New Atari Console that Ataribox?

[+Nathan Strum]

How can something that doesn't exist, fail?

 

 

Is that like, "if a tree falls in a forest and nobody is around to hear it, does it make a sound?"

[+KaeruYojimbo]

I 100% agree. I've brought that up. More communication, even if it's to say we don't have a lot to say, is better than weeks months of silence.

 

Fixed that for you. It's been nearly six months and we still don't know what this thing does.

[Rhindle the Dragon]

Is that like, "if a tree falls in a forest and nobody is around to hear it, does it make a sound?"

 

I think it's more like "Failure is better than non-existence, because at least you tried."

 

Edit:

Edited November 23, 2017 by Rhindle the Dragon

[Flojomojo]

To be fair, I sold off my 2600 stuff long ago, and really only stuck with my 8bit stuff onward. But the fair question was posted, why on earth use the 2600 version of centipede (and dude, a joystick vs trackball?? SHAME! Like Cersei Lannister shame!) I realized that Atari Games and Atari Corp split way back when, but all the IP landed with Hasbro and down the line to Atari S.A., right?

 

Do they not 'own' the arcade roms? Or did they all go off to williams/midway... uhm, Capcom? trying to remember the string of stuff there....

 

If they still own the Gauntlet franchise, I would be thrilled with another of them (the newest one was pretty good, tough definitely needed more than a single button...)

Atari CORP owns the stuff in Atari Vault. Arcade and VCS versions of Asteroids, Centipede, Missile Command, Super Breakout, and so on. The AtariBox people have that, plus their original (unlicensed) stuff on the Atari 2600/7800/5200/Lynx/Jaguar. I presume they have rights to the home computer line too, but they never talk about it. They rarely seem to do anything with platforms other than 2600 and arcade games, ostensibly because not enough people remember it. Which is probably true enough for business purposes.

 

Atari GAMES has the post-1984 arcade things, like Gauntlet, RoadBlasters, Paperboy, Marble Madness, San Francisco Rush. They were absorbed by Midway (Mortal Kombat, Spy Hunter, NBA Jam, Cruis'n USA), who also has rights to Williams games (Defender, Joust, Robotron). When you see Midway Arcade Classics/Treasures (which in turn is owned by Warner Bros), they publish this collection of stuff.

 

It's sorta confusing because of the two units named Atari. Atari CORP's Atari Lynx had some licensed ports of Atari GAMES titles like APB, STUN Runner, Hard Drivin, RoadBlasters, Paperboy.

 

Even if we pretend the Atari 2600 trackball never existed (it only played Centipede in joystick mode anyway), the arcade version is way more impressive and iconic. But that short clip wasn't a slick PR statement, it was just a hasty attempt to show us the thing wasn't an imaginary render inside a computer, but a real-life thing.

[+Nathan Strum]

Apologies in advance... this is going to be a long post.

 

I realized that Atari Games and Atari Corp split way back when, but all the IP landed with Hasbro and down the line to Atari S.A., right?

 

Do they not 'own' the arcade roms? Or did they all go off to williams/midway... uhm, Capcom? trying to remember the string of stuff there....

 

Good question.

 

Just what does Atari own?

 

Let's see... well, according to their Atari IP catalog from November 13th, 2017, they own:

 

3D Asteroids

3D Tic-Tac-Toe

A Game of Concentration

Act of War: Direct Action

Act of War: High Treason

Adventure

Adventure II

Agent X *

Airborne Ranger

Air-Sea Battle

Akka Arrh *

Alien Brigade

Alone In the Dark

Alone in the Dark: Illumination

Alpha 1 *

Anti-Aircraft *

Aquaventure

Asteroids

Asteroids Deluxe *

Asteroids On-line

Asteroids: Gunner

Asteroids: Gunner+

Atari 80 Classic Games in One!

Atari Anniversary Advance

Atari Anniversary Edition

Atari Anthology

Atari Arcade Hits: Volume 1

Atari Arcade Hits: Volume 2

Atari Baseball *

Atari Basketball *

Atari Casino

Atari Classics: Evolved

Atari Football *

Atari Greatest Hits

Atari Greatest Hits: Volume 1

Atari Greatest Hits: Volume 2

Atari Mini Golf *

Atari Outlaw

Atari Revival

Atari Soccer *

Atari Video Cube

Avalanche *

Backgammon

Barroom Baseball

Basic Programming

Basketball

Basketbrawl

Bionic Breakthrough

Black Belt

Black Jack

Black Widow *

Boogie Demo

Booty

Bowling

Boxing *

Brain Games

Breakout

Breakout *

Breakout Boost

Canyon Bomber

Casino

Castles and Catapults

Caverns of Mars

Centipede

Centipede: Infestation

Centipede: Origins

Championship Soccer

Circus Atari

Cloak & Dagger *

Cloud 9 *

Codebreaker

Combat

Cops 'N Robbers *

Countermeasure

Crash 'N Score *

Crystal Castles

Dark Chambers

Demons to Diamonds

Desert Falcon

Destroyer *

Doctor Pong "aka Puppy Pong"

Dodge ’Em

Dominos *

Double Dunk

Drag Race *

Fast Freddie *

Fatal Run

Final Legacy

Fire Truck *

Firefox *

Flag Capture

Flyball *

Food Fight (Charley Chuck's)

Football

Frisky Tom

Frog Pond

Fun With Numbers

Gerry the Germ Goes Body Poppin

Goal 4 *

Golf

Gotcha *

Gran Trak 10 *

Gran Trak 20 *

Gravitar

Hangman

Haunted House

HiWay *

Holey Moley

Home Run

Human Cannonball

Hunt & Score

I, Robot

Indy 4 *

Indy 500

Jet Fighter *

LeMans *

Liberator *

Lunar Battle *

Lunar Lander *

Major Havoc *

Maze Craze

Meebzork

Meltdown

Micro-gammon

Millipede

Mind Maze

Miniature Golf

Minimum

Missile Command

Missile Command 2 *

Missile Command 3D

Monstercise

Monte Carlo *

Motor Psycho

MotoRodeo

Night Driver

Ninja Golf

Off the Wall

Orbit *

Outlaw

Outlaw *

Peek-A-Boo

Pin Pong *

Planet Smashers

Pong *

Pong Doubles *

Pong Tournament

Pong World

Pong: The Next Level

Pool Shark *

Pridefest

Pursuit *

Quadra Pong *

Quadrun

Quantum *

Quiz Show *

Qwak! *

Radar Lock

Realsports Baseball

Realsports Basketball

Realsports Boxing

Realsports Football

Realsports Soccer

Realsports Tennis

Realsports Volleyball

Rebound *

Red Baron *

Retro Atari Classics

Return to Haunted House

Roadrunner

RollerCoaster Tycoon

Runaway *

Saboteur

Save Mary

Scrapyard Dog

Secret Quest

Sentinel

Shark Jaws *

Shooting Arcade

Sky Diver

Sky Raider *

Slot Machine

Slot Racers

Smokey Joe *

Soccer

Solar War *

Solaris

Space Duel *

Space Race *

Space War

Space War 2000

Spike *

Spitfire

Sprint *

Sprint 4 *

Sprint 8 *

Sprintmaster

Star Raiders

Star Raiders II

Star Ship

Steeplechase

Steeplechase *

Stellar Track

Stock Car *

Street Racer

Stunt Cycle *

Submarine Commander

Subs *

Super Asteroids & Missile Command

Super Baseball

Super Breakout

Super Bunny Breakout

Super Football

Superbug *

Surround

Swordquest: Earthworld

Swordquest: Fireworld

Swordquest: Waterworld

Tank *

Tank II *

Tank III *

Telepathy

Tempest

Tempest 2000

Tempest: Menace of the Arcade Dwellers - Online version

Tournament Table *

Triple Hunt *

Tubes *

Typo Attack

Ultra Tank *

Video Checkers

Video Chess

Video Olympics

Video Pinball *

Warlords

Wizard

Wolf Pack *

Xari Arena

Yar's Return

Yar's Revenge

Zulu

I don't know what the asterisks are for, nor why there are several duplicate entries.

Here it is in a handy PDF file: Atari-IP-Catalog-2017.pdf

Can't wait to play Gerry the Germ Goes Body Poppin' on my new Ataribox!

#AtariLife

[CPUWIZ]

Boogie Demo?

 

Who made that list?

[Flojomojo]

 

Caverns of Mars

I, Robot

Tempest 2000

 

Why aren't they exploiting these great games instead of re-re-re-re-releasing 1970s VCS games????

[Flojomojo]

and one more thing ... US Gamer has jumped the shark.

 

Earlier this year I made fun of the Atari Speakerhat. Now I kind of like it.

 

The speakers on the hat are also not incredibly loud, but not quiet either. Basically it's loud enough to be obnoxious on a public commute, but not loud enough to fill a whole room. I feel like wearing the hat with music on in public would be like listening to audio on your phone's speaker while on the subway, just with better audio quality.

 

[leech]

Atari CORP owns the stuff in Atari Vault. Arcade and VCS versions of Asteroids, Centipede, Missile Command, Super Breakout, and so on. The AtariBox people have that, plus their original (unlicensed) stuff on the Atari 2600/7800/5200/Lynx/Jaguar. I presume they have rights to the home computer line too, but they never talk about it. They rarely seem to do anything with platforms other than 2600 and arcade games, ostensibly because not enough people remember it. Which is probably true enough for business purposes.

 

Atari GAMES has the post-1984 arcade things, like Gauntlet, RoadBlasters, Paperboy, Marble Madness, San Francisco Rush. They were absorbed by Midway (Mortal Kombat, Spy Hunter, NBA Jam, Cruis'n USA), who also has rights to Williams games (Defender, Joust, Robotron). When you see Midway Arcade Classics/Treasures (which in turn is owned by Warner Bros), they publish this collection of stuff.

 

It's sorta confusing because of the two units named Atari. Atari CORP's Atari Lynx had some licensed ports of Atari GAMES titles like APB, STUN Runner, Hard Drivin, RoadBlasters, Paperboy.

 

Even if we pretend the Atari 2600 trackball never existed (it only played Centipede in joystick mode anyway), the arcade version is way more impressive and iconic. But that short clip wasn't a slick PR statement, it was just a hasty attempt to show us the thing wasn't an imaginary render inside a computer, but a real-life thing.

 

I was close, I knew that Midway had absorbed Williams and was fairly certain they got Atari Games. Still blows my mind that Jack didn't want the arcade division...

 

Atari Games did license a bunch of ports to Atari Corp, but they had then Tengen "front" publishing for Nintendo, etc.

 

@huge list of IP..

 

Missle Command 3D! Maybe we will finally all get to play the VR version?

[+frankodragon]

I just saw a grainy video on Twitter (of course) of a guy playing Centipede (supposedly) on an AtariBox. Several problems- No Ataribox is shown. The controller looks like it's made up.

 

 

 

 

 

I have to agree with the person's tweet as it may be someone else playing or a video.

 

 

 

[+x=usr(1536)]

I don't know what the asterisks are for, nor why there are several duplicate entries.

 

From what I can infer, the asterisks appear to indicate arcade releases. Duplicates may be explained by cases where there was both an arcade and home version of the same title.

Edited November 23, 2017 by x=usr(1536)

[The Historian]

I just saw a grainy video on Twitter (of course) of a guy playing Centipede (supposedly) on an AtariBox. Several problems- No Ataribox is shown. The controller looks like it's made up.

The original vid was posted here as an exclusive, if you want to see a better quality vid.

 

It's a working prototype and the video was to dispell the "it's rendered" comments.

 

I don't know if it working on a prototype AtariBox or not.

Edited November 23, 2017 by The Historian

[+frankodragon]

...or it could be a Natalie888 like meltdown.

Oh, dear! She'll need more pills before throwing her boxed Atari 2600 down the stairs again!

[leech]

The original vid was posted here as an exclusive, if you want to see a better quality vid.

 

It's a working prototype and the video was to dispell the "it's rendered" comments.

 

I don't know if it working on a prototype AtariBox or not.

To be fair, I could take an old original CX-40 right now and plug it into my computer, via a DB9 to USB cable and play Centipede with Stella.. on a.. *cringe* joystick.

 

Hmm, in fact instead of doing that, I think I'll fire up Mame and play the arcade version with my Steam Controller. Not sure how painful it will be, but shouldn't be too bad with the thumb touchpad.

[+Nathan Strum]

Boogie Demo?

 

Who made that list?

 

Clearly, that's something they're hanging onto for the SpeakerHat.

 

From what I can infer, the asterisks appear to indicate arcade releases. Duplicates may be explained by cases where there was both an arcade and home version of the same title.

 

Not all arcade releases have asterisks, and not all home/arcade releases have duplicates. I can't figure out any pattern to it. Probably has to something to do with copyrights or trademarks.

[+x=usr(1536)]

Atari CORP owns the stuff in Atari Vault. Arcade and VCS versions of Asteroids, Centipede, Missile Command, Super Breakout, and so on. The AtariBox people have that, plus their original (unlicensed) stuff on the Atari 2600/7800/5200/Lynx/Jaguar. I presume they have rights to the home computer line too, but they never talk about it. They rarely seem to do anything with platforms other than 2600 and arcade games, ostensibly because not enough people remember it. Which is probably true enough for business purposes.

 

You actually bring up something I've wondered about for a few years: who does have the rights to the 8-bit and ST computer lines these days?

 

The 5200 could possibly be an interesting corner case in that regard, given the number of titles that were common to both it and the 8-bit line with virtually no changes between them.

 

Thinking about it... Who owns the rights to the (mostly) pre-VCS dedicated consoles?

[+Nathan Strum]

 

You actually bring up something I've wondered about for a few years: who does have the rights to the 8-bit and ST computer lines these days?

 

The 5200 could possibly be an interesting corner case in that regard, given the number of titles that were common to both it and the 8-bit line with virtually no changes between them.

 

Thinking about it... Who owns the rights to the (mostly) pre-VCS dedicated consoles?

 

 

Atari's dedicated consoles consisted of variations on Pong, Stunt Cycle and Video Pinball. That was pretty-much it (unless you count Video Music). Those titles are covered in the IP list (if you download the PDF - the Pong entry mentions "multiple platforms").

 

As for the computers - all that really matters are the software titles. Again, those are also covered in the IP list. Star Raiders for instance, mentions the 2600, 5200 and 8-bit computers.

 

Whether or not Atari still owns the hardware designs... it doesn't say. Presumably, all of that stuff stayed with the Atari Corp. properties.

[leech]

 

You actually bring up something I've wondered about for a few years: who does have the rights to the 8-bit and ST computer lines these days?

 

The 5200 could possibly be an interesting corner case in that regard, given the number of titles that were common to both it and the 8-bit line with virtually no changes between them.

 

Thinking about it... Who owns the rights to the (mostly) pre-VCS dedicated consoles?

Like Pong and such? Good question!

 

From what I understood of it, Jack Tramiel didn't want any of the Arcade / Gaming division, and only wanted the computer side of things. So by that reasoning all of that went to Midway/Williams. Computer line from 8bit on up went to Atari Corp, which is why they did a refresh with the XE line. On that note, shouldn't the 130XE and 1040STe be the same color? Mine are off.. anyhow, off topic.

 

Atari Corp released 7800/Lynx/Jaguar, and a refresh of the 2600, so I'd guess they also owned the 5200 as well. Especially since the chips in it were in essence the 8bits anyhow. All of that went to JTS in the merger, which they then sold off all the IP to Hasbro, who released a bunch of the Jaguar stuff to the wild, and then Infogrames bought out the IP and renamed themselves Atari.

 

Wonder if Warner, and by extension Midway/Williams own the original Pong arcade license, but the console version of Pong is owned by Atari S.A.?

 

Weird thing is, I think the Amiga ownership is more complicated than the Atari one.

[leech]

 

 

Atari's dedicated consoles consisted of variations on Pong, Stunt Cycle and Video Pinball. That was pretty-much it (unless you count Video Music). Those titles are covered in the IP list (if you download the PDF - the Pong entry mentions "multiple platforms").

 

As for the computers - all that really matters are the software titles. Again, those are also covered in the IP list. Star Raiders for instance, mentions the 2600, 5200 and 8-bit computers.

 

Whether or not Atari still owns the hardware designs... it doesn't say. Presumably, all of that stuff stayed with the Atari Corp. properties.

From what I've been reading recently, a bunch of the hardware designs ended up in the hands of Engineers who took them home when they merged with JTS. Then some of those old hard drives ended up in some individual's hands and he's been releasing a bunch of prototype stuff that never saw the light of day (like the elusive Atari Panther and I think he's the same one who released some specs about the Jaguar II.)

[leech]

To be fair, I could take an old original CX-40 right now and plug it into my computer, via a DB9 to USB cable and play Centipede with Stella.. on a.. *cringe* joystick.

 

Hmm, in fact instead of doing that, I think I'll fire up Mame and play the arcade version with my Steam Controller. Not sure how painful it will be, but shouldn't be too bad with the thumb touchpad.

Quoting my own post.

 

I actually just played my best game ever on Centipede (proper arcade rom with the Steam Controller). I must admit up front, that I suck at the game. But I programmed the left touchpad/directional pad to act as a trackball with haptic feedback, and the trigger button to fire and managed to survive until the third or fourth level!

 

Controller is full of customization possibilities.

[+x=usr(1536)]

Not all arcade releases have asterisks, and not all home/arcade releases have duplicates. I can't figure out any pattern to it. Probably has to something to do with copyrights or trademarks.

 

Understood, and I caught that as well. There really doesn't seem to be a 100% discernible pattern, but the asterisks are weighted towards the arcade games.

 

I did go through the entire slide deck contained in that PDF, and amongst the things that stood out to me was that vector games were almost inevitably shown running on arcade hardware, not as home ports, with Tempest being a notable exception.

 

If this document can serve as any kind of roadmap for future Ataribox game releases (and I'm not saying that it does, but given ownership of the games' IP, it's not a stretch to say that it's likely not an unrealistic association to make), that brings up something of an interesting point: MAME would almost certainly have to be used for those games as (IIRC) it's the only currently-maintained arcade emulator capable of rendering a vector display on raster hardware. And if you're going that route for the vector games, might as well build it with MESS support and also knock out the 8-bit and ST line at the same time.

 

So, without trying to leap to conclusions but rather inferring what may be possible from the evidence presented, the Ataribox is likely to be a wrapper around a Linux distro running MAME. We could pretty much surmise that from the start, and it would make sense to take this route rather than reinventing the wheel several times over. But there's nothing really exciting about that, even if it does look nice.

[+x=usr(1536)]

 

 

Atari's dedicated consoles consisted of variations on Pong, Stunt Cycle and Video Pinball. That was pretty-much it (unless you count Video Music). Those titles are covered in the IP list (if you download the PDF - the Pong entry mentions "multiple platforms").

 

As for the computers - all that really matters are the software titles. Again, those are also covered in the IP list. Star Raiders for instance, mentions the 2600, 5200 and 8-bit computers.

 

Whether or not Atari still owns the hardware designs... it doesn't say. Presumably, all of that stuff stayed with the Atari Corp. properties.

 

Agreed that the software is the key; reproductions (as opposed to Flashback-style reinterpretations) of the 8-bit, ST, or console lines would be both ungodly involved to undertake and not likely to result in appreciable sales in relation to the development effort involved. Then again, as long as none of those devices would be required to accept a USB 3 cable, they might just pull it off

 

Having said that, given that some of the dedicated consoles were TTL devices, there is no software to work with, so the IP would be entirely hardware-related. Granted, that doesn't prohibit writing a simulation of it in software and using the original name to identify the version done in software - but if the IP rights of ownership are limited to software and identifying marks for that software, ownership of the rights to those consoles may be unclear.

Edited November 23, 2017 by x=usr(1536)

[+Nathan Strum]

From what I understood of it, Jack Tramiel didn't want any of the Arcade / Gaming division, and only wanted the computer side of things. So by that reasoning all of that went to Midway/Williams.

 

Wonder if Warner, and by extension Midway/Williams own the original Pong arcade license, but the console version of Pong is owned by Atari S.A.?

 

Nope. Pong is still Pong. It's a property - not a singular product. Atari split off the arcade division, but retained ownership of all IPs created prior to the split. So Atari Corp owned (for example) the rights to Battlezone. That meant every version of it. When they recently sold Battlezone off, they sold off the IP itself. So if Atari wants to put any version of Battlezone on any product, they have to license it from these guys now. 2600, arcade, doesn't matter. Battlezone is no longer owned by Atari at all. That's why it's no longer on the Flashback (or in their IP list). They can't make T-shirts, key-chains, or SpeakerHats with Battlezone on it now, without paying someone else.

 

From the split onwards, Atari Games owned any new IPs created by them for the arcade market. Those eventually went to Midway, now Warner. That's why I, Robot and Crystal Castles are on the IP list (two of the last pre-split Atari Inc. games), but Marble Madness, Gauntlet, 720°, Paperboy, etc., are not. Some Atari Games titles ended up on the Lynx, but those were licensed by Atari Corp. So assuming Atari SA still owns the rights to the Lynx, if they produced a Lynx collection, for example, it wouldn't have: APB, Gauntlet, Hard Drivin', Hydra, Klax, Paperboy, Rampart, RoadBlasters, S.T.U.N. Runner, Steel Talons, Xybots, etc. Not without licensing them from Warner.

 

Any games Atari Inc. licensed from other companies (either for home or arcade) aren't on that IP list either. Space Invaders, Pac-Man, Dig-Dug, Pole Position, Vanguard, Phoenix, Berzerk, Defender - the list of what Atari doesn't own that it published is actually quite huge. Similarly, you won't see Superman, Star Wars, Indiana Jones, E.T., Sesame Street, Peanuts, Disney, Muppets or any other IPs that Atari created games for on that list. Atari would have to get new licenses for those properties. Assuming they could.

[leech]

Of note: Neverwinter Nights, which was originally published by post-Infogrames Atari is now getting an "Enhanced Edition" by Beamdog who did the EE versions of Baldur's Gate. Also supposed to be released for Linux so could potentially be played on the AtariBox!

[leech]

Nope. Pong is still Pong. It's a property - not a singular product. Atari split off the arcade division, but retained ownership of all IPs created prior to the split. So Atari Corp owned (for example) the rights to Battlezone. That meant every version of it. When they recently sold Battlezone off, they sold off the IP itself. So if Atari wants to put any version of Battlezone on any product, they have to license it from these guys now. 2600, arcade, doesn't matter. Battlezone is no longer owned by Atari at all. That's why it's no longer on the Flashback (or in their IP list). They can't make T-shirts, key-chains, or SpeakerHats with Battlezone on it now, without paying someone else.

 

From the split onwards, Atari Games owned any new IPs created by them for the arcade market. Those eventually went to Midway, now Warner. That's why I, Robot and Crystal Castles are on the IP list (two of the last pre-split Atari Inc. games), but Marble Madness, Gauntlet, 720°, Paperboy, etc., are not. Some Atari Games titles ended up on the Lynx, but those were licensed by Atari Corp. So assuming Atari SA still owns the rights to the Lynx, if they produced a Lynx collection, for example, it wouldn't have: APB, Gauntlet, Hard Drivin', Hydra, Klax, Paperboy, Rampart, RoadBlasters, S.T.U.N. Runner, Steel Talons, Xybots, etc. Not without licensing them from Warner.

 

Any games Atari Inc. licensed from other companies (either for home or arcade) aren't on that IP list either. Space Invaders, Pac-Man, Dig-Dug, Pole Position, Vanguard, Phoenix, Berzerk, Defender - the list of what Atari doesn't own that it published is actually quite huge. Similarly, you won't see Superman, Star Wars, Indiana Jones, E.T., Sesame Street, Peanuts, Disney, Muppets or any other IPs that Atari created games for on that list. Atari would have to get new licenses for those properties. Assuming they could.

By the way, the new Battlezone is Amazing! Rebellion of course did Alien vs Predator on the Jaguar and the Sniper Elite games. Not sure if I have ever played a bad game by them.