townparkradio Posted July 24, 2015 Share Posted July 24, 2015 Thank you! I didn't think they were angry or smug, though -- I'll freely admit I endorse that sentence myself. And that includes my own creations, BTW (and I'm not just speaking hypothetically -- I've had my musical works show up unauthorized in various places). So be it. And if that reality drives folks like Thomas and Groovybee and whosit out of the homebrew scene? So be it. Eventually others will rise up to replace them; or not, and the scene will die. I hope it doesn't die. I've been happy to give my money... pretty much to Carl so far as I can tell from here. He creates products I like at prices I'm willing to pay, and I'd feel pretty bad if the ROM (my copy or someone else's) got out at any point before the ability to buy the ROM vanished... but that's as far as it goes. If I ran into someone who played DKA, but a pirated version.. I'd simply suggest they maybe kick a few bucks along to Carl... but I can;t say much more. After all, though Carl tried his level best to contact Nintendo.... fact is he's not kicking any bucks up to them. We live in gray zones. I just don't think we should be wasting our time pointing fingers at forms of piracy we, personally, do not like. They're going to happen. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
townparkradio Posted July 24, 2015 Share Posted July 24, 2015 (edited) First, you do not know me, you do not know what I do, how I do it, nor what I respect or not. Kettle, meet pot. I remind you that you're only now angry because I turned your own words, intended to hurt, used agianst me, back at you. Edited July 24, 2015 by townparkradio Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andromeda Stardust Posted July 24, 2015 Share Posted July 24, 2015 Changing the subject a bit, I think that all of us have pirated games or game data at some point. The rationale is that if the platform is no longer actively supported, it is fair game. But if the platform is still being actively marketed, then it is okay. Like how it's okay for us to have flash carts for all manner of retro systems, but the moment someone mentions stuff like the R4 (NDS) or mod chips that allow consoles to play burned discs, all hell breaks loose. Also, we belong to a fairly tight knit community that fosters the development, creation, and sale of homebrew games. I think in some ways we develop our own sense of entitlement. For instance, it becomes an issue of man versus the corporate machine. It's all fine and dandy to pirate games released for dead systems originally created by multi-million dollar companies that may or may not still exist. But woe to he who pirates the game of some small fry from within the community. And if we find out who you are, ladies and gents, grab your torches and pitchforks. The retro gaming community is a lot like Robin Hood in a way. Steal from the rich and give to the poor. But is folly to assume it is right to steal in the first place, whether from a multinational corporation worth billions, or from a poor lonely programmer sitting in the dark staring at code on a computer screen. The conglomerate may not even feel the sting, but has just as much right to want it stopped as the small fry. And it gets more complicated from there. Programmers steal from corporations when they attempt to recreate arcade perfect conversions of games that far surpass the original release. And we proudly cheer them on, being highly selective in our choice of whose rights we choose to infringe on. It's not 50 shades of grey. More like 254, because everyone in the community will draw the line in a different spot. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thomas Jentzsch Posted July 24, 2015 Share Posted July 24, 2015 Well, it is obvious that everyone has his own shades of gray when it comes to pirating. No problem with that. But what if one community member pirates the work of another community member? Without any agreement, the pirate dictates his own view (or even ignores it) to the creator. This seems very unfair and unbalanced, no? IMO, inside a community we should play by fair rules, which means not acting against each other. Else there is no community. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+DZ-Jay Posted July 24, 2015 Share Posted July 24, 2015 Kettle, meet pot. I remind you that you're only now angry because I turned your own words, intended to hurt, used agianst me, back at you. You dragged me into this and started preaching. I was on your side and all I mentioned was that YOU said it was "shades of grey" at the same time that YOU are saying "it's all illegal", so it sounded like you meant that it was rather stark black and white if it was really like that. That's all. Words have meaning. Apparently, you interpreted this as me taking some sort of stand and decided to attack me. That wasn't "turning my own words," that was missing the point by a mile, taking some self-righteous stand and assuming that everybody else was naive and stupid and arguing against you. Context, it's a wonderful thing. -dZ. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thomas Jentzsch Posted July 24, 2015 Share Posted July 24, 2015 I suggest that you move this discussion into internal messages. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+DZ-Jay Posted July 24, 2015 Share Posted July 24, 2015 I suggest that you move this discussion into internal messages. I see, you now consider it going off topic? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thomas Jentzsch Posted July 24, 2015 Share Posted July 24, 2015 Getting personal? Yes, in any case. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+DZ-Jay Posted July 24, 2015 Share Posted July 24, 2015 Getting personal? Yes, in any case. It's been personal for a while among many other parties. This thread has been a shitting ground for everybody to post their grievances and many have indulged in finger pointing. Welcome to the Intellivision forum. I didn't turn this personal, I was making an observation -- as many others have -- and was attacked directly, so I responded in kind. Feel free to ignore the topic or continue on your previous tangent. I still hold that the position of "we're all equally pirates, but I just embrace it and you're wrong or stupid for not accepting it" is a self-righteous one. What's missed here is that when I point out that taking an all-out extreme position -- on any side -- is counterproductive and not necessarily correct, I get lumped into the "wrong or stupid" side. It's silly. -dZ. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thomas Jentzsch Posted July 24, 2015 Share Posted July 24, 2015 I was not targeting this too you specifically. With "you" I meant several people in this thread. In German we have different terms for you (single person) and you (multiple persons), maybe that explains my failing English here. Sorry. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ignorama Posted July 24, 2015 Share Posted July 24, 2015 (edited) Pff, these Krauts, starting trouble everywhere! Edited July 24, 2015 by Ignorama Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+DZ-Jay Posted July 24, 2015 Share Posted July 24, 2015 I was not targeting this too you specifically. With "you" I meant several people in this thread. In German we have different terms for you (single person) and you (multiple persons), maybe that explains my failing English here. Sorry. No worries. English is also my second language. Although I seldom have a chance to use my native tongue, Spanish, so I may be losing it. dZ. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Binth Posted July 24, 2015 Share Posted July 24, 2015 This thread needs more bacon! 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+cmart604 Posted July 24, 2015 Share Posted July 24, 2015 This thread needs more bacon! Lol! That's exactly what I was thinking. ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+Lathe26 Posted July 24, 2015 Share Posted July 24, 2015 ... and talking about "shades of grey", here's Bea Arthur! (click to animate) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rev Posted July 24, 2015 Author Share Posted July 24, 2015 Lol! That's exactly what I was thinking. Who asked you. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andromeda Stardust Posted July 24, 2015 Share Posted July 24, 2015 Pff, these Krauts, starting trouble everywhere! Goes good on a Bratwurst. And a nice tall pint glass of Warsteiner! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+cmart604 Posted July 24, 2015 Share Posted July 24, 2015 Who asked you. I hate you. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+save2600 Posted July 24, 2015 Share Posted July 24, 2015 This thread sucks I broke Thanks Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
m-crew Posted July 24, 2015 Share Posted July 24, 2015 ... and talking about "shades of grey", here's Bea Arthur! (click to animate) Bea Arthur.gif lol- yup that sums this tread to a T.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crazy Climber Posted July 24, 2015 Share Posted July 24, 2015 Well, it is obvious that everyone has his own shades of gray when it comes to pirating. No problem with that. But what if one community member pirates the work of another community member? Without any agreement, the pirate dictates his own view (or even ignores it) to the creator. This seems very unfair and unbalanced, no? IMO, inside a community we should play by fair rules, which means not acting against each other. Else there is no community. Well, I have noticed in the Nintendo community once somebody posts a ROM to free domain/etc it is commonly accepted that ANYONE can reproduce and sell that ROM on cartridge for money/profit if they so choose, without asking any permission. Just pointing out that some communities "fair rules" are quite different from ours Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rev Posted July 24, 2015 Author Share Posted July 24, 2015 I hate you. Lol Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr SQL Posted July 24, 2015 Share Posted July 24, 2015 The only other reprogrammable cart with DRM features is the jaguar's SkunkBoard. It has a unique serial number per board and has protection against running one particular homebrew called BattleSphere. Both these features were requested by developers at the time of its conception [1]. Said developers are no longer active in the scene and not a single homebrew game has been released that makes use of the serial number DRM feature. It seems rather prophetic of the Inty scene, with Elektronite hinting at their departure. [1] There have been claims that homebrew piracy was/is rampant in the jag scene. However, no solid evidence has ever been produced with just the insane ramblings and finger pointing of a vocal few (much like the Inty scene to be honest). BattleSphere causes a lot of tension which seems strange for an awesome game but perhaps the backlash against the devs is partially because of the SkunkBoard lockout feature for BattleSphere - ie, that they did not share the ROM for free play. Come to think of it there was a reprogrammable cart with DRM features for the Atari VCS from 1982 that had protection against running commercial games which utilized the lockout feature - about half of them. Gamers did a hardware mod to bypass the DRM but it's not necessary anymore since Nukey hacked all of the ROM's to run without DRM Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GroovyBee Posted July 24, 2015 Share Posted July 24, 2015 BattleSphere causes a lot of tension which seems strange for an awesome game but perhaps the backlash against the devs is partially because of the SkunkBoard lockout feature for BattleSphere - ie, that they did not share the ROM for free play. Nope! The backlash is because the devs were bullshitting asshats. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thomas Jentzsch Posted July 24, 2015 Share Posted July 24, 2015 Come to think of it there was a reprogrammable cart with DRM features for the Atari VCS from 1982 that had protection against running commercial games which utilized the lockout feature - about half of them. Gamers did a hardware mod to bypass the DRM but it's not necessary anymore since Nukey hacked all of the ROM's to run without DRM I don't think unintentional incompatibility qualifies as DRM. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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