Wilmunder's Star Raiders II released

[Keatah]

That's your workaround. You don't have many other options at the moment. They may never get the source code to fix such things.

 

Never say never.

 

As long as the metal oxide is still intact on the platters the data can be retrieved. Electronic parts can be replaced, motors, heads, firmware.. All that.. All that is just "auxiliary" support equipment to read the data patterns in the oxide on the disc surfaces.

 

The best pro data recovery firms have stuff right out of CSI and Sci-Fi laboratories. Bad comes to worse and dicking around with jumpers and switches yields no results, the keeper of the hard drive will want to look up a pro service.

Edited December 21, 2015 by Keatah

[Zoyx]

 

Never say never.

 

As long as the metal oxide is still intact on the platters the data can be retrieved. Electronic parts can be replaced, motors, heads, firmware.. All that.. All that is just "auxiliary" support equipment to read the data patterns in the oxide on the disc surfaces.

 

The best pro data recovery firms have stuff right out of CSI and Sci-Fi laboratories. Bad comes to worse and dicking around with jumpers and switches yields no results, the keeper of the hard drive will want to look up a pro service.

Hope so. After some play-testing and some iterations, this game has some great potential.

[Marco!]

a) "H" Fighters or "Tie fighters". Finally hit me, Tie, as in bow tie fighters. Makes no sense in a galaxy far far away where they don't wear bow ties.

 

The Force is not strong in this one. It's TIE = Twin Ion Engine, designed and built by Sienar Fleet Systems. These craft appear to be in-character as the mass-produced, "expendable" TIE/LN type fighters.

[doctorclu]

 

The Force is not strong in this one. It's TIE = Twin Ion Engine, designed and built by Sienar Fleet Systems. These craft appear to be in-character as the mass-produced, "expendable" TIE/LN type fighters.

 

 

Translation: Lucas Film called them "Tie fighters" because they looked like bow ties, but had to come up with an in-universe reason (TIE = Twin Ion Engine) to call them since no one in that universe wore bow ties.

[Marco!]

 

 

Translation: Lucas Film called them "Tie fighters" because they looked like bow ties, but had to come up with an in-universe reason (TIE = Twin Ion Engine) to call them since no one in that universe wore bow ties.

 

You sir, are a very adept Force user, because you're actually spot on!

[doctorclu]

SHIP TYPES

d) if any ship is taking too long, you could try jumping to another sector and coming back. I have yet to confirm if this game remembers the exact ship type that you leave behind. One theory we could play with is, if you encounter an "A Fighter"/bomber/base star you could jump out, and come back later and have to fight a H or Tie Fighter later. And some of the best chances to kill are when you first reach the sector anyway. Jump in, score some kills, jump out and eventually come back.

 

 

I have since been able to confirm that if you warp out of a sector and back the ship can change.

 

Other more recent observations:

 

PLANETARY BASES

I noticed once that a planet had 19 bases. Then they launched an attack group of 5 ships, and after that I noticed there were 15 bases on that planet. Need to keep an eye on this trend. Is it possible that the planet started at 19 bases, launched 5 fighters and was reduced to 14 bases? When I happened to look back at it they were already up one base (to the 15 I saw)?

 

Do the planets regenerate bases, hitting critical mass, release a group, and then build back up to critical mass?

 

Most of the time I have seen the planetary bases launch groups of 5.

 

RANKING

I've played levels from Novice to Commander and I am just about convinced that it is all about the Starbases you save. Almost across the board I've noticed this trend:

 

3 Star bases left - Warrior ranking

2 Star bases left - Pilot ranking

1 Star base left - Ensign ranking

Loose the Earth, get blown up, or blow yourself up: Fledgling ranking.

 

This would mean that

5 Star bases left - Star Commander ranking

4 Star bases left - Captain ranking

 

I've had games where the 5th Starbase was not destroyed when you started. For that, positions of the Starbase is EVERYTHING. If you can start a game where all the Starbases are to the left enough, you might have a chance.

 

To that end I have an interest to run this cartridge from something other than my incogneto and maybe a burned rom or flash cart. You have to continually restart the game to get the galactic map placement that would give you half a chance at saving the fourth or fifth Starbases.

 

[[ I'm currently checking to see if Star Raiders 2 can be a flash image for the Atarimax flash carts...

 

http://atarimax.com/flashcart/forum/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=1789 ]]

Edited December 22, 2015 by doctorclu

[_The Doctor__]

You are right they build up bases then use the resources on a fighter group then start building back up.....best to nail the enemy bases asap while protecting your own and mop up and at the end or while your on your way between the two!

[doctorclu]

Yep, I was right, save 4 Starbases, get the rank of Captain! (Class 2)

 

Novice (Captain:Class 2) and Pilot (Captain:Class 3) were the same effect for saving four Starbases.

 

So, save 5 Starbases - become a Star Commander apparently.

 

Biggest trick, resetting the game till you get a good placement of Starbases to the left.

20151222_185056.mp4

Edited December 23, 2015 by doctorclu

[doctorclu]

I haven't quite managed a 5 Starbase game, but I did learn some things with the last game I played.

 

The belief is, the Starbase is not saved till all the ships involved in the surrounding are destroyed. This is still true. However, the strategy in this version is different than the original Star Raiders.

 

In the original Star Raiders you wanted to fly in, destroy a sector with 2 or less Zylons, and that would break the surround. In this version I found you want to attack one of the "O" looking groups on the galactic map. I believe the "O" groups can initiate the surround.

 

In the last game I destroyed the "O" groups first, and even went out into space and reduced the "O" groups to ">" groups. (from 7 to 3 or less). Then I destroyed the "N" groups with 4 to 5 ships.

 

This went on for a long while. EVENTUALLY one starbase with a ">" group destroyed one starbase.

 

It took that ">" group quite a while though.

 

In one of the games I saw that it took "O" (7) and a "N" (5) group to start a surround.

[Big_Mo]

Interesting. I'll have to try the game again when I get back home.

 

The funny thing about this game is that so much of what you learn to do in the original Star Raiders ends up being useless in this game. For instance, on the original I am really good at using the instruments to zero in on a distant target, fire some photons just before the ships come into visual range, and nail them when they are specks in the distance. Since the enemy ships pop in at a much larger size, and due to the weird targeting, those skills are worthless in this game. I'm crack shot in Star Raiders, and not at all in this one.

[doctorclu]

I didn't know that Jack Palevich was at Google. He and I would get together with Landon Dyer when they were working on DigDug while I was at Corp Research. ...Jack's wedding gift was a check for the amount of 65 dollars and 2 cents. My wife thought it was odd, but I understood right away.

 

6502... LOL...nice! Just got that.

[doctorclu]

Interesting. I'll have to try the game again when I get back home.

 

The funny thing about this game is that so much of what you learn to do in the original Star Raiders ends up being useless in this game. ...

Let me know how it goes. I'm totally there with you. I loved how you could lock in on the Zylons, fire off the photons, guide the shots to the target, score a kill.

 

In this version you get the impression of approach of enemy craft, but even if you look at the long range scanner those ships are buzzing around like humming birds. You approach a ship, you see it around 240 (older version was around 120). Docking at a station is at 80, older version was what around 10?

 

Then a ship buzzes by you, disappears around -320, then you move him into forward view and the energy is at 500 something. Wild stuff. Plausible and promising, will need more polish.

 

But I'm obviously having a blast.

 

Old strategies and feel:

 

1) Starfield and movement is there, the console look is there.

2) You can cripple the squadrons by reducing them to a less damaging number and leaving the rest (a strategy I used a lot).

3) When you encounter the base star like Zylon with shields you can warp away and come back to fight a easier Zylon. (Another common tactic for me)

4) Sometimes I I jet to a higher speed than the normal Zylon speed to have them trailing behind me for a good aft shot.

5) Fancy graphics aside, having to steer the ship through hyperspace is about the same when you really think about it. (Shame the long range trick in Commander levels doesn't work here like it did in the older Star Raiders.)

 

Targeting and space combat has base similarities, though the movement of the ship and the targeting is different.

 

And the whole surround dynamic is different:

Old: (for those not familiar with Star Raiders reading this) Starbase is surrounded north, south, east, and west by various attack groups. Destroy one group, the Starbase is SAVED! Till it is surrounded on all four sides again. Starbase has about one minute after surrounded alarm notification is given. Once a Starbase is destroyed the Zylons create two new Zylon ships from the wreckage of the Starbase.

 

New: Best I can tell, the Starbase surround is started by a "O" attack group and other attack group types (N or >) till the total number of ships involved is around 12 ships (not quite sure the exact number). Once the surround incident is started the amount of time the Starbase has to survive is based on the combined damage of all ships involved. To slow the rate of damage from the attack hitting the "O" group is primary (You knock out 7 ships with only one warp, verses N+> for 8 ships but two warps, or >+>+> for 9 ships but three warps. Warping uses valuable time. The damage from the surround continues till all ships involved are destroyed.

 

Not yet proven:

STARBASES

-Once a surround starts by a cluster of ships and all original ships are destroyed, another single squadron can approach the Starbase can continue the attack.

-If Starbases can repair themselves from previous damage? Would be nice if we had a way to see the current health of a Starbase.

-I did have one time where I warped in to a Starbase that was surrounded and found Zylons in the sector.

-----Like the planets with bases and how they manufacture Zylon attack groups, I am wondering if a surround group can manufacture Zylon attack groups in the Starbase sector and THAT is how they finally destroy the Starbase?

----- If so, like the bases, once the cluster number reaches 19, an attack group of 5 Zylons is deployed to the Starbase sector. Those 5 Zylons attack the Starbase. The Starbase has weapons systems, but is eventually overwhelmed.

-----The magical number for Zylons manufacturing other Zylons is anything over 14 or 15 combined bases or ships.

 

[[Old vs. New: Strangely the effect is the same. In the old version 2 Zylons ships were made from the wreckage, in the sequel estimated 5 ships are produced and sent into the Starbase sector. In both games Zylons are created.]]

 

Once a "manufacturing setup" is started (on a Zylon planet or Surround group) it seems the Zylons still have the means to make more Zylon ships, even if reduced to only a few bases or ships but the rate of production is less (?).

 

I warped into a ">" group around a Starbase once and fought quite a few more than the standard 3 ships. I believe this is how a single ">" group could eventually kill off a Starbase. That ">" group could SLLOOWWLY produce a strike group.

 

But initially it takes about 12 to start the "manufacturing setup"

 

IRONY:

As humans we say "Don't put your eggs in one basket". In war we have learned the one who can manufacture more weapons at a faster rate than can be destroyed is the formula for winning a war (this was used in World War 2).

 

AND YET... in two games, humans put all their faith in ONE SHIP. (one basket). The Human's strategy shows no improvement.

 

And Zylons have improved and learned as they put their effort into many throw away ships, and in the second game work to out manufacture the quality of destructiveness of one Human ship.

 

Ironic how Zylons have learned what Humans have apparently forgotten.

 

----------------------------

 

I would apologize for the long post, but nah. I had 34 years to get to know Star Raiders (got my Atari 400 in 1981). Been fun exploring this sequel with some similar look and feel. Got the imagination fired up and making up for lost time.

Edited December 23, 2015 by doctorclu

[Lynxpro]

At least with Star Wars Episode VII: The Force Awakens, we now have onscreen evidence as to why Rebel/New Republic/Resistance and Imperial/Imperial Remnant/First Order fighter pilots fly their ships in space as if they were flying in an atmosphere…because they also fly the ships in planetary atmospheres. They just don't change their tactics at all, much like European armies insisting upon fighting in formations on a battlefield until WWI. It's just the right way to do things.

[Keatah]

Flying in space, while natural to material objects and computers, is not natural to the human psyche. Distances and visual cues are really screwy. Therefore the X-Wings are equipped with fly-by-wire to approximate atmosphere flying and make it all natural again.

 

In fact I have a space simulator that adds AFBW to spaceflight.

Edited December 23, 2015 by Keatah

[doctorclu]

Released for the first time today — a holiday present from Aric Wilmunder: the unreleased, almost-finished sequel to Star Raiders for the Atari 8-bits. He created and developed it while working in the R&D lab of Atari coin-op. ...

 

My interview with Aric is published on the ANTIC podcast today. Our discussion of Star Raiders II starts at about the 30 minute mark. http://ataripodcast.libsyn.com/antic-interview-104-aric-wilmunder-star-raiders-ii-temple-of-apshai

 

-Kevin

 

Finally listened to this! Was trying to find more information about Star Raiders 2 and was like "oh yeh, the podcast..." Was a lot of fun to listen to. I heard the hesitation in Aric's voice about releasing this. Would it be accepted? Would it be judged? I think we have done both in a positive way.

 

We love it, and imagine what we would like to see it polished up more.

 

But you know what is crazy about that?

I spent hours dreaming of how the original Star Raiders could be better.

 

I dreamed of flying to planets (seriously!) and more detailed Starbases. Sometimes I think back on those thoughts and wonder if I've seen this game before. Of course I didn't, but it is truly close to what I dreamed a sequel would be.

 

After the holidays maybe we can get some folks with Corvus experience we've lined up to get with you and RedEye and get those source files.

 

Thanks for this holiday gift and Merry Christmas and all to you as well. I feel like I'm back in 1982 (when I first started playing Star Raiders) and that excitement is a great gift indeed.

[kiwilove]

.....

Thanks for this holiday gift and Merry Christmas and all to you as well. I feel like I'm back in 1982 (when I first started playing Star Raiders) and that excitement is a great gift indeed.

Is 1982? the earliest date here - for folks who played Star Raiders back in the day? With it copyrighted 1979 - I don't

think it was ever on sale in 1979 - but maybe December 1980? at the earliest? Or was that 1981?

 

Harvey

[doctorclu]

I've been looking around the interwebs and so far the release date was 1979. I can believe this.

 

This site says November 1, 1979 for the Atari 400 so a Christmas release. And that Christmas according to that site you could have flown around the galaxy and destroyed Zylons for nearly $1,700 in today's dollars.

 

I saw this as a kid around that time demoed at an electronics store in Dallas.

[Heaven/TQA]

I love this thread... For having people moning about the "unfinished version" I must admit you guys have a lot of fun... So mission accomplished

[doctorclu]

CARTRIDGE VERSION

 

For those wanting a cartridge version of Star Raiders 2, here is what Steve from Atarimax.com had to say:

 

 

Hi Doctor Clu,

 

If you only want to put a single 21k file on the cart I would suggest you use the 1mbit flash cartridge. You can either put it as the only item on the menu, or enable the option that just starts the cartridge directly from the EXE and skips the menu display all together.

 

You can make your own image by downloading the Maxflash Studio software at:

 

http://www.atarimax.com/flashcart/

 

Just create a new workbook, add the game and save the workbook. You can either program the cartridge via the Synchronize function, if you have a USB Programmer, or by exporting the image on the File->Export menu to an ATR image for in-system programming.

 

If you don't really want to make your own carts I will be happy to pre-program a 1mbit cartridge for you with the XEX file you want on it, just send it to me as an attachment.

 

The 1mbit cartridge is $24.99 with free shipping. There is no additional charge for pre-progamming it for you.

 

My PayPal address is classics@atarimax.com. If you have any questions please let me know. :-)

 

Thanks!

 

Steve

--

Edited December 24, 2015 by doctorclu

[kiwilove]

I've been looking around the interwebs and so far the release date was 1979. I can believe this.

 

This site says November 1, 1979 for the Atari 400 so a Christmas release. And that Christmas according to that site you could have flown around the galaxy and destroyed Zylons for nearly $1,700 in today's dollars.

 

I saw this as a kid around that time demoed at an electronics store in Dallas.

I seriously doubt if the Atari 400/800 computers with Star Raiders were available in December 1979 (That this is more of an announcement / advertising date) - ie. on general sale then, and I suspect it was the following year in 1980 that stores would have it in stock? And you probably need to add another year for overseas - eg. the UK.

 

Harvey

[FifthPlayer]

CARTRIDGE VERSION

 

For those wanting a cartridge version of Star Raiders 2, here is what Steve from Atarimax.com had to say:

You can make your own image by downloading the Maxflash Studio software at:

 

http://www.atarimax.com/flashcart/

 

Just create a new workbook, add the game and save the workbook. You can either program the cartridge via the Synchronize function, if you have a USB Programmer, or by exporting the image on the File->Export menu to an ATR image for in-system programming.

 

 

I've done this with an 8mbit AtariMax cart. I've put Star Raiders II on it, along with OG Star Raiders (phaeron fastdiv version), as well as all of the ROM hacks I could find on the forums (DKJr. Arcade, Popeye Arcade, Dig Dug Arcade, Q*Bert Arcade, Atari Pac-Man Arcade, Pac-Man Arcade, Ms. Pac-Man Arcade, etc.etc.) I think the cart is half full and they all seem to run nicely from cart, including SR II.

[Shannon]

 

 

I've done this with an 8mbit AtariMax cart. I've put Star Raiders II on it, along with OG Star Raiders (phaeron fastdiv version), as well as all of the ROM hacks I could find on the forums (DKJr. Arcade, Popeye Arcade, Dig Dug Arcade, Q*Bert Arcade, Atari Pac-Man Arcade, Pac-Man Arcade, Ms. Pac-Man Arcade, etc.etc.) I think the cart is half full and they all seem to run nicely from cart, including SR II.

 

Did a quick hunt for the aforementined "Arcade" ROM hacks and just wanted to verify I found the correct versions..

 

Here are the threads I found..

 

http://atariage.com/forums/topic/242598-dig-dug-1983-graphic-improvements/

http://atariage.com/forums/topic/242868-q-bert-fixed-feetlegs/

http://atariage.com/forums/topic/190746-pac-man-update-for-atari-8-bit/page-1

http://atariage.com/forums/topic/196992-8bit-pac-man-arcade-final-version-accepting-orders/

http://atariage.com/forums/topic/224729-ms-pac-man-with-enhancements/page-2

 

Also by etc. etc. were there more than you mentioned? I also noticed that the dig dug, q-bert and ms. pac-man still seem to be works in progress.

[FifthPlayer]

 

Did a quick hunt for the aforementined "Arcade" ROM hacks and just wanted to verify I found the correct versions..

 

Here are the threads I found..

 

Also by etc. etc. were there more than you mentioned? I also noticed that the dig dug, q-bert and ms. pac-man still seem to be works in progress.

 

I've started a new thread listing all the games I found, with links. I also included the AtariMax images so you can burn your own multicart.

 

http://atariage.com/forums/topic/247123-atari-rom-hacks-atarimax-cart-image/

 

Indeed some of the games are still works in progress, in which case I grabbed the latest I could find.

Edited December 25, 2015 by FifthPlayer

[Shannon]

Thanks man... I was checking out the pac-man and ms-pacman ROMs yesterday. I did not realize that the pac-man arcade was updated since I originally got it.

[ledzep]

 

Finally listened to this! Was trying to find more information about Star Raiders 2 and was like "oh yeh, the podcast..." Was a lot of fun to listen to. I heard the hesitation in Aric's voice about releasing this. Would it be accepted? Would it be judged? I think we have done both in a positive way.

 

We love it, and imagine what we would like to see it polished up more.

 

But you know what is crazy about that?

I spent hours dreaming of how the original Star Raiders could be better.

 

I dreamed of flying to planets (seriously!) and more detailed Starbases. Sometimes I think back on those thoughts and wonder if I've seen this game before. Of course I didn't, but it is truly close to what I dreamed a sequel would be.

 

After the holidays maybe we can get some folks with Corvus experience we've lined up to get with you and RedEye and get those source files.

 

Thanks for this holiday gift and Merry Christmas and all to you as well. I feel like I'm back in 1982 (when I first started playing Star Raiders) and that excitement is a great gift indeed.

 

I'm wondering/hoping that, god willing and the river don't rise, the information on that disk can be retrieved and Aric can complete the game the way he remembers he was going to - in much the same way that Tempest was completed for the 5200 by its original programmer. It would be fantastic to play the completed game as originally envisioned. I would happily pay for a boxed cart version for it, too! I hope Santa is reading this thread.