7800 XM update

[MrBeefy]

An xboard that does pokey? Not one device replaces all of XMs features. Check out the list of fearures reposted 3 or 5 times in the last 2 pages.

How many features other than the high score and sound are going to be used? Wouldnt it be possible to just make a "game genie" like cart that has the pokey amd hsc functions and us that as a passthrough?

 

I remember having this issue when I was almost preordering it years ago. I guess i just need the features explained to me in a dumbed down way or know what's being made or been made that utilizes something on the XM that doesn't revolve just around Pokey, soundchips, or high score saving.

[CPUWIZ]

How many features other than the high score and sound are going to be used? Wouldnt it be possible to just make a "game genie" like cart that has the pokey amd hsc functions and us that as a passthrough?

 

I remember having this issue when I was almost preordering it years ago. I guess i just need the features explained to me in a dumbed down way or know what's being made or been made that utilizes something on the XM that doesn't revolve just around Pokey, soundchips, or high score saving.

 

People have not yet been able to take advantage of all the new features of the module. That should excite you, because not only will it make homebrews cheaper, but you will also get something on your screen, that otherwise would not have been possible before. I can already do things with my VersaBoard 2, that nothing else can do (like SIO comms through the cart), the 7800 potential is awesome. If you discount, that it was made by the devil, of course. I don't wish hardware development for the 7800 on anyone. Also maybe something to keep in mind, when you (not talking about anyone in specific) complain about Fred not being done with XYZ.

 

Can you imagine what will happen, when RevEng exposes all the "new" features of the XM in 7800BASIC?

[CPUWIZ]

Think about it, as it stands right now, between my boards and the XM, a game could be made that is:

 

1MB

128K extra RAM

POKEY

YAMAHA

SIO port

 

With a tiny little PCB.

 

[+Random Terrain]

Think about it, as it stands right now, between my boards and the XM, a game could be made that is:

 

1MB

128K extra RAM

POKEY

YAMAHA

SIO port

 

With a tiny little PCB.

 

 

If they don't come with Command and Option buttons, the deal is off!

[Mayhem]

Managed to find my original XM order email from 2010 last night, so hooray me heh. Wonder where I lie in the scheme of things? Curt still owes me a working High Score cart too, but I'll wait on that until most of these are out of the way!

[Inky]

Think about it, as it stands right now, between my boards and the XM, a game could be made that is:

 

1MB

128K extra RAM

POKEY

YAMAHA

SIO port

 

With a tiny little PCB.

 

 

Now I'm excited for the XM. I'm glad things are finally coming to a head on this.

[+Allan]

I may have asked this years ago but with the ability to use the XEGS keyboard, could the un-released 7800 keyboard software be used with the XM? I know there was a word processor and a BASIC that was written by Bill Wilkinson.

 

Allan

[CPUWIZ]

I may have asked this years ago but with the ability to use the XEGS keyboard, could the un-released 7800 keyboard software be used with the XM? I know there was a word processor and a BASIC that was written by Bill Wilkinson.

 

Allan

 

Probably not without heavily modifying the code, the control is through the joystick ports, not a SIO connector.

[MrBeefy]

 

People have not yet been able to take advantage of all the new features of the module. That should excite you, because not only will it make homebrews cheaper, but you will also get something on your screen, that otherwise would not have been possible before. I can already do things with my VersaBoard 2, that nothing else can do (like SIO comms through the cart), the 7800 potential is awesome. If you discount, that it was made by the devil, of course. I don't wish hardware development for the 7800 on anyone. Also maybe something to keep in mind, when you (not talking about anyone in specific) complain about Fred not being done with XYZ.

 

Can you imagine what will happen, when RevEng exposes all the "new" features of the XM in 7800BASIC?

 

I'm assuming the reason it would make homebrews cheaper is that there would be no need for the Pokey in games like BBCQ? Or is there something else I'm missing with that too? I'm just trying to figure out if a $150 hardware upgrade to a 7800 is worth it especially when I already have CircusAA and BBCQ with Pokey. Not trying to be a Nay Sayer. I would be more concerned that no one is programming with it. There doesn't seem to be as many 7800 brewers pushing out stuff compared to the 2600. The AA store barely has over 15 7800 brew games listed. So assuming it knocks prices down by $10 then I'd have to buy 15 games to make it 'worth it'. I hope it does well and is very compatible with are the different system types. I've been lucky and all homebrews have worked on my 7800 so far. (I did pick up a checp 2nd option years back that I have just in case)

[toiletunes]

There's also high score cart functionality built in. AFAIK there's no readily available replacement for that out there yet. Once programmers start messing around with the Yamaha chip and other features, there will be even more incentive.

With 180 or so preorders, assuming they can crank out 20 units a month, it will take close to a year before these can be ordered by the general public - that's plenty of time to decide if you want one and to save up the cash.

[tep392]

 

 

I'm assuming the reason it would make homebrews cheaper is that there would be no need for the Pokey in games like BBCQ? Or is there something else I'm missing with that too? I'm just trying to figure out if a $150 hardware upgrade to a 7800 is worth it especially when I already have CircusAA and BBCQ with Pokey. Not trying to be a Nay Sayer. I would be more concerned that no one is programming with it. There doesn't seem to be as many 7800 brewers pushing out stuff compared to the 2600. The AA store barely has over 15 7800 brew games listed. So assuming it knocks prices down by $10 then I'd have to buy 15 games to make it 'worth it'. I hope it does well and is very compatible with are the different system types. I've been lucky and all homebrews have worked on my 7800 so far. (I did pick up a checp 2nd option years back that I have just in case)

 

Please tell me were I can get POKEY's for $10. Seriously, I'll buy them out. The POKEY's are easily $15-$20 plus the PLD get's eliminated, saving a couple more dollars. With the shipping to buy the doner BB cart, it's an easy $20 premium for a POKEY cart. The XM also opens the door to games requiring RAM. There aren't any new boards that take SRAM.

[+mytek]

Please tell me were I can get POKEY's for $10. Seriously, I'll buy them out. The POKEY's are easily $15-$20 plus the PLD get's eliminated, saving a couple more dollars. With the shipping to buy the doner BB cart, it's an easy $20 premium for a POKEY cart. The XM also opens the door to games requiring RAM. There aren't any new boards that take SRAM.

 

We could sure use some of those $10 POKEY's for the 1088XEL project as well

[MrBeefy]

Please tell me were I can get POKEY's for $10. Seriously, I'll buy them out. The POKEY's are easily $15-$20 plus the PLD get's eliminated, saving a couple more dollars. With the shipping to buy the doner BB cart, it's an easy $20 premium for a POKEY cart. The XM also opens the door to games requiring RAM. There aren't any new boards that take SRAM.

Guess i should have got those last few ballblazers i was watching on ebay for near 15 or 17 with shipping then.

[+GoldenWheels]

There was actually a guy (gamesandstuff) selling NIB Ballblazers in December (as part of a 7800 general listing, one of those eBay deals where you do the drop down to choose the game) for 10 bucks shipped.

 

I just bought the 8 sealed games 'master package' the guy was selling (including Ballblazer) for 50 bucks. He's out of BB now and is down to more common games for his packs, and he raised his price for the pack. So I assume they sold fast. I'm not saying this is common, normal price for BB does appear to be 15-20, but you have to keep your eyes open on ebay for weird stuff like that that doesn't show up front and center when you search "Ballblazer 7800" (because it was an assortment listing without Ballblazer in the title ).

 

I'll be all over an XM when they roll out for non pre-orders. But I do hope most homebrew games will play on systems with and without XMs. I 'd hate to see 7800 fans split as a homebrew community into haves and have nots.

[MrBeefy]

There was actually a guy (gamesandstuff) selling NIB Ballblazers in December (as part of a 7800 general listing, one of those eBay deals where you do the drop down to choose the game) for 10 bucks shipped.

 

I just bought the 8 sealed games 'master package' the guy was selling (including Ballblazer) for 50 bucks. He's out of BB now and is down to more common games for his packs, and he raised his price for the pack. So I assume they sold fast. I'm not saying this is common, normal price for BB does appear to be 15-20, but you have to keep your eyes open on ebay for weird stuff like that that doesn't show up front and center when you search "Ballblazer 7800" (because it was an assortment listing without Ballblazer in the title ).

 

I'll be all over an XM when they roll out for non pre-orders. But I do hope most homebrew games will play on systems with and without XMs. I 'd hate to see 7800 fans split as a homebrew community into haves and have nots.

That was the other thing i was wondering. Pokey would be a problem but im guessing games made to use the extra RAM would not work on my non XM system.

[+save2600]

 

I'll be all over an XM when they roll out for non pre-orders. But I do hope most homebrew games will play on systems with and without XMs. I 'd hate to see 7800 fans split as a homebrew community into haves and have nots.

It's already kind of that way (haves and have nots) as there's lots of people going without certain enhanced 7800 games. I'm one of them. Same goes with the 7800 flashcarts. None of this stuff is exactly common or made readily available.

 

Pac-Man Collection - enhanced with pokey

Beef Drop - enhanced with pokey

 

...sounds like these games feature code that recognize the Pokey chip in the XM though, so if I'm reading into this right... slap an XM unit atop your 7800 and even games like this get the Pokey treatment (and high score saving if available)? If so, then yeah - will probably be picking up an XM unit when they're made available.

 

And now possibly, Double Dragon is going to get a Pokey sound option and another graphics re-tooling?

[+GoldenWheels]

 

It's already kind of that way (haves and have nots) as there's lots of people going without certain enhanced 7800 games. I'm one of them. Same goes with the 7800 flashcarts. None of this stuff is exactly common or made readily available.

 

 

That's true, at least with something like Beef Drop you've got the (near impossible to find) original pokey version release, and then the cheaper non pokey version, so everyone is covered. This is the kind of support I hope for on the XM, so we don't have split an already small homebrew userbase. I expect some XM exclusives of course but I hope that is the exception and not the rule.

[tep392]

 

That's true, at least with something like Beef Drop you've got the original pokey version release, and then the non pokey version, so everyone is covered. This is the kind of support I hope for on the XM, so we don't have split an already small homebrew userbase. I expect some XM exclusives of course but I hope that is the exception and not the rule.

Beefdrop VE for sure has both POKEY and Standard sound built in. There is a binary posted for the POKEY version of Pac-man Collection but it doesn't have the standard sound. It's a 32k game and there wasn't enough space to include both sound options. The POKEY version was designed to work on a 32k Ballblazer cart. I'm pretty sure that's what Al has used for any POKEY versions of PMC he has sold. I have created a 48K XM version that has both POKEY and Standard TIA built in but didn't release it since I didn't have an XM unit to test it on. Maybe Al can offer it in the store once the XM's start shipping.

 

My intention for D2K is to support both POKEY and TIA so it will work with or without the XM.

[tep392]

Here's a WIP of the ramps screen. I'm starting with it because it's the most demanding in terms of number of moving objects. I'm just working through the graphics code right now. When that's running I'm going to do a strait up conversion of the arcade code so it will play exactly the same. Marco is updating the graphics from what we did in DKXM. If you put it side by side with the XM version you should notice the ramps are more accurate. He just sent me a sample of Donkey Kong that is much improved as well.

 

[haightc]

Since I wasn't on the pre-order I imagine it would be year of more before I would even have the option to purchase this. With this upgrade do we may see games the surpass the 8-bit atari versions. We seen some pretty impressive (re)ports to the 8-bit Atari, it was my understanding the lack of RAM was really making some ports not be possible on the 7800. Would it be possible to do an internal mod versus have a bulky plug in module? The plastic is so brittle on these I am pretty sure both my 7800 case are more tape and glue than plastic. I did by buy one of those NIB Ballblazer cartridges myself, but he sold out real fast. $10 is rare for the cart let alone one brand new in box with shrink-wrap. I already had this game on cart but wanted it for the POKEY to add stereo to my Atari 600xl. It still haven't opened the new ballblazer cart because it seems like blasphemy to open a brand new game just to scrap it for a chip.

[DrSidneyZweibel]

 

People have not yet been able to take advantage of all the new features of the module. That should excite you, because not only will it make homebrews cheaper, but you will also get something on your screen, that otherwise would not have been possible before. I can already do things with my VersaBoard 2, that nothing else can do (like SIO comms through the cart), the 7800 potential is awesome. If you discount, that it was made by the devil, of course. I don't wish hardware development for the 7800 on anyone. Also maybe something to keep in mind, when you (not talking about anyone in specific) complain about Fred not being done with XYZ.

 

Can you imagine what will happen, when RevEng exposes all the "new" features of the XM in 7800BASIC?

If you have to pay $150 in order to save $10 on 3 carts... that's not really cheaper.

 

I'm not trying to knock the XM, and I'm excited that it is finally really coming out, but the savings angle isn't really a good selling point - since you have to pay upfront for games that might never get made. Chicken/Egg.

[Inky]

If you have to pay $150 in order to save $10 on 3 carts... that's not really cheaper.

 

I'm not trying to knock the XM, and I'm excited that it is finally really coming out, but the savings angle isn't really a good selling point - since you have to pay upfront for games that might never get made. Chicken/Egg.

However, that's only one selling point. It has the HSC built in and additional ram which would make it possible to have games on the 7800 , the likes of which have not yet been seen.

[+save2600]

Pokey chip = $10-$20.

Games like Bentley Bear and Super Circus = $55 without Pokey, $70 with.

$15 savings (at least, when going through the AA Store) x 3 carts = $45

...how'd you come up with only $10 on 3 carts? Or do you mean $10 per cart? Still, that's assuming you can find Pokey's for only $10. Pretty tough to do these days, with very few random and lucky exceptions. And then there's the time consuming hassle of desoldering, soldering, assembling a cart, slapping labels on, etc.

[AtariBrian]

Pokey chip = $10-$20.

 

Games like Bentley Bear and Super Circus = $55 without Pokey, $70 with.

 

$15 savings (at least, when going through the AA Store) x 3 carts = $45

 

...how'd you come up with only $10 on 3 carts? Or do you mean $10 per cart? Still, that's assuming you can find Pokey's for only $10. Pretty tough to do these days, with very few random and lucky exceptions. And then there's the time consuming hassle of desoldering, soldering, assembling a cart, slapping labels on, etc.

Plus the money to ship it to AA and plus the money to get the game shipped to you .

[Inky]

The HOKEY, or some sort of replacement for the POKEY, really is needed at this point. I haven't heard anything about the HOKEY recently, but I'm sure it'll come out when it comes out.