jaybird3rd Posted July 19, 2016 Share Posted July 19, 2016 Second. Shawn seems to have something personal against Piko. I won't support the KS as I'm not interested, but I'll wish them the best. Yeah, I don't have much patience for people who grouse about someone else on a public message board but won't specifically spell out what their beef is. If there are objective criticisms to be made about what Piko is doing, then speak up and say what they are (in the appropriate thread); if it's personal, then keep your silence, because it's none of our business and there's nothing we can do about it anyway. For whatever it's worth, I think that what Piko Interactive is doing is smart on two levels. First, they're using Kickstarter in exactly the way it was supposed to be used: they're an experienced business gauging interest in a new venture, not some knucklehead with big dreams starting with nothing and looking for donors to absorb all the risk. Second, they're leveraging their own properties and going after the small but lucrative faith-based market. I am totally not a part of that market, but earlier in my life when I was much closer to it, I saw that churchgoers would gladly go into a Christian bookstore and buy a pack of pens with Bible verses printed on them for four times the price that the same pens (minus the Bible verses) would have cost at Wal-Mart. It isn't widely known, but you can make some very healthy margins in that market if the people in it perceive you to be "one of their own," because when they make their purchasing decisions, they also see themselves as making a statement with their dollars. Piko will probably even get some interest from the mainstream audience. Considering the limited distribution that the Wisdom Tree games enjoyed when they were new, a surprising number of people seem to remember throwing Baby Moses around and carrying a stack of farm animals into the Ark in Bible Adventures. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tep392 Posted July 19, 2016 Share Posted July 19, 2016 they're an experienced business gauging interest in a new venture, not some knucklehead with big dreams starting with nothing and looking for donors to absorb all the risk. This is the key reason Piko and MK cannot be compared. If enough people back this and goal is met, there's little risk it won't happen. 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SoulBlazer Posted July 19, 2016 Share Posted July 19, 2016 Speaking about Kickstarter, I guess I've backed more on there then I thought. Just got this e-mail: Congratulations, you’re a Superbacker on Kickstarter! We recently launched a new initiative to recognize backers who have helped hundreds of independent creators bring their new and exciting ideas to life. Thanks to your curiosity, passion, and generosity, thousands of amazing, weird, cool, and unexpected things exist in the world. As a Superbacker, you can expect: A Superbacker badge on your profile and in comments. If you want to keep your status hidden, let us know at superbackers@kickstarter.com. Exclusive invites to events with creators and the Kickstarter team throughout the year. Stay tuned! A Superbacker newsletter with inside news from Kickstarter, opportunities to provide feedback to our team, and other Superbacker exclusives. This is just the beginning. We’ll be experimenting, learning, and listening as we go, so stay tuned and thanks for being such an amazing part of our community. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Newsdee Posted July 20, 2016 Share Posted July 20, 2016 They could give you a discount... this sounds like a way to get people to spend more by hyping up the platform. Well, nothing new under the sun Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Newsdee Posted July 20, 2016 Share Posted July 20, 2016 (edited) (duplicate post) Edited July 20, 2016 by Newsdee Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MagnaRyuu Posted July 20, 2016 Share Posted July 20, 2016 Holy shit has it gotten to the point where we are out of MK material that now someone has set their sights on another member of this forum? It's kind of like a snake eating itself. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cybercylon Posted July 20, 2016 Share Posted July 20, 2016 I am not really interested in Piko's product for the kick starter, but I don't get the personal attack or how it compares to the MK shenanigans at all. Maybe this thread had gone beyond running it's course. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jaybird3rd Posted July 20, 2016 Share Posted July 20, 2016 Maybe this thread had gone beyond running it's course. But if we close it, how else is Mike going to keep us updated on his brave quest to get his money back from The Mysterious Mr. Lee? I bet Mike is out there right now, working night and day to hunt that scammer down ... not just for himself, but for all of us. He's doing the Lord's work! 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keatah Posted July 20, 2016 Share Posted July 20, 2016 Maybe this thread had gone beyond running it's course. It has. Many moons ago. All it is now is a witch hunt waiting to happen. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shawnphase Posted July 20, 2016 Share Posted July 20, 2016 it is less of a personal attack and more of me pointing out how easily duped anyone can be are when someone brings a subpar product to 'market' that seems unique but really is not. this thing already exists. piko is using existing technology to make a name for himself, and using kickstarter to foot the bill. its not exactly deceitful, its duplicitous in that its nothing new. i could give a cock what games piko brings to market personally, if he brings some good ones, thats fine, if he brings more stinkers like this drek, well, thats fine too i guess. but if you cant see that he's the same kind of huckster mk is, well i really donno what to say. again, i have nothing personally against piko, have never bought anything from piko, and definitely never would...and its because he chooses to utilize his company's time in doing cheap knockoff cashgrab bullshit like this. which when you get down to it, again, is the same shit mk was attempting to do. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
godslabrat Posted July 20, 2016 Share Posted July 20, 2016 Polo isn't the same as Mike Kennedy. As you've already pointed out, Piko's product actually exists. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Newsdee Posted July 20, 2016 Share Posted July 20, 2016 (edited) Well let's compare: Funding Goals Wisdom Tree: about 17K RVGS funding: 2 million Announced Specs WT: a type of famiclone RVGS: "whatever you want it to be (with carts and no DLC ever!)" Funding Platform WT: Kickstarter RVGS: IGG because couldn't meet KS standards Intended Audience WT: Religious gamers (and relatives) RVGS: "corner the retro game market" Prototype WT: live demo of it assembled in a generic case (probably random famiclone with hacked ROM) RVGS: "can't show you because somebody will steal our IP. We can move a window on screen though" Developers: WT: first party only, fixed game list on release. All 6 already exist. RVGS: third party only, vague game list "we have Konami and here's the emails to prove it" What Happens If The Funding Fails WT: product might not get made. ROM sold elsewhere. RVGS: company in shambles and all interested parties abandon ship The problem of the RVGS wasn't that it was duplicitous for being nothing new, but because it was nothing defined concretely by people without a clue about hardware (mostly admitted by themselves). At least the WT device can be criticized on its own merits for what it is. Edited July 20, 2016 by Newsdee 7 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chuck D. Head Posted July 20, 2016 Share Posted July 20, 2016 Ok, point well made; this thing isn't needed because it already exists. I will just pop over to eBay and snag the first Bible Time Voyager I see......oh wait, no listings. Oh, well I am sure one will pop up soon. Let me see if any have been sold recently.....nope, not in the last 60 days. My gosh, let me search 15 pages deep on Google for one for sale....aha! One sold on eBay in Jan of 2014. It was a total of just under $45 shipped, which makes this version not only a viable product, but a bargain at the early bird level. Search around, you may find a couple more, but nowhere near enough to meet what interest is already pledged to the project. Everyone knows these aren't great games. The point is some people will have fun with it, because they like oddball things or just have a morbid curiosity for cheesy entertainment. Remember Mystery Science Theater 2000? It thrived on having fun with wretched movies. When they did the MST3K on Manos, Hands of Fate, a deliciously terrible movie, it created an additional market and they released the original movie on DVD, even through it was sub-par crap, and it sold very well. Did movie buyers need you to save them? No, they knew damn well what they were getting. Go find something to be happy about, even if it isn't here. 10 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jaybird3rd Posted July 20, 2016 Share Posted July 20, 2016 I don't see how there's anything "duplicitous" or "deceitful" about what Piko Interactive is doing. They're taking an existing platform (an embedded NES clone), existing game properties (the Wisdom Tree titles), bundling them together in a Plug-and-Play system, and being very up-front about what they're offering. Countless other companies have done similar systems based on other games, and even the plastic tooling is readily available. There's no mystery, nothing unduly novel or risky, and everybody who pledges their support knows ahead of time exactly what they're getting. If they're not already familiar with the games, they can learn all about them (including their value and availability) with a quick search before they pledge. So, who exactly is being "duped"? To say that Eli is a "huckster" or "isn't any better than Mike Kennedy" is just absurd. 9 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shawnphase Posted July 20, 2016 Share Posted July 20, 2016 the scale of this kickstarter vs mk's potential kickstarter, when you look at it, is pretty similar...how much can these dumb controllers cost to churn out? $3 a pop, max? sell them for $33? meh, whatever. support eli if you wish, but hey...this is crap. he is going to kickstarter looking for money, like mike, and is not showing any prototype. at least no prototype he made. im not gonna discuss this any further or get into any more of this drek because enough of my time has been sucked up by this whole mike kennedy/mr lee/piko canon, but ill just say this and leave it at that: what piko does is very cheesy. hes complicit in the same kind of greyzone scamming crap that mike engages in. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jaybird3rd Posted July 20, 2016 Share Posted July 20, 2016 First of all, we have no idea what Piko's bill of materials cost will be, but since these controllers will likely be produced in lower quantities than something like the Jakks Pacific products, it's reasonable to expect that the costs will be higher. Not that it matters; they're under no obligation to charge only as much as it costs to make these controllers, and if anyone feels that their MSRP is too high, they always have the option not to buy it.Second, OF COURSE they're "going to Kickstarter looking for money"! Why the hell else would anyone go to Kickstarter??? As for the prototype issue: the reason we placed such emphasis on a prototype for the RVGS/Chameleon is because there were many doubts about the technical feasibility of what Mike was promising as well as Mike's ability to deliver a workable product. Here, there are no such doubts: both the hardware and software are already done, both are well-understood, and the expertise needed to put them together into a product is readily available. The prototype they showed was enough to satisfy Kickstarter's requirements (otherwise, they would not be on Kickstarter), so why isn't it enough to satisfy you?Third, you keep using the term "scam." How, exactly, is Piko "scamming" anyone? Is Eli promising something impossible? Is he promising something that he won't be able to deliver because he doesn't own the necessary rights? Is he refusing to provide relevant information about what he is offering? No, to all of the above. So please stop accusing Piko of being a "scammer" on Mike Kennedy's level unless you can back it up. 6 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hookem Posted July 20, 2016 Share Posted July 20, 2016 im not gonna discuss this any further or get into any more of this drek because enough of my time has been sucked up Probably the smartest thing I've read from you. Follow MK's lead. 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keatah Posted July 20, 2016 Share Posted July 20, 2016 The only surefire way to avoid time wasting and possible scamming is to avoid kickstarter type stuff. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
leods Posted July 20, 2016 Share Posted July 20, 2016 (edited) Nothing wrong with piko trying to make money doing stuff that isn't ilegal and all, but you kinda have to be a moron to back his project. Just saying... Edited July 20, 2016 by leods Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
carlsson Posted July 20, 2016 Share Posted July 20, 2016 (edited) Congratulations, you’re a Superbacker on Kickstarter! Will the next level of support be called a Quarterbacker? Edited July 20, 2016 by carlsson 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
UKMike Posted July 20, 2016 Share Posted July 20, 2016 Third point, I am getting sick and tired of everybody wanting money. I have listened to a BUNCH of podcasts over the years, and ever since all this crowdfunding started, half of them are trying their luck at getting money. Retronauts anyone? Hey, we made a show and then didn't. Send us money to make a show. Probably the smartest thing I've read from you. Follow MK's lead. If only it had capital letters.............. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AE35 Posted July 20, 2016 Share Posted July 20, 2016 Retronauts anyone? Hey, we made a show and then didn't. Send us money to make a show. Yeah, Retronauts is a good example. I ran a podcast from 2008 - 2012, maybe I should make a kickstarter to bring it back!! On that note, does anybody have any podcast recommendations? I'm on pseudo-vacation now, and could use some. I listen to DLC, Gamers With Jobs, Three Moves Ahead, Splattercast and some others. I still miss Twitch Asylum EVERY SINGLE DAY Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jaybird3rd Posted July 20, 2016 Share Posted July 20, 2016 On that note, does anybody have any podcast recommendations? One new podcast that I can highly recommend is Will Cladley's "Retro Critical" podcast. Those who have been following the RVGS/Chameleon saga will remember that he produced the popular "Nostalgia SH-IT" parody videos, linked earlier in this very thread. He started "Retro Critical" shortly afterward, and has produced seven episodes so far. They're all on his YouTube channel (see here), and I believe on iTunes as well. I'd love to see it get more listeners, so please give it a try! 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AE35 Posted July 20, 2016 Share Posted July 20, 2016 I'm on it!! Thanks! 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PlaysWithWolves Posted July 20, 2016 Share Posted July 20, 2016 Nothing wrong with piko trying to make money doing stuff that isn't ilegal and all, but you kinda have to be a moron to back his project. Just saying... It doesn't matter what we fee about the games; just what a niche market feels. Pretty lame to call people morons over it, though; let them have fun doing what they want to do. I could call Pokemon Go fans morons for several reasons, but I don't even feel that way because ultimately it gets them through another day in this PITA called life. 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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