Boulder Dash ROM will not be released

[freewheel]

 

Says you. I disagree.

 

Says the entire community. Your contemporaries and your customer base.

 

Insulting everyone by attempting to stand apart is not a great way to build brand loyalty. But don't listen to me, listen to the sales figures of what should have been a record-breaker.

 

Because it sure as hell wasn't piracy that killed BD sales, since it's unbreakable.

[Games For Your Intellivision]

 

The reason BD is repeatedly described as "licensed" is that they (from what's been told) had very little to do with it.

 

Here is where you lose credibility.

 

You have no clue as to how much they were involved or not involved or of anything at all in the contract.

 

You've obviously made your mind up that it is 'licensed' and that 'co-published' is just a term I came up with for posturing.

[freewheel]

 

You've obviously made your mind up that it is 'licensed' and that 'co-published' is just a term I came up with for posturing.

 

Yes. It's almost as if there's plenty of historical precedent behind how these terms are used.

 

Obviously I have no idea how much they were involved, but you've already stated (or I've noticed on my own) that they didn't:

 

a) program it

b) manufacture it

c) market it

d) distribute it

 

What part of "publishing" were they involved in, exactly, beyond accepting a cheque? Providing the source IP? Check. Testing and approving the final product? Check. Exactly the same as Disney with Tron, or Universal with E.T. Both described as "licensed" games.

 

First Star doesn't even have the word "Intellivision" on their BD page: http://www.firststarsoftware.com/boulderdash.htm. You'd think a publisher would want to advertise their wares.

[Games For Your Intellivision]

 

This isn't even close to an obstacle when it comes to dumping carts. Whomever convinced William that this "protects" games is selling snake oil.

 

Plenty of bank-switched carts exist out there, and they've all been dumped. The entire famicom/NES library consists of literally hundreds of bank-switching schemes far more complicated (when taken as a whole) than anything that exists for our puny system. And there remains not a single undumped famicom/NES cart.

 

You obviously don't know what you are talking about. Read 5/11's post. He designs his own carts.

 

We were dumping carts and roms in the 90s

 

You don't think I've ever owned an Intellivision cartridge dumper?

[m-crew]

On a lighter note-Butter Anyone!!!! lol

 

 

[freewheel]

 

You obviously don't know what you are talking about. Read 5/11's post. He designs his own carts.

 

We were dumping carts and roms in the 90s

 

You don't think I've ever owned an Intellivision cartridge dumper?

 

Your argument is that because you can't do it, no one can?

 

I know plenty of what I'm talking about, because every cart in existence has been dumped - once it's been attempted by those who know what they're doing. And whipping out an X-Ray machine is something that's only used in extremely rare situations. The INTV doesn't have anywhere near the horsepower required to implement complex protection mechanisms that require people doing trace-level analysis on ICs.

 

BD has not been dumped because not enough people care, not because you've invented some magical fairy dust that prevents math from working.

[tep392]

Sniffing the communication between the cart and console is trivial with the logic analyzer. The complication that just occured to me would be if the cart's microcontroller performs game functions like animating sprites. Then you would have to get access to the micro code, which is probably not possible.

[freewheel]

I sense a very perverse element of pride in the thought that BD could end up being the least-played INTV game in history.

 

"Physical copies didn't sell very well"

"A ROM release won't happen"

"The cart is undumpable"

 

Almost as if you're *proud* of the fact that very few people will ever play this game that you clearly put a lot of time and effort into. And when people try to disagree with any of these propositions, you vehemently argue with them.

 

It's like walking into opposite land.

[freewheel]

Sniffing the communication between the cart and console is trivial with the logic analyzer. The complication that just occured to me would be if the cart's microcontroller performs game functions like animating sprites. Then you would have to get access to the micro code, which is probably not possible.

 

If the cart's got honest-to-goodness computation going on within it, then it complicates things.

 

But again, these schemes are a dime-a-dozen. And they've all been cracked. You "just" emulate the cart microcontroller (for potentially challenging values of "just" )

[Games For Your Intellivision]

 

Says the entire community. Your contemporaries and your customer base.

 

Insulting everyone by attempting to stand apart is not a great way to build brand loyalty. But don't listen to me, listen to the sales figures of what should have been a record-breaker.

 

Because it sure as hell wasn't piracy that killed BD sales, since it's unbreakable.

 

Trying to stand apart is insulting ?

 

What's 'brand loyalty' got to do with anything if commercial games are 'insulting' to you and the rest of the people on this forum?

 

If bringing out a commercial game is insulting to you then obviously these games aren't wanted by the people on this forum. But, don't assume you speak for my customer base. It is pretty arrogant to think that the only sales I get are from here.

 

I would suggest that a glut of product, not all of it legal, has more than anything to do with Boulder Dash not being 'record-breaking' than any 'insulting' behaviour, But, you don't have to chide me. I didn't lose any money. However, I am surely not motivated to continue to produce 'insulting' product.

[Games For Your Intellivision]

I sense a very perverse element of pride in the thought that BD could end up being the least-played INTV game in history.

 

"Physical copies didn't sell very well"

"A ROM release won't happen"

"The cart is undumpable"

 

Almost as if you're *proud* of the fact that very few people will ever play this game that you clearly put a lot of time and effort into. And when people try to disagree with any of these propositions, you vehemently argue with them.

 

It's like walking into opposite land.

 

You make it sound like I released Blix.

 

The serial numbers are currently in the 200s. Just sayin'

[freewheel]

 

Trying to stand apart is insulting ?

 

 

No, it's your condescending attitude and holier-than-thou outlook that is insulting. Which manifests in your insistence that somehow you stand apart from this community as if the rest of us are the peasants (or the pirates) and you're somehow above all of us. And when we try to include you within the community, you take umbrage at it and insist that you're not a commoner.

 

But if you honestly believe that Space Cunt has cannibalized BD sales, more power to you.

 

Personally I keep waiting for this supposed 'glut' of product to manifest. I honestly don't keep close tabs on the market compared to some. I expected to see 20, 30, 40 games a year for this platform, given how supposedly the community is full of unchecked piracy, it's possible to develop a game on the level of Blix in a matter of days thanks to IntyBASIC, and anyone and their dog can do a "release". But when I saw the sum-total list of INTV homebrew posted the other day, I was a bit stunned. 40 titles? Ever? Seriously?

[freewheel]

 

You make it sound like I released Blix.

 

The serial numbers are currently in the 200s. Just sayin'

 

Blix has been played by many more people at this point.

 

If the sell-through numbers are good, then why are we even having this discussion? A ROM release is literally free money for the publishers here. Costs pennies to host a file.

[Thomas Jentzsch]

Homebrew or not, dumpable or not? Who cares???

 

We should care for the quality of the game, everything else is not even secondary.

[Eric7100]

Just curious... what were all of you like back in kindergarten?

[m-crew]

Just curious... what were all of you like back in kindergarten?

in kindergarten we share , we share ever thing!!!! lol

[1980gamer]

I have NO skin in the game.

 

But just my perspective on Homebrew vs Commercial.

 

Homebrew games could be potentially profitable to the developer. ( I feel this is done purely for the love of the "hobby" )

 

Elektronite paid the developer X dollars upfront. Perhaps additional monies are paid based on volume of sales? I don't know the inner workings.

Where the developer "creates" the code is irrelevant. This is a contract between the parties, period.

 

That is a huge distinction. Clearly this is a commercial venture.

 

Any other factors to me are not really relevant. That fact that First Star is involved doesn't much matter.

 

Many commercial "items" are sold with or without permission,

 

Many companies think it is better to beg forgiveness than ask permission. ( okay, mostly in China ).

 

But that is business ethics, not if the business is a business!

 

Just my perspective.

[Andromeda Stardust]

The data is inside a microcontroller. Reading the data from the cartridge slot will only get you so far, because of the bankswitching - maybe not bankswitching so much, but definitely not all the data is available from the cartridge slot at any given moment. To properly read all the data, you likely need to either read the locked data from the microcontroller somehow, or decap (or possibly x-ray) the part to physically see the bits (I'm guessing this is possible for flash technology, but I'm not 100% sure). You may also be able to remove the locking mechanism after decapping.

At some point, the Intellivision CPU will write some data to the microcontroller, unlocking the key. By capturing the writes to the game cartridge during operation, it will be possible to interpret these values. In fact an expert hacker could go one step further than this without the necessity for reading the bus on an actual console. Even if the hacker could only do a straight dump of the existing bank on the cart, he/she could analyze the assembly instructions contained within the ROM, and if any encryption key exists to decrypt the data behind the microcontroller, ASM instructions would exist to write this value. The hacker would only need to locate this string within the ROM, then write the data back to the bus, to unlock the full program. The game may have to be dumped in pieces, but the decrypted pieces could then be reassembled into a non-encrypted ROM which could work with existing emulators and flash carts.

 

The lid has been opened on Pandora's box. Someone will rise to the challenge and dump this game.

[Andromeda Stardust]

But if you honestly believe that Space Cunt has cannibalized BD sales, more power to you.

"Space Cunt?" Is that some new extraterrestrial venereal disease?

 

Just curious... what were all of you like back in kindergarten?

"Doesn't play well with others..." Maybe that's why I fit in so well here?

 

in kindergarten we share , we share ever thing!!!! lol

But what if a certain person whose name will go unmentioned doesn't want to share his game?

Edited August 16, 2015 by stardust4ever

[pimpmaul69]

in kindergarten we share , we share ever thing!!!! lol

shut up and give me your blue crayon! Edited August 16, 2015 by pimpmaul69

[freewheel]

Just curious... what were all of you like back in kindergarten?

 

Being accused of chasing girls.

 

True story too. Albeit a bit creepy to some.

[Rev]

/

Edited August 16, 2015 by revolutionika

[freewheel]

 

But just my perspective on Homebrew vs Commercial.

 

Homebrew games could be potentially profitable to the developer. ( I feel this is done purely for the love of the "hobby" )

 

 

It's a valid argument.

 

As a homebrewer myself, I've been offered money in advance to do programming. For the exact same hardware and software that I'd do otherwise for fun. It doesn't change what I'm doing in my mind (although it does add incentive). I'm still doing it in my spare time, away from my day job. I still learned how to program the INTV as a hobby. It's still a decades-obsolete hardware platform with an incredibly niche market consisting solely of hobbyists, developed for solely by hobbyists. We have at least one former BSR writing games for it, but I'm pretty sure this isn't his career at this point. I won't speak for him but I hope he wouldn't be offended by being called a hobbyist.

 

It just seems more than a bit different than so-called "real" commercial work. Like someone paying me, you know, actual money to live off while I program for them. Those sorts of contracts get into the 5 figures PDQ. It's not like companies are approaching me on LinkedIn offering INTV programming contracts (THAT would be amazing!)

 

I dunno. Maybe some day someone will actually do it - find some random programmer who isn't a hobbyist, and pay them to learn and program for the INTV as an actual job. I know that to some people the amounts involved are significant, but it's basically pocket change in the commercial programming space. Unless we're hiring from Eastern Europe or India circa 10 years ago. Given the sales volumes on these things and the potential profit margins I doubt anyone's being paid for more than a week or two of fulltime contract work, and based on the quality of the better releases, I have a hard time believing someone learned and programmed a cart in that amount of time. Never mind the testers and other QA types. I'm not 100% sure, but I'm led to believe that that is all volunteer work done by other hobbyists.

 

But what do I know. Maybe the profit margin on these things is $50+/unit and it really only does take 2 weeks of development and QA time across all parties involved to make a quality release. I definitely know I'm not the fastest programmer out there.

[Rev]

http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=dQw4w9WgXcQ

 

Someone just successfully dumped the Boulder Dash rom. Video proof linked.

 

That didn't take long.

[+thegoldenband]

^Wow, I'm especially astonished at the arrogance of the part around 2:29 -- totally unapologetic! But I guess he has the skills to live up to his boast...