+GoldLeader Posted January 22, 2017 Share Posted January 22, 2017 I'm just here to debate what "Back" means...LOL 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StopDrop&Retro Posted January 22, 2017 Share Posted January 22, 2017 To be fair, Mike's bull crap was the variety that might actually sound good to someone outside the hobby. Which is why, if you are truly invested in your brand and want to protect it, you get people with at least a hobbyist level of interest to vet these projects that you're eventually going to push onto the public. Mike preyed on River West Brands' ignorance for sure, but it was RWB who were careless enough to get their brand entangled in his shit show. We also know that Mike sat down with Konami and they were not persuaded by him so it's not like he had some sort of supernatural power over people, this is all on RWB who expected to make a quick buck. With the Chameleon, the worst case scenario in licensing actually happened. This is exactly why companies are so militantly protective of their IPs. It's so that they don't get lured in by a starry eyed dreamer who has absolutely no competence to make good on any of his promises. The Coleco name was damaged by Mike's antics but let's not pretend like they hold no blame here. The warning signs were always there, they joined him after his IndieGoGo disaster, and a simple Google search would have directed them to the old thread here. If letting Mike put your brand name front and center on his project isn't the definition of careless then I don't know what is. 9 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flojomojo Posted January 22, 2017 Share Posted January 22, 2017 To be fair, Mike's bull crap was the variety that might actually sound good to someone outside the hobby. If you didn't know squat about pre-Xbox video games and didn't have the luxury of knowing about Mike's later lies (SnesJag, DVR) then it might have sounded believable that the RVGS was a viable concept that just didn't have enough funding or publicity. It's geeks like us that knew enough to say "There are no real specs" and "There are a dozen real products on the market today that can already do this." I don't think so ... any manager worth a damn should have been able to smell the stench of desperate bullshit in anything Mike Kennedy said -- we could see it from the outside right away. He shouldn't have been allowed anywhere near the Coleco brand without having a solid, working, genuine prototype to stick it on. I think they performed honorably once they got rid of him, but it took way too long for them to get there. 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
elmer Posted January 22, 2017 Share Posted January 22, 2017 To be fair, Mike's bull crap was the variety that might actually sound good to someone outside the hobby. If you didn't know squat about pre-Xbox video games ... Which is why, if you are truly invested in your brand and want to protect it, you get people with at least a hobbyist level of interest to vet these projects that you're eventually going to push onto the public. Don't forget ... "In fact, through his book imprint, Cardillo Publishing, Cardillo has released two collectors guide: The Complete Guide to Collecting Nintendo Entertainment System Video Games as well as Collecting & Completing Your G.I. Joe Figures and Accessories in collaboration with James DeSimone." http://www.paramuspost.com/article.php/20151116193122623 The Complete Guide to Collecting Nintendo Entertainment System (Nes) Video Games by Chris Cardillo (Author, Photographer), Tim Atwood (Photographer) http://www.amazon.com/Complete-Collecting-Nintendo-Entertainment-System/dp/0974582735 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StopDrop&Retro Posted January 23, 2017 Share Posted January 23, 2017 I also like how it's described as "unabridged" but the thing is 40 pages long and according to this review, doesn't even include every NES game. I expect the "abridged" version to include only Tengen games. Plus, hasn't there been at least one Kickstarter campaign that tried to collect all NES/SNES box art and they were shut down by Nintendo? 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Newsdee Posted January 23, 2017 Share Posted January 23, 2017 (edited) (edit: SD&R posted it better) Edited January 23, 2017 by Newsdee Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andromeda Stardust Posted January 23, 2017 Share Posted January 23, 2017 Every time the big man opened his yap was pure comedy genius. This was my favorite: All together now: Coleco Is Back.jpg Needs a sound byte. I can't read sheet music. Somebody please sing this in an mp3. Good singing voice optional. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
UKMike Posted January 23, 2017 Share Posted January 23, 2017 Yes Coleco could have done more homework or turned him down. The first company he went to did just that. Once the Toy Fair was over the writing really was on the wall with Cokeco but they did it the right way and gave him time to disprove their fears, which of course he couldn't. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
carlsson Posted January 23, 2017 Share Posted January 23, 2017 Didn't people from the Colecovision community already communicate with RWB long before the Chameleon? Thus they should have a fair deal of reference persons to sign NDA's with, in case they wanted to evaluate the possibilities before going ahead with the RVGS. Of course that is assuming they were willing to listen, or just put fingers in their ears and went la-la-la. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flojomojo Posted January 23, 2017 Share Posted January 23, 2017 My other favorite part of this thread was when I got to play amateur prosecutor, and the big guy attempted to answer my questions, due to popular demand (thanks all!) Didn't people from the Colecovision community already communicate with RWB long before the Chameleon? Thus they should have a fair deal of reference persons to sign NDA's with, in case they wanted to evaluate the possibilities before going ahead with the RVGS. Of course that is assuming they were willing to listen, or just put fingers in their ears and went la-la-la. According to him: 2. Did you ever actually have the rights to make any of the games you featured in the Chameleon sizzle reel, such as the Intellivision and Colecovision multi-packs? What was the nature of the contract, if any (percentage of sales, up-front licensing, etc)? Did you tell Gizmodo that you had rights to Atari properties? If not, who did? Of course. Keith Robinson is a personal friend of mine and was excited to have an Intelli multicart on the system from the start. Remember, I thought I had bought an Intelli FPGA from Sean and he told me he was getting Intelli games running on our software/hardware. For Coleco we were lined up to either attempt to buy the FPGA core from Kevin or license the emulator from Oscar - CoolCV. Coleco being a partner obviously wanted a multi cart available for launch as well. So yes, these were both real collections coming on the system from the start. The reporter from Gizmodo happened to be in our booth waiting to interview us while we were all having a lengthy conversation with Atari who had come to the show specifically to talk with us. They wanted to have a multi cart available at the launch of the Kickstarter as well and we all shook on it in the booth - Ben, Chris and myself. She heard the whole thing. It was then after the show we were in further discussions with them when they said to do this they would need a guarantee upfront of like $50K to do the deal -- something they didn't mention in our booth. We were in the process of working through this when the clear proto fake was shown which ultimate ended all communications with them. And they weren't happy with the news of the SNES in a shell, obviously. 3. What were the plans for the USB versions of Colecovision and Intellivision controllers that never came to light? We were going to contract with Interworks Unlimited to create these controllers. 4. Why was Coleco Holdings led to believe there was a viable product in that shiny Jaguar shell? Should they have gone to the expense of printing flyers and sharing their booth with you at Toy Fair? We were all led to believe this. If I had known before going to the show that my $4k that I paid Sean in January was getting me a SNES in a shell, I wouldn't have gone to the show and cancelled. It was a big expense and it was very public. It was the start of the end and what has led to the uncovering of Sean's ways. We had no reason to distrust him at that time, remember. There's a lesson here. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
godslabrat Posted January 23, 2017 Share Posted January 23, 2017 My other favorite part of this thread was when I got to play amateur prosecutor, and the big guy attempted to answer my questions, due to popular demand (thanks all!) According to him: There's a lesson here. 890df80a1ca19119894b4758a8d354c8.jpg That was GLORIOUS. The Kennedy Defense Post just cements the case against Mike. He goes out of his way to paint himself as the victim, to claim he knew nothing of what was going on with his prototypes. And yet, if you compare that with his words from several months prior, Mike speaks authoritatively on how far along their prototypes are, and makes very concrete promises as to what the system will deliver. Promises he had NO business making if he hadn't seen an actual prototype or looked under the hood. So if you accept the KDP at face value, Mike comes out of it looking like a total liar. Really, any interpretation of the events shows Mike to be a liar, the only disputable part was what he was lying about at any given time. 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gentlegamer Posted January 23, 2017 Share Posted January 23, 2017 I want to thank MK and this thread for all the lulz. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keatah Posted January 23, 2017 Share Posted January 23, 2017 Didn't people from the Colecovision community already communicate with RWB long before the Chameleon? Thus they should have a fair deal of reference persons to sign NDA's with, in case they wanted to evaluate the possibilities before going ahead with the RVGS. Of course that is assuming they were willing to listen, or just put fingers in their ears and went la-la-la. Ohh sure they did communicate. Yet RWB choose not to listen and did the la-la dance. What big videogame company listens to their audience which they see and treat as a bunch of know-nothing fanbois? Anyone can argue with me or not on that point. But it cannot be dismissed that they put their name on a bogus product. Did not discover truth until the community said something, and even then there was a delay. It simply demonstrates RWB lack of competence and lack of caring and arrogance. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
godslabrat Posted January 23, 2017 Share Posted January 23, 2017 Ohh sure they did communicate. Yet RWB choose not to listen and did the la-la dance. Do you have specifics, by any chance? I recall the CC announcement as coming absolutely out of nowhere, and everyone wondering how Coleco got dragged into this obviously terrible plan. It'd be fantastic to see evidence that the Coleco communities knew about the proposal before it got started, and told RWB to run far away 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keatah Posted January 23, 2017 Share Posted January 23, 2017 Just hearsay and anecdotal comments I picked up along the way. It's common sense that big companies behave this way. If I find anything 100% concrete irrefutable proof I'll be sure to post it. But no one can tell me that RiverWest wouldn't have done SOME basic checking on MK and past success/fail track record. And surely they've read through and measured the community to see if it would be a thing. And if they really didn't, they deserve every damning bit of press written. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flojomojo Posted January 23, 2017 Share Posted January 23, 2017 I don't have any proof, but judging from the FIRE-READY-AIM! way this thing was announced, I kinda doubt RWB thought this through. Otherwise, why would they consent to this backwards logic? Case first, then marketing team, then announcement, then hardware development??? I wonder how much they spent on that ugly Coleco brochure at Toy Fair 2016? Aarrghghgh! They're still using that image at http://colecotoys.com!! 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+GoldLeader Posted January 23, 2017 Share Posted January 23, 2017 Ohh sure they did communicate. Yet RWB choose not to listen and did the la-la dance. What big videogame company listens to their audience which they see and treat as a bunch of know-nothing fanbois? Anyone can argue with me or not on that point. But it cannot be dismissed that they put their name on a bogus product. Did not discover truth until the community said something, and even then there was a delay. It simply demonstrates RWB lack of competence and lack of caring and arrogance. I think a lot of these statements are easy to make in hindsight. Perhaps a lack of competence, but I'm not sure about a lack of caring or arrogance. I can imagine how things must have gone down. And this is just my imagination at work, I am Not saying I have any esoteric knowledge about this whatsoever. I bet MK talked to Coleco, then sent them some promotional materials, showing he had the molds and was doing a bunch of interviews, podcasts, videos etc., If they went to investigate him, they probably started with the fact he claimed to have a website. They visited Gamegavel and thought **Boom** he Does have a website. He claimed to have a magazine*, They saw Retro and thought **Boom** he Does have a magazine. Without those two items under his belt, he might have seemed less genuine. And it went from there... *For the record I am not talking about the quality, nor content of the magazine...Nor whether or not there was drama, and people being thrown under the bus behind the scenes...Just the fact that it exists. They would have been able to go to Barnes & Noble and buy a glossy printed mag. And putting out a magazine is likely not as easy as it sounds. My friend did a one-off magazine about local (and national) metal bands a while back, and while I was happy to get an interview and 3 reviews about bands I was in; It was an incredible amount of work. He eventually limited it to 500 copies and made it a one time deal. There was spot on the cover where it said, "Price= Your Soul". 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flojomojo Posted January 23, 2017 Share Posted January 23, 2017 If Chameleon were just RetroVGS.1, and didn't add the COLECO brand, I would never have felt the need to strike down upon thee with great vengeance and furious anger those who would attempt to poison and destroy my brothers. 6 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
carlsson Posted January 23, 2017 Share Posted January 23, 2017 Based on what I read about RWB in one of the other two Chameleon threads in the ColecoVision subcategory (*), it seems they either don't understand, or as noted don't care about the products they might license the Coleco brand to. So probably I was wrong that someone from their side might've consulted someone else about the viability of the RVGS project. (*) Those threads died off in the early spring of 2016, unlike this one that lives and thrives... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dj_convoy Posted January 23, 2017 Share Posted January 23, 2017 If Chameleon were just RetroVGS.1, and didn't add the COLECO brand, I would never have felt the need to strike down upon thee with great vengeance and furious anger those who would attempt to poison and destroy my brothers. Seriously, the COLECO rebranding polarized my distaste for this thing into laser sharp focus. Not to mention pretending that "Video-game industry pioneer COLECO re-enters the market," and "it will succeed COLECO’s successful Telstar and Colecovision product lines." Gross; and then the backlash to that backlash pissed me off even more. 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keatah Posted January 23, 2017 Share Posted January 23, 2017 It looks like they don't care about what they license. OTHERWISE THEY WOULD HAVE BEEN FOLLOWING THE "DEVELOPMENT" EVERY STEP OF THE WAY. Face it, like it or not, they let it slip through to the toy fair. Did they not? And they have that butt ugly advertisement still going? Matches the sloppiness of their webpage. What a turn off. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
godslabrat Posted January 24, 2017 Share Posted January 24, 2017 If Chameleon were just RetroVGS.1, and didn't add the COLECO brand, I would never have felt the need to strike down upon thee with great vengeance and furious anger those who would attempt to poison and destroy my brothers. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T-K8qi_AoXI If this thread were an arcade game, you would have just gotten the new high score. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andromeda Stardust Posted January 24, 2017 Share Posted January 24, 2017 Yes Coleco could have done more homework or turned him down. The first company he went to did just that. Once the Toy Fair was over the writing really was on the wall with Cokeco but they did it the right way and gave him time to disprove their fears, which of course he couldn't. Because I'm dying to know, who did he run to first? 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gentlegamer Posted January 24, 2017 Share Posted January 24, 2017 If Chameleon were just RetroVGS.1, and didn't add the COLECO brand, I would never have felt the need to strike down upon thee with great vengeance and furious anger those who would attempt to poison and destroy my brothers. Too bad MK couldn't call The Wolf to fix his problems. 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheClassyGamer Posted January 24, 2017 Share Posted January 24, 2017 The Coleco branding to me seemed kind of strange. Around my area, almost no one I would assume, and no one that I know or grew up with, has any nostalgia for the brand. Most people wouldn't know what the name was if not for those silly Cabbage Patch dolls. I don't remember ever seeing any commercial, for a Colecovision, or any merchandise in any of the stores in what was at the time here, the third largest city in the state. While I did hear of the name Colecovision once upon a time, back then It was just assumed by many of us to be another brand Atari, like the Sears system. The only thing Coleco we knew, video game related were a few Atari carts with the name on it, and then some commercials for those tiny arcade games. But those arcade games had a bad rep, as they were super prone to breakage. Everyone I ever knew who had one, theirs had broken within a year or so. They used to pop up at yard sales and such back then all the time. The name Coleco, doesn't strike any tone of ooooh... remember with me and I can't imagine it does for that many other people either. Also, I feel like what little it may have been worth, is now a lot less after this whole mess. It went from being irrelevant to being a joke, but I suppose that's better because at least people are talking about it now. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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