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lots of unfinished, awesome projects .. but why?


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Personally, once I start a project and get to the point where I get a demo going and realize it "could" be done, I lose interest. The challenge of it is the only appeal.


Finishing a project is drudgery. It takes a completely different skill set and discipline. For no money, there is little reason to do it.

Edited by R.Cade
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I was aware of the production of Outrun and the programmer got very far with setting up the screen, sprites, and animation. KJMANN12 did the music and sound. The programmer got busy with working and had problems completing the game. KJMANN12 had some health issues and could not handle the stress with dealing with people on here on AtariAge.

kjmann12 caused the stress not the other way around..... he didn't "have to deal" with anyone on Atari Age, looking back at the posts and threads... it was the good people of Atari Age's whose souls were suffering while having to put up with him,,,, everyone seems much happier without the turmoil the guy caused and continued to cause. That happened not only here but on other venues as well.... as far as the "other" programmer... well it wasn't the programmers life that got in the way... he did everything possible to make it all work... kj was a bully.... really don't want to revisit this...... I'm glad you can work so well with him.... albeit in the shadows..... It's good to know it's possible and may be good for all involved.... I steer clear of controlling glory hounds. I give all of the credit to the coders and graphists.... It's great that he can shift music into RMT and such but wanting glory for porting music over and demanding complete control over people and projects just doesn't warrant all crap you have to go thru. 'Nuff said. I really don't wanna get too pissy.

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Response to other comment.....


It was never about the pay per download thing but it sure might make a convenient excuse.....


Abrasive Control Freak with argumentative thought processes comes closer.... combined with some less than savory moves and motives. I am not sure why he keeps being brought up and inserted into things.....


Maybe he's better now, That's awesome, revision of history not so much.... Owning up to it and being different would be awesome, but it hasn't happened yet..... there is always a but involved negating any progress made.....

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Back to our regularly scheduled program! :)


emkay your music and tuning are top notch

popmilo always good discussion and nice work

jose love you graphix work

Heaven/TQA just amazing in so many areas....


I wonder what would happen if all teamed up and mad something together.... can't help but think it would be something great!

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It was not you EMKAY he had problems with. I personally liked the music you can make. It was that whole battle on the Venture thread over 'pay per download' that put some stress all of us that worked on the game.


Petey, I'm not going to reopen that whole thing but its a bit crappy that the issue being blamed on someone like me, I was the one person who asked Sal to return to the AtariAge forum when he got trouble for not sending orders out, I sat and asked him to come back and that he did and then true to form blew up a request by more than just me about a payable download only to call every one pirates and then blame me for possibly pirating a game which I had not done nor had the ability to. He then went on a meltdown and abused my daughter which in turn made me meltdown.


Now all that as far as I am concerned is old history and gone but I don't feel its fair to blame me or any one who wanted a pay download as 'causing stress to the team', Sal's mouth got him trouble and the requests were fair. Since then I've got him on ignore and hopefully he has me on it as well. As I have said to you many times as have others, you are better off without the man, I wish him well but he's an odd character that slows you down. I've nothing but praise for you and ALL our wonderful devs but lets not have an old grudge still going please.


Thank you..



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Alright than. Sorry about bringing up re-hashing an old subject. I did not specifically blame at any one person. There is plenty of blame that can go to both sides. We are no longer working with Sal.


I have not starting up any new games and working on finishing 4 different games I already have in progress. I am working on something like the Tron Light Cycle / 2600 Surround / Vic-20 Basic Slither. It will be several game types in one cartridge where you can change options to play different styles of the game. I cannot disclose all the details until the game is more complete. These things are a work in progress and need to communicate privately with other people involved.


Many people probably cannot finish up their work because they have a life beyond what is going on here in the Atari 8-bit world. Something happens with Work, Family, Relationships, Health Issues, and many things we do not go on with them beyond here.

Edited by peteym5
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Thank you Peter, its appreciated and I apologise if anything has affected your work, me and Sal simply didn't get on...


And yes, life in general affects every thing we do and at the end of it programming a game while nice is a chore amongst all of life's other chores, some mean / need attention more, whether we like it or not.


As I say to my daughter, you can only try your best...


Good luck with the games, btw I do own a real cart of Venture, posted a pic back then and a great game it is too!


Thank you...

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One issue I run into and I am sure many other programmers also is that we get halfway through programming the game and start seeing things start not working out as intended. Either run into limitations with DLI/VBI timing, memory, or the game does not play that well. The Wow factor just may not be there. Some of us intended to market our games and we may have something very little will want. I had to push several games down or off my list.


I was hesitant and questioning if I should do a port of the 2600 Laser Blast and even posted asking if anyone be interested in the game. "Laser Blast X" did get finished last spring and got released in time for Christmas Season.

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While I don't do any programming - and can only design graphics. There's always a sense of accomplishment when it comes to seeing the graphics in a game - that is completed.


I have done graphic demos in a demo format - and while it is nice to see graphic playfields scrolling - it is nicer to see it actually being in use throughout a game.


There can be no doubt - that the amount of time and effort involved - in completing the programming any game - is huge. The more ambitious the game project - that more effort (and programming skill(s) is required thereof to pull it off.

I would guess the only reason to work on such projects - would be for personal satisfaction only - because I don't think sales would make it a worthwhile reward. That they'll be lucky to get paid for their time - is my guess? For other hardware systems - the target audience would be far larger? Like a 2600 game project - or a NES? etc. And so there is more chance of it paying off financially there?


I always think it's a good idea to help those programmers who are starting in their Atari 8-bit programming along. Like with open source examples of how the graphics hardware work - and how to work around their limitations?


I can propose an open source project in which maybe - any programmer can contribute to? I can only help with the graphic design(s) - and others could help too in this area?

Maybe others can help too - in what areas they can? Like testing and what have you...


My idea (well it's hardly original) is mentioned in... the thread...

Ha ha...Never seen these anims..


That if someone starts the coding off.. and do one example .... then anyone else can make use of that code - and reuse it for other examples of that type.

Another programmer can do another type example - leaving it open for someone to reuse that code for other such examples.

Hopefully other programmers become involved eventually - in whatever capacity they can work as.. that is you have the experienced programmers doing their stuff, and the novice/intermediate programmers becoming involved also?

Of course - this project may get nowhere? It may not even get off the ground... In which case - it could be one starting example for the game maker environment... See that other thread.

Maybe not? because it may not lend itself to this particular demo project?



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One of the biggest answers to the main thread is "wrong decisions".



The A8 is almost 40 Years on the screen . Still features that could be done, were missing, and wrong goals were aimed.


POKEY has the ability of using 4 channels , to produce any "needed" wave . But there is not even put a bit into that development. Which means "real synthesis" using POKEYs generator with fast register updates....



Also: As the Atari is build to use cartridges, with "RAM available" . So why the heck do people care of 64K? That limit never existed to the 8 bit Ataris.


I'm writing that because of the latest "Rick Dangerous" informations.

It seems to be based on the Spectrum code , thus a game conversion.

The coders now try to put that game into 64K, additionally, it uses the non Atari VBXE, which costs additional development time. On the standard Atari, it uses 7 colours for the screen. No try for some enhanced colours.


It COULD have some "speech" like the original versions. Particular the Amiga version lives by that.




In the video RMT is used with some programming. A "synthesizing tool" could help to make the "samples" more clear with a lot memory saving value tables, instead of sampling data. The needed slow update for the synthesized sounds would allow to have that everywhere in every game.


enough for now....

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And, what to say? See the truth. As there is no response to the video above.


1. The FX were even better than what they used with SID

2. I'd bet, there is no response, because people heard such already ?

3. As it uses triangle/sawtooth waves to give a real voice background, I doubt that

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Nice sound.


I guess Pokey samples reference is Alley Cat imho.

The difference is the creation of that sounds. In AlleyCat, the FX were usable for that one FX.

What I'm showing is a way to have "vocal" sounds played. Particular in that demonstration, the pitch can be changed. I'm still trying some other FX.... getting closer ;)

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