? Well, I think I have possible as much as elektronite has.....And no one ever asked me too. I do it because I like helping out......I truly can not think of anyone else tht has been asked to help out with game promotions. You say "rely on OCD collectors buying every single variation" Well, if you are talking about the upcoming black box DK Arcade release, it was the same OCD collectors that begged and pleaded for him to do it, he had cancelled it but revived it at the urging of me and cmart and a few others. other than DK, there isnt really many other variations. Now Carol has regular version and the special edition and the Version with the bug in it, so carol has 3 versions already. "provide copy for boxes" I think if a fan wrote the back of the box description he would be proud that it got used and even prouder if his name made it into the credits! ~ rev I'd like to add few words from my side Elektronite projects is willing to produce more games and some very interesting new title such defender of the crown and caves of kroz... those title are official releases.... that maybe means no much to some people, thanks to the attitude of several hombrew producer that sell arcade conversions without licence... (absolutely not speaking about intellivision here, but for example look to the colecovision scene).. going for official release can be discussed here with all you collectors, but being the Elektronite choice, it implies long negotiation with software houses (as done by myself with taito, cinemaware, apogee, llamasoft, free fall, Core, activision, ubisoft etc. etc.) all this work is not always effective due to the cost of copyrights we have been asked... but it is surely coming out from both passion and mostly professional beahviour... the 2012 has been a very good year for intellivision.... but many times during last years I had to note jealousy and lack of practical collaboration within the intv community.... it is strange for me to see this Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ghsqb Posted December 30, 2012 Share Posted December 30, 2012 (edited) I think everyone is entitled to their opinion, and I think sometimes it can be healthy to throw some of these issues out there and discuss them as long as we can do so in a productive manner. I really appreciate anyone that puts time and effort towards bringing new games out for a 30 year old system, so that we can all keep our passion alive for our childhood systems. I just think that whether its with David, or with DZ, William doesn't seem to feel the same way. To be fair, I've never seen him have a problem with Joe, so it may be just a case of a couple of specific personalities not fitting well together. Regardless of who did what, however long ago, (and I do appreciate the work that William, Joe and Carl put in to get us to where we are today) I think that the effort was put in to create all the tools that exist today so that people like David, William, Carl, Valter, Joe, DZ and anyone else that wants to invest the time, can create these games we all enjoy. I understand that there are those who have very strong ideas about how that should be done, and that they can offer very articulate and passionate reasons about why they feel that way. I just hope however that we can all learn to respect the views of other contributors to this hobby that don't share their views on how to go about it. Edited December 30, 2012 by ghsqb 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sega_SHARK Posted December 30, 2012 Share Posted December 30, 2012 LOL, and i thought the CV forums was full of douchebags. We Prefer the term "Dingus" Thank you very much. I have no problem helping assemble boxes. No job is too big or too small. I would like to help out in getting any game published. I don't even collect INTV games, but I am willing to help out. P.M. sent Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rev Posted December 31, 2012 Share Posted December 31, 2012 We Prefer the term "Dingus" Thank you very much. I have no problem helping assemble boxes. No job is too big or too small. I would like to help out in getting any game published. I don't even collect INTV games, but I am willing to help out. P.M. sent Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Games For Your Intellivision Posted December 31, 2012 Author Share Posted December 31, 2012 "I just think that whether its with David, or with DZ, William doesn't seem to feel the same way. To be fair, I've never seen him have a problem with Joe, so it may be just a case of a couple of specific personalities not fitting well together." Both those individuals seem to be 'offended' by making Intellivision game production a 'business'......the problem is, it is a kettle calling the pot black situation, as they both make money from the sale of their respective games. It is almost like the olympic 'amature' vs 'professional' snobbery. But, these so called 'amatures' make money......they just try and appear to be magnanimous.....it is a crock. "I understand that there are those who have very strong ideas about how that should be done, and that they can offer very articulate and passionate reasons about why they feel that way. I just hope however that we can all learn to respect the views of other contributors to this hobby that don't share their views on how to go about it." That is the problem....lack of respect. Coming into someone else's thread, and implying that I 'lack class' and implying that I am trying to milk the Intellivision community for free labour is simply being, as Rev put it 'a douche bag'. DZ has had many opportunities to build bridges since the Classic Gaming Expo, but he continually, despite his own advice, burns them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cparsley Posted December 31, 2012 Share Posted December 31, 2012 dang it, I knew I should of attended the CGE, anyone got pics (or a backstory?) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Intymike Posted December 31, 2012 Share Posted December 31, 2012 Please calm down every one...let´s start as a big peaceful Intellivision minded community into the next year! cheers, Mike Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+DZ-Jay Posted December 31, 2012 Share Posted December 31, 2012 I am not offended by someone making money, that's perfectly fine. I am annoyed by what I perceive as abuse of the community. However, that is my own personal opinion. Asking for help and collaboration, is a fantastic and laudable thing. Doing so while at the same time threatening that "you better step up or I will stop making games for you," is not very community-oriented, at least not in my view. Pushing the point with things like "I've given so much already, it's time for you to give back to me," is also not very endearing. Attitudes and motives permeate the comments in this and other threads, and it is hard to ignore when it has been made clear in other conversations that the primary motivator is now money. Whether it started out that way or not, that's how it stands now. Of course, there is nothing wrong with that in and of itself. What i find distasteful is when this is masked with appeals to community building. It gets a bit weird and icky then. Now, I'll admit that it could just be my interpretation, coloured as it were by my personal opinions; it is not a secret that William and I have our differences--and that's putting it mildly. If that's the case, then I'm wrong and nothing comes of it; ignore me. One thing I'll add is that a big separating line must be drawn between me, the game programmer; and Left Turn Only, the production company. LTO produced my game, and did a fantastic job. I just programmed it (with great assistance from Joe and others) and sold a license to LTO for distribution. Being my first game, I was very eager to participate, so I designed the manual and hired an artist to design the artwork for the boxes. I also have been very busy promoting it. And that's where my involvement stops. Other than that, I am not affiliated with LTO. I am not a partner nor a stake-holder in that company. I do get some say in matters related to my game, sometimes; but that's mostly because Joe is very gracious and accepts my feedback. LTO produces the cartridge and packaging, sets its price, and sells it to the public. I go around talking it up and glowing with pride. To be sure, I can say that the price of the game goes mostly to cover the very expensive production costs--even though LTO deserve to make some profit, which I hope my game helps to attain. I have the utmost respect for Left Turn Only, and I think their work is superb, and would gladly jump at the chance of dealing with them again. And lastly, I hereby call a truce. I'll keep my passions in check, avoid at all costs posting anything that may disturb the peace or antagonize anybody, and work towards a united community in any way I can. Making games for the Intellivision is my hobby, and I hope to continue at it, and I hope that the community continues to enjoy them. -dZ. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ghsqb Posted December 31, 2012 Share Posted December 31, 2012 (edited) "I just think that whether its with David, or with DZ, William doesn't seem to feel the same way. To be fair, I've never seen him have a problem with Joe, so it may be just a case of a couple of specific personalities not fitting well together." Both those individuals seem to be 'offended' by making Intellivision game production a 'business'......the problem is, it is a kettle calling the pot black situation, as they both make money from the sale of their respective games. It is almost like the olympic 'amature' vs 'professional' snobbery. But, these so called 'amatures' make money......they just try and appear to be magnanimous.....it is a crock. "I understand that there are those who have very strong ideas about how that should be done, and that they can offer very articulate and passionate reasons about why they feel that way. I just hope however that we can all learn to respect the views of other contributors to this hobby that don't share their views on how to go about it." That is the problem....lack of respect. Coming into someone else's thread, and implying that I 'lack class' and implying that I am trying to milk the Intellivision community for free labour is simply being, as Rev put it 'a douche bag'. DZ has had many opportunities to build bridges since the Classic Gaming Expo, but he continually, despite his own advice, burns them. William, since there are a few of my quotes referenced, I'd just like to clarify a few things. I referenced you specifically in the quote talking about issues with David and DZ, only because I've seen some instances in this forum of public disagreements between you and the folks mentioned. As I mentioned, you certainly have your reasons to feel this way, and it's not my place to say if your reasons are legitimate or not. I also agree that there may well be things that have happened behind the scenes to make you feel the way you do, again it isn't my place to judge. I am only relaying what I see as an observer. For the record, speaking for myself, I have no issue with any and all of you making money off of your efforts. Quite the opposite. If you all invest the time, effort and money to make these projects happen and then feel it was worthwhile financially to have invested all of these things, then you will continue to do so. That's a positive, it's more games for us all to buy, and will help attract programming talent to help further these projects. I do however agree with the general sentiment that with such a niche community that no one will get rich doing this. I also agree with you that while you have always maintained that this is a business for you, that you clearly still do it as a labor of love, as I'm sure there are more profitable ventures your could pour your time, energy and money into if cash was all you cared about. To the second quote you referenced about respecting one another, I hope you don't think I was singling you out here, I meant that comment to apply to everyone. I realize that in the previous quote I mentioned you directly, but that was relative to that issue only, the respect issue applies to everyone. Let's face it, without the passion you guys have for this hobby, you wouldn't be doing what you are all doing. With that passion comes some pretty strong feelings and ideas about what should be done, how it should be done, and certainly ways that it should NOT be done. As a fan and collector however, if this discord between the different players causes even ONE of you to leave the hobby in frustration (as it almost did with David Harley) then I think we ALL suffer for it. I hope to continue to have the good fortune to be able to support all of you by buying multiple copies of your games, and even contributing to financing certain projects where appropriate (see D1K) and I don't want to see any of you leave in frustration over problems that, if they can't be worked out, can at least be tolerated for the good of the community. Edited December 31, 2012 by ghsqb 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rev Posted December 31, 2012 Share Posted December 31, 2012 a truce between EVERYONE invloved in this intv community would be awesome. Lets all work together and play and make intv crap! lets stop any negative comments. Just because you can say it......doesnt mean you should! Wow, i should listen to my own advice. 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TrickyMoon Posted December 31, 2012 Share Posted December 31, 2012 a truce between EVERYONE invloved in this intv community would be awesome. Lets all work together and play and make intv crap! lets stop any negative comments. Just because you can say it......doesnt mean you should! Wow, i should listen to my own advice. agreed, I feel that all this arguing will just jeopardize future releases by anyone. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+cmart604 Posted December 31, 2012 Share Posted December 31, 2012 I suspect that Rev and I will never be able to bridge our differences though...when there's love involved the emotions are just too deep....wait, what? Isn't this the relationships thread? Damnit! lol! Seriously though, can't we all just get along....or at least tolerate each other? This should be one of the fun parts of our lives, to get away from all the stress of real life....oh, also, Bacon. (yes it should be capitalized, it's that important.) 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rev Posted December 31, 2012 Share Posted December 31, 2012 I suspect that Rev and I will never be able to bridge our differences though...when there's love involved the emotions are just too deep....wait, what? Isn't this the relationships thread? Damnit! lol! Seriously though, can't we all just get along....or at least tolerate each other? This should be one of the fun parts of our lives, to get away from all the stress of real life....oh, also, Bacon. (yes it should be capitalized, it's that important.) Chris, you had me at baco......oops, i thought this was a PM. My bad. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rev Posted December 31, 2012 Share Posted December 31, 2012 the real victims here are the CV guys, i called them douchebags and no one defended their honor! :-( 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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