Buy a real nintendo instead...

[NE146]

 

The original 72-pin connectors are better than the too-tight aftermarket ones; you just have to know how to truly clean them (rubbing alcohol and similar solvents are not the way; they are only marginally effective). I've yet to have an original 72-pin connector from a "blinking NES" not work 100% after a proper cleaning, and I've done it with some that were so well-used that parts of the thin plastic vanes that separate the pins had long since broken off.

 

So what is that way to clean them?

[MaximRecoil]

I like how there's a well made system with a nice interface and 30 games for $60 and people are trying to compare it with STEALING the games.

 

Hey by the way what's a better deal, getting the Force Awakens on Bluray for $20 or just downloading it on my computer for free?

 

The best deal would be for Disney to give me my money back for the ticket I bought to see that poor excuse for a Star Wars movie.

 

By the way, I haven't seen anyone talking about "stealing" games in this thread. Unauthorized copying of games (and other forms of IP) isn't stealing, which is why no one has ever been arrested on a theft/larceny charge for doing so. Normally it isn't even a criminal matter, it is a civil one, but either way, it falls under copyright law, and not laws that deal with theft/larceny. The reason for this is: the thing you supposedly "stole" is still in possession of the person you supposedly "stole" it from. It would be like, if someone invented a Star Trek-style replicator, and went to their local Ford dealership, replicated one of the cars on the lot and drove the replica home. Grand theft auto? Not even close. Ford might sue for copyright infringement though; at the very least they could get you for the Ford emblem and the owner's manual in the glove compartment. There may be patent infringements involved too.

[Dashopepper]

I didn't like that crap movie either. And who cares about "stealing". Its about the absurdity of comparing buying it to buying a multicart or flashcart. But feel free to keep rambling on about the definition of stealing please...

[MaximRecoil]

 

So what is that way to clean them?

 

Remove your 72-pin connector and take it to the sink. Dip a toothbrush in a thin solution of Bar Keepers Friend powder (about $2 for a 12 oz. can at most any grocery store; 12 oz. lasts for a very long time) and water. Scrub in the grooves where the pins are, as deep as the brush bristles will go, for about a minute. Rinse thoroughly with water. Scrub again with a clean toothbrush dipped in soapy water, just to be sure you've gotten rid of all the BKF residue. Dry thoroughly with a hair dryer. It works because BKF is an actual metal cleanser, active ingredient = oxalic acid, which removes oxidation very quickly (solvents, on the other hand, do little to nothing in the way of removing oxidation).

 

Here are the results:

 

 

And as you can see from the ease with which I insert and remove the cartridges, it is the original loose connector (they are supposed to be loose, given that they were designed as a ZIF [zero insertion force] connector; they tighten when you push the cartridge tray down), not a death-grip aftermarket one.

 

I do disable the lockout chip for good measure, though I don't really need to.

 

You also want to make sure your cartridge contacts are clean as well. I use BKF/water and a Q-tip for that (I disassemble the cartridge first, and be careful to not get water on anything other than the contacts, which I dry immediately afterwards).

[NE146]

Cool man. I've heard that putting them in the dishwasher is a good idea as well.. what do you think about that? e.g. as a starter?

[keepdreamin]

False .. av to hdmi converter, unlimited games instead of only 30.

 

 

composite upscaled to HDMI looks like garbage, especially through those cheap converters. The picture is going to look nowhere near what a emulator with direct HDMI out can do.

Edited November 21, 2016 by keepdreamin

[atarian63]

 

 

composite upscaled to HDMI looks like garbage, especially through those cheap converters. The picture is going to look nowhere near what a emulator with direct HDMI out can do.

Probably, my hdmi pi emulating nes looks great in HDMI and it was $50 complete with controller, the mini though is only 30 games

[MaximRecoil]

Cool man. I've heard that putting them in the dishwasher is a good idea as well.. what do you think about that? e.g. as a starter?

 

That might work. Dishwasher detergent is pretty aggressive, though I doubt it will do much for oxidation if there is any. I don't know how well the plastic would like it either. BKF is aggressive, but only against e.g., oxidation. It doesn't harm plastic and is no more abrasive than e.g., talcum powder. It's nothing like other cleaning powders that come in similar looking cans, like Comet or Ajax, which scratch the hell out of everything.

 

I recently bought 3 original connectors from a guy who had replaced them with new aftermarket ones to fix the blinking problem (in my experience, those aftermarket ones only work on the first try maybe 80% of the time when new, and soon get worse from there on out), and all three of them worked 100% after a quick cleaning with BKF. Overall, I've done it with maybe a dozen of them (mostly for other people), and it has yet to fail. That's why I believe that the idea that the original connectors "wear out" (like it says on Wikipedia) is a myth. Well, maybe they could wear out eventually, but it would take a very, very long time. If they have been vandalized then all bets are off though. Some people think the solution is to bend the pins outward to tighten their grip on the cartridge. I consider those to be pretty much ruined.

Edited November 21, 2016 by MaximRecoil

[keepdreamin]

Cool man. I've heard that putting them in the dishwasher is a good idea as well.. what do you think about that? e.g. as a starter?

 

Dude, just buy some Deoxit. there's no need to be bathing NES parts.

[MaximRecoil]

 

Dude, just buy some Deoxit. there's no need to be bathing NES parts.

 

DeoxIT doesn't work as well as oxalic acid, especially if you don't take it apart so you can actually scrub it with a brush, though it works a lot better than solvents such as rubbing alcohol. Oxalic acid is very potent stuff; about 3,000 times stronger than acetic acid (which is the acid in vinegar). Also, DeoxIT is expensive and isn't sold in many stores, while BKF is dirt cheap and is sold in pretty much any grocery store.

Edited November 21, 2016 by MaximRecoil

[keepdreamin]

Cool man. I've heard that putting them in the dishwasher is a good idea as well.. what do you think about that? e.g. as a starter?

 

Actually, now that I think about. Skip the chemicals and just give your front loader a top loader style connector like every other cart system on the planet uses.

 

https://www.arcadeworks.net/blw

[MaximRecoil]

 

Actually, now that I think about. Skip the chemicals and just give your front loader a top loader style connector like every other cart system on the planet uses.

 

https://www.arcadeworks.net/blw

 

That product is an excellent idea; one which I've always thought would be a good idea long before anyone actually did it. However, in their first release, the card edge connector they used had a notoriously tight death grip on the cartridges, and that, combined with the way it's positioned which doesn't allow for you to get a grip on the cartridge, made the cartridges very difficult to remove. In their second version, people have reported that it has been hit or miss. Some people get ones that aren't too tight, while others still get a death grip one. It seems that whichever Chinese factory is making their card edge connectors doesn't have very good quality control.

 

If the card edge connectors were made by a reputable company such as Amp or Molex, the BLW would be perfect. No one that I know of makes an off-the-shelf 2.5mm pitch 72-pin through-hole card edge connector though. Amp makes one in the more common 2.54mm pitch, which will more or less work with NES cartridges, but isn't right, and probably wouldn't solder into the existing through-holes of a BLW.

[Newsdee]

Something like that. I understand the SNES SD flashcart has to emulate a bunch of co-processors and specialty chips.

The SD2SNES is also the only hardware inplementation of the MSU1 functionality (FMV and SD card storage). That isn't an emulator but expansion hardware.

[Newsdee]

I'm not sure how the AVS gets a pure digital signal from NES hardware, because the NES's PPU natively outputs composite video. I assume the AVS uses the same or a similar trick that the NESRGB guy came up with. He was the first one to get RGB from a NES while retaining the stock PPU rather than replacing it with a PC-10 or VS. arcade RGB PPU.

Long story short (simplifyng), the AVS guys built their own PPU which natively outputs HDMI.

[Andromeda Stardust]

I also plan to order a 150-in-1 multicart from a reputable seller here in Canada for about $30.

They are $13.98 USD shipped from AliExpress. Even with the exchange rate, you got ripped off.

https://www.aliexpress.com/store/product/Top-quality-8-bit-Game-Cartridge-150-in-1-with-game-Rockman-1-2-3-4/633347_32378116762.html

[keepdreamin]

The SD2SNES is also the only hardware inplementation of the MSU1 functionality (FMV and SD card storage). That isn't an emulator but expansion hardware.

 

 

Long story short (simplifyng), the AVS guys built their own PPU which natively outputs HDMI.

 

The SD2SNES and AVS both use a FPGA to replicate hardware. This is different than traditional emulation because it's handled at the hardware level instead of through software.

[Andromeda Stardust]

http://www.breakingburgh.com/cathode-ray-tube-tvs-make-roaring-comeback-nationwide/

 

cathode ray making comeback

I think this article was meant to be satire, based upon the comments. Be awesome if it were true, but the push to eliminate lead from tech products due to RoHS compliance, and the fact that making tubes out of a lead-free substitute like pyrex would pass harmful X-radiation from the cathode ray tube which the leaded glass effectively filters out.

 

I would love to get one of those fabled Indonesian CRTs and see how it stacks up to say American made sets. eWaste laws unfortunately prohibit the import of tube TVs. But a vinyl like comeback for tube TVs would be awesome. Until then, tube TVs will continue to be discarded until such time functional sets become valuable on the open market. Currently the supply vastly outstrips the demand such that CRTs are freely discarded curbside or in some cases paid fees for removal, ie the market sale price for a CRT actually has negative value in some municipalities, which often makes ownership of CRTs a liability rather than an asset.

[Andromeda Stardust]

 

I recently bought 3 original connectors from a guy who had replaced them with new aftermarket ones to fix the blinking problem (in my experience, those aftermarket ones only work on the first try maybe 80% of the time when new, and soon get worse from there on out), and all three of them worked 100% after a quick cleaning with BKF. Overall, I've done it with maybe a dozen of them (mostly for other people), and it has yet to fail. That's why I believe that the idea that the original connectors "wear out" (like it says on Wikipedia) is a myth. Well, maybe they could wear out eventually, but it would take a very, very long time. If they have been vandalized then all bets are off though. Some people think the solution is to bend the pins outward to tighten their grip on the cartridge. I consider those to be pretty much ruined.

The stock connector is flawed by design. They all flake and wear out, OEM or aftermarket replacement parts. Just buy a Blinking Light Win and never worry about failing connectors again...

https://www.arcadeworks.net/blw

 

 

 

Actually, now that I think about. Skip the chemicals and just give your front loader a top loader style connector like every other cart system on the planet uses.

 

https://www.arcadeworks.net/blw

^^Yes, this.

[MaximRecoil]

The stock connector is flawed by design. They all flake and wear out, OEM or aftermarket replacement parts. Just buy a Blinking Light Win and never worry about failing connectors again...

https://www.arcadeworks.net/blw

 

 

^^Yes, this.

 

Did you read my post? Here are closeup pictures of two different OEM connectors:

 

 

 

See the crud on the pins? See the broken plastic vanes? Both of them are obviously extremely well-used. The guy who removed them did so for the same reason that everyone removes them, i.e., the NES won't boot, the light blinks. A quick cleaning with BKF (along with a third one from the same guy that didn't have any broken vanes yet), and they all work like new, 100%.

 

Sure, they can wear out, when you actually wear straight through the metal pins. I don't think anyone will live long enough to do that, regardless of how much you roll your eyes.

 

Also, there are issues with the Blinking Light Win, which I described in a previous post. The OEM connector is not a flawed design aside from it being more susceptible to accumulating crud than a standard card edge connector is. That's because it is a ZIF connector (quasi-ZIF actually). With a standard card edge connector the friction from inserting the cartridge into the somewhat tight-fit pins tends to keep things clean enough to work. In a ZIF connector, that doesn't happen. But if you properly clean the connector once every few years, it will work fine. I cleaned the one in my main NES about 5 years ago and it's still working fine, though I don't use it as often as some people use theirs. I remember that when they were new in the '80s, they usually didn't start acting up until a few years later. My cousin Mike got his NES in 1986, and it start acting up (blinking) in 1989 or 1990. As late as 1992 we could still manage to get it to work if we tried enough times. We didn't know anything about cleaning them back then.

[Newsdee]

The SD2SNES and AVS both use a FPGA to replicate hardware. This is different than traditional emulation because it's handled at the hardware level instead of through software.

Yes, I'd say it is hardware re-implementation and expansion rather than emulation to avoid confusion (dictionary definition notwithstanding).

 

What is pretty exciting is that open-source versions of the AVS exist (without cartridge connectors and some advanced features), and once you have the hardware it can be used to re-implement other machines too.

Edited November 21, 2016 by Newsdee

[keepdreamin]

(dictionary definition notwithstanding).

 

[Andromeda Stardust]

Also, there are issues with the Blinking Light Win, which I described in a previous post. The OEM connector is not a flawed design aside from it being more susceptible to accumulating crud than a standard card edge connector is. That's because it is a ZIF connector (quasi-ZIF actually). With a standard card edge connector the friction from inserting the cartridge into the somewhat tight-fit pins tends to keep things clean enough to work. In a ZIF connector, that doesn't happen. But if you properly clean the connector once every few years, it will work fine. I cleaned the one in my main NES about 5 years ago and it's still working fine, though I don't use it as often as some people use theirs. I remember that when they were new in the '80s, they usually didn't start acting up until a few years later. My cousin Mike got his NES in 1986, and it start acting up (blinking) in 1989 or 1990. As late as 1992 we could still manage to get it to work if we tried enough times. We didn't know anything about cleaning them back then.

I'd rather deal with a tight grip than flakey cart loader any day. The ZIF connector on the NES was/is a flawed design, and no other consoles gave fits reading carts like the NES toaster. Atari 2600, 7800, AV Famicom, SNES, Genesis, N64, Game Boy, etc never gave me fits like an NES toaster. Rarely did a cart not boot, and when it occured, a quick rub with Q-tips + alc got it working in short order.

 

None of this blow the cart until you're blue, jiggle side to side, pull out, blow, insert, pull out, blow, insert, stick a cassette or CD jewel case above the loading tray because sometimes it only worked at half mast, then play deep into the game before corruption creeps in and it crashes or becomes unplayable... The slightest bump or tap would nuke the game because of the spring loader, yet after installing the BLW, my NES survived a four foot drop off my dresser onto carpet, while powered on, and the game did not lock or reset.

 

Well you can keep the flakey loading trays if you choose. Just like aftermarket parts can sometimes be better quality (albeit more expensive) than OEM, that is exactly the case with the BLW.

[Newsdee]

I hope my post didn't look sarcastic; people do refer to "emulation" even in hardware but it doesn't have the issues associated with the software kind.

[keepdreamin]

I hope my post didn't look sarcastic; people do refer to "emulation" even in hardware but it doesn't have the issues associated with the software kind.

 

No, no. I thought you were taking a little jab at a certain definition enthused poster.

[MaximRecoil]

I'd rather deal with a tight grip than flakey cart loader any day.

 

Except, it isn't even remotely flaky when it is clean. I've already posted a video which proves that. And the tight grip problems with the BLW go way beyond the normal tightness of a properly-manufactured standard card edge connector (which isn't particularly tight). I wouldn't even want to put one of my cartridges into an overly tight connector; it obviously isn't good for the cartridge pins. The OEM connectors on Nintendo, Atari, Sega, etc., top-loaders are all excellent, but a death grip is not excellent:

 

"Greg Beck on November 1, 2015

 

Yeah, when I got mine in the first thing I did was try to insert the included game. And damn near had to get a pair of pliers to get it back out."

 

 

 

The ZIF connector on the NES was/is a flawed design,

 

Nope; it's a ZIF connector, and not being "self-cleaning" is an inherent side-effect of a ZIF connector.

 

 

 

and no other consoles gave fits reading carts like the NES toaster. Atari 2600, 7800, AV Famicom, SNES, Genesis, N64, Game Boy, etc never gave me fits like an NES toaster. Rarely did a cart not boot, and when it occured, a quick rub with Q-tips + alc got it working in short order.

 

That's because standard card edge connectors are self-cleaning to a certain extent, which I've already explained.

 

None of this blow the cart until you're blue, jiggle side to side, pull out, blow, insert, pull out, blow, insert, stick a cassette or CD jewel case above the loading tray because sometimes it only worked at half mast, then play deep into the game before corruption creeps in and it crashes or becomes unplayable...

 

Yes. If you're unwilling or unable to clean the OEM connector once every few years, then you will have problems with it once it gets dirty.

 

 

 

The slightest bump or tap would nuke the game because of the spring loader, yet after installing the BLW, my NES survived a four foot drop off my dresser onto carpet, while powered on, and the game did not lock or reset.

 

It takes more than a "slight" bump or tap to dislodge the cartridge tray latch. If you want to rough-house with your NES, then a death-grip connector is indeed your best bet.

 

 

Well you can keep the flakey loading trays if you choose.

 

Again, it isn't flaky. I would be looking for a different solution if it were.

 

Just like aftermarket parts can sometimes be better quality (albeit more expensive) than OEM, that is exactly the case with the BLW.

 

The BLW could have been great, as I already said. I've had the same idea for ages, though in my idea I imagined a card edge connector made by Amp or Molex, not one made in some random Chinese factory. I also wouldn't have made it so there's no room to easily grab the cartridge to remove it. I've replaced the card edge connectors in some of my arcade machines, and I've always used Molex brand. They work beautifully and they don't even remotely have a death grip on the PCB pins.

Edited November 21, 2016 by MaximRecoil