Nintendo Switch

[roots.genoa]

I'll pass on Zelda though, Skyward Sword thoroughly ruined the series for me (Too bland/linear).

 

 

Well, that's a bit sad since Breath of the Wild seems to take the opposite direction in that regard...

Edited January 14, 2017 by roots.genoa

[Asaki]

Wii-U launched with 32Gb 4 years ago.

The black Deluxe model has 32GB, the white Basic model only has 8 gigs.

 

Maybe Switch will get a similar treatment?

[Andromeda Stardust]

The black Deluxe model has 32GB, the white Basic model only has 8 gigs.

 

Maybe Switch will get a similar treatment?

Wii-U had 32Gb at launch. The 8Gb models were a blunder. Also where's the SKU for a "deluxe" Switch console with 128Gb? (4x storage)

 

I'd sure as hell have paid $50 extra for a "deluxe" edition if given the opportunity. $350 create your own SKU: 128Gb and throw in 1/2/Switch or ARMS as the pack in!

[Schizophretard]

 

...and to get the full (more than two player) experience on the Switch is not going to be cheap (first party accessory prices are sky high, and that's even discounting owning another unit).

 

The way I understood the local multiplayer they were showing including 8 Switches at the same time wasn't just that you buy more accessories and Switches but your friends bring their own.

[Schizophretard]

"The Legend of Zelda: Breath of the Wild File Size Is 40% of Switch's Storage"

 

http://www.gamespot.com/articles/the-legend-of-zelda-breath-of-the-wild-file-size-i/1100-6446937/

 

That is what Game Cards are for.

[boog]

If the Switch has seamless access to a MicroSD card, adding a 128GB MicroSD would cost less than $40 and should offer plenty of space. (unless you try to go fully digital) If you can't play games/patches/DLC directly from the MicroSD for some reason then storage limitations are going to be a huge nuisance just like the Wii U.

Edited January 14, 2017 by boog

[cybercylon]

I didn't know it had a USB C port. My guess is one option is to use an external USB 3.1 drive for external storage, much like how the Wii U has the option to add a USB2 drive to expand storage.

 

Point is valid though.... a $300 dollar system with only 32 gigs of storage? What are they using... I doubt PCI-e based or some expensive option like that.

[Punisher5.0]

I didn't know it had a USB C port. My guess is one option is to use an external USB 3.1 drive for external storage, much like how the Wii U has the option to add a USB2 drive to expand storage.

 

Point is valid though.... a $300 dollar system with only 32 gigs of storage? What are they using... I doubt PCI-e based or some expensive option like that.

USB-C has the ability to tranfer GPU data so it might be possible to have a more powerful GPU in the dock. If not now then maybe in the future.

[omegadot]

The storage on my Xbox One (500GB model) doesn't really cut it by itself so while 32GB seems anemic It doesn't really create a new problem for me. Presuming I don't have to install the Nintendo games (I didn't watch the reveal yet in case that's covered) it works out about the same since I need to install Xbox One games which rapidly wipes out the 'extra' space.

 

Basically, if it's a modern console it seems like either I'll need external storage or I'll need to keep a subset of my library available at any given time.

[BillLoguidice]

The storage on my Xbox One (500GB model) doesn't really cut it by itself so while 32GB seems anemic It doesn't really create a new problem for me. Presuming I don't have to install the Nintendo games (I didn't watch the reveal yet in case that's covered) it works out about the same since I need to install Xbox One games which rapidly wipes out the 'extra' space.

 

Basically, if it's a modern console it seems like either I'll need external storage or I'll need to keep a subset of my library available at any given time.

 

32GB really is poor, but with SD card support up to 256GB, that certainly helps, although at the moment, 256GB is pretty cost prohibitive. I'm really not keen on cartridges (or optical media) these days, but if it mostly has the game self contained, I guess that's a reasonable compromise for the limited internal storage. Still, I'm now used to almost all digital across all of the current consoles (sans Wii U because of the account system) and PC, and, frankly, for a device that's meant to be fairly portable, it would seem logical to want to buy digital content. I know that's how I'd prefer to do it for the most part. Of course, if large games (a la PS4, Xbox One, and PC) are the relative exception and not the norm on the Switch, that may help some too. There will inevitably be issues, though, so hopefully at the very least they'll let us seamlessly pop in different SD cards with different installs (and the associated licenses).

 

As others have stated, though, I would definitely pay more for a core unit with bigger internal storage. Perhaps for the inevitable (assuming it's a success) Switch Pro in a few years with a slightly bigger screen and TV dock-like performance (1080p/60 max instead of 720p/30) in handheld mode.

[omegadot]

 

32GB really is poor, but with SD card support up to 256GB, that certainly helps, although at the moment, 256GB is pretty cost prohibitive. I'm really not keen on cartridges (or optical media) these days, but if it mostly has the game self contained, I guess that's a reasonable compromise for the limited internal storage. Still, I'm now used to almost all digital across all of the current consoles (sans Wii U because of the account system) and PC, and, frankly, for a device that's meant to be fairly portable, it would seem logical to want to buy digital content. I know that's how I'd prefer to do it for the most part. Of course, if large games (a la PS4, Xbox One, and PC) are the relative exception and not the norm on the Switch, that may help some too. There will inevitably be issues, though, so hopefully at the very least they'll let us seamlessly pop in different SD cards with different installs (and the associated licenses).

 

As others have stated, though, I would definitely pay more for a core unit with bigger internal storage. Perhaps for the inevitable (assuming it's a success) Switch Pro in a few years with a slightly bigger screen and TV dock-like performance (1080p/60 max instead of 720p/30) in handheld mode.

 

I certainly don't disagree with your points, you are right. I guess I just find the transition to digital collections awkward in general so that aspect ends up being a wash for me. Spinning disk and solid state storage has come down a lot but games got huge fast. I have had good experiences with my 3DS but I have a relatively small library and the games are pretty small themselves. I'm assuming the games won't be smaller than the Wii U titles and those wipe out the Pro Wii U storage rather quickly.

 

Now the account / licensing system...I'm skeptical of how they'll do there and I do care about that. Every other platform I have that aspect is nearly wonderful and at use useful.

[Keatah]

Why do games hafta be so big? I got flight simulators that take 300GB and more! So the problem is not limited to low-end consoles. Can't they use like zip or rar or something?

[Guest LiqMat]

 

32GB really is poor, but with SD card support up to 256GB, that certainly helps, although at the moment, 256GB is pretty cost prohibitive. I'm really not keen on cartridges (or optical media) these days, but if it mostly has the game self contained, I guess that's a reasonable compromise for the limited internal storage. Still, I'm now used to almost all digital across all of the current consoles (sans Wii U because of the account system) and PC, and, frankly, for a device that's meant to be fairly portable, it would seem logical to want to buy digital content. I know that's how I'd prefer to do it for the most part. Of course, if large games (a la PS4, Xbox One, and PC) are the relative exception and not the norm on the Switch, that may help some too. There will inevitably be issues, though, so hopefully at the very least they'll let us seamlessly pop in different SD cards with different installs (and the associated licenses).

 

As others have stated, though, I would definitely pay more for a core unit with bigger internal storage. Perhaps for the inevitable (assuming it's a success) Switch Pro in a few years with a slightly bigger screen and TV dock-like performance (1080p/60 max instead of 720p/30) in handheld mode.

 

The collector OCD hoarder in me likes carts to be honest with pretty boxes. I just can't help myself. So I am personally glad to see box art wont be completely dead yet. There is something soothing about staring at a hard copy. Digital only is so cold and empty. Without box art we wouldn't even know what those blobs and blocks were supposed to be on the Atari 2600 games. LOL

[Andromeda Stardust]

The storage on my Xbox One (500GB model) doesn't really cut it by itself so while 32GB seems anemic It doesn't really create a new problem for me. Presuming I don't have to install the Nintendo games (I didn't watch the reveal yet in case that's covered) it works out about the same since I need to install Xbox One games which rapidly wipes out the 'extra' space.

 

Basically, if it's a modern console it seems like either I'll need external storage or I'll need to keep a subset of my library available at any given time.

If the Switch cards are indeed flash media, not only do you not need to "install" games (flash memory is fast read and extremely low latency), but DLC / game updates could be applied to the game cards themselves. That would be a huge boon for future collectors. If update patches are installed to the game card, then suppose ten years from now the servers are shut down and you buy the game at a resale shop and it's got the latest patches and dlc on it. Inwtead of being stuck with buggy day one release, you get the full fledged polished experience.

 

@Bill Loguidice @flojomojo, I think people are doing a tremendous disservice towards the future collectability of these consoles by insisting on digital downloads as an option. I plan on supporting physical games for as long as they're available, otherwise they will disappear. I won't be able to pick up titles I missed years after the console, and new gamers won't be able to find games twenty years from now. Switch is solid state, no drives to wear out, so it should last a very long time. Maybe not 30-40 years like Nintendo and Atari due to flash retention, but people will be playing these systems for a long time if past consoles are any indication. Noone thought about future collectivity during the NES and Atari years, but I see no reason this won't be the case with modern consoles.

[Keatah]

When we played VCS and had to wait our turn, like in Video Pinball, we cruised through EGM *and* discussed the box artwork. Made up stories, fantasized how someday the graphics could look like that, tried to figure out what the people in the art were doing.. It's an integral thing and part of the experience.

 

The collector OCD hoarder in me likes carts to be honest with pretty boxes. I just can't help myself. So I am personally glad to see box art wont be completely dead yet. There is something soothing about staring at a hard copy. Digital only is so cold and empty. Without box art we wouldn't even know what those blobs and blocks were supposed to be on the Atari 2600 games. LOL

 

I mostly agree. For emulation on the PC, which is how I do +90% of classic gaming, I've had to lend some physicality to it all. Though some tricks and shenanigans. But thats topic for a different thread.

[Flojomojo]

@Bill Loguidice @flojomojo, I think people are doing a tremendous disservice towards the future collectability of these consoles by insisting on digital downloads as an option. I plan on supporting physical games for as long as they're available, otherwise they will disappear.

I'm buying this to play today, not to collect/hoard or discover 20 years from now. There are plenty of people rallying for physical boxes, and so long as there's a choice, who really cares?

 

If/when physical media disappears, it won't be because of people like Bill and me, buying new software that we enjoy, at full price, on the medium we prefer.

[Keatah]

If the Switch cards are indeed flash media, not only do you not need to "install" games (flash memory is fast read and extremely low latency), but DLC / game updates could be applied to the game cards themselves. That would be a huge boon for future collectors. If update patches are installed to the game card, then suppose ten years from now the servers are shut down and you buy the game at a resale shop and it's got the latest patches and dlc on it. Inwtead of being stuck with buggy day one release, you get the full fledged polished experience.

 

Very important for the consumer. Not so appealing to game developer and publisher. They want you to "lose" the game after x-amount of days so that you have to go buy another one or something different to take its place.

 

@Bill Loguidice @flojomojo, I think people are doing a tremendous disservice towards the future collectability of these consoles by insisting on digital downloads as an option. I plan on supporting physical games for as long as they're available, otherwise they will disappear. I won't be able to pick up titles I missed years after the console, and new gamers won't be able to find games twenty years from now. Switch is solid state, no drives to wear out, so it should last a very long time. Maybe not 30-40 years like Nintendo and Atari due to flash retention, but people will be playing these systems for a long time if past consoles are any indication.

 

While not addressed to me I'm butting in anyways.

 

Flash memory is predicted to have 10-15 years retention. I think is more variable and wider than that. Traditional QLC and TLC won't go more than a couple of years at best. Samsung V-NAND has turned that around. And IIRC they are touting 20+ years longevity.

 

It's not only that the charge dissipates in flash. But that charge leaks into the surrounding wall, and the wall get soft and squishy like wet drywall. So refreshing doesn't help. Read interference becomes too high. The controller can't tell the difference in adjacent cells after x amount of time.

 

And in MLC, TLC, QLC(and higher) the stored bits are shoveled through an A/D converter that has to differentiate between as much as 8 different voltage levels. We're essentially dealing with an analog level that slowly fades away. As long as the whole chip fades at the same time the controller can recalibrate itself and just set a new reference.

 

I've got a couple of SLC CFFA cards from the early 1990's with pics on them. Like 4MB, 8MB 64MB, and 160MB. It will be interesting to see if they make it 30 years when open up the test capsule in 2025.

 

 

[Keatah]

I'm buying this to play today, not to collect/hoard or discover 20 years from now. There are plenty of people rallying for physical boxes, and so long as there's a choice, who really cares?

 

If/when physical media disappears, it won't be because of people like Bill and me, buying new software that we enjoy, at full price, on the medium we prefer.

 

It's not necessarily the physical media, but the information it conveys, like, well box artwork.

 

When I sit somebody (new) down to play Star Raiders, I use the left screen to show the box art, the center screen for the game itself, and the right screen to display documentation - often the keyboard-command reference page. It's really a grand experience. Different from the one you might have on real hardware with real documentation and boxes scattered about the floor. But the essence and game aura are all there. Perhaps even enhanced.

 

It's like when I play X-Plane. I sometimes pull out the printed manual from 2004'ish and the brown rickety-ratbagged shipping container v5 it came in and set them aside. Nice to look at and caress. Me and the box have an understanding that goes way way back. Yup.

[BillLoguidice]

As one of the more insane videogame and computer collector's on the planet, I'm personally OK with these newer systems not being collectible in the traditional sense. I'd rather have large, mostly portable digital libraries than physical collections that take up a tremendous amount of space. It's just a different way of looking at things, a different mentality. I'm just fine with no longer owning physical books, movies, games, etc., because I don't have to think as much about finding room for everything, and it's all generally more accessible than it would have been otherwise. Of course my 15 or 20 year old self might have thought differently, but not my 44 year old self living in 2017. I love what's happened, and again, this is coming from someone with a stupid silly collection of physical items.

 

I think we also have to consider what the new generation has grown up with. I have three daughters, aged 12, 10, and 2. They have no concept of collecting and storing physical media. Times have changed, and I don't think there's any going back. And again, I'm not even sure if I'd ever want to. In my "advanced" age, I'm all about convenience and accessibility. For us old types who care, we can still hoard all kinds of stuff from our past even if we won't necessarily be able to do that with the new stuff going forward. There's enough of that to last us a lifetime.

[D.Daniels]

Well.. I pre-ordered mine from Target along with Zelda. Got the gray one.

 

I highly suspect Nintendo was playing 4D Chess when they limited prodution of the NES Classic, SPECIFICALLY to get suckers like me to rush to pre-order the switch. If so, well played Nintendo.. check and mate. You win

 

Hope you guys who ordered one don't get let down by Nintendo as this looks promising and their best console since the Snes. That Zelda game looks endless. Very tempted but will wait until we get a lower price in UK.

Edited January 15, 2017 by D.Daniels

[romeoteknik]

Digital Foundry is finding Zelda docked is running 900P/30. Looks like Nintendo fans better get used to Digital Foundry like PS4/X1 users already have.

 

 

-720p and locked 30fps in handheld mode

-900p and 30fps when docked

-Texture filtering is poor

-Frame-rate drops typically seem to happen when there's depth of field on screen

-Lowest recorded frame-rate is 20fps.

[Asaki]

I'm betting, like Twilight Princess, BotW will be largely the same game on both consoles, which is one reason why I don't need a Switch at launch.

 

Very important for the consumer. Not so appealing to game developer and publisher. They want you to "lose" the game after x-amount of days so that you have to go buy another one or something different to take its place.

On the other hand, digital means you can't buy a used copy of the game (more money to dev/pub), and it means they don't have to press discs or make carts (more money to dev/pub).

 

I prefer physical releases, but it's nice that digital gives publishers more incentive to gamble on niche titles, indie games, and localizations that otherwise wouldn't guarantee to sell well in certain regions.

Edited January 15, 2017 by Asaki

[Andromeda Stardust]

Digital Foundry is finding Zelda docked is running 900P/30. Looks like Nintendo fans better get used to Digital Foundry like PS4/X1 users already have.

 

 

-720p and locked 30fps in handheld mode

-900p and 30fps when docked

-Texture filtering is poor

-Frame-rate drops typically seem to happen when there's depth of field on screen

-Lowest recorded frame-rate is 20fps.

30fps. Really? Reggie just announced in the Treehouse that MK8 plays 1080p60 (720p60 docked). Switch is more than capable of running 60fps.

[BadPricey]

30fps. Really? Reggie just announced in the Treehouse that MK8 plays 1080p60 (720p60 docked). Switch is more than capable of running 60fps.

Here's an image of Mario Kart in undocked mode

Should be good for 30fps ?

[Schizophretard]

@Bill Loguidice @flojomojo, I think people are doing a tremendous disservice towards the future collectability of these consoles by insisting on digital downloads as an option.

 

I don't see a problem with it being an option but what the options of it are. If it is some kind of DRM always online locked down remote controlled to someday brick option then that isn't just online distribution of a game. Pure online distribution is just the game in the exact same form that it would be in a hypothetical future Switch Everdrive.