Games For Your Intellivision Posted December 31, 2012 Author Share Posted December 31, 2012 "Asking for help and collaboration, is a fantastic and laudable thing. Doing so while at the same time threatening that "you better step up or I will stop making games for you," is not very community-oriented, at least not in my view. Pushing the point with things like "I've given so much already, it's time for you to give back to me," is also not very endearing." You mis-interpreted my intentions. I am not threatening to stop making games if people don't 'step up'.....I will be producting Paddle Party, Match 5, DK Arcade and The Lost Caves of Kroz in the next six months. Defender of the Crown however, will not happen unless people help......not because I need help.....but because helping will cut the cost to a level that will allow it to be produced......and even then, with NO profit margin, the price will be high..... We CANNOT get the programming done without paying for it......and I have already explained why this cannot be a token amount. The programming, coupled with my very high production and shipping costs.....especially shipping...... have lead me to indeed ask for the help of the community on this title....and, yes, if there is no help.......it will not get produced.......I don't think I can expect to sell 300 copies at 150 dollars a piece......does anyone? That would be the price of the game (shipped) for 300 copies. I got involved with Elektronite, because I wanted to see them finally get something out the door. I was hoping we could get Defender of the Crown completed. Perhaps you jumped to conclusions because of the emnity between us? At any rate, I will abide by the truce and not continue this pointless bickering. Please try to give me the benefit of the doubt, and I will try to do the same for you. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+DZ-Jay Posted December 31, 2012 Share Posted December 31, 2012 Please try to give me the benefit of the doubt, and I will try to do the same for you. Fair enough. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bennybingo Posted December 31, 2012 Share Posted December 31, 2012 Please try to give me the benefit of the doubt, and I will try to do the same for you. Fair enough. and now, for more pressing concerns...who is supplying the Bacon for these future releases and how much of it can we expect as a pack-in bonus??? I vote for at least a pound of fresh Bacon, and it would most certainly need to come from Canada. This, I suspect, will add to the already mounting concern over shipping rates, so I think we need to start a fact-finding committee to determine the best course of action. If we don't intervene now, the Bacon pack-in could completely be lost due to budget cuts. We must prevail...BACON BACON BACON!!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+DZ-Jay Posted December 31, 2012 Share Posted December 31, 2012 Benny, If you get your Bacon from Canada, isn't it just plain ham over there? LOL! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
UberArcade Posted December 31, 2012 Share Posted December 31, 2012 So back to Defender of the Crown... I agree, 300 copies at $150 probably won't happen unless you got a lot of buzz on kickstarter. Several people here would pay $150, but not enough. Maybe a cart only release shipped in a padded envelope. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+cmart604 Posted January 1, 2013 Share Posted January 1, 2013 I'm not sure about selling 300 @ $150 either so I think you would need to get creative around a bunch of different levels, similar to what happened with Starcastle for the 2600. I know we've discussed that before but it's probably time to let all this "other" talk go and get back to the matter at hand and get this released. It would seem that most folks on here have no problem with Carl getting paid for the work he'll have to do to get this to release status and for Willy to make a buck himself but I wonder if a bit of a cost breakdown might help put folk's minds at ease as the $45K figure (300 @$150?) is not a small sum. I'd certainly be willing to pay for some sort of premium release - $150?, $250?, $500? - depending on what was involved. Clearly this could start as a small "hope this helps" donation, to a ROM, to a loose cart, to a CIB, to a SE, to whatever comes above that. Why don't we get back to focusing on ideas for what the levels might look like and see if the community can help this see the light of day. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Carl Mueller Jr Posted January 1, 2013 Share Posted January 1, 2013 This is a rough idea of what I think should be offered as tiers: $10 - Serial numbered, customized ROM with name in in-game credits, PDFs of game materials $20 - Same as above, but name also in "contributors" section of game manual $50 - Cartridge-only version (no physical instructions, box, or overlays) $100 - Complete-in-box version (cartridge, overlays, instructions), shrink-wrapped, normal shell $150 - Complete-in-box version with clear plastic shell and LEDs $250 - As above, but signed by author, serial number in the range 1 to 20 (limited to 20 backers, obviously) $1000 - Game contains knight with backer's name, knight's avatar drawn to backer's likeness, backer can customize theknight'ss stats to his liking Observations: I don't think we should have any between $250-$1000, because no one ever backs them. The $10-$20 range, the $50 range, and the $100 range have the most backers. We should focus on these ranges. We shouldn't have any more tiers, because it will likely confuse people and there doesn't seem to be much point. Problem: There's no way to reach even these price points unless we can reduce the cost per unit. That is why Willy is trying to find a way to manufacture and ship the game materials from the US; the outrageous shipping costs in Canada is really killing us. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+cmart604 Posted January 1, 2013 Share Posted January 1, 2013 Wow. I like these right away Carl. Good start I'd say. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SoulBlazer Posted January 1, 2013 Share Posted January 1, 2013 Wow. I like these right away Carl. Good start I'd say. Agree, those seem like very good tiers. Please let us know when the Kickstarter launches. I know we allready talked about in another thread how much was needed and what kind of presentation needs to be made for success. Should there be any stretch goals? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rev Posted January 1, 2013 Share Posted January 1, 2013 Side note: yesterday i shipped 2 games in a 9x6x3 box from georgia to illinois with usps parcal post 3 to 5 day shipping with deliveryconfirmation and it only cost me 4.25. i also shipped a package to canada that was 12x8x2 and weighed 1.1 lbs and 5 to 7 days and it only cost me around 9.75. I think under 1lb to canada is even cheaper if i remember correct. Of course these were ebay shipments and i paid online, i think i get a little discount this way? But you can see that it is still way cheaper to ship stuff from usa. Just as long going out of usa isnt over 4 lbs is isnt that outrageous. Anyone have similar shipping experiences? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rev Posted January 1, 2013 Share Posted January 1, 2013 ok, im no mathmetician, and maybe i dont know all the facts, but what is bringing this game to 45,000 to be produced? Not that im questioning the way you are slicing the pie. but it seems like alot. and if any of that info is not meant to be public, sorry. :-) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bennybingo Posted January 1, 2013 Share Posted January 1, 2013 If I back the $1000 version, I will have to make the Knight's name one of the following: Cmart Rev Voltron etc...(you know...all the usual suspects) This will allow me to eventually sell it to one of them as a "variant" that they don't already have! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IntellivisionDude Posted January 1, 2013 Share Posted January 1, 2013 The weight of the game and the box makes all the difference.For example the copy of Rocky & Bullwinkle i shipped to California only cost me $2.80 Shipping to California is the most expensive place you can ship to from the east cost. But if you keep it light then it's affordable as well. I packed the game good as well, wrapped it good with bubble wrap and placed it an Amazon box. And it weighed only 8 ounces. But i guess there can be different weights in games, boxes and even hefty manuals. R&B has a thin light manual and box. And just for comparison i weighed D2K wrapped in bubble wrap and in a similar sized box and it weighed 10.15 ounces which would cost $4.90 to ship from USA to Canada and $3.31 to ship from me (east coast) to California (west coast). For shipping within the US keep it under 13 ounces and shipping to Canada from the US keep it under 1 pound and you are good to go. And i mean that in general and not just this game. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rev Posted January 1, 2013 Share Posted January 1, 2013 I recently bought a bunch of shipping boxes from someone. They are 9x6x3 and they will hold 2 boxes games perfect. he paid around 30 cents a box. I found the place he got them from, you can order them online at : uline Easy to find, google it. If you buy in bulk it brings the total price down. luckily, i live close to one of their wherehouses maybe an hour-ish from my house. I will prob go pick some up one time if im ever close by. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bennybingo Posted January 1, 2013 Share Posted January 1, 2013 Easy to find, google it. If you buy in bulk it brings the total price down. luckily, i live close to one of their wherehouses maybe an hour-ish from my house. I will prob go pick some up one time if im ever close by. If I end up being able to help out with this release (which I hope I can), I should be able to really help in this area. My company gets incredible rates from Uline, and we don't pay anything to Uline for shipping. Our USPS rates are incredible as well (lots of volume...over 1.5 million packages shipped per month). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+cmart604 Posted January 1, 2013 Share Posted January 1, 2013 If I back the $1000 version, I will have to make the Knight's name one of the following: Cmart Rev Voltron etc...(you know...all the usual suspects) This will allow me to eventually sell it to one of them as a "variant" that they don't already have! Well played sir, well played! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Intymike Posted January 1, 2013 Share Posted January 1, 2013 I think you use the original Amiga version as model for the Intellivision version. Maybe you take a look on the C64 version of DOTC. It has a better gameplay. This would attract eventually more buyers. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Games For Your Intellivision Posted January 1, 2013 Author Share Posted January 1, 2013 $45,000 is an accurate number but it is based on making 500 units.....all shipped to customers from Canada....... I was simply illustrating the problem how how much would have to be charged to recover the investment if a 'realistic' 300 units was all that could be expected to move. I don't want to go into specifics of the costing....but each unit would be about $26 US based on making 500......if we only made 300......the savings on the PCB and shell would probably offset the higher per unit printing costs. ........so, $7,800.......My printer won't make less than 500 boxes, and decreasing numbers increases price per unit......so, the savings on cutting down the printing by 200 units is minimal....and in the case of the box, impossible. Programming was based on 25 a copy for 500 copies.... $12,500 which is approximately $2000 a month for pay. I think you would agree that for taking on a full time job, it isn't minimum wages, but it isn't a huge amount either. I don't think that we can base pay on 25 x 300.....although, we could institute a royalty system that would remunerate the programmer if the game is more successful and sells the other 200 copies...... Labour costs have not been factored in, nor shipping costs. Putting it together with volunteers (I volunteer to glue the boxes together properly and do the labour to prepare them to ship to the assembler in the USA) that cost could be zero.... Shipping and handling from the USA, could probably be done for $10 a copy.......$3000 So, let's see what we have.... 300 Copies of Defender of the Crown ..................$7,800 Programming of Defender of the Crown................$12,500 Shipping and Handling...........................................$3,000 Labour...................................................................$donated Cost per unit based on 300...............................$23,300 / 300 = $78 per unit shipped Rounded up to 80 x 300......$24,000 Kickstarter PLUS the 10 % Kickstarter fee.......Our Goal.....$26,400 to produce 300 copies. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Games For Your Intellivision Posted January 1, 2013 Author Share Posted January 1, 2013 Actually, on second thought, I think I made a math mistake there.......26 per unit would be based on 500 copies......only doing 300, the unit cost per unit would go UP slightly.......probably a couple of dollars.....so, rounding up to 80 shipped was probably the correct number..... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Games For Your Intellivision Posted January 2, 2013 Author Share Posted January 2, 2013 The Defender of the Crown box as it now stands..... Apparently, Cinemaware is going to allow us to use some official art. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+JasonlikesINTV Posted January 2, 2013 Share Posted January 2, 2013 (edited) I would be all over $80 shipped....oh wait, was that the supplier's cost or the end cost to customer? Sweet looking box, BTW! Edited January 2, 2013 by JasonlikesINTV Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Games For Your Intellivision Posted January 2, 2013 Author Share Posted January 2, 2013 That would be the end cost to the user...... It would be contingent upon selling approximately 300 copies.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TrickyMoon Posted January 2, 2013 Share Posted January 2, 2013 I am ok with an $80 price for the game in box. Also think the kickstarter levels Carl listed are reasonable. Oh and I agree with Jason, box looks great. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Games For Your Intellivision Posted January 2, 2013 Author Share Posted January 2, 2013 I am just playing with ideas here.....feel free to make suggestions. I have had a few people volunteer to do shipping.....No particular person has been designated yet. I think having all of the materials shipped to one location, assembled and shipped to backers, would be the smart thing to do.......essentially, all the parts would go to the assembler/shipper/handler, and they would put it together and get it shipped out. The project could pay for a Uline Shrinkwrapping system that could probably be sourced from the $10 Shipping and Handling budget. The assembler/shipper/handler would keep the shrinkwrap system as part of their remuneration. We could get Joe to ship pre-programmed boards and shells to a central location and then carts assembled. I could do box, manual, sticker and overlay printing ...assemble the 300 boxes and ship to the US location. If overlays can not be designed in advance of the game being programmed, we could have PBoland do pretty decent overlays in small quantities on short notice and ship to the central location. Valter is going to ask about official artwork for the box. I will have our artist make the changes to the box PDF......Carl would probably write/produce the manual as part of the programming job. I can get our artist to design suitable overlays. Any fan overlay submission ideas would be welcome for us to consider using. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rev Posted January 2, 2013 Share Posted January 2, 2013 Here is a question, based on your d2k sales. Can you get an idea as to how many people will possibly buy it? .......even taking into account a certain amount of people that ALWAYS buy duplicates. (We know who!) of course you will have non intv people possibly buying this game because they are a dotc fan. So, at least selling 300 copies shouldnt be a huge problem? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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