Boulder Dash ROM will not be released

[Andromeda Stardust]

Come to think of it there was a reprogrammable cart with DRM features for the Atari VCS from 1982 that had protection against running commercial games which utilized the lockout feature - about half of them. Gamers did a hardware mod to bypass the DRM but it's not necessary anymore since Nukey hacked all of the ROM's to run without DRM

There was no protection scheme on the Atari 2600. Are you sure you're not referring to the 7800, which performs an integrity check upon boot that refuses to load unsigned ROMs?

[GenetixJ]

Mmmm.... I read "shades of gray" and if I had a 'red room' and some zip ties... woozers.

 

I wanted a high priced hooker in Vegas once. She wouldn't come down in price. Even offering her money for the 'digital rom' didn't work. Eh, her property.

[Mr SQL]

There was no protection scheme on the Atari 2600. Are you sure you're not referring to the 7800, which performs an integrity check upon boot that refuses to load unsigned ROMs?

Stardust, I'm talking about the SuperCharger - unless the board or the incompatible ROM's are modified, it will refuse to load them.

 

Tom is right that we don't know for sure if the feature was intended, but I wouldn't be surprised if the manufacturer specifically let Atari know how to use the feature as DRM. If you don't want our RAM board to load your games, just do this. And I can think we can bet Atari took notice on their own (particularly when their ex-top engineers did the project) of a RAM board that could load games from Tape. Can that thing load our cartridge ROM images? Would be a logical question. Tom would indeed take notice if a RAM board came out that could load his BoulderDash image, and he has done so a number of times now - the encore is not the only BD compatible RAM board and that is no croc

 

Tom,

I agree it likely was not intended but form defines function as even bugs can be features and this is not a bug; the board will indeed not load games that utilize the lockout feature and that is DRM.

 

I draw the line of gullibility at fake bugs that supposedly beat grandmasters at Chess

[Andromeda Stardust]

Stardust, I'm talking about the SuperCharger - unless the board or the incompatible ROM's are modified, it will refuse to load them.

 

Tom is right that we don't know for sure if the feature was intended, but I wouldn't be surprised if the manufacturer specifically let Atari know how to use the feature as DRM. If you don't want our RAM board to load your games, just do this. And I can think we can bet Atari took notice on their own (particularly when their ex-top engineers did the project) of a RAM board that could load games from Tape. Can that thing load our cartridge ROM images? Would be a logical question. Tom would indeed take notice if a RAM board came out that could load his BoulderDash image, and he has done so a number of times now - the encore is not the only BD compatible RAM board and that is no croc

 

Tom,

I agree it likely was not intended but form defines function as even bugs can be features and this is not a bug; the board will indeed not load games that utilize the lockout feature and that is DRM.

 

I draw the line of gullibility at fake bugs that supposedly beat grandmasters at Chess

Thanks for clarifying. I do not own a Super Charger and I don't see the need to when I have the Harmony. That's why when a certain homebrewer created a maze-themed game on cassette that only worked with Super Charger, I was a bit miffed that I couldn't play it. The idea was novel but not that many gamers own super chargers so he was limiting his own market considering you can do so much more with cart bankswitching. I only have one tape player left that still works, and it's tied up in my stereo system.

 

So the Super Charger's DRM feature prevented other publisher's games from running on it? Doesn't seem like much of a feature to me. They would probably have sold a lot more if people could have dubbed modem samples of any 4k game to run on it.

 

I think the bigger issue is that 4k games that access a ROM address which activate a bank-switch operation (since the Super Charger had 6kb of RAM storage for games) would crash. Many 4k games utilized every available byte for something, and these games would have failed on the Super Charger by design. To call this incompatibility a form of DRM may be a bit shortsighted.

 

And of course Atari could purposely place data at this address in an attempt to crash the game if run from a Super Charger. Of course later games using 8kb or more of bank-switched ROM were incompatible by default.

[Mr SQL]

Thanks for clarifying. I do not own a Super Charger and I don't see the need to when I have the Harmony. That's why when a certain homebrewer created a maze-themed game on cassette that only worked with Super Charger, I was a bit miffed that I couldn't play it. The idea was novel but not that many gamers own super chargers so he was limiting his own market considering you can do so much more with cart bankswitching. I only have one tape player left that still works, and it's tied up in my stereo system.

 

So the Super Charger's DRM feature prevented other publisher's games from running on it? Doesn't seem like much of a feature to me. They would probably have sold a lot more if people could have dubbed modem samples of any 4k game to run on it.

 

I think the bigger issue is that 4k games that access a ROM address which activate a bank-switch operation (since the Super Charger had 6kb of RAM storage for games) would crash. Many 4k games utilized every available byte for something, and these games would have failed on the Super Charger by design. To call this incompatibility a form of DRM may be a bit shortsighted.

 

And of course Atari could purposely place data at this address in an attempt to crash the game if run from a Super Charger. Of course later games using 8kb or more of bank-switched ROM were incompatible by default.

That ROM address is the only feature that can be used as DRM, it's nearly at the end of memory and 4K games usually don't need to use every last byte. I would bet when the SuperCharger was a hot commodity with those commercials showing the dude buying the cheaper priced Tape games there was some consideration for subsequent 4K releases to not run on it, particularly with the crash frightening the bean counters.

 

I think 6K is actually a lot of memory for a game, it's the RAM that draws contention with the VCS. The SuperChip only gives us an extra 128 bytes but the SuperCharger being a 6K RAM Expansion board opens up alot of possibilities like the maze-themed game you mentioned

 

I was completely unconcerned about the market - the 2014 release on Tape media was about releasing my first game on Tape 30 years earlier; the maze game is since off the market and I've relinquished the ROM, I wouldn't have done that if I had wanted to do another run or I would have just released a teaser ROM that only runs in Stella and not on the Harmony or SuperCharger

[Andromeda Stardust]

That ROM address is the only feature that can be used as DRM, it's nearly at the end of memory and 4K games usually don't need to use every last byte. I would bet when the SuperCharger was a hot commodity with those commercials showing the dude buying the cheaper priced Tape games there was some consideration for subsequent 4K releases to not run on it, particularly with the crash frightening the bean counters.

 

I think 6K is actually a lot of memory for a game, it's the RAM that draws contention with the VCS. The SuperChip only gives us an extra 128 bytes but the SuperCharger being a 6K RAM Expansion board opens up alot of possibilities like the maze-themed game you mentioned

 

I was completely unconcerned about the market - the 2014 release on Tape media was about releasing my first game on Tape 30 years earlier; the maze game is since off the market and I've relinquished the ROM, I wouldn't have done that if I had wanted to do another run or I would have just released a teaser ROM that only runs in Stella and not on the Harmony or SuperCharger

It's okay. My intent was not to upset anyone. I just felt excluded from the initial release because I didn't have the means to play it. But that's like saying I'm excluded from Colecovision homebrew because I don't own a colecovision, etc. I think it's cool you tried something different. I also appreciate that after the game was done and you had sold all the copies you had planned to sell, you released the ROM since no additional profits were to be gained from it.

 

I honestly wish more people would have this type of open attitude, but I respect the author 's decision regardless.

[retroillucid]

It's okay. My intent was not to upset anyone. I just felt excluded from the initial release because I didn't have the means to play it. But that's like saying I'm excluded from Colecovision homebrew because I don't own a colecovision, etc. I think it's cool you tried something different. I also appreciate that after the game was done and you had sold all the copies you had planned to sell, you released the ROM since no additional profits were to be gained from it.

 

I honestly wish more people would have this type of open attitude, but I respect the author 's decision regardless.

You're excluded from Colecovision homebrew because you don't own a Colecovision?

 

How stupid!!???

Geez!

[Andromeda Stardust]

You're excluded from Colecovision homebrew because you don't own a Colecovision?

 

How stupid!!???

Geez!

You are taking my post out of context. I was excluded from an Atari 2600 release (on cassette tape) because I didn't own a Super Charger.

[retroillucid]

You are taking my post out of context. I was excluded from an Atari 2600 release (on cassette tape) because I didn't own a Super Charger.

Ah, ok I see

 

Then I say, you're welcome to the Colecovision Homebrew community!

[Andromeda Stardust]

Ah, ok I see

 

Then I say, you're welcome to the Colecovision Homebrew community!

If I get a Coleco, I'm sure I would buy homebrew for it. I have a metric ton of Atari homebrew, mostly from the AA store.

http://atariage.com/forums/topic/240153-which-homebrew-carts-do-you-own/?p=3285675

[Mr SQL]

You are taking my post out of context. I was excluded from an Atari 2600 release (on cassette tape) because I didn't own a Super Charger.

 

Just to clarify, no one was meant to be excluded - the KC Munchkin ROM accompanied the cassette media, so people could play in the Stella emulator or via the Harmony flashcart as well without having to own a SuperCharger or Cuttle cart. That version of the ROM (R1 and R2) was never released and has different graphics, moire swirls and more artifact color enhancements than the released version of the KC ROM - R3 and the monochrome version.

 

I released the R3 version so that everyone could enjoy the fun game and because I had no further plans to do another production run, but I doubt R1 and R2 will ever surface because the rights to those ROM's are tied to the magnetic media. = simple DRM.

[freewheel]

Pirating a KC Munchkin ROM for the 2600 has so many layers of IP infringement that I'm afraid this thread will implode under its own weight.

[slab0meat]

"It's not pirating... if you believe it"

 

[Andromeda Stardust]

I can play K.C. on the 7800 now, curtesy of Bob and the AA store...

 

I don't see why KC Munchkin got axed. It looks nothing like Pacman. Every other game on VCS was a space shooter or a maxe game...

Edited July 29, 2015 by stardust4ever

[pimpmaul69]

 

Just to clarify, no one was meant to be excluded - the KC Munchkin ROM accompanied the cassette media, so people could play in the Stella emulator or via the Harmony flashcart as well without having to own a SuperCharger or Cuttle cart. That version of the ROM (R1 and R2) was never released and has different graphics, moire swirls and more artifact color enhancements than the released version of the KC ROM - R3 and the monochrome version.

 

I released the R3 version so that everyone could enjoy the fun game and because I had no further plans to do another production run, but I doubt R1 and R2 will ever surface because the rights to those ROM's are tied to the magnetic media. = simple DRM.

i tried playing your kc game and couldnt figure out what i was supposed to do.

[Rev]

"It's not pirating... if you believe it"

 

Do you have a cc3? Do you emulate? Do you have any downloaded music mp3's?

 

Just sayin you better be sqeaky clean if you are making statements like this. Not just in the downloadable media area. But anything illegal.

 

Am I wrong?

[Rev]

So when they continued asking him, he lifted himself up, and said unto them, He that is without sin among you, let him first cast a stone.

[+Andrew Davie]

"It's not pirating... if you believe it"

 

I'd probably disagree with this, if I could actually understand what it means. But I've tried, and as far as I can tell, these are just randomly strung together words, with no meaning.

[Rev]

 

I'd probably disagree with this, if I could actually understand what it means. But I've tried, and as far as I can tell, these are just randomly strung together words, with no meaning.

It is an altered quote from an episode of Seinfeld. George Castanza says in the episode:

 

"Its not a lie, if YOU believe it"

[Thomas Jentzsch]

"Its not a lie, if YOU believe it"

Ok, but still that doesn't it the truth.

[slab0meat]

It is an altered quote from an episode of Seinfeld. George Castanza says in the episode:

 

"Its not a lie, if YOU believe it"

 

THANK YOU... geez, why would I put that picture there if I was just stating my own feeling?

 

 

I pirate old roms. Nothing involving modern gaming or anything like that.

 

I'm hardly squeaky clean, pre-SNES.

 

Or MAME.

[Andromeda Stardust]

So when they continued asking him, he lifted himself up, and said unto them, He that is without sin among you, let him first cast a stone.

And starting with the elders, they all dropped their stones one by one and walked away. And HE said, go in peace and sin no more...

 

Yup. Same principal applies here. Anyone who has downloaded ROMs, MP3s, or other intellectual property illegally off the Internet, even once, has no room to talk regarding other's views on piracy. Before concerning yourself over the speck in your brother's eye, you may want to examine your own eye for the presence of logs...

[Mr SQL]

i tried playing your kc game and couldnt figure out what i was supposed to do.

It's standard KC game rules but Initially the power pill is trapped in orbit somewhere; it's a big maze so finding it can be tricky.

 

I can play K.C. on the 7800 now, curtesy of Bob and the AA store...

 

I don't see why KC Munchkin got axed. It looks nothing like Pacman. Every other game on VCS was a space shooter or a maxe game...

I agree, Atari miscalculated in taking KC to court; the game was a new genre with the changing maze and moving character dots. It's like calling Arkanoid Breakout - they should have come up with their own game of that genre in response, like they did with Breakout 2000.

[Andromeda Stardust]

Arkanoid = Breakout, mostly. The NES version (play it with Vaus controller) has a lot more bells and whistles but the idea is the same. I wish there was a way to wire up my NES Vaus controller to play Arkanoid II Famicom cart.

 

Famicom Vaus used different logic inputs on the EXT connector, while the NES mapped them to D3 and D4 on Controller port 2 like the Zapper. This difference makes Famicom Paddle games incompatible with the US Vaus controller. I have Player 2 wired for Zapper support on my AV Famicom.

Edited July 30, 2015 by stardust4ever

[Ventax1b]

I would normally agree but sometimes its worth it. DK arcade is a great example. The Intellivision version has additional features that, as far as I know, are exclusive. Im not very familiar with Boulder dash but I was hoping for more little "extras" like DK arcade had, programmers should do wnat Carl did more often. The little things really do matter (although in the programming world I do not know how "little" the DK exclusives would be considered) overall though DK really "wow'ed" me, and that doesnt happen often as Ive grown bitter and judgemental now that Im old and yell at kids on my lawn. What is with the price of milk these days anyways, sheesh...

 

Haven't you found the easter eggs in Intellivision Boulder Dash? There are several. Some controller extras and some other stuff that are just a bit hidden.

Edited August 14, 2015 by Ventax1b